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Microsoft Bans Modified Xbox 360s From Xbox Live
An anonymous reader writes "Microsoft has now officially started banning Xbox 360s that have had their DVD drive firmware modified from Live, possibly using information brought in by the Crackdown-originated Halo 3 beta downloads. Scene site forums have already collapsed under traffic, and Microsoft has officially confirmed that they are banning modded Xbox 360s to keep the online playing field fair and level."
I, for one, welcome our console-modding overlords to the PS3. Or does Sony have a similar policy? I wouldn't know; I'm perfectly happy with my PS3 and DS.
It's keeping it fair by not letting people who didn't pay for the game enjoy the service.
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What I'm saying is that unlike software (including music), you don't buy a license to use/listen to it. You buy the physical hardware and you can do whatever you want to it. Now, if you do something that is enabling you to cheat in the game (and breaking the software license), then I don't see why Microsoft shouldn't ban you and the console. However, if you mod it in a way that does not affect gameplay, why should you be banned?
--Thomas J. Owens
wouldn't it be more reasonable to assume it was from the spring dash update, because not everyone downloaded the Halo3 demo. Everyone rushed to get the dash update becasue (at the time) it was confirmed that it was working with modified firmware. simple solution, don't play backups on LIVE.
What does banning altered consoles have to do with keeping online play 'fair and level'?
I thought that copies are identical to the originals.
One might say that using a modified XBox could mean hacked console firmware to gain unfair advantages, like visual aids, gfx drivers clip hacks, aimbots, tricks with skins, etc.
Another one might say that this is FUD applied to online gaming. After all, we're talking about Microsoft.
No Thanks, Microsoft. I'll Keep My Wii
Wait.. Microsoft wants your Wii?
I don't see an problem with Microsoft banning people with DVD drives modified to play copied games. It makes it fair for the honest people who payed good money to play. If people with unmodified boxes start getting banned by mistake, then that would be something to worry about.
There's nothing wrong with anti-piracy measures so long as they're unobtrusive and don't effect people with legitimate copies.
In an ideal world people would be able to mod their DVD players to their heart's content without having to worry about things like this.
Unfortunately, we don't live in an ideal world. As a Live player who frequently encounters modders who use their modifications to gain unfair (read ridiculous) advantage over the competition. It's no fun to play the game and service you're paying for when you have opponents with auto-aiming snipers that shoot through walls. Or even if they can just fly (a far more rare and less threatening occurrence that is nonetheless not an exaggeration. As long as stuff like that exists banning modded 360's from live is a good way to protect the greatest part of your paying customer base from such behavior.
You can. They just don't want you to play online against people who have OEM consoles.
If they didn't want you to mod the box at all, they could just brick it.
// "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
It's their network, why shouldn't they ban people that don't play by their rules?
I say this as somebody that purchased a 360 less than a week ago, and loaded up the hacked firmware for my drive less than 24 hours ago.
Am I bummed? Not really. It's a private network, they can do whatever they like with it. Doing anything I want with my hardware sure as shit is my right, but I shouldn't expect other people to be forced to allow me to play on their servers like it's some base human right being violated.
One might say that using a modified XBox could mean hacked console firmware to gain unfair advantages, like visual aids, gfx drivers clip hacks, aimbots, tricks with skins, etc.
Another one might say that this is FUD applied to online gaming. After all, we're talking about Microsoft.
Yup, you nailed it. When talking about Microsoft, boring logic steps back to make way for our creative imagination!
Probably with a similar technique as some PC-based games use, e.g., replacing wall textures with transparent textures, altering colors to make characters stand out more, etc.
But this seems like it's mostly going to hurt people who pick up 360's off ebay, or second hand somewhere else. These banned boxes are going to be dumped, the people will probably rehack with a more undetectable hack, and the poor schmuck who buys their old box is going to be in for a big surprise.
Posted by yintercept - "...science...[is] the study of the 'divine creation.' "
We'll probably just see the same thing that we did with the first XBox: a modchip with an external switch connected that can tell it to disable itself and let the original drive firmware load. Of course, setting it up probably won't be as easy as it was in the XBox 1 (which had a nice little LPC port that you could get the system to load a different BIOS from by just shorting one solder point to ground)... it may be necessary to actually remove the firmware ROM chips from the drive and wire in a new switched bank with copies of both the original and the modified firmware, but it certainly seems doable.
Another issue that slightly complicates things is the fact that the 360 signs you in to XBox live by default when you have an active network connection, so modders will have to be careful to unplug their ethernet cables when the switch is turned on. One vulnerability remains, though, and that is that Microsoft may choose to push out a dashboard update which checks for the drive's original firmware on EVERY bootup, and remembers to tattle to XBox live as soon as you sign on. Microsoft could choose to store this data on the hard drive/memory card (in which case it could be defeated by having a pair of storage devices, one for modded and unmodded use), or they could put it in the 360's internal flash storage, where the dashboard and system software itself is stored (no easy solution for that one, but I don't know enough about the 360's internals to know if the internal storage is flash RAM, which makes this easy, or an EEPROM, which would seem to require that the dashboard reflash itself with the new variable set every time that happens).
Anyway, it does seem that it is possible to defeat this scheme. I'd also like to note that Microsoft's stated reason for the update is bullshit, since even with the drive's firmware flashed, the 360 will still only load Microsoft-signed executables (meaning that it can play backups of original games, but is useless for homebrew and modified games). They might as well just come out and say that it's a measure to defeat privacy, since they've locked out homebrew programs anyway (with the exception of their XNA creator's club program, which lets you run only games written for their limited API, and only in C#, instead of giving access to the full-on devkit that the pros use). Couching it in pro-gamer language about defeating cheaters is disingenuous.
Anonymous Luddite: "What do you think of the dehumanizing effects of the Internet?"
Andy Grove: "Not Much."
There is a difference between steroids (modding to cheat) and practice time.
While the end result may be the same insofar as those who have more time play better, whining about your circumstance and complaining that you can't compete is pretty pathetic.
...except that the code signing still hasn't been broken. The current "hacks" still only allow you to run unmodified executables. I suppose it could allow you to use modified data if the executable itself didn't validate the data, but there's a lot less you can do with that. Which leaves...
Another one might say that this is FUD applied to online gaming. After all, we're talking about Microsoft.There's more cheating potential by using an aimbot proxy than by using a hacked drive.
