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The SoundExchange Billion Dollar Administrative Fee

palewook writes "On June 7th, Yahoo, RealNetworks, Pandora, and Live365 sent letters to US lawmakers emphasizing they owe SoundExchange 'administrative fees' of more than $1 billion dollars a year. These fees would be paid for the 'privilege' of collecting the increased CRB royalties effective July 15th, unless the Internet Radio Equality Act passes Congress. SoundExchange, the non-profit music industry entity, admits the levied charge of $500 per 'channel' is supposed to only cover their administrative costs. Last year, SoundExchange collected a total of $20 million dollars from the Internet radio industry. Under the new 'administrative fee' RealNetworks, which hosted 400,000 unique subscribed channels in 2006, would owe an annual administrative charge of 200 million dollars in addition to the retroactive 2006 rate hike per song played."

31 of 127 comments (clear)

  1. My heroes by Timesprout · · Score: 4, Funny

    They beat me to it. It's always been my dream to set up a non-profit (for everyone else except me of couse) that rakes in money by charging other companies fee levels that I just make up.

    --
    Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
    What truth?
    There is no dupe
    1. Re:My heroes by Bodero · · Score: 4, Funny
      It's always been my dream to set up a non-profit (for everyone else except me of couse) that rakes in money by charging other companies fee levels that I just make up.


      There's always money to be made in the carbon offset business...

  2. Re:If you didn't vote Libertarian YOU ASKED FORTHI by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Funny

    With advocates like this, it's hard to believe people have difficulty taking Libertarians seriously.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  3. in fair comparison.... by 3seas · · Score: 2, Interesting

    .. I'd like to see the math and results of income to such organizations and businesses ... but prior to internet.

    In other words, who gets what without the internet?

  4. Just like a cancer by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The RIAA will kill off internet radio, then another piece of the 'music pie', and then another and another until it has nothing left.

    1. Re:Just like a cancer by KKlaus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Except... selling albums. Or are you implying that people will stop listening to music? Destroying markets that aren't profitable for you or that you don't control is evil, and our freaking congress of all groups shouldn't be the ones giving these guys cart blanche to do so, but it isn't exactly bad business.

      --
      Relax I just want some peanuts.
    2. Re:Just like a cancer by GreatBunzinni · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Correction: the RIAA will kill off internet radio FROM THE US of A. The RIAA is an american business association which lobbies the US government institutions to implement policies in order for their associates' business to thrive. It's influence outside of the US isn't felt, specially in countries where fair use rights are acknowledged and respected. So the only thing that the RIAA's antics will produce is effectively strangling the US market.

      --
      Slashdot, fix your code or at least hire someone who is competent at it to do it for you.
    3. Re:Just like a cancer by innerweb · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Wow! That smells illegal. I have not followed in as much detail as I need to, but I had a feeling that what was going on was cartelish. For an organization to be allowed to have fiduciary powers over any or all of a non-granting principal's monies and then be allowed to force that principal to pay a fee (extortion?) to collect those monies does not seem even plausibly legal. (IANAL)

      At the very least the RIAA ought to be forced to surrender whatever fees they collect to the parties that have not signed on with the RIAA or be forced to return those unrepresented fees to the ones they collected the fees from. Whatever the outcome, the RIAA ought not have collected those fees in the first place, nor be allowed to keep any of those fees they have collected without permission from the copyright owner.

      Do I sound redundant yet? ;-)

      InnerWeb

      --
      Freud might say that Intelligent Design is religion's ID.
  5. Ha Ha Ha Ha Haaa! by throatmonster · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...the sound of someone laughing - all the way to the bank.

    --
    All pass beyond reach of medicine. None pass beyond the reach of love.
  6. What's not mentioned... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Is that the politicians want their share of shakedown. Has anyone noticed that Microsoft had zero lobbyists in Washington before the anti-trust lawsuit, and they now spend $200 million a year on Washington lobbyists? Internet radio will have to pay the piper.

    1. Re:What's not mentioned... by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Has anyone noticed that Microsoft had zero lobbyists in Washington before the anti-trust lawsuit, and they now spend $200 million a year on Washington lobbyists?


      This is always touted as one of Microsoft's lessons learned - be involved in the government. Part of this is probably due to a belief that the anti-trust lawsuit was a vendetta brought on by more politically savvy sour-grapes competitors. I don't agree. But I do think it was only a matter of time for Microsoft to get involved anyway.

