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The Private Outsourcing of US Intelligence Services
mrbluze writes "It appears that more and more of the data collection sanctioned by the US government is passed through the hands of private enterprise, Salon reports. 'Because of the cloak of secrecy thrown over the intelligence budgets, there is no way for the American public, or even much of Congress, to know how those contractors are getting the money, what they are doing with it, or how effectively they are using it. The explosion in outsourcing has taken place against a backdrop of intelligence failures for which the Bush administration has been hammered by critics, from Saddam Hussein's fictional weapons of mass destruction to abusive interrogations that have involved employees of private contractors operating in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantánamo Bay, Cuba. Aftergood and other experts also warn that the lack of transparency creates conditions ripe for corruption.'"
"Well, we can't keep our data secure, so we thought, why bother?"
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
It's when I read stories about messed up governments that make me glad I live in, damn.
Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
pay me to observe the posts of the notoriously secretive and suspected Al Quaida member Anonymous Coward.
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
The "intelligence" failure was in the White House and it's coterie of civilian hit men sent to the Pentagon and the CIA. They simply chose crap, dismissed data they were told was garbage and ignored contrary facts presented to them. Analysts were quitting on principle; I remember them being interviewed in 1992. The PNACers used a hack, Tenet, to put a stamp on their fabricated package of dog poo. Then, after the lies hit the fan, they BLAMED THE INTEL THEY WERE TOLD WAS CRAP. Retch and repeat. And since the Niger documents were a known forgery even then, when do we ask the question: who commissioned the forgeries?
"The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them. "
only listening to what they want to hear, I just got a business idea:
Mr. Bush, Iran is responsible for all the problems in the world, and invading will cause no problems whatsoever. This report will cost you a billion dollars, thank you!
Monstar L
I take your point about the White House only hearing what they want to hear and making it up when thats not the case. However political interference aside there was also a large failure on the part of the intelligence services to gather accurate information mainly due to few in place assets, regional antipathy to the US and the willingness of the intelligence services to pay for information which led to a glut of 'informants' spouting whatever made up crap they thought US agents would pay to hear.
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
the great thing about private companies doing the governments dirty work, is that there is no way to obtain the infomation, these secrets are just that. and this is new how? the Americans have been spying on the British the British on the Australians and the Australians on America for decades, each country is not allowed to spy on their own ppl but they can spy on another country and then share the information, and the biggest bonus is plausible deniability. http://www.thedossier.ukonline.co.uk/
The Truth Is Out There:
...of information, not to mention the law, suggest that all of the secrecy can lead to corruption, as though it may happen. I'd argue that we're well past that point- the first sign that something is amiss is the unprecedented secrecy. The surveillance and other illegal acts are just window dressing.
Im not paranoid, Im lazy and dont want to have to change my settings for every tom dick and harry website that doesnt need to retain my session on the CLIENT SIDE, which is insecure anyway. Its so hard to save session info on a server isnt it not that there is any session or anything of use to save anyway. Its just bad design by the gimps in technology today.
http://www.rense.com/general79/wdx1.htm
This sounds like an easy way around the CIA's domestic spying restrictions.
Would a private contractor be subject to any of these restrictions?
Every time the non-native English speakers (and USA hater) read something about the American intelligence it cracks us up. This is because we almost automatically interpret the word 'intelligence' as in 'intelligent'. So reading about outsourcing the American Intelligence really spurs some fun reactions, like "That's a good idea", "do they have any?", "Must be a simple task" and so on and so on.
Really, we simply can not stop ridiculing you when you have words that sounds like a joke to the rest of the world.
One thing I've never understood about the USA is why Americans seem completely bind to the corruption within their own system. Example - Dick Cheney - until he became Vice President he was Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Halliburton Energy Services, he is still a major stockholder. Then, the Iraq war happened, apparently a driving force behind that was Cheney. Do you guys not have the concept of "conflict of interest"?
Is the problem that in school you have it drummed into you how great the USA is, and so don't see the problems? (Sorry I realise this post is a bit trollish, but it is a genuine question).
The purpose of outsourcing is avoiding the rules and laws of government, and achieving greater secrecy.
A secret government is a corrupt government.
