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Spyware Maker Sues Anti-Spyware Maker

Posted by Zonk on from the oh-the-hilarity dept.

prostoalex writes "An 'online media company' Zango, which gained notoriety for redirecting adult affiliate traffic and the first ever MySpace worm, is now suing the anti-spyware vendor PC Tools, maker of an application called 'Spyware Doctor', for removing Zango applications off the consumers' PCs. 'According to a posting on a blog called Spamnotes.com, Zango is seeking at least $35 million in damages, alleging that Spyware Doctor removes Zango's software without warning users that it will be deleted. The lawsuit was filed Tuesday in King County Superior Court in Seattle, according to Spamnotes.com. Formerly known as 180solutions, Zango is trying to clean up its tarnished reputation. In November it paid $3 million to settle U.S. Federal Trade Commission charges that its software was being installed deceptively on PCs.'"

40 of 158 comments (clear)

  1. Pot Calling The Kettle Black... by Vexler · · Score: 5, Funny

    This is like Osama Bin Laden filing a federal lawsuit in Washington D.C. alleging that George W. Bush is interfering with Bin Laden's rights to advance the agenda of fundamentalist Islam and kill innocent Americans.

    1. Re:Pot Calling The Kettle Black... by Zeinfeld · · Score: 5, Funny

      "We would be interested to know what your client's attitude to damages would be if the nature of our reply were as follows : Fuck off"

      --
      Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
      Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
    2. Re:Pot Calling The Kettle Black... by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 4, Funny

      This is like Osama Bin Laden filing a federal lawsuit in Washington D.C. alleging that George W. Bush is interfering with Bin Laden's rights to advance the agenda of fundamentalist Islam and kill innocent Americans.

      Hmmm, good point. Quick! Patent that business method before Osama thinks of it!

    3. Re:Pot Calling The Kettle Black... by clyde_cadiddlehopper · · Score: 2, Funny

      No, it isn't. (dang, there goes my karma again.)

      --
      Obi-Wan: "I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were sudden
    4. Re:Pot Calling The Kettle Black... by palewook · · Score: 5, Funny

      or like punching your boss in the nose and getting fired for the punch. then suing your boss because he forced you to punch him because he was acting like a tool.

    5. Re:Pot Calling The Kettle Black... by Jerry+Beasters · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Funny how that happens, Karma goes down when you're wrong. Crazy, aint it?

    6. Re:Pot Calling The Kettle Black... by dpiven · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, that's if he filed in DC. He'd have much better chances if he filed in the Ninth Circuit.

    7. Re:Pot Calling The Kettle Black... by jb.hl.com · · Score: 4, Informative

      Reference, for the bad teeth impaired

      --
      By summer it was all gone...now shesmovedon. --
    8. Re:Pot Calling The Kettle Black... by macdaddy357 · · Score: 4, Funny

      And from beyond the grave, Hitler is bringing libel suits against anyone calling him a Nazi.

      --
      How ya like dat?
  2. M$ should buy zango for 6 billion by Werrismys · · Score: 4, Funny

    that would show google.

    --
    'Once scientists, even the dim-witted social scientists, get muzzled, the Western Civilization is finished.' - oldhack
    1. Re:M$ should buy zango for 6 billion by Ilgaz · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You could think the current situation exactly like that. There are dozens of anti spyware busting Zango but they are choosing a GOOGLE BUNDLED software to sue. Windows Defender is a hit, much more popular than Google one since it has "Microsoft" in it. I bet it doesn't suck that much and busts Zango too. Why not choose it?

      It is like historical or current imperialists not fighting eachother but making small countries fight/hate eachother for their own good.

      Lets hope Google or the small company making that software doesn't think a second about "settle".

    2. Re:M$ should buy zango for 6 billion by solar_blitz · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There are dozens of anti spyware busting Zango but they are choosing a GOOGLE BUNDLED software to sue.
      That makes perfect sense, if you think about it. Google is, after all, first and foremost in the advertising business. Zango is in this business, too, regardless of their legitimacy. Under current law, Google's bundling of software could be considered an anti-competitive act.

      But of course there are a few things to consider: first, even though Zango might be considered an advertising business, their methods of advertising are so damned unethical that they could probably be blamed for their own problems. Second, Google did not bundle anti-spyware software to attack Zango directly, so the idea of anti-competitiveness against Zango loses a bit of ground. Third and finally, the judge handling the lawsuit - especially coming from a company whose track record includes worm development - is probably going to handle Zango with extreme prejudice given their incident with the FCC.

