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How Classsmate PC Stacks Up Against OLPC
lisah writes "While the One Laptop Per Child project pulled itself together and shipped its first Beta machines, Intel was busy developing its own version, the Classmate PC. Inevitable comparisons will be made between the two (especially since OLPC's chairman Nicholas Negroponte called Intel's move "predatory"), so Linux.com's Tina Gasperson and her kids took a Classmate PC for a test run to see how it does in the real world. The upshot? Good battery life, easy to use, and great with ketchup. 'The Classmate is so adorably cozy it make you want to snuggle up on a comfy couch or lean back on some pillows on the floor while you surf. Good thing wireless is built right in. Too bad the typical Linux foibles apply. The first snag was having to log in as root to check the system configuration because the Classmate wouldn't log on to the network. Something tells me most elementary and high school teachers with nothing but Windows experience aren't going to get that.'" Linux.com and Slashdot are both owned by OSTG.
...the extra "s" is for extra class!
Below is the comment I posted under the story on linux.com. For those too lazy to read it there:
Five days with three active kids? The fact that you believe that this utterly minor quantity of abuse is significant displays an utter ignorance of the situation in which the systems will be used. And two hours? After which point it must be plugged in? Kids in many if not most of the locations in which the systems will be used will not have access to an electrical outlet. I know this concept is amazing to someone who has never thought about life beyond the borders of the first world...
The ClassmatePC is utterly unsuited to use anywhere outside the rosy, warm and comfortable existence that we in the first world enjoy. I'm sure it makes a very nice toy for your children, however. Be sure to get back to us regarding its durability after they've drug that gigantic (for children) lug of a machine through the dirt on their miles-long walk to and from school every day, mm?
(You can see that I am just as charming in other parts of the web as I am here)
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Since USB ports haven't apparently been discovered by the general public, what's the chance that "root passwords" and wi-fi configuration have?
If they feel good competing AGAINST a charity. It's like trying to run the red cross out of town because you want your own select staff of employees to profit from the same line of work.
Why didn't Intel work *with* OLPC to make a laptop to help educate people? Now all they're serving to do is divide the market and confuse customers [re: governments] with a laptop which imho is less suited for the task.
It isn't like OLPC *has* to run a geode. I mean at this point a rework is out of the question, but they could have switched it to an intel chip a couple of years ago if a low power chip was suitable for the task.
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
Well if you cant use Windows, and you cant, you have to learn linux sometime. Might as well be young when they dont even know windows. Only admins will have issues like this anyways. Are not most of the kids that are going to be using these computers kids that have never used a computer before and therefore, Windows? Even if they did, they are young and will be much more open to changing as their ties to Windows could only be so strong at that age.
Invexi - a Phoenix, AZ based web design and web development company.
"The ClassmatePC is utterly unsuited to use anywhere outside the rosy, warm and comfortable existence that we in the first world enjoy. I'm sure it makes a very nice toy for your children, however. Be sure to get back to us regarding its durability after they've drug that gigantic (for children) lug of a machine through the dirt on their miles-long walk to and from school every day, mm?"
Do third-world children really abuse what they own like that? Or is that the way a first world child would?
It's be pretty sad if there wasn't *some* advantage to the Classmate given the cost, but since low price was the whole point of these machines, any advantage is rather moot.
I learnt to program back in 1978 on a 1MHz Z80 with 1K of RAM and no software other than a monitor program that let me type hex codes into memory. I turned out OK.
If the point of this is to get computers into as many kids hands as possible, where cost was previously a limit, then cost should in essence be the only consideration once any other minimal design goals have been met. Putting in more features (able to run expensive Microsoft bloatware!) for a higher cost would seem to be a detriment to the overall goal rather than a benefit.
The better value-for-money laptop should win. OLPC may be taking too long to get into production.
The OLPC project was to provide educational resources to developing countries, centered around low-cost, reliable computing hardware adapted to the needs of education in the developing world and services and open content for that platform.
Yeah, yeah, the interesting part to first-world geeks seems to be primarily the hardware platform. But that's not what OLPC is about.
The ClassmatePC, while it is introduced to as a competitor to the OLPC hardware, is not part of Intel competing to provide what OLPC is trying to provide.
Hell I bet in a few years you will see them in casual pictures along the roadsides in ditches and the people who get them find out they have very little to do with improving their lives.
OLPC and this are feel good ideas when too much of this world does have clean drinking water and adequate medicine or food for the day.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Don't flame me I know little about either.. Would it be fair that children in the ghettos would similarly treat their new laptops the same as kids in the third world? Has any kind of user testing been done to show what these kids would really get from it. IMHO computers in the classroom is highly overrated. From my observation kids end up using the computers to waste time, surf web, play games. Not that there isn't learning going on. But more often detracts from the lesson that is being taught.