The present intensification of secrecy began in the late 40's with establishment of the idea that the government could secretly manipulate governments and kill people to protect the profits of U.S. companies, particularly oil companies.
With enough secrecy, a government becomes a dictatorship.
Both Cheney and Junior are alcoholics, with typical alcoholic personalities. (Even though alcoholics may not be drinking, the personality persists.)
Alcoholics always or almost always have anger problems. Angry people who are powerful enough may act out their anger by killing people. Alcoholics almost always want to keep things secret, because part of their personality disorder is that they don't face their conflicts. For more about the effect of alcoholism, see The behavior of Bush and Cheney is consistent with the behavior of alcoholics. Bush and Cheney arrest Records.
It amazes me how easily U.S. citizens have given up their freedoms and the excellent principles on which the great country of the United States was founded. It amazes me that U.S. citizens are willing to work a full month every year to pay for the corruption, to pay for a few ignorant, conflicted people to have their way.
this explains the change in dresscode at some indian call centers, to dark sunglasses and suits
It's happening all through government. Military and GS people flipping over to contractors literally overnight. Same people doing the exact same job. Khaki on Friday, shirt and tie on Monday. Somehow they appear to have waived the conflict of interest clauses in military service that were supposed to keep that from happening.
I don't have that many contacts in the intelligence services but I wouldn't be surprised to find the same trend there. I'm betting a lot of the intelligence contracting were government people one day, private contractors the next.
Either way this is a bad trend. There are some things we want the government to do, even though you can argue it costs more and is less efficient. That's okay. Some services have considerations that need to go beyond the bottom line. Aside from that there appears to be little accountability in contract awards these days and many seem to have political overtones. High level positions going to people whose chief qualification seems to be that they graduated from Oral Roberts University.
If there's an encouraging sign it's that we're...finally...starting to see some outrage from those calling themselves conservatives. Better late than never I guess.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
It appears to be a tracking cookie (rather than a session identifier) and I agree it's bad design.
I tested the page in lynx and it worked fine, dunno if it's using heuristics or something but the cookie is only the tip of the iceberg. This is the page I get in firefox - I have javascript disabled.
It's a more general problem, it's not just most web developers that are utterly clueless. Every industry is full of clueless people with no interest in what they're doing other than the paycheck at the end of the month.
"... the [Saudi] royals are personal friends and business associates of the Bush family."
More than just personal friends, physically affectionate friends
I don't recall hearing *any* politician, regardless of the country they are in, but especially the Congressional ones, apologize, or otherwise admit they were wrong regarding these WMDs.
They were all hell-bent on starting a quick war, perhaps in the hopes of cleaning up in the polls and making themselves look good (which, they should know by now, is impossible in the eyes of the American people and perhaps the world).
It was not just our President who was convinced, but Congress was as well, even the notoriously liberal (in all the wrong ways) Kennedy, who said, and I quote here:
"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002
and one from Mr. "I invented the Interwebs":
"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
Whether we went in looking for nukes or bacteria is moot, we are there now, but those that saw the war take an unfavourable turn (and apparently know nothing of history, the losses we have incurred there are miniscule compared to, say WW2 island hopping losses) have hardly admitted their mistake in being for it.
The hypocrasy surrounding the entire Iraq was is astounding.
So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
There is more than anyone wants to know about (USA) prime-contractors, sub-contracting (China, India ...) out software projects for (1997-present) all government systems and agencies. It is all very funny at this point, "Don't Worry, Be Happy, Ignorance is Bliss for US, EU.... We are betrayed more by our own arrogance and incompetence in government, then any prime-contractor.
... failed, because of liberals, but if liberals did not exist, then (like Napoleon, Hitler ...) Bush, Chaney, Rumsfeld ... would express a form of "If they cannot win for me, then they die for me" (luckily they have the democrats).
If you have core business requirements/products, which you contract out to others, then expect eventually to be filling for bankruptcy and begging forgiveness of the Board and Shareholders for giving the business away. If management is incompetent (true for US, decades), making bad or criminal decisions, it does not matter how hard the rank&file Warriors and Citizens work and sacrifice, the enterprise is going out of business.