      Now that I'm done acting all official-like... Erhem... If a company wants to fight Google in court they sure as hell can try. I doubt they'll get far, though. The majority of us love Google, and even if you hate them you'll still side with them as the lesser of two evils.
  3. Joking aside... by adona1 · · Score: 5, Funny

    I dare say there will be a fair few jokes made along the lines of "that's like Jeffrey Dahmer suing young boys for being so delectable and tasty", but I think that misses the point that this issue highlights - that all lawyers should be put in a shuttle and sent directly into the centre of the sun.

    --
    Between the falling angel and the rising ape
    1. Re:Joking aside... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      what a waste of a perfectly good shuttle.

    2. Re:Joking aside... by jhylkema · · Score: 5, Informative

      Too expensive! A more fitting punishment would be to tie all trial lawyers to trees, upsidedown, and feed them ex-lax for a week. Then they would be covered in what they try to dish out to the rest of us!

      Start with John Edwards since the only thing he ever did "for" North Carolina with his malpractice suits is raise the cost of insurance to the point that there are now 10% fewer Doctors here than 15 years ago. This is the kind of slime that wants to be President?

      Okay, I'll bite.

      We hear an awful lot about the so-called "tort crisis" and that the "courts are overrun with frivolous lawsuits." These claims are nothing more than insurance industry propaganda. It's all in the name of getting so-called tort reform passed. This, from an industry whose entire raison d'etre is not to pay.

      Those of us in the business know that, in fact, the number of lawsuits, number of trials, and sizes of jury awards have actually been going down, not up. Using your medical malpractice example, the odds against a medical malpractice plaintiff winning at trial are three-to-one at best. The simple fact is, the medical profession has done a horrible job of policing itself and is mainly interested in protecting the "doctor lifestyle." No, friend, the reason there are so many fewer doctors is principally because managed care (an oxymoron if there ever was one) is driving them out of business.

    3. Re:Joking aside... by drmike0099 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      California has had both managed care and tort reform for decades now, and there hasn't been a significant drop in the number of doctors working here, nor are doctors complaining about outrageous insurance fees. Not causative, but if managed care was doing what you say, we'd all be out of jobs by now. We certainly work for less money than in middle america, though.

      Truth is that more malpractice cases are settled out of court now than before, because the insurance companies don't want to pay whatever a jury might think is just, and no hospital wants their reputation damaged publicly. There's more of a driver for this in areas w/o tort reform because the jury awards can be so much higher and, therefore, more publicized. Insurance companies, despite very rare cases with high damage awards (most of which seem to be dropped on appeal) use that to justify charging outrageous premiums to MDs. And, if they do settle out of court, that typically means the MD forever carries that blemish on their record and has to report that case everytime they apply for a license, job, etc. The insurance companies have done a good job of passing the buck on to everyone else but them.

    4. Re:Joking aside... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      They sue real people too.

      Never sell your home to a lawyer.

      I sold my condo to a lawyer 3 years ago. In January, the condo association issued an assessment to do some repairs. Guess, what? He is suing me, saying that I "should have known" and "should have told him".

      Everything that comes out of his mouth is a lie, but he is doing most of the suit himself, costing him nothing, but it costs me an arm and a leg to defend myself. I have to pay $5/minute to respond.

      Lawsuits are just extortion.

    5. Re:Joking aside... by Nf1nk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      California has had both managed care and tort reform for decades now, and there hasn't been a significant drop in the number of doctors working here,

      You say that but, here in SLO-town I had an experience that that shows the opposite. My wife and I needed an OB-GYN and there was only one doc in town that was taking new patients. The other docs just said no, we don't have the time. We had a similar experience when we went looking for a dermatologist, most of them had two month waits just to see a doc. This isn't for one covered by a plan this is for cash on the barrel head. There may not be fewer docs in California but there are not any new docs showing up to match the increase in population.
      --
      I used to have a cool sig, back when I cared
    6. Re:Joking aside... by BCW2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you don't think frivolous lawsuits are out of control, by a lawnmower and look at the manual that comes with it. If you just take all the items about actual operation and maintenance you will have about 6 pages. The other 10 - 20 pages of safety warnings are the result of lawsuits! This was demonstrated in a mangement class in 93 by the Prof that bought one over the summer. He found one where a moron sued a mower company because they didn't specificly warn him not to pick it up while running to trim a hedge, and won!

      Need more on why Edwards is unfit? When he was elected to the Senate in 98 he never served as a true Senator, he thought he got elected Presidential candidate and missed over half the votes of his 6 year term. He will lose any election in NC, Primary or General. We know about this "champion of the poor" that lives in a 6 million dollar home with enough space in the barn (due to a remodel that is almost finished) to house a secret service detail. Overconfidant? I hope so!