You need to read the bitfrost spec. "root" isn't a viable security mechanism for modern computing, much as you like it. It doesn't distribute, and doesn't offer the multiple levels of security that are required in the OLPC types of deployment. There likely isn't an expert around who can "root" around problems. Instead, OLPC has a well-defined security model that makes sense for its deployment environment.
There are a bunch of false assumptions with this review, not to mention Intel _must_ have put in quite a PR effort to get this story published.
1. The family "just using it."
I think there are enough admins here who understand that the OLPC will probably be delivered pre-configured.
2. So, wireless, much less a steady _Internet connection_ is widely available in developing nations?
The OLPC is getting destroyed quite publicly and there's nothing OLPC can do about it. They've been out-financed.
Today's lesson: Selling to governments without 10's of millions of dollars for bribes of all kinds (including campaign donations)doesn't happen. This is a text book case of what happens to anything innovative (read: new vendors) in government.
Got Trader Joe's? friendwich.com RSS feeds work now!
Maybe I'm wrong... Just saw the screen captures and that's what it looked like.
Anyway, it would seem smart for Microsoft to bundle in a 'gimped' version of Windows because of their already wide adoption, helping the third world and poor countries get a leg up into becoming Windows developers only helps them in the long term.
I guess the next generation of kids will just be Linux gurus and facilitate our whole moves into Linux for the home and enterprise. Time will tell, but the OLPC project is something that is going to get a LOT of kids excited about being "into computers". I would think that Microsoft would be following suit. Giving away their OS isn't that big a deal since everybody in the third world pirates it anyway.
The price is always right if someone else is paying.
that is incorrect. Please refer to http://www.classmatepc.com/classmatepc-system-soft ware.html
If Intel strong-arms the OLPC project into oblivion but continues to provide the same "philanthropic", so to speak, service, don't the children still benefit?
While I agree that we shouldn't feel OLPC needs to be the only platform available to these people, I think your question indicates the source of people's concern: What if Intel strong-arms the OLPC project into oblivion but then does not continue to provide the same philanthropic service?
Yep. Intel really has it right and proves Negroponte is an idiot.
Like I said in a comment above, I can see how this might be a better option for more developed countries (US, large cities, etc) where things like power aren't as big a problem. But like I said the other day, the more I see of this, the more it looks like a status-quo laptop that was made 20% (or whatever) smaller.
Not only is the OLPC hardware superior for a large class of people, I think it's design (including software) is fantastic, especially its emphasis on learning as opposed to "this is a computer, here, enjoy" that the classmate seems to have.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
This review makes me angry. Why the hell would you review something as though it were a consumer product for spoiled white kids who have two computers to choose from and who see if their children's version of "second life" works. OLPC is intended for kids who have one extremely endangered life and need to learn basic computer skills. The fact that they had to CALL a tech support place is the sign of Intel's failure. What, are kids in Africa going to walk 30 miles to a pay phone that they can't afford just to be put on hold and deal with call centers in Bangladesh? Are we trying to punish these poor kids?
Please go read up on the OLPC project.
Start with the mission statement:
OLPC is not, at heart, a technology program, nor is the XO a product in any conventional sense of the word. OLPC is a non-profit organization providing a means to an end--an end that sees children in even the most remote regions of the globe being given the opportunity to tap into their own potential, to be exposed to a whole world of ideas, and to contribute to a more productive and saner world community.
Q: why doesn't OLPC make a $100 laptop for the US Market?
A: That is not the purpose of the OLPC project. They do not have the resources nor the infrastructure to pursue such a commercial, non-humanitarian effort, nor the desire.
Q: Why do companies like Dell and Intel make a sub-$100 laptop for the US market?
A: There is very little profit in it.
The OLPC is not about providing computing access to underprivileged youths its about "children around the world with new opportunities to explore, experiment and express themselves." The market droids are doing a good job of twisting this nonprofit educational project into a competition for "emerging markets"
The people who developed the OLPC have been working on this project for years and they have experimented extensively in 3rd world countries before designing their learning device to ensure success in achieving their goals, Intel's objective as stated on their classmatePC website is simply marketing.
So you see, it is predatory, not competition.
Tsunami -- You can't bring a good wave down!
Intel is NOT interested in providing computing access to underprivileged youths. They are interested in keeping 30Million children from learning to use AMD based devices which htey previously called a 'toy', a 'joke', and 'of little interest to Intel's business'. In short, they are scared they will loose money, and they are correct. Competition in the market is not bad. The practices Intel is employing to kill off a humanitarian effort to protect their bottom line is.