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
The only reason I pay my Xbox Live subscription is to play on a clean network with no cheating. Granted, I have seen cheating, but it is very rare compared to say... any PC game. And it is usually quickly fixed. Like the vast majority of people, I bought my Xbox 360 to play games, I did not buy it to mod it. The *most important* thing in any competitive game or sport is fairness; skill, talent, and practice should be the only deciding factors in the outcome. If you want to mod yours, fine, but I don't want to see you on Xbox Live, which is a *private* network. The reason why there is such little cheating on Xbox Live is that it is detected at the hardware level, *not* on a per game basis like in PC Games. This is why I pay, and this is why I prefer to play FPSs on Xbox Live. Sure, I would rather play with a mouse and keyboard, but fair competition is the most important thing in online play.
They were regularly banning modded XBoxes. A friend of mine bought himself a second machine for online play which would have been nice for Microsoft if it wasn't for the huge loss they were making on every console at the time.
I, for one, am disappointed with the Wii. Zelda was great, but other good games are few. What happened to Smash Bros and Metroid being launch titles? Also, whats to prevent Sony and M$ from developing similar motion sensitive controllers (Sony is sorta doing it with the six axis)? If and when they do, with their far superior hardware, it will be bye-bye Wii. I can't help but feel the Wii is gimmicky. In the long run, I think it will suffer the same fate as the GameCube- a decent system with a FEW really good games and a bunch of crap.
FOXTROT UNIFORM CHARLIE KILO
First off, everybody should have seen this coming - they did this with the first XBox console.
Second, what are the benefits (outside of copying games illegitimately and cheating) would you have by modding your XBox 360? I haven't had any incentive to purchase the 360 because outside of better graphics and new games, my old, mod'd XBox can provide me all the same functionality. At least with the first gen XBox, modding gave you DVD playback (without the need to purchase the stupid dongle), music and movie file playback (i.e. off a file server on the network), potential to install a full Linux distro like Xebian (and the potential to use it as a MythTV front-end), etc... I'm honestly curious to know how I could maximize my bang-for-my-buck by modding an XBox 360 - how else might I be able to use that hardware, similar to the old XBox?
Additionally, no matter how much they try, there will always be people bent on cheating in live. Playing Halo 2 over my friend's Live account a few times was a crumby experience for me with the abundance of cheaters out there (and no, I'm not saying that b/c I'm a sore looser, but there comes a point in time that it is horribly obvious somebody is cheating), but I'm not so optimistic this will help much. Honestly, I have never purchased a live account, and I don't ever intend to purchase one (which is part of why I won't purchase a 360 - for that and other reasons).
Personally, I like the games. I don't really have fun as a political statement.
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That it hasn't been published doesn't mean it hasn't been broken. Not all hacks are made public.
After 3 days without programming, life becomes meaningless
- The Tao of Programming
Look, man, if you want it any more fair than a level playing ground, participate in the special Olympics. Microsoft might suck, a lot, but by no means is it obligated to help everyone feel better about themselves.
At this point I think most of that kind of cheating is limited to the gifted few who are capable of knowing what to tweak themselves, but the potential is there, all it would take is someone to release a "tool" to make it easy for Joe-wannabe-hacker and you'll find yourself playing Halo 3 with someone who has infinite ammo, perfect aim, can see through walls, jump twice as high, run twice as fast, takes no damage, etc. etc. etc.
It's good that they did this, though the number of reported False Positives is appalling. I would suspect a great many of them are due to people who unknowingly purchased used or received refurbished consoles that had previously been modified... those people really don't have any proof that they didn't mod it themselves and their console might actually be modified. There are also some reports of unmodified consoles purchased on launch day (meaning there is no way they were refurbished) getting banned, though it's difficult to tell if the claims are genuine or just some pirate crying wolf.
Collector's Edition
I'm going to go out on a limb and say they only people with "Unmodded" xboxes that got banned are the ones who de-modded their xbox post-ban and are now trying to play it off as if they have no idea what happened.
I'd do the same damn thing - in fact - I'll have to do the same damn thing if I can't get my original firmware restored. That mod is entirely the only reason I even have a floppy drive any more.
Wow, this actually looks like a PRO MS thread on /. and the other day I could swear that the last one about the Iphone was kind of negative to apple.
*Does Not Compute*
*Head Explodes*
1. The 360 is popular because it's a very good product. As is. If someone from "free software land" buys it, they're presumably not buying it to install Linux and turn it into a networked bagel toaster control center.
2. Even if the 360 were highly-moddable and could easily run Linux and function as a workstation and do all kinds of unexpected and exciting things, why should we let the modded Xbox on Live? And why would the modder care at all about being banned from Live? The only modders who would care about that are "pirates" and people who cheat at games.
3. Finally, MS doesn't make much money on things 360. Not yet, anyway. And really, regardless of how I feel about MS's style of competition and no matter what I might like or dislike about them, I don't lose sleep whenever I think about them making money. It's not like they're using the money to burn down forests and put lead in grade school water supplies.
http://nerdcartoons.com/
I'm actually suprised this hasn't happened already...
You might not prefer a Wii if you owned a 50" HDTV. The difference is night-and-day. Its really too bad that Nintendo couldn't manage 720p.
The Xbox has had cheating problems in the past in online multiplayer due to modded consoles. For the most part, consoles are a closed system, so it's more invasive and risky to cheat in online multiplayer, as opposed to simply running a background app or modifying files on your PC. With the added risk of bricking the system, cheating is further discouraged.
There will also be cheating, just like there will always be theft. But if the barriers are non-trivial and carry risks, it discourages idle incursion and limits the problem to only the most determined and knowledgable hackers.
Personally, I never even owned an xbox, I've only heard reports of the cheating that went on in Halo multiplayer, and can't vouch for how much was actually going on.
> If you can't install Linux on it or otherwise do with it as you please, it's not anywhere near as useful as it should be.
I apply the same litmus test to all decisions in my life, including my choice of girlfriends and pets. That's why I masturbate a lot and have a hamster that runs Ubuntu.
As someone who has a 360 and had a silver account (the free one) then got a gold let me give you some facts:
,etc. Don't complain cause you get banned because you are no longer on the same level, doesn't matter what the "hack" is, want to play on live it costs 50 bucks a year and you can't mod your 360. Don't want to follow the rules then don't play.