      Trial lawyers are the only group that I trust less than politicians.

      --
      Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
    7. Re:Joking aside... by zippthorne · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Of course it's down. It's down because Edwards is out of that business and busy running for president. He's the classic smooth-talking lawyer of little substance that takes on big-money cases and ignores anything else, regardless of merit.

      There are probably some good lawyers in the medical field, trying to get justice for patients that have been truly wronged. Edwards wasn't one of 'em. He was the guy channeling fetal testimony for the multi-million dollar lawsuit based on crank science.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
  4. Yeah, ok. by ewhenn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How the hell can a company that bases it's business on 'sneaky' software installs complain about 'sneaky' software removal. It isn't even sneaky at that, those people put anti-spyware software on their PC to recieve a desired result. In any event, the pot can't call the kettle black.

    1. Re:Yeah, ok. by suv4x4 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      How the hell can a company that bases it's business on 'sneaky' software installs complain about 'sneaky' software removal. It isn't even sneaky at that, those people put anti-spyware software on their PC to recieve a desired result. In any event, the pot can't call the kettle black.

      You're right, the problem is, that neither lawyers, not the legal system operates on common sense. And this is tragically obvious on new matters, such as online activity (in "legal time" the Internet is quite young, lawmakers aren't unfortunately as sharp or as fast as their IT counterparts).

    2. Re:Yeah, ok. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      This is the problem with well-meaning regulations.

      Spyware was bad and evil because it installed itself without consent. No notice! No agreement!

      So, those things were made illegal--now you have to get consent to install things.

      The problem here is that consent and notice are not terribly strong protections. Hey, read that EULA! This person acknowledged and agreed to install this software. And they were notified (probably confusingly) that it was along for the ride.

      Most modern adware just barely follows the rules. Technically, they comply, but they're still mostly installed by people who don't understand what they're getting and don't want it.

      But since they're "legal," they can claim "we're not malware! We comply with all regulations. We provide a service people apparently want and consented to. It's removing us that's the violation." And, by the letter of the law, they're right.

  5. I hope Zango wins. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Zango has been providing innovative and useful software that helps users learn about quality products while simultaneously using their computer for other tasks, saving the user valuable time. It was very wrong of Spyware Doctor to not warn the user. I hope Zango wins. Anyhow, I'm off to go look for more smilies and mouse cursors to complement my Bonzai Buddy.

  6. It's like... by Mortimer82 · · Score: 2, Funny

    I know I used to force myself upon you, repeatedly, with no remorse, but I was thinking seeing as I have asked that you allow me to, and that I have changed my name now, you may voluntarily sleep with me?

    1. Re:It's like... by I+confirm+I'm+not+a · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "I know I used to force myself upon you, repeatedly, with no remorse, but I was thinking seeing as I have asked that you allow me to, and that I have changed my name now, you may voluntarily sleep with me?"

      ...and if you say no, I'll accuse you of rape. Yeah, it's sickening. Surely if I run an app that removes "software", I'm consenting to removing the software it removes? If I use, say, Spyware Doctor to remove, say, Zango, it's no different from using, say, Windows Explorer to remove, say, Firefox, surely? Should the Mozilla Foundation sue Microsoft? (It's a rhetorical question! Honest!)

      --
      This is where the serious fun begins.
  7. Wild west economics.. by suv4x4 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    For the same reason censorship and copyright enforcement is hard on the Internet, apparently killing spam, scam, phishing and spyware companies is quite much harder than their "real life" equivalents.

    (Internet spanning the whole globe, while the laws aren't, decentralization, anonymity, vague and undetermined terminology and legal status of various online activities etc.)

    You gotta know though, this is all going on because the Internet is so young. If the beaurocrats in the various countries get their act together, in 30-40 years such abnormalities as a spyware distirbutor suing antispyware distributor will be for all practical purposes, impossible. But it will also mean we may need to fill a bunch of forms and go through a series of expensive tests before publishing software and sites on the Internet.

    The signs of this are already coming from Microsoft where you need to signs your exe files for "authenticity", and "comspulsory" game rating requirement of Vista, and the more expensive "trustworthy" certificates initiative that the major browser makers are engaged into.

    1. Re:Wild west economics.. by suv4x4 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Not happening. You can take control over what I can and cannot do on my machine over my dead body. It's not worth ending spam to end free speech and free software as well.

      It'll not end anything, but raise the barrier. Always happens dude.