Our present political, military (checkout NPR General stories), and civil-service is weighted with management that says GetItDone, has super socializing skills, takes credit for GettingThingsDone, and nepotisticly distributes blame for FailingToDo to any opposition/lamb, and across the rank&file Warriors' and Citizens' who do the work and sacrifice. I expect to hear years from now that Bush, Chaney
Congress will never impeach Bush/Chaney and DoD (Do or Die) Rumsfeld's bobble-head selected military leaders will perpetuate a politicized and socially approved career path to the four-star level. Military/Intelligence performance is blamed on everything and everyone, except for the (new-spin) Politically-Correct and socially acceptable [[no Warriors, Planners, Commanders, fags, or atheist need apply]]. Warriors, Planners, Commanders... are to be relegated to the tactical level only where they are needed, which will allow General Managers (as in business) to market themselves and maybe eventually become president/CEO (retirement by bankruptcy).
DOD/Intelligence needs to be freed from oppression of politics, not further politicized by promoting fart-eating, shit-sucking, ass-kissing, bullshitters in the GO and SES community as vapor-success performers. Rank&File Warriors and Citizens do the jobs, politicized management personnel are bottom-feeders and scavengers of the USA workplace (Business, Religion, Government, Military).
Unaccountable leaders are masters, and unrepresented people are slaves. How do US and EU fare?
And what did the Iraqi people do to deserve being nuked?
We "won" the war when we took over the Iraqi government. Years ago.
Again, specifically, which of those agreements was worth the 3,400+ of our troops that have died over there? Or the uncounted number of Iraqi civilians who have died?
If i dont let you peek into my home its beacuse i didnt agree to it as a condition of surrender.. Saddam did agree to this. When he started playing games its logical to asume shady activity was going on. Letting inspectors into specially 'cleansed' areas does not qualify as 'opening the doors' in my opinion. ( and many others )
I am willing to accept that perhaps it was all just a scam on his part to make people believe he had something he didnt, to try to pretend he had some power and taunt the world community in general. He still deserved to have his country leveled in either case.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Remarks by the President in Address to the United Nations General Assembly
New York, New York
10:39 A.M. EDT
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Secretary General, Mr. President, distinguished delegates, and ladies and gentlemen: We meet one year and one day after a terrorist attack brought grief to my country, and brought grief to many citizens of our world. Yesterday, we remembered the innocent lives taken that terrible morning. Today, we turn to the urgent duty of protecting other lives, without illusion and without fear.
We've accomplished much in the last year -- in Afghanistan and beyond. We have much yet to do -- in Afghanistan and beyond. Many nations represented here have joined in the fight against global terror, and the people of the United States are grateful.
The United Nations was born in the hope that survived a world war -- the hope of a world moving toward justice, escaping old patterns of conflict and fear. The founding members resolved that the peace of the world must never again be destroyed by the will and wickedness of any man. We created the United Nations Security Council, so that, unlike the League of Nations, our deliberations would be more than talk, our resolutions would be more than wishes. After generations of deceitful dictators and broken treaties and squandered lives, we dedicated ourselves to standards of human dignity shared by all, and to a system of security defended by all.
Today, these standards, and this security, are challenged. Our commitment to human dignity is challenged by persistent poverty and raging disease. The suffering is great, and our responsibilities are clear. The United States is joining with the world to supply aid where it reaches people and lifts up lives, to extend trade and the prosperity it brings, and to bring medical care where it is desperately needed.
As a symbol of our commitment to human dignity, the United States will return to UNESCO. (Applause.) This organization has been reformed and America will participate fully in its mission to advance human rights and tolerance and learning.
Our common security is challenged by regional conflicts -- ethnic and religious strife that is ancient, but not inevitable. In the Middle East, there can be no peace for either side without freedom for both sides. America stands committed to an independent and democratic Palestine, living side by side with Israel in peace and security. Like all other people, Palestinians deserve a government that serves their interests and listens to their voices. My nation will continue to encourage all parties to step up to their responsibilities as we seek a just and comprehensive settlement to the conflict.
Above all, our principles and our security are challenged today by outlaw groups and regimes that accept no law of morality and have no limit to their violent ambitions. In the attacks on America a year ago, we saw the destructive intentions of our enemies. This threat hides within many nations, including my own. In cells and camps, terrorists are plotting further destruction, and building new bases for their war against civilization. And our greatest fear is that terrorists will find a shortcut to their mad ambitions when an outlaw regime supplies them with the technologies to kill on a massive scale.