1. Console updates are given to anyone.
2. You may download free stuff with either account
3. Some content (free) may first be only available to gold members then to silver.
4. You must have gold to play multiplayer.
5. You can buy extra content without having a gold membership
Look playing on xbox live has a set of rules. Like playing in the NBA, NFL, Nascar, etc
Dumb analogy complaining sports have substance abuse rules. Why not let athletes who have been loaded up on steroids compete against those who trained without them?
I highly doubt that there will be any lawsuits because of this. If someone were to bring a suit against Microsoft for banning them for having a modded console Microsoft would slap them with a DMCA circumvention suit immediately, it would work in Britain and the US for sure. As for false positives I bet that the reason they have taken a year in waiting to ban the modded consoles is that they have taken the time to test against consoles that they themselves have modded in order to be absolutely sure. I didn't hear of any first generation unmodified xboxes being banned from Live for being modded.
Last generation it was worth modding the xbox as you could then use tunneling software to play multiplayer games but I don't know if there is anything like that available for the 360 yet, which in my opinion makes modding the 360 not worth it. I think it is going to take quite a bit for me to mod my 360. Someone would have to build a Live like server to distribute updates using some sort of tunneling software and try to distribute updates that way. I think that they would still need to actually change the dashboard first, which as to my knowledge has not happened yet.
I think in reality it has more to do with piracy. Despite the protestations of "homebrew" people, it's quite obvious what most modchips are for. By denying pirates a substantial chunk of gameplay experience it may help deter a lot of piracy. I'm sure MS would actually brick modded consoles if they knew of a surefire way to do it. Instead, this is a second best option.
Did nobody else find it seemingly coincidental that the banning of modded 360s was orchestrated through a game called "Crackdown"?
It's not really that weird, it's more likely that the modding scene represents a small segment of the market. There are hundreds of thousands of X360 owners who probably don't have the first clue about how to copy X360 games, let alone what you need to buy on top (modchips, etc) to make them work.
All anti-piracy measures are an affront to our liberty, punish legitimate users, and are a waste of money that the consumer has to pay for. Did I mention the slippery slope?
You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
You're absolutely correct- if the games you play on Live were against any random player, you'd very likely be playing with someone with vastly different skills (either better or worse depending on how much time they play relative to you or other factors). That's why Microsoft implemented the "TrueSkill" system into the Live infrastructure; the games you play are usually against people of similar skill. For each game (and I believe also for each genre) you have a "trueskill" rating based on your gameplay. Matchmaking attempts to create matches between players of similar "trueskill" ratings (but it doesn't always work for low-population games or folks who haven't played a lot of games yet).
Halo has it's own similar internal matchmaking system developed by Bungie that includes the ability to match "parties" of similar skill (that's not an ability built into the standard API all developers have access to).
I agree that the Wii's game line-up is pretty weak right now, there are some good games on the horizon, but there is still a need for good third party IPs.
However, considering the sales thus far in both hardware and game attach rates, (paraphrasing VG cats and Penny Arcade) I'm sure Nintendo is just crying all the way to the bank. Lying awake at night on pillows of money.
Most technology manufacturing companies are in that same boat, it is NOT special to Microsoft
No, the PSP will brick if you have modded firmware to load your own games. I haven't heard of any lawsuit with teeth on that one... You are licensing the hardware. Whether or not you agree is not the issue -MS took the easier less painful path here and just denied people from the service vs ruining a 300.00 piece of hardware.
If you modded one, you can still revert back to the old version and get back online. They realize that the multiplayer is a big pull and so they are driving users to go at it in this manner. I like it better anyways, as it keeps the cheaters out of multiplayer. I don't like it because it prevents my fair use backup from functioning. It's a trade-off.
I think missed a word in that sentence.
The only way to prevent bios hack detection on the original Xbox was to use a modchip with a switch, and actually switch to the official BIOS when playing on Live. Also you HAD to lock your HDD if you upgraded, because it would detected the unlocked drive.
There's no reason to believe the 360 should be any different.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
A purpose-built controller meant for one game doesn't really prove your point. A lot of DDR mats were sold too, but I don't see those being used for general gameplay, either.
Developers aren't likely to support something that didn't come with the system as it limits the amount of people they can sell their game to. There's a reason why Guitar Hero came with the guitar.
Am I the only one that reads the verbose EULAs anymore? I thought that modded Xboxes of any generation were already banned from Live (I can't check the old EULA to be sure anymore beause the new one is up.) As someone previously stated, you buy the hardware and can do whatever you want with it, but Live is not hardware. (This doesn't touch on the fact that the dashboard is software that Microsoft probably claims is licensed rather than sold to you, and that they can revoke the license at any time.) I could add jet engines to my Camero, and as long as I rented a private airfield to use it I'd be fine. But my Jet-Camero wouldn't be street legal. And if it looked like Bumblebee when it turned into a robot, I'd have the MPAA, Hasbro, and Takara all after me. Wait, we were talking about Transformers, right? Anyway, you can mod all you want, but Live is the (pivately owned) public street, and mods aren't street legal.
Another good sports analogy that also covers the "I'm free to do what I want with my hardware" argument: corked bats in baseball. Sure, you're free to modify and cork your bat all you want, but that doesn't mean Major League Baseball is going to let you use it in real games.
They could just do proper multiplayer asset protection - you may note that this isn't a problem for most moddable PC games. In a decent PC game with multiplayer you'd never see totally broken assets like "cars capable of 600MPH".
As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth's final century,free flow of information is the only safeguard against...
That _is_ kind of a dumb analogy, considering "modding" your Xbox360, or in this case re-flashing the optical drive firmware gives you no advantage over "the playing field"
Its not like flashing the drive lets you run cheats or install your aimbot. The only playing field in question is shelling out $50 for the games.
Its totally understandable that they are doing this to try to ensure people only buy original games, but it has nothing to do with keeping the playing field fair.
Actually, I think the fact that people are willing to purchase a new peripheral that works on only two great games proves my point that people are willing to purchase new peripherals, if the games are there to support them, pretty darn well.
FOXTROT UNIFORM CHARLIE KILO
"That _is_ kind of a dumb analogy, considering "modding" your Xbox360, or in this case re-flashing the optical drive firmware gives you no advantage over "the playing field" Its not like flashing the drive lets you run cheats or install your aimbot. The only playing field in question is shelling out $50 for the games. "
Prove it. You can't.
Prove this hack doesn't allow any other hacks to be run. Are you 100% no hacks exist, are you sure right now a hack is being developed off the exploit. Are you sure no hack in the future will ever exist off this exploit? Of course you can't be sure.