OLPC is a humanitarian project which is trying to provide educational devices to third world countries. These devices are 100% open (open hardware and software) with minimal maintainance. They are designed for the harsh environments and to have minimal environmental impact.
Intel at first dismissed and made fun of the project, then realized that it could be a threat to their business. Instead of developing a better product with humanitarian goals, they created a piece of closed hardware junk with huge environmental impacts. These devices are not designed for third world environments, have a 2 hour battery life, etc, etc, etc. They are being sold well below cost, and Intel is flying all over the world to the governments which approached OLPC and spending millions to sell these devices to them. Not out of a humanitarian effort, but as a business transaction. While on the surface this may seem like competition in an open market, that is just not the case.
OLPC is not a market driven business project. OLPC did not go to governments to sell their program, they announced the program and the governments came to them. In order to provide the devices cheaply, and allow the governments to develop the devices themselves, OLPC needs 3Mil units ordered. They were close to having that before Intel came along and started lobbying only these governments, and offering these junk replacements (internal cost estimate at $400, NOT the $200 under priced value, nor the $50 'introductory' price).
The sole purpose of this is a predatory act to stop an AMD based device from gaining acceptance. This also ignores the software effort. The hardware laptop is only 50% of the OLPC project. The other half is the revolutionary new operating system and GUI being developed as part of OLPC, specifically for child learning. Intel doesn't want to be bothered, because they are not in the business of providing a learning device, they are in the buisness of selling intel chips.
So yes its predatory. VERY predatory, because that is what the computer business is, and that is what Intel is. The stock holders and board members would not have it any other way. OLPC is something completely different, and is being hurt by their actions.
Is this bad for the children? Just look at the two devices, and I think you have your answer.
Typical American School classroom: 30 Students all at basically the same level (grade wise) Computer lab available if not in classroom. Textbooks for every subject. Library full of reference books. Teacher and Assistant. Blackboard, overhead projector, audio/visual equipment. Electricity, desks and lights. Computer access at home. Typical Emerging Market school classroom: Lots of students. Teacher. Blackboard. OLPC is designed provide more than just a computer. It'll be a textbook, library, play video, link to scarce resources, link to the world. It can even be used by the parents of these kids to lookup agricultural processes, how to build a pump to get clean water, medical information, lobby the UN and world bank for money, info on micro loans, check to see if their government is lying to them.
Classsmate !
As soon as Intel have driven the OLPC out of the market, they will hatch some limp reason why their own product will no longer ship. These piddling margins don't interest the evil that is Intel -- so they'll kill that end of the market in order to preserve their margins up the other end. It's about time we boycotted these bastards.
Windows 2000 needs things like a hard drive, lots of non-volatile storage, and a BIOS. It also costs more than the target price.
Windows 2000 is also designed to be difficult to use and discover: It doesn't include a development environment, a word processor, any wifi support, or introspection tools.
In contrast: the users of the OLPC are encouraged to extend the system, and write software for it, and to share that software.The OLPC can make critical thinkers and sharp engineering minds out of these kids who simply don't have enough engineering challenges in which to learn these things.
Since Windows 2000 - and all other versions of Windows ever lack the ability to engage and challenge its users to make a better system, it certainly cannot answer that call without writing a whole operating system on top of Windows.
I also fail to see how the fact that you might not have to retrain a group of users who aren't even the target audience of the OLPC is a good thing, and since it means giving up all the other things that are good about the OLPC, I can easily see how it is a very bad thing.
You are confusing OEM Windows with Windows. Toshiba went and installed those drivers for you when they installed Windows. If they preinstalled Linux you quite obviously, wouldn't have to install those drivers there, either.
Buying a laptop that works with Retail Windows is very difficult. Most require special drivers just to install it.So don't buy unsupported hardware?
Seriously, if Toshiba made Linux laptops, they'd integrate WIFI hardware that sucked less.FWIW, I've been using Linux as my only desktop operating system since 1994, and the trick is to buy hardware that is supported by Linux.
This isn't that difficult, as Linux has far superiour hardware support over every other operating system, but it means that if you're installing your own operating system, you're doing the job of the integrator, so it's your job to make sure the hardware works.
If you don't want to play integrator, don't: Dell is preloading Ubuntu today, and there are quite a few other OEMs that will sell you Ubuntu preloaded- including laptop makers.
But every time you blame this on Linux, to some you're just making yourself look more and more like a idiot, and to people who know less than you, you're just confusing.