In one place -- in one regime -- we find all these dangers, in their most lethal and aggressive forms, exactly the kind of aggressive threat the United Nations was born to confront.
Twelve years ago, Iraq invaded Kuwait without provocation. And the regime's forces were poised to co
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
And, BTW, about your sig...
The civil war ended over 140 years ago. Talk about needing to "get over your loss". I guess you're still upset that you are not allowed to own slaves.I feel like death on a soda cracker.
Does anybody else find the idea of transparency in spying to be an odd conception?
In the government, the good person can't be paid well. That would violate all sorts of stupid government rules. The only way to pay the person well is if they are not considered a person, but a business.
In the government, nobody can fire the differently abled buddhist afro-american transsexual. It can slack off all it wants, generally fuck things up, etc. Competent people aren't all willing to stomach having to deal with that in a coworker, boss, or underling.
Lots of competent people don't wish to pee in a cup. A few may be light drug users that would still manage to do good work. The rest are just insulted that anybody would suggest that drugs might be in use.
The government isn't providing stock options, fancy food, etc. It's not like working at Google.
So contracters, big and small, are how shit gets done. It's economics finding a way past some of the stupidity. The cost is of course some other types of stupidity.
He still deserved to have his country leveled in either case.
Yes all those those people who lived under a man that was propped up by US/UK commercial interests for the last 30 years deserved to die when he became no longer useful. That should teach the next dictator put into place by the same interests a big lesson.
What?
And so it seems to have been abused, but I don't think there's any stopping it now.
The demographics, an aging baby boom generation who grow more conservative as they age, favor the increasingly protofascist elements of our political system. As we boomers age, we will tend to favor the group of politicians who will promise us old age benefits. The Republican Party has always been out front for looting the public taxes to buy votes from the old. That's just how the system works; one party or the other was going to do it. But now that the political system has been gamed, we need to respond.
Combine the mono-culture fundamentalist christians (no, not cap C), big oil/big money, the one-issue gun lobby, and the demographics, and you have the recipe for an unbreakable control of our government. And the current crop of villains who had control of our government is just the most recent example of what will become the norm; the abuse of power by those who are best able to manipulate the system.
The proto fascists will continue to grow a secret police organization, a private (outsourced) police. Eisenhower's prediction about the military-industrial complex came true long ago. But what disheartens me is the knowledge that we will abide this ongoing decay in the values and standards that were hoped for by the founders of our nation. There was no outcry when the Patriot Act was passed. There seems to be no outrage about the Justice Department's (Gonzales, and Card, with assistance from Bush) violations of the law WRT wiretaps. (Think about that. The federal Justice Department breaking the law.)
We can expect this 'outsourcing' of covert activities to continue because it serves to concentrate power in one branch of our government.
I named Republicans as a guilty party, but it could just have easily been the Democratic Party. Events in 1964 changed where the balance of power in the Republican Party lay. The names of political parties is not as important as the names of the actors involved and who they serve. I don't think the future of our government is well served by this large secret police organization. Democracy thrives in the open air.
Best regards.
--IANA world leader, so feel free to enlighten me, but what right does a publicly elected government have to hide things from its owners ?--
My fiancee works for the US Gov and her and I have had many talks about just that subject. I've swung my opinion to somewhere between where I was when I met her and where she sits. I'll explain:
There are (in our opinions) certain LIMITED reasons for the government to withhold sensitive information. For the record, "sensitive information" would include things such as troop movements and positions, timetables for said movements, floor plans for certain buildings, and identities of spies. In these cases, releasing that information to the general public is most likely to result in loss of human life on a (sometimes) massive scale. I can't argue with that logic. I don't agree with things like spies and whatnot, but I don't see an option. As for most other things, the goverment should most CERTAINLY be transparent in its doings. To do anything less would be dishonest and above all against the idea of a democracy.
I recall a news article in the last 6 months or so (sorry, I'm not citing, I don't remember where the heck I read it, please take w/grain of salt.) about someone in the upper levels of the Government basically making some damning evidence against them a matter of "national security". That is utter, grade A, 100% USDA top choice BULLSHIT, and should have been treated as such.