That's why they ban any modded Xboxes. You are thinking well right this second nothing bad can be done, they are thinking ya but what about 1 second from now...1 min...1 day....1 month.
Again the rules are simple: 50 bucks a year no modded 360's. Follow them or get banned.
It doesn't have anything to do with fair play. It probably shows that they know that everyone will buy or copy Halo, but it's a game that will seemingly force people to run with legitimate machines if they want to run the popular game. I guess it was just a matter of time, considering online play will be tripled at this point. Before, it wasn't a big deal, since the majority of copied games didn't have 95% online gameplay.
I honestly think this will hinder sales a bit. Either in consoles, or Halo games.
"Please, shut up. Just when I think you can't say anything more stupid, you speak again." -Archie Bunker.
Good thing Microsoft doesn't make computers, otherwise that story would look really bad for them.
Check out my lame java blog at www.javachopshop.com
By the way, I don't even own an Xbox360, so I'm not whining Microsoft locked me out after having accepted their terms. However, I do consider that the ability to make backup copies falls under fair use of something I paid for, and which is unrelated (to anyone but Microsoft) to another service I might be purchasing from them (LIVE).
I have a 360, havent flashed it because im rather picky about my games, I do have a friend who flashed his and now we cant play anymore. He is in Florida and im in Missouri but Live is the best way we have found to stay in touch.
They may have lost sales of a game or two from him but they are now going to loose his annual live subscription and the ton of xbox points he goes through. He is the one who talked me into buying my first live arcade game (Settlers of Catan) and he seems to buy every game they put out. I talked to him this morning and he is now talking PS3, I cant help but wonder how many thousands of live users will now do the same? I dont have a problem with fighting piracy but MS may be cutting off it's nose to spite it's face.
--- This meme is memory intensive
No, those are not all facts, you can play multiplayer online, you just don't have special skill matching options, etc. http://www.xbox.com/en-US/live/memberships/
Of course not, but I have to wonder if there isn't some good money to be made in creating on-line games that minimize the advantages of the hardcore players. The casual, few-hours-per-week market is where the best return on investment is, the hardcore gamers don't pay any more money but use lots more system capacity. If someone can find a way to make sure the game is enjoyable for people who have a life, they'll do well.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
So while I agree that no matter who moded it and who owns it now, the console should be banned I think it's safe to say that keeping those moded consoles out of the hands of the innocent is very much MS's problem.
Collector's Edition
That having been said, I have no problem with MS banning modded boxes from Live. Nor do I have a problem with people who may someday be able to mod their 360 and turn it into a media center, although I'd rather just build a Myth-capable Shuttle box if I wanted to do that.
"Can't you see that everyone is buying station wagons?"
I'd be wary about bricking it. You know how good WGA worked in detecting legal and illegal versions, and we're even talking the same company here... Could be kinda expensive for MS.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Ok that was one of the funniest comments I've seen on /. ever.
We figured out a long time ago that it's easier to elect seven judges than to elect 132 legislators.
Microsoft wants your Wii?
Well, Balmer didn't look that kinky, but you know what they say about people in top management positions and their rather curious sexual preferences... Hey, to each their own, but at least do it in the bathroom when you're doing it in a hotel, please!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Instead of outright banning them why don't they send them to their own server? That way they can still keep track of who they are and perhaps not clue the modders in to the fact that MS knows that they've modded their box. MS could even run some well written bots to populate the server and totally kick the modders' asses. It could be a fun side project for the game developers (:
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
Publishing a motion controller AFTER the console is out the door is pointless.
Any kind of "specialized" controller for a console was a failure so far. The reason is simple: Lack of games. If the controller is not a definite part of the package, game studios are wary to produce for it, because to sell the game, the customer would have to buy the game AND the controller. And that in turn only pays off for the customer, if he can play more than one single game with that controller. Few games are SO awesome that they warrant paying 100 bucks and more for it (game + controller), so the customer will think twice before buying a game and look around whether there are other games supporting this controller. If there are none, your game is a brick in a display case.
And since all studios think that way and wait for the others to release games for the special controller...
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Cheaters would rather claim that they were unfairly banned than admit to their cheating. Additionally, there are tons of Nintendo/Sony zealots that will say anything to defame the consoles they don't own (not saying that there isn't 360 zealots, just that obviously they wouldn't be involved in this). There probably are a few false positives...but not nearly as many as people claim.
Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
I don't think you understand what a 'fair and level playing field' actually means. It does not mean everybody has the same skill level, it means that the system (console, games, Live...) does not provide an advantage to any player over any other player. Modifying any of those to provide an advatage which another player does not have would make for an uneven playing field. The fact that circumstances beyond Microsoft's control mean you can't practice as much as others has nothing whatsoever to do with the 'playing field'. The level of ability, skill and practice which you bring to the playing field is your problem, not Microsoft's.
Chernobyl 'not a wildlife haven' - BBC News
A modified xbox could include cheat software.
Are you implying that Ubuntu is a treadmill?
I'd switch distris.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Are you stupid? I don't know why I ask that because the answer is obvious.
Should the person who practices more be better at something? If you go out to a soccer field and play against people who play every day when you play once a month...do you expect them to all get on their knees to make up for your inability?
And quite frankly, what you say isn't even right. I work a full time job, own a house that keeps me real busy, and I can get on any fps and be at the top. I think you just suck at these types of games. Try an RPG...that way you can level up if something is too hard for you.
Disclaimer: not putting down RPGs, I play and love them. This guy should just stay away from multiplayer FPS because it actually takes some hand/eye coordination.
Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
Its not like flashing the drive lets you run cheats or install your aimbot.
:)
Actually . . .
Google "Coalesced.ini" to see how Gears of War had its ranked leaderboard hijacked by people who were enabled by flashing the drive.
Of course I am not niave enough to think that this is MS's primary motivation here
Apparently Windows wouldn't be so bad if it only ran on proprietary Microsoft hardware and would only load Microsoft-licenced applications.
Actually, that would be pretty cool. The 360 works really well for what it does. And it's good enough for Apple.
Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
LOL! A gaming luddite! Why not just go back to CGA graphics with only 4 colors?
Yes, better graphics sucks. The Atari 2600, with its innovative paddle controllers, is so superior to the PS3 with its yesterday controllers.