  8. Ummmm by phoenixwade · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I hate to mention this, but isn't there a provision of the DMCA that they can claim that removal tools violates? Circumvention or some such?

    I'm not even remotely suggesting that I agree with the lawsuit, and I fervently hope they get countersued out of business. But I am suggesting that it's possible they have a real claim under the screwed up IP laws in this country. I wonder if this isn't one of those lawsuits that may ultimately end up with a desperately needed revision of those laws. It's really too much to hope for, I suppose.

    (Although, on a side note, a little bit of me notes that they don't make unix os type products. Thus they do, sort of left handedly, support OS's I'm fond of.)

    --
    A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
  9. Zango trying to build a reputation? by Stevecrox · · Score: 5, Informative

    Recently I has the misfortune to come accross Zango (was looking for a video codec) I'm running a Vista PC so Zango refused to install and yet windows defender still picked up the three applications it installed on my system. These three programs were left on ther system after Zango had informed me it can't install. Spybot identified two of the applications as Adware and the final as Malware.

    When your programs isntallation puts three unwanted applications on a PC even when it fails to install causing a owner to install a Anti-virus package because their concerned with what else it might have put on there then your company doesn't have a reputation worth anything and if Spybot, Microsoft and every AV/Anti-Spyware company wants to black list you power to them.

    Oh this was yesterday afternoon and while I don't keep A/V software running I'm very pro firewalls

  10. Shenanigans by rgaginol · · Score: 2, Funny

    I hereby declare Shenanigans on Zango - SHENANIGANS!!!

  11. ROFL by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 4, Insightful

    alleging that Spyware Doctor removes Zango's software without warning users that it will be deleted.

    What about Zango's spyware installing itself WITHOUT WARNING USERS that it will be installed?

    Truth is stranger than fiction, that's for sure.

    1. Re:ROFL by jamstar7 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Truth is stranger than fiction, that's for sure.

      And some of us are stranger than truth.

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    2. Re:ROFL by TehZorroness · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The hunter becomes the hunted. Companies like this are like a cancer driven by deception and immoral practices. Perhaps my opinions would be different if any of their products served the world any use, but with the questionable marketing they push upon innocent people, I am glad to see them taking damages, and I can only pray that they will not be reimbursed the money they would not have rightfully made.

  12. Re:Zango a spyware company? by ChameleonDave · · Score: 5, Informative

    ...Zango is in [the] right, and Spyware Doctor should at least [give] notice [of] what it is doing to its users.

    Spyware Doctor does give notice of what it does: it removes software that its developers judge to be spyware. If the user opines that the tool comes up with too many false positives, then they may uninstall it at any time and use any of several other tools out there.

    If you believe that there has been a false positive here, then write to the developers to suggest they change it. But don't support frivolous lawsuits.

  13. Isn't spyware a subcategory of trojans? by Qbertino · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What really has me wondering is this: Isn't spyware a subcategory of trojans and isn't distributing those effectively called hacking? I.e. illegal break and entry into a computer system or whatever it's called in US legal terms? I'm suprised a 'spyware company' would step so far out into the open let alone attract attention by sueing people/companies. What is stopping Homeland Security or any other of the new nazi-style US agencies (pardon the polemics) from raiding their offices and imprisoning everybody in site without trial for 'enemy combatant terrorist activities' or something.? I'd actually try to get something like that rolling if I lived in the US and some spyware company woukld start sueing me.
    They sure have some guts.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
  14. List = {Null}? by AndroidCat · · Score: 2, Funny

    Can Zango provide a verifiable list of their "customers" who are actually complaining that it was removed?

    --
    One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
  15. One thing I don't understand... by spywhere · · Score: 3, Informative

    [just kidding]
    Zango has infested millions of PCs and caused tens of millions of dollars worth of damages...
    Zango is an actual company that has offices here in the USA...
    Zango's offices are presumably flammable...
    Why is Zango still causing problems?
    [/just kidding]

  16. Now we have discovery by Animats · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Big mistake on Zango's part. Now comes discovery, a searching examination of Zango's business practices to answer the relevant question "Is Zango evil"?

  17. Yes, get rid of all the lawyers by Infonaut · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think that misses the point that this issue highlights - that all lawyers should be put in a shuttle and sent directly into the centre of the sun.

    Because of course, the actual companies involved had nothing to do with filing the lawsuits. Everyone knows that without lawyers, there would be no conflict between individuals or between companies.

    Also, lawyers have never done anything useful. If they hadn't gotten involved, we'd still be able to keep minorities from voting, and companies would be able to pollute with abandon. I long for the good old days, when all disputes were settled with spears and clubs.

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