Even putting aside the infrastructure issues, third world countries cannot build these themselves for their citizens. OLPC is giving them the blueprints, hardware and software, to make these for themselves. The XO offerings are a prototype and starter offering, the goal is to have each country providing the hardware and software themselves. It's the proverbial "Teach a man to fish", as opposed to Intel's "Give a man a fish".
http://www.mhall119.com
The review seemed selective, but I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt. (Having said that, I recently worked for a place that paid the Wall Street Journal to run an "article" for them, so I tend to be more skeptical than I used to be.)
First, if the laptop is aimed at overseas users, is the technical support going to be capable of handling that?
Second, also for overseas use, this will be sent to people who have never seen a computer - big or otherwise - and are probably unfamiliar with the notion of GUIs or possibly even typing. In fact, you can't rely on anything we take for granted being known. Some of it probably will, but you can't know which bits for which people. Is the interface culturally-neutral?
Third, two hours doesn't seem like a lot, when the nearest wall socket in Africa might be several week's walk. Is there an alternative power system? Doesn't matter what - solar cells, power crank, whatever. Without power, it's a lump of plastic-coated spare parts.
Fourth, how is the internationalization? IIRC, Hebrew and Chinese are written right to left - does the typing tutor know this? Are the desktop icons themable to something meaningful in each culture? Did you look to see that the SIL packages and fonts for internationalization were there?
Fifth, you mention wireless issues. But this would likely have been in a home with a wireless access point, or near a metro-provided WAP. This would be pretty useless in a school with no WAP, but only laptops. That would also be useless for mobile populations, where connections between groups will be at indeterminate times and places, but will need to be recognized and supported whenever they exist.
Even in England, you have over a hundred thousand "Travellers" who would benefit from dynamic wireless routing, Mobile IP and NEMO support. Is the wireless support for these sorts of things there?
Lastly, there's the durability. Three kids in a suburban, air-conditioned home is one thing. Whether you are talking about English Travellers, Mexican street kids or Tibetan Sherpas, the climates are more extreme, the stresses are infinitely worse, and the availability of replacements is next to zero.
In the real world, you are looking at external temperatures ranging from -40 to +120. Usually not on the same day, but that can happen. You are looking at shocks that could exceed 6G. Water won't be a spilled glass of coca cola, it's more likely to be monsoon season. The case won't be so much scratched by bumping into a wall as it will be stabbed by the occasional 6' mugger's knife.
When you get into the real-world situations, where "ruggedized" is really pushed to the limits, will this machine really stand up to the punishments it will receive? Or is it merely going to be a way for Intel to pocket some cash, with the customer ending up both financially and intellectually the poorer for it?
All I ask of reviewers, OLPC, Intel or any other person involved is to convince me. Why me, in particular? Because I'm demanding but stay within the limits of what is practical, and am knowledgeable enough to set the limits to what is practical. So can many others - I'm nothing special - it's that I'm posting a set of measurable benchmarks and criteria, and that could theoretically be useful.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
You are dead right.
Reminds me of sitting on a flight from LA to Chicago. I was reading a magazine and inside the mag, was a letter from the CEO of that airline asking us to donate awards miles to help children fly to hospitals for treatment. It was a nicely written letter and it sounded like a noble cause but as I was reading this, all I could think was.....why couldn't the kid fly in the empty seat next to me?
(attibute: David Cross)
I have read many of the replies so far, and as a person that lives in the U.S. and has traveled to so called developing countries a handful of times, I feel that I can comfortably say a few things. First not everyone in developing countries live in mud shacks and are covered with flies like you see in the "save the children" tv spots. There are many towns and villages that have at least some electricity, the problem is this electricity is often inconsistant and will go out for minutes or hours at a time. A 2 hour battery life while not perfect is certainly enough to keep things running during a typical 3rd world middle of the afternoon power outage. People that think these computers will be sent home with the students any time in the next few decades are in for a surprise, they will be locked away in the school house next to the 40 year old textbooks and will be shared between at least 6 students. There are also many countries that fall between the so called Western standard of living and stereotypical developing world that could utilize a cheap rugged notebook computer.
Ike
I think the answer is just to cut a hand off anyone who steals one. Aww yeah.
Seriously though, they can be set to brick themselves, they can easily report their location if they are powered (don't even need to be turned on) and so on.
Also, nobody wants the ClassmatePC. It has two, maybe two and a half hours of battery life. For $200, I can buy an ordinary used laptop that will last that long with probably four times the screen real estate, and a sizable hard disk.
The ClassmatePC is a pile of shit that no one in their right mind would pay more than maybe seventy-five bucks for. But I'd happily pay $200 for the OLPC, and could probably be talked into spending $300 if I knew it would result in the donation of a system to a needy child.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"