      Microsoft is a large entity with a vested interest in how the market behaves. And the market itself is large enough to touch on almost every aspect of our lives (its what "we" always knew would happen back in the '80s with our little hobbiest microcomputers waxing poetic about the future). With the market so important, Congress is going to get involved eventually... mainly at the prodding of lobbyists from other industries touched by the expanding IT market. It makes sense that Microsoft would decide to have its views put in the ears of Congress as well.

      Does this mean Congress-critters are demanding payouts? I'm not so sure its exactly that (although I would expect it is accurate in some cases). But I am positive you're not going to be well represented if those that would represent your view are unaware of what that view is. Or even worse... people with an opposing view have managed to convince your favorite Congress-critter that reality lines up with their viewpoint (queue this post's theme song).
  7. I wonder what real will do.... by d3ity · · Score: 5, Funny

    I wonder what Real Networks will do if they can't come up with the $200 million dollars they apparently owe... They'll probably stall for time... Buffering...

  8. Only Americans will be silenced by Cafe+Alpha · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Cheer up, the rest of the world will still have freedom on the internet. It's just us Americans who will be regulated out of having any expression.

    We'll still be able to listen to Russian stations.

    Where's you're "In Soviet Russia..." joke now, bitches?

    1. Re:Only Americans will be silenced by cabinetsoft · · Score: 5, Funny

      In Soviet Russian, the radio listens to YOU!
      That ain't funny, that's informative! The radio, the ashtray, the walls...
    2. Re:Only Americans will be silenced by Mistlefoot · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As opposed to the US where it's just the Phone, the TV and your computer.

      Privacy in the US isn't what it was anymore.

  9. Resposible Government, the anti-drug by Smight · · Score: 4, Funny

    Government to SoundExchange: What is this?! Where did you learn to charge these outrageous administrative fees? Was it from all those lawyers I see you hanging around with?

    SoundExchange to Government: I learned it from YOU OK! I learned it by watching you *sob*

    SoundExchange runs out of the room while Government stares into the distance meaningfully.

    --
    IOU one (1) signature
  10. no love lost with Real Networks, BUT - by Ralph+Spoilsport · · Score: 4, Insightful
    the RIAA is simply evil beyond all bounds of reason. I'm surprised that some nutjob asshat hasn't yet barged into their offices and raked 'em all down with machine gun fire. Everything they are doing is so bad and so dangerous to the legacy of the late 20th and early 21st century, it really is criminal.

    While I don't advocate someone blowing their office to flinders with a bomb or some other evil terroristic act, I am surprised that it hasn't happened yet (one would think that with all the loosely bound people in the USA, one of them would have freaked out by now and targeted them...)

    What I DO advocate is that the RIAA and the MPAA and their associated organisations be banned and eliminated and the music and film artists and industry re-organise itself along more open and egalitarian lines.

    RS

    --
    Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
    1. Re:no love lost with Real Networks, BUT - by Jerry+Smith · · Score: 2, Funny

      ...Maybe a bunch of wackos in pirate outfits would storm the place. Serve them right.

      {cough}http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0085959/{/cough }

      --
      All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
    2. Re:no love lost with Real Networks, BUT - by suv4x4 · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'm surprised that some nutjob asshat hasn't yet barged into their offices and raked 'em all down with machine gun fire.

      You're going to jail for this!

      While I don't advocate someone blowing their office to flinders

      Fine, you're off the hook...

      with a bomb or some other evil terroristic act

      That's is: jail time!

      I am surprised that it hasn't happened yet

      Oh ok, you're a fine fella.

      (one would think that with all the loosely bound people in the USA, one of them would have freaked out by now and targeted them...)

      Effin terrorist! JAIL!

      What I DO advocate is that the RIAA and the MPAA and their associated organisations be banned

      Oh, banned. That's cool I guess. ... and eliminated

      Screw it, I'm calling the FBI on ya!!

  11. Re:I'm so conflicted by LighterShadeOfBlack · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Wait a second here... that means whoever ends up getting screwed, I win. Rock On. No I think a more realistic way of looking at it is "Whoever wins... we lose". This situation is a lot like the AvP movie in other ways too: I can't bear to watch this either.
    --
    Spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and stupid comments are intentional.
  12. Re:If you didn't vote Libertarian YOU ASKED FORTHI by bigdavesmith · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...and the conquest of the United States by Mexico.
    If they can get those Cheezy Gordita Crunches down to 99 cents, count me in.
  13. Non-profit spending accounts ? by billcopc · · Score: 3, Interesting

    IANAA (i am not an American), but if SoundExchange is supposed to be a non-profit, doesn't that mean they have to actually spend a significant portion of those funds on whatever issue they're supporting ?

