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Man Sues Gateway Because He Can't Read EULA
Scoopy writes "California resident Dennis Sheehan took Gateway to small claims court after he reportedly received a defective computer and little technical support from the PC manufacturer. Gateway responded with their own lawyer and a 2-inch thick stack of legal docs, and claimed that Sheehan violated the EULA, which requires that users give up their right to sue and settle these cases in private arbitration. Sheehan responded that he never read the EULA, which pops up when the user first starts the computer, because the graphics were scrambled — precisely the problem he had complained to tech support in the first place. A judge sided with Sheehan on May 24 and the case will proceed to small claims court. A lawyer is quoted as saying that Sheehan, a high school dropout who is arguing his own case, is in for a world of hurt: 'This poor guy now faces daunting reality of having to litigate this on appeal against Gateway...By winning, he's lost.'"
Seriously. Have you? Can you keep a straight face and tell me you read all those legalese crap? I didn't.
First of all, it can be summed up into "We may do everything, you may do nothing, essentially, you're a dork for using our software". And second, almost all of them violate our consumer protection laws.
So, why bother wasting time?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Dont companies these days thing its a bad thing to sue their own customers? Let alone make headlines for doing? Really what do they gain?
B5 71 ED FB 55 D6 4E 68 07 25 E2 FA CA 93 F0 2F, is mine! All mine!
I believe that we may be approaching critical mass (in decades or centuries, not years) within the imposition of legal absurdity upon humankind. I expect that the populace will ultimately become so oppressed by the duress of corporate greed that uses legal thuggery as it's enforcer, that humanity will just quit accepting it and reject the entire premise of law.
If there is wisdom within the world of corporate law, someone will realise that this is approaching and will work for internal reform, before external reform arrives as a consequence of insults to humanity like this.
Exactly. He's already made Gateway spend money not only on his tech support calls, but on a lawyer who doesn't come cheap. At some point, it will be in Gateway's interest to just cut their losses and refund the money. The longer he holds out, the more likely that will happen.
Being a computer user is really tough sometimes: Not only do they expect you to be a computer expert, but they also expect you to be a legal expert.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
> the EULA, which requires that users give up their right to sue
;) I don't know much about US law system but the whole idea looks awkard. In my country you can state whatever bullshit you wish in license agreement or whatever - but it is void unless it is valid with the law. So I could make a license that you own me your liver if you use my software while not drinking milk - but it would be pointless.
Is it even possible in US to get in such agreement? I am Polish.
It is possible in US to just make a license that disallows you to sue by the other party? That is kind of retarded - even if it is possible - what it is for?
I thought that you _ALLWAYS_ have a right to sue (fight for your rights) and nobody can take it from you?
i've always had the opinoin that eula's are not legal, and are just used as a bully tactic. i hope this guy wins.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
Abraham Lincoln would have been proud then.
And these blokes need to re-evaluate what they are doing in life
Having said that Abe Lincoln probably would have preferred to finish/receive an education.
Semi-automatic amateur armchair Australian philosopher; conjecture ready at any moment...
A better argument is that since the sale was completed before he was presented with the EULA, you don't have to agree to it, regardless of whatever stupid human tricks the computer makes you do.
Even if he could read the EULA, he would never understand it. How can anyone be expected to give informed consent to legalese gibberish? A team of lawyers might not even agree on exactly what it means. All anyone really understands is that we must click on "Yes" or "Agree" to continue. All EULAs should be thrown out in court.
The Uncoveror: It's the real news.
In this case, there is a good argument there was not proper notice.
There's also a good argument that he did nothing to enter into the agreement. If you buy a car, and there's a cap over the ignition from which a sign is hanging saying that you agree to various terms and conditions if you use the car, that's a pretty shitty way to get someone to enter into a contract, but someone can point to the moment where you agreed to it, or at least failed to raise an objection. If there's a stack of papers in the back seat that you've never seen before telling you that you've forfeited all sorts of rights and incurred all sorts of obligations, that's thinner stuff.
You may be right about "contract iff signature" bullshit in general, but any printed EULA's that were introduced to him only when he received the computer, not during any part of the sale, he didn't sign, didn't mail in, didn't scratch off any of the boxes to see what he won, didn't connect the dots to see what kind of flower they made, they were just foisted upon him without his consideration or consent. It's the same as if Gateway had randomly stopped somebody on the street and handed him a stack of documents that said he could never sue them. That's not a contract. Oh, right. IANAL. I hope that's not a contract.
Finally modding someone offtopic when they rant about what "Begging the Question" means: priceless.
Self-taught pros are a rare exception, most people would be completely helpless without some sort of organized brainwashing like the kind that happens in western schools. In any case, the classroom teaches social interaction (to some extent). It might result in highly social morons, but at least they're social :P People who are moronic AND antisocial are in tough shape.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
yeah, but even if he could SEE and PRESS the button, it still might not be valid. IANAL but many shrink wrap EULA's and licenses have been ruled invalid. Just because they tell you you can't sue them doesn't mean that you can't. There are various rights and protections you have that they can't take away simply by saying "we are taking this right away from you"
"Jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny" ~Frank Zappa
EdelFactor
Finally, EULAs are sometimes just as important to you and "throwing them all out" would be idiotic. They often set out things like your warranty coverage and your rights to use software (your "license") that you otherwise wouldn't have the right. Most importantly, it keeps things CHEAPER for you. If every computer/software company had unlimited liability, you would probably be spending considerably more for your purchases.
Shennanigans. Commerce has operated without EULAs just fine for centuries. I never sign a contract when I buy something from a supermarket, or even a big ticket item like a fridge, and somehow those companies don't suffer "unlimited liability" claims. Plenty of businesses have general terms and conditions that aren't disguised as contracts, and they're just as valid -- in fact, probably moreso, as they don't pretend to be something they're not.
Also, tricking people into agreeing to waive their rights is pretty stupid. Even if it were found that a contract was entered into, that sort of term is often thrown out as unreasonable.
SCO employee? Check out the bounty
You can't ... sell yourself into slavery.
Sure you can. Just carry a credit card balance.
Disconnect your television. Do your own research. Draw your own conclusions. They're probably lying. Don't be a sheep.