It makes me wonder what legal avenues MS are opening them up to if they choose to terminate access to X360's when installing a modchip is perfectly legal etc in Australia.
Sony learnt the hard way about modchips on the PS2. Legal precedent was set. Good luck getting that overturned many years on.
Sendmail is like emacs: A nice operating system, but missing an editor and a MTA.
You are close but no cigar. If you have paid for your XBox360 and have modified it there is nothing Microsoft can do to dissuade you. They aren't coming to your house demanding you return the Xbox360. You still have a modified console. But Live is their service. They can and will not let anyone with modified consoles onto their service. Both are separate. I don't see the problem with this. If you want to make backups use modified firmware. If you want to use Live make sure you don't have modified firmware loaded. All the modchip type mods I've seen allow you to return the firmware back to stock so that you can use Live whenever you want. But this way you limit the number of cheaters on the system. Really it's nothing but good.
If you want his product then it has value to you. If something has value to you then you are willing to barter for it or will take it. Your morals will dictate which path you choose. Let's look at the other side. How many subscribers would they LOSE if they allowed modified Xboxes to stay on the system? All of my friends with 360s would jump ship.
While I completely agree, hindsight is 20/20. He's now faced with either spending $499 to get back on live or spend $100 bucks more to get a ps3. What I thought was kind of funny was that he had to spend $60 on crackdown to get code that got him banned. Oh well at least im getting a game out of it, I offered to buy crackdown from him, I wasnt going to buy a game for a 2 week beta, but now I hear its actaully a decent one.
I know when the elite came out there were problems with the data transfers and live arcade. Anyone know if the stuff he downloaded would be ok on a new 360 if he just bought a core and stuck his HDD in it?
I don't have to prove anything. You hacked the 360, you broke the rules for live. You now have to prove it CAN NEVER EVER be used for an exploit. Will you guarantee that with your life?
Again to use XBoX LIVE you have to follow the rules. You break them you are gone. It's not a matter of well I only broke this one little rule...
This is in now way FUD. The Halo 2 multi-player experience was nearly destroyed by hackers who used any number of cheats. As a casual player with legal copies of games, I am thrilled that Microsoft kicks those guys off.
Presumably you're one of the rare free software folk who has no ethical problem with what Microsoft does, then?
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
Isn't that what the ranked online playing attempts to do? I've never really used it but I believe it tries to locate people of the same approximate skill level to play against. I'm sure others have more insight. I don't use it because its quicker just to jump right into a random game.
Is it possible to "Un-hack" your 360? I was considering buying a refurbished 360 and didn't know what recourse I'd have if I found myself with a hacked box.
Its their network, they can make any rule they want for you to connect. Not much to see here.
Now, if they start remotely disabling the console that you bought and paid for, then we have some news.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
First, you need to step a way from that pipe, get sober and calm down.
Second, if you actually listened to yourself, then you would realize how ridiculous your argument is. There is a clear contract when you sign up for the Xbox Live service. It says, if you mod your box, you are not eligible for the service. Case closed.
For a comparison, if you buy a car and you make a modification that is not authorized by the manufacturer, your warranty is null and void. And that is a rule that has been tested many times in the court of law.
Good luck trying to get a lawyer.
First of all, the PSP does not brick if you use modded firmware, I've played many games on mine fine. There is only risk of bricking while the firmware is being written to the PSP, obviously if there's a loss of power or something else in the middle of the procedure.
Second, no, it doesn't matter if you revert back to the original drive firmware, your XBox System ID has been banned forever. They don't check for a modded XBox each time you sign in to live and allow/deny access based on whether you're modded or not, they've been data mining information about which systems are modded for a while and now just permanently banned them.
While I agree that MS should be allowed to protect their profit margins, I have to say I disagree with your points 1 and 2.
I had the original XBOX and I modded mine because it made an awesome media centre, I could drop in a 250GB HDD and store all my media on the thing, or even hook it straight up to a network and stream the media from my PC. It turned the XBOX into what MS always wanted it to be, and did a much better job than MS have done so far with the 360.
Having said that, I also very much enjoyed playing (legit) games on my XBOX, and the one thing I lamented was not feeling I could use the Live service (okay, some chip makers claimed to allow safe Live access, I didn't think it was worth the risk). At the time, I didn't lament enough to give up my media centre solution - now I'm hooked on Live and I have to have separate online console gaming/media centre solutions vying for space in my living room. If I could chip the 360 to do what the XBOX did AND still get my online gaming fix, it would be perfect.
So, not just pirates that miss being able to chip their console and play online.
Correction: You can play MMO's, I read a little further.
Microsoft has now officially started banning Xbox 360s that have had their DVD drive firmware modified from Live
Gosh, then why are they letting people modify their firmware from Live?
Done with slashdot, done with nerds, getting a life.
>They could just do proper multiplayer asset protection -
But why should the waste time and effort in something that is forbidden by their licence anyway.
Game console is not a PC, if you modify it MS has no reason why they should allow it on the network anymore.
Although I do have to admit that I had hacked original Xbox for media player, but I also had a switch to disable the mod when playing in Live.
I pay good money for games and the live service. I don't want to lose to cheaters. They are protecting both of our interests.
Do you know something we don't? ;)
Geeks like to think that they can ignore politics, you can leave politics alone, but politics won't leave you alone.-rms
Back to the first case: aside from getting out of the suit funds sufficient to buy a new 360, what recourse does this notional plaintiff have? Would it be practical for Microsoft to set up a system where such individuals can send the offending console along with apporpirate documentation and get a new unit in exchange?
More generally, I am curious as to the false-positive rate of whatever mechanism is used to determine 'is this a modded 360?'.
- White Knight of the Order of Mihoshi Enthusiasts
>They may have lost sales of a game or two from him but they are now going to loose his annual live subscription
In other words:We should allow automobile theft because thieves buy gas too.
Not at all, as I said I agree and I buy all my games (I have 14 boxed ones and 2 live arcade titles). MS does loose money on the hardware so making them buy a new one will hurt them, and loosing live revenue for those that decide to just keep pirating and forgo live hurts them as well, so this is a gutsy move that while I think its right it could have damaging reprecutions for MS that outweight be benefits of getting rid of the pirates.
Competing with a monopoly is impossible, which is why we have antitrust laws.But it is like that. Having Microsoft (or a company like it) means that your taxes are about 10 billion dollars a year higher than they would otherwise have to be. That means that your government can either test for lead, or they can raise your taxes.