My parents used to tell me that if I didn't think for myself, someone else, most likely far less qualified, will do it for me. I wish more parents would have included that in the raising of their children.
My 2 cents,
A.A
Your mind is like a parachute. It works best when it's been opened.
The 2006 estimate was that 26,783,383 people live in that country - did they deserve to have THEIR country leveled too ?
Prick !
What goes around, comes around, so you had better start making amends for Bush's global interference, otherwise someone might decide to level the U.S. !
I find it funny that if a surgical strike had taken out saddam and a few of his commanders, then the whole countrys infrastructure would still be intact, and the US wouldn't be mired in the deep shit they are now. And the actual people who fucking live there would be better off. (which was the whole cooked up premise, wasn't it ?)
But that was never the real intention was it ? The people of Iraq were the last reason for invading, it was all down to backroom agreements between the commander in chief and his military-industrial buddies.
This post confuses me, how is this person retarded? As someone who had to grow up with a powerful, abusive alcoholic and spent several years as an alanon counsler there is nothing in those statements that is crazy. No, not all alcoholics are abusive but if the alcoholic has an abusive personality, power does seem to magnify their abusive tendencies. Even though accusing those two of being alcoholics may be unfair and even possibly libelous, the poster does have a point that they seem to exhibit some common personality traits of abusive alcoholics. Of course there is another disease that has similar traits that is NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder). See if they fit any of these criteria:
(1) has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
(2) is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
(3) believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
(4) requires excessive admiration
(5) has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
(6) is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
(7) lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
(8) is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her
(9) shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes
For the the most interesting idea to come of this is that the government may be limited legally (increasingly not, admittedly) in the actions they can take directly, but may not be so limited if they hire someone to do it for them. For example, even if Congress gathers finds within themselves a bit of responsibility, ethics and manages to remember the constitution and the american people, and manages to restore Habeas Corpus and prohibit torture, the administration will probably just hire it out to "independent contractors" who, by being just that, independent, will not be subject to such laws. Make it all happen in another country (or a ship outside american waters) and Hey Presto! legal torture.
Similarly, one can imagine contracting out censorship. The government itself may not be able to censor anything, but surely they could use black budgets to hire people (for example, the recently featured warriors for innocence) to do it for them, or even, one might imagine, paying CNN and Fox news to carefully pass over the kind of story that would give the government a black eye. And every time someone cried out "Censorship" people (you see it all the time here on /.) would say : "It isn't censorship if the government isn't doing it."
And it wouldn't be the government, at least not directly.
Even local governments or police departments might manage this. I don't think they can do it directly, but a bit of under the table funding for photographers catching people doing stuff that the local city administrators might find annoying (or even persuading some local rich person/company with the same kinds of interest to pay for the same thing) could go a very long ways.
And no, this is not necessarily the kinds of actions I can only imagine a Republican administration doing. The Democrats are equally in love with power. And the libertarians would probably start with such actions - just cuz they fit in with their general philosophy.
The 2006 estimate was that 26,783,383 people live in that country - did they deserve to have THEIR country leveled too ?
Prick ! You know what's funny? That sentiment is 10% neocon doctrine. The citizens of the country are responsible for their leaders. It was the German people's fault Hitler had power, it was the Iraqi people's fault Saddam was there. Just imagine their bleatings of consternation if someone turned around and said they were just as guilty for supporting Bush. "But Bush is no Hitler!" they would shriek. Yeah, they're right at that: Hitler actually served his country in time of war.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
Cheers,
Dave
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty.
Ben
That was something my father always talked about when he came to this country and noticed the lack of cooperation amongst individuals. I guess in "the old country" people used to get together and complain. It happened once here, I think it was called the labor movement. Despite what the unions are portrayed as today, right or wrong, it was a good thing at the time.
These days, it's the same thing, people just don't come together and protest _anything_ - it's a feeling of being powerless. I don't know where it comes from but it is weird.
My father used to joke that the ruination of America will be the same thing that made it great - the forgetting of the "old ways." I now get the joke even though I didn't at the time. Sure people had it worse at the time and so they wanted to throw the yoke off of their shoulders (get rid of the old ways) and start with a new gov't but as I see it, we've forgotten how to band together and flex our collective muscle (getting rid of the old ways).