    I know here in Canada, charitable organizations have to spend something like 80% of their income on the cause, with the remaining 20% expected to cover administrative expenses and salaries. I could be wrong on the numbers but it's in the ballpark. There is also a limit on how long an org can sit on their money, so for example they couldn't raise 1 million in a year and siphon off the 20% over five years. If that weren't the case, everyone and their mother would have their own non-profit company as a tax-free retirement account.

    And don't start telling me they're actually paying the artists. They're paying the publishers, the agents, the producers, the "everything up to 11" pop mix "engineer", and of course the lobbyists. Besides, SoundExchange's information is such a market driver that it's in the industry's best interests to have doped and skimmed numbers depending on who they're pushing that particular week.

    --
    -Billco, Fnarg.com
  14. Creative Non-Violent Protest: Don't Effing Pay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think that every company that the CRB says owes them money should simply refuse to pay and force the CRB and Sound Exchange to thereby spend every penny in their coffers litigating against these companies indefinitely. It will not strengthen the resolve of the CRB or SoundExchange to behave in a manner consistent with their decisions, but will force Congress to mediate an action that will be amicable for everyone. Worst case scenario for SoundExchange and CRB: nobody pays them a single penny and they run out of money paying lawyers to sue everyone who eventually files bankruptcy protection to prevent having to pay them. Best hack ever.

  15. Re:dollars $ dollars by 2.7182 · · Score: 5, Funny

    I was walking over to an ATM machine the other day, when I realized that many other people have the same PIN number as me. I thought "they should have a personalized PIN number." Also, my bank still uses those old CRT tubes and they are hard to read, so they really need to upgrade the whole thing. Anyway I went into the bank to sit and talk to a representative about this, and I was reading a DC comic, and the light next to me was flickering. Damn that AC current! I took out my laptop, since I wanted to learn more about CSS style sheets. (Are they under the GPL license btw ?) After about 5 minutes of reading I had a headache - I felt like an ICBM missile had hit my head! Or maybe it was from my LCD display. What I need is a vacation I thought - so I went home and started to pack my SCUBA gear.

  16. Re:dollars $ dollars by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 2, Informative

    You were doing pretty good until the end there. You should've said you were packing your SCUBA apparatus.

    --
    -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
  17. To put this in perspective by Solandri · · Score: 4, Informative

    To put the $1 billion in perspective, the net revenue for all music sales in 2006 in the U.S. reported by the RIAA was only $11.5 billion. That's revenue, not profit.

  18. Is this a prime example of a GetRich Quick scam? by MadJo · · Score: 2

    Is this a prime example of a GetRich Quick scam?
    It really looks that way.

  19. Re:It's sad... by jstomel · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What ever happened to America being the land of freedom and opportunity? The last hundred years.
  20. just use internet media outside USA? by Octavio+Paz · · Score: 2, Insightful

    As the USA and RIAA, etc continue to crush the USA, isn't the most direct remedy
    for the American media consumer to listen to internet radio from provider outside the USA?

    The US GOV and commercial media can certainly herd the mass, though for the computer literate
    it is possible that they go outside USA while sitting at home in USA?

    Either way, the USA is turning into terrible place with much economic stagnation, not to
    mention that general intellect is simply absent there.

  21. The Fee is Per Channel... by Benedick · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The fact that the fee is per channel gets me thinking. At Pandora, I have two defined channels. Those channels introduce me to new music, new artists, perhaps artists not represented by the RIAA. Think about that.

    If Pandora has ten thousand listeners like me, that's twenty thousand stations times $500 per station is ten million dollars. That's probably enough to kill Pandora and any other customizable channel internet radio site. But if the internet radio site only had say five channels, that's only $2,500, easily affordable by a commercial site.

    My conclusion from this little exercise is that the RIAA is out to kill customizable channels. They don't want you to learn about music on your own. They only want you to listen to whatever the latest pop sensation is. They want to eliminate choice and the extra expense of having so many artists. If they can make it so all you ever hear is the generic artist of the moment, that's all you'll know and all you'll buy.

    This is all about control. RIAA wants to make sure they control not just your access to their artists but your ability to discover new artists not under their contracts. Internet radio is a growing force and a growing threat to their ability to pick what music you buy.

    I can only hope that they have overreached; that the huge amount of money involved here makes their motives visible to Congress. And that Congress cares. That sure makes it sound like a lost cause, doesn't it?

  22. Re:dollars $ dollars by Melfina · · Score: 2, Funny

    That would have been redundant. :p

    --
    :3 rawr.