Buying a 360 makes it easier for Microsoft to continue to do that.
Presumably you're one of the rare free software folk who has no ethical problem with what Microsoft does, then?
As opposed to Sony and Nintendo who have both shown a willingness to engage in questionable behavior to suit their own ends?It's a sad reality, but if you want to play games, you have to deal with companies that are not always ethical.
It makes me wonder what legal avenues MS are opening them up to if they choose to terminate access to X360's when installing a modchip is perfectly legal etc in Australia.
Does it matter if it is perfectly legal in Australia if you are connecting to their network? Feel free to mod your 360 all you want, just don't expect Microsoft to let you play with others on their network, legality doesn't even apply.
-- toolie
2. You may download free stuff with either account
3. Some content (free) may first be only available to gold members then to silver.
4. You must have gold to play multiplayer.
5. You can buy extra content without having a gold membership The only really pertinent point is one you didn't mention - does this "banning" prevent access to the non-multiplayer functions too? If so, MS is certainly in questionable territory.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
He's now faced with either spending $499 to get back on live or spend $100 bucks more to get a ps3.
:)
What Xbox 360 SKU is $499? Do you have a link or are you just trolling? Oh, of course you're trolling because you refer to the core console that "your friend" would obviously be interested in if he's looking to get back on Live cheaply
Yes, your (friend's) content will still work on a new core console with the old HD, that how all of us who are on our 2nd(3rd, 10th, whatever) console do it, you just have to be signed in to live.
Wort Wort Wort!
So is foresight in this case. MS banned modded versions of the original xbox from live. It's not a surprise that they'd do the same with the 360.
I don't understand why anyone would cheat in the first place. What's the fun in winning a game that requires very little to no skill?
One thing about the DMCA is that Hollywood really doesn't want certain parts of it tested in court, especially the parts that ultimately result in restrictions of fair use - and there is no physical difference between a "pirated" game and a "backup" in case the 2 year old puts the original in the microwave. MS has their head so far up Hollywood's butt that they won't do anything wrt to the DMCA in court without Hollywood's blessing, and hollywood just might not bless the kind of suit you suggest for fear of MS losing it and establishing a precedent.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
*cough*guitar hero*cough*
Not that I disagree with your general sentiment, but there are exceptions.
Curiosity was framed, Ignorance killed the cat.
Yes, I did find it coincidental. But I do not think that word means what you think it means.
The fun isn't in winning. It's annoying/pissing off the people you're playing with.
P.P.S. I'm doing Science and I'm still alive.
Too bad you upset someone with it. Maybe someone with less sympathy for cheaters will mod you back up again.
You are reading a copy of my copyrighted post.
i dunno; if i were to design a game with multiplayer like this, especially with rankings, i'd make sure that the xbox logs player input. on request, the program should allow others (probably just moderators, but maybe other players too) to view the logs (you'd want to exclude non-competitive and/or personal input, like chat, when logging), and if a moderator finds that someone has either resulted in a game state that is not reachable from the input that the player did, it is obviously hacked, and one can also view what the player did to check for whether there was, say, and aimbot involved, and if so derank the player.
the privacy of one's mind is important.
you do have something to hide.
Agreed, but the point here is to have a closed system in which no one can cheat. There's always going to be security holes in games, but allowing only unmodified systems online keeps individual game developers from having to play cat and mouse with their userbase. See halo 2 for examples.
This is where it gets interesting -- the console is banned, not the account. His account is still active, and most likely set up to automatically renew year after year. Unless he calls 1-800-4-MY-XBOX and cancels his account, it will keep on renewing every year until his credit card expires. While that sounds a little nasty on Microsoft's part, it does make sense. Most people are quite attached to their Live accounts, given the popularity of achievements. Even a console modder probably wouldn't want to lose his account, so they don't ban it. That leaves you with three choices:
- Buy a new console and don't modify it.
- Buy a new console, modify it, get banned, repeat.
- Cancel your account.
The choice is up to youOh, yeah, and it's "losing", not "loosing".
however, with every new OS they make, they force people to get new, more powerful hardware
Chance favors the prepared mind...especially when you Question Authority
If you're going to use a car analogy, use a valid one. Manufacturers are required by law to honor your warranty, even with modifications, so long as the modification did not cause the problem that needs fixed. For example, installing a cat-back exhaust or a short shifter will not void warranty repair for a steering issue, just as replacing your suspension will not void warranty repair for an engine or transmission problem.
Given that, the analogy can still make sense -- a portion of your warranty will be invalidated with modifications made to your car, just as a portion of the 360 experience (Live access) will be invalidated with modifications to your console. Your car will still drive and your console will still play games.
this is true. it would be difficult and require some serious coding to implement what i suggested beyond simply allowing people to view replays. i'm trying to find a middle ground between allowing a more open system while stopping cheaters. if we only want to stop cheaters, then yes, a closed system would help. it is tougher to make a cheat that doesn't modify the system. however, there are ways to do it -- for example, bots in mmorpgs. personally, part of the blame lies in the fact that the game is so simple it's automatable, but a very creative coder could build something that simply analyzes video and controls the mouse/keyboard in the case of some simplistic games. in other games, having a calculating program gives a huge edge (i can imagine something being implemented for a game like gunbound).
essentially, in order to have a system which requires a human player, we need to check that there's a human player.
another thing which might be kind of neat would be to have multiple interfaces to a game's protocol... but i'm getting off topic and haven't thought that part out as much anyway.
the privacy of one's mind is important.
you do have something to hide.
I still read EULA's and the like from time to time. I read the note on my original Xbox that said I wasn't allowed to play my games on other peoples Xboxes. I laughed, and decided Microsoft was so out-of-its-mind restrictive in their claims about what I could and could not do that I have never read or adhered to their rules since.
This action by Microsoft isn't surprising in the least, but there are people who have a legitimate reason for modding their console. If they connect to Live right now and are banned, they are getting screwed.
Yes, you can sue the seller. But you won't have any grounds to sue MS or Xbox Live.
Why should MS refund you for doing something that they were clear on what the consequences were and you did it anyway? You modded the box out of free-will, nobody forced you to do it. Xbox Live has ALWAYS been clear about banning modded Xboxes. So why should MS eat the cost for your willful violation?
.... But the network is Microsoft's: the fanboys bought the console (which they retain ownership of, even after this change) and can do with it what they wish, however they "rent" their access to Live, and as such have an agreement by which they must abide (TOS) or risk termination of their access. Why is this concept so difficult?
I apply the same litmus test to all decisions in my life, including my choice of girlfriends and pets. That's why I masturbate a lot and have a hamster that runs Ubuntu. So what you're really saying is that you're waiting for the open sourced linux based girlfriend development kit?
As I said, there are a few killer games that were so unique and popular that the controller sold due to a single game. GH and DDR are the notable exceptions.
But how many others failed? Nintendo's first attempt at a "dance mat" for their ancient console, the lightguns for various consoles, eye toy, the list goes on. For every one successful controller gadget, there are dozens of dead weighs.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
btw the simple and somewhat cynical answer to the question above - nobody is really interested in keeping human lives long and productive. there are so many humans on the planet, that some say that there are too many.
There's this game I know that you might enjoy. It's called Pong.
- White Knight of the Order of Mihoshi Enthusiasts
The same could also be said for games in general.
Curiosity was framed, Ignorance killed the cat.
*NP*
True, but how much harder is it for a game to sell when the price tag is almost twice that of a "normal" game? It has to be an extremely good game to sell.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
And the clerks at the store should look at it and see that the seals that prevent the case from being opened have been broken and respond to you "well it probably would if you didn't open in up and break it" and then send you on your way with your broken console.
When the primary use (not only, but the vast majority) of moded equipment is to break copyrights and play game you have not obtained in a legal fashion, it is hard to say that it's unethical to stop you from continuing to use that hardware for services provided by the people that you are breaking the copyrights of and "obtaining" there software. I don't see this that different then those exploding ink capsules that banks use to protect their money. Sure they destroy the property of the people who set them off, but to set them off your first have to steal the money.
I really don't understand what is wrong with you people. Why is that in every conversation that has something to do with the PS3 or XBOX360 you have to talk about your Wii? Ahh, I was mad...but after reading what I just wrong I can't help but laugh.
Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
Uh, no. The thing is, you won't even get positive support on Slashdot of all places for this. People hate cheaters more than they hate copy protection. As far as used Xbox's go, it is buyer beware...that has nothing to do with MS. I also think the 360 might be making a small profit at this point. I don't think MS is worried about the prospect of having more units sold even if it is at a loss. It makes them a more attractive target for developers. More games means more appeal means more sales means more money for MS's money vault.
Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
In sports, it's irrelevant that it gives you no advantage - the point is, you cheated. Dale Earnhart Jr was reprimanded because his team used banned bolts on his spoiler. They probably didn't give any real advantage, but he broke the rules. It's stupid, yes (just like Stoudemire and Diaw getting suspended), but they broke the rules (and I'm not defending the Spurs by any means). Break the rules, pay the price. Simple as that. I may not agree with the rules, and I'm all for going out and getting the rules changed, but don't complain when you intentionally break the rules and get reprimanded for that.
Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine -- Robert C. Gallagher
I don't believe an EULA dispute has ever made it to court, but I may be wrong. Also, just because there's a contract doesn't mean "case closed". People with contract disputes go to court all of the time.
I don't believe the situation is a simple as you believe. From what I understand, the manufacturer must show that your modification resulted in the problem that you're trying to have fixed under warranty. For example, I just bought a used Firebird that had after-market exhaust tips installed on it. If I now have engine problems the dealer can't point at the tips and claim the engine's not covered anymore. Now, if I had screwed with the air intake or installed custom headers I'd probably be out of luck.
Here's a thought...
there are plenty of people out there who use it for it's intended purpose: to play games they paid for, and yet still have a modded xbox
uh oh, there goes your brilliant argument, and your justification for calling them losers...
Chance favors the prepared mind...especially when you Question Authority
Instead of outright banning them why don't they send them to their own server? That way they can still keep track of who they are and perhaps not clue the modders in to the fact that MS knows that they've modded their box. MS could even run some well written bots to populate the server and totally kick the modders' asses.
I think it would be great fun to allow gamers to actively develop the system. They could work to establish various limits. Work to undo other restrictions, and they could even create a market place for the best hacks.
Look what Hiro Protagonist did for sword fighting in the metaverse by removing the restriction that kept one object from passing through another object.
rse if MS is shipping out refurbished units to customers who sent their console in for repair they should ensure that they're not sending out modified consoles.
I bet there are little stickers inside the 360 that tells you if the Xbox was opened before being sent for repair. Since you have to open the 360 in order to mod it, it's pretty safe to say that Microsoft probably didn't even fix the console since the sticker protection was broken, so there's no risk of them sending a modded console to another person.
I don't think there really is an arguement, or even a discussion, about whether or not the 360's graphics are an order of magentude better than the Wii's. They simply are. I can't speak for everyone on this, but I do have a 50" Panasonic plasma and the graphics aren't the reason why I bought the Wii....
http://www.tomandemily.com
Anybody on here who disagrees with the DMCA should not agree that bricking consoles is a good thing in any way. I own my original xbox and LOVE XBMC. I have no problem, however, with the concept that you get to pick whether you want your 360 (or even the original for that matter) 'customized' or if you want to play on a fair level on MS's network.
www.tomandemily.com
http://www.tomandemily.com
Every security system invented by corporate programmers has been defeated by hackers. Latest case in point AACS, and before that CCS, WGA, not to mention modded XBOXes themselves.
Next time you are given 5 mod points, try and spend them wisely.
You know somebody's going to be playing naked just to make the random screeners uncomfortable. :P
oops "your" right its $399 for premium, sorry havent shopped for one since I picked up a platinum shortly after launch and didnt remember. $299 for core, guess thats a decent fine for his being a dumb ass...thank "you" for correcting me. "You've" gone through 2-3 consoles...how on earth did "you" manage that? I know some early ones had problems with the red ring but I figured most of those were the result of people jacking with them. I guess I just got lucky, no problems with mine and its over a year old now.
There are two stickers on the console that supposedly break when it's opened... however it's so incredibly stupid easy to remove the stickers and replace them when your done (I've seen it done with a hair dryer + razor blade + wax paper) unless they're actually checking the firmware they don't know if the console has been modified or not.
Collector's Edition
screw this thread I going to play my wii..... whoa wtf- where- note reads: "accordance with the new DMCA your wii has been confiscated signed: microsoft." DAMN YOU MICROSOFT!!!!!
my girlfriend runs linux
My point was that no other games came out to support those peripherals and no other developers incorporated those peripherals into their games. People buy them because they want to play THAT game.
It makes absolutely no difference whatsoever if people buy the add-ons if they're not supported, and developers have shown over and over that they are basically unwilling to develop for hardware that didn't come with the system. That's the real issue, and what you're missing.
last week I met my wii after work, we went to a movie and dinner. I liked the place but wii said that the chicken was a little dry and our service was slow. I took wii's wiimote in my hand and gazed at her beautiful glowing disc feeder. As I held wii I whispered gently to her "I love you wii" as she hummed sweetly in my ear. Needless to say I felt for wii what I have never felt for a console before. After a ride in the park in a horse drawn carriage I could see that wii was a bit low on batteries so we took a cab home and held each other for hours. We laughed together and told stories of your youth and family- she told me about her immigrant grandparents famicom and nes, needless to say I was impressed how far she came to be with me. Then we dimmed the lights and made love. I could feel her rumble pack tremble at my touch as I slid my hands along her sleek ivory details. the rest I can't go into, but I can say this I love my wii.
They wouldn't have a leg to stand on seeing as the T&C for XBox Live have terms specifically dealing with modded consoles which basically say if you get caught, the console is blacklisted.
Conor "You're not married,you haven't got a girlfriend and you've never seen Star Trek? Good Lord!" - Patrick Stewart
The point I am making is that just because the T&C's say something does not make it true, state and federal law can and often do supercede certain types of contractual clauses. I'm not a lawyer, but I've read enough case law where the courts have invalidated parts of contracts to know that it happens all the time. I sure wouldn't bet the farm on it being open and shut.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
I didn't hack the 360, I didn't break the rules. And I'm not disputing that you have to follow the rules or face the consequences.
What I am saying is that the idea that Microsoft is doing this out of some philanthropic desire to preserve the sanctity of online gaming is utter garbage. They're doing it to protect their revenue stream, pure and simple.
++ Say to Elrond "Hello.".
Elrond says "No.". Elrond gives you some lunch.
I don't see Sony or Nintendo making an out-and-out effort to destroy the free software community.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
Where does one find out how to mod an Xbox360?
The Elite is $479 before taxes/shipping (though he notably didn't include taxes/shipping in his PS3 estimate, so I guess you can't just tack them on here to get that magic $499)
--
WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
Well obviously this has hit quite a few fans. Some though did take the damage and are now selling "off line versions" of the xbox 360 second hand. As long as they say that you cant play on line with it! It can be a good deal!
:!
Some seem to think that they can play foul with the EEPROM to change the serial. Except..few know where the serial is hidden on an xbox360. And some are waiting for the mod scene to find a solution.
So that is what has become of it..
My point here is that though with the original xbox you really added allot of extra functions that made it a much sweeter box. And even though many lost their on line access through bans then they kept their own ones as media machines.
So what do the firmware and other mods for the xbox360 really bring in? Oh you can play "backup games"! Mmmm except that backup games is by far not the right wording. Illegal copy is more a right word.
The USA after all got DMCA right, that prohibits the cracking of security, how inept in design it might be to get to the content. And guess what on the disc stands "make no unauthorized copies"
The unmodded xbox 360 already is a media monster by using the legal tools available for it. So the mods really only allow people to use Verbatim coasters as "play discs". And the first game hacks already been shown with Gears of War!
Remember nobody pays either Microsoft or the developers of the games for the copied disc! Making a high quality game takes lots of cash and lots of time! And yes games are expensive but unlike food or clean water, you don't need games to life. If you are to poor well to bad you are to poor to buy them! Buying copies only kills the few good game studios that are left
And the "but fair use". Sorry DMCA killed Fair use! Complain to your local politician if you want that changed!
The "This will cost Microsoft allot of money" issue also is a joke! Really would anybody cry when cheap freeloaders that doesn't give the game studios their due cant use 30% of what makes the xbox360 a good console. It isn't as if you did pay money to the developers.
All in all a good clean sweep to show the real appreciation to those that try to make good value possible, sure games can be expensive but a game you bought in full is more satisfying then one you got on a verbatim DVD from your "nephew". It isn't as if you had any time to begin with to play out all the 99 games you "own"
Nothing like a cleansing storm to take away the dust and troubles isn't it? I wish all those that stayed on the legal side allot of fun with Crackdown and Halo 3 Beta! You are lucky!
Masticina Akicta,
Codefile Defected to another Hexadimal Range refresh your CHAOSTACK.NLM file with a new copy
opponents with auto-aiming snipers that shoot through walls. Or even if they can just fly (a far more rare and less threatening occurrence that is nonetheless not an exaggeration. As long as stuff like that exists banning modded 360's from live is a good way to protect the greatest part of your paying customer base from such behavior.
The only public available mod that allows you to run unsigned code, requires your 360 to be at certain kernel level. Logging into Live automatically updates your 360 kernel and burns a fuser, which prevents you from going back to the compromised kernel version. To the best of my understanding there are no mods out there which will allow you to run unsigned 360 code and connect to Live, much less allow you to run cheats or hacks.
Modding your DVD BIOS will only allow you to run copies of signed DVD games. This move is aimed at exclusively at killing piracy, not at easing hacking of from the 360.
My other OS is the MCP!
Hey man, I do that already, just to make passers-by uncomfortable.
To the GP poster who said.. "If you don't like being treated that way, don't spend your money with Microsoft." I'd suggest an alternative. "If you don't like being treated that way, DO spend your money with Microsoft". Rightly or wrongly, this is purely to stop people trying to run copied (therefore pirated in MS' eyes) discs.
Your optimism strikes me like junkmail addressed to the dead.
If you think that the only way to put clean water in Africa is to stop innovation and development of technologies in the west, then buy your Xbox.
why do people troll?
why do people read and comment on stories that they "claim" not to have any interest in?
why do people comment without reading the articles?
why do slashdotters karma-whore?
why does slashdot UID matter, when being wrong still means youre wrong?
why do companies try to get away with astroturfing?
why doesnt MS fix the red lights of death problem permanently?
why doesnt the ps3 have more games?
why does IE7 suck so horribly?
why are most wii games just collections of minigames?
how many years in a row can EA sell madden before making any major changes?
how many games does it take on xbox live to play without any profanity, lil kids or racial slurs?
why do people cheat?
these are great mysteries. if you can ever solve them, you will reach enlightenment and presumably drop dead right there on the spot.