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C.I.A. to Let "Skeletons" Out of its Closet

Posted by CowboyNeal on from the taking-some-heat dept.

sgt_doom writes "The C.I.A. announced it was going to reveal "skeletons" by declassifying hundreds of pages of documents detailing illegal abuses over the years. As a preamble, the National Security Archive at George Washington University released a separate set of documents covering internal government deliberations of the abuses from January 1975. Mandatory reading for all those history-challenged individuals who believe government knows best!"

27 of 235 comments (clear)

  1. I forgot by tomstdenis · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Which country is it without sin?

    Just saying...

    --
    Someday, I'll have a real sig.
    1. Re:I forgot by Dionysus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Which country is it without sin? <sarcasme>Why that makes it all OK then<sarcasme> Especially a country who thinks of itself as the greatest in the world.
      USA! USA! Greatest democracy in the world (when compared to Cuba and Saudi Arabia), greatest living standards (when compared to Bangladesh), greatest freedom (when compared to China), largest (when compared to the Vatican)

      --
      Je ne parle pas francais.
    2. Re:I forgot by enrevanche · · Score: 2, Insightful
      And you point is?

      Are you an apologizer for atrocity?

      "Just saying"? State what it is your implying. Is it that because other countries do bad things that it doesn't matter what yours does?

      The only way things change is by pointing these things out and by being outraged when your country or your country's allies do these things.

    3. Re:I forgot by anmijagy · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Calm down, Disinformed.

      Your post reeks of anti-American propaganda.

      Not all Americans think they're the best in the world, just as America actually (still) is one of the better countries in the world.
      Just as America is the most powerful. And, some would say, the most economically developed.

      The US doesn't have any social nets to catch/elevate falling/underprivileged citizens and it has had governments who wage war entirely too easily.
      Grave, perhaps, but the US has many great qualities, too.

      There's no need to barf your own frustration over the first best thing the medias tell you to hate.

    4. Re:I forgot by CdBee · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Obviously, none of them. It's just that a lot of us were greatly saddened when the nation whose armies liberated Buchenwald concentration camp, invented Guantanamo & Abu Ghraib. Perhaps there's a perception that some spring-cleaning was needed.

      --
      I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
    5. Re:I forgot by superphreak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If it's better somewhere else, feel free to move there. And I'm not automatically assuming that you are an American.

      --
      Evolution is a state-sponsored, state-protected religion.
    6. Re:I forgot by tomstdenis · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's not the point. The point is leave cleaning America to Americans. When your country is perfect you can start pointing your finger at others.

      That others have sinned doesn't justify it, but don't come off as morally superior or something.

      --
      Someday, I'll have a real sig.
    7. Re:I forgot by tomstdenis · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How the fuck did that get insightful? People live fairly well in the states. Yes, there poor, but so what? most people have roofs over their heads and food in their bellies. They're just not mansions and 7 course meals...While the states isn't perfect, I'd much rather live in the states than Cuba, Saudi Arabia, or China.

      And I'm Canadian ;-)

      From my experience, americans think highly of their country, but most fall short at saying "best place in the world." When I worked for AMD I routinely had to visit the states and had occasion to chat it up with my co-workers from California. They often remarked about the good times they had in Europe, Canada, etc. If you asked them if they liked living in the USA they would say yes, and speak positive about it. But don't confuse thinking positive with zealotry. Most educated folk in the USA have been all over the planet and aren't as dillusioned as /. trolls would have you think.

      Tom

      --
      Someday, I'll have a real sig.
    8. Re:I forgot by styrotech · · Score: 4, Insightful

      When your country is perfect you can start pointing your finger at others.


      That's stupid. If we require perfection before being able to point out bad stuff - nobody would be able to speak out at all. Or is that what you want?
    9. Re:I forgot by MaxQuordlepleen · · Score: 4, Insightful
      The point is leave cleaning America to Americans.

      You mean like you guys left cleaning Iraq to the Iraqis? Oh wait...

    10. Re:I forgot by Kelbear · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Hopefully I have just had bad luck in my experiences with Americans, and what you describe is the norm."

      You have, in a sense. You've met the people around you.

      I'm sure everyone here is aware that any sufficiently large group of people loses homogeneity. When you applying it to the entirety of the American population you're going to end up touching on pretty much the entire spectrum of possible characters. Even united with what may seem like a common idealogy, Christianity ranges from frothing-at-the-mouth hatemongers, to socially liberal love-for-everything folks. The group is still a composition of individuals, each with their own schema for value judgement. In any country you have criminals. They are not representative of the larger whole. You also have exceptionally generous, quality people, who are also by definition not representative of the larger whole.

      It's the reason stereotypes are frowned upon. While some may be correct in identifying a larger trend, individual variation makes stereotypes inaccurate until it's functionally useless.

    11. Re:I forgot by tomstdenis · · Score: 2, Insightful

      OH SHUT UP. There are rude, selfish, mean people EVERYWHERE. It's hardly an American trait. You think if I went to Germany and spouted off at the top of my lungs "All Germans are nazis, this country is crap, you all suck, etc..." that I would get an angry mob forming? You think if I went to some random remote location in France that all of the citizens would be people who have traveled the world and know how other cultures are? ...

      I think what you're basing your opinions on is the media, and the fact that there simply is a lot of it in the states. I've been to the states enough to know that for the most part they're decent folk just like anywhere else. They say excuse me when they try to pass in front, sorry when they bump into you, I've even seen them hold doors open for folk. Amazin!!! ...

      --
      Someday, I'll have a real sig.
  2. Re:This is politically motivated by EveryNickIsTaken · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I suspect that some of the stuff that's about to come out will be quite embarrasing to Jimmy Carter. Exactly - He's been riding the talk show circuit and talking a lot of shit lately in order to sell his books. I'm sure he's pissed off enough people with enough power to do something about it.
  3. We're Much Better Now by MrSteveSD · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think the idea is to say, "Oh we were bad back then up until 1975, but since then we've been really nice.". Sadly that isn't true at all. Maybe in 30 years they will be explaining how they were bad up until 2007 with involvement with the murderous contras in the 80s and secret prisons and torture in the "War on Terror" in the 2000s etc.

  4. Re:This is politically motivated by jfengel · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Well, given that Mr. Carter didn't become President until 1977, I don't think the contents of a 1975 report are going to have much on him except under-reporting peanut crops. The Governor of Georgia doesn't get to call out the CIA.

    The other documents cover the "fifties to the seventies", and while that does include the Carter era, that's just the tail end of it. From the description it's largely about the targeting of leftists, and while that may have continued under Carter it sure wasn't his doing.

  5. Why does so much people hate the USA? by ThiagoHP · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Take a look at this article in Wikipedia about the School of the Americas, an USA army institue that for decades taught torture, fear, bounties for enemy dead, false imprisonment, torture, execution, and kidnapping a target's family members to Latin America dictatorships in the 60's, 70's and 80's.

    An excerpt:

    The school has a controversial history of teaching the techniques of torture, and according to UN commissions, many of its graduates have been linked to the most egregious human rights crimes perpetrated in the western hemisphere, who were trained at the school at U.S. taxpayer expense.

    It's not hard to figure out why some many people in Latin America hate the USA and its hipocrisy of allegedly spreading democracy while supporting dictatorships.

    1. Re:Why does so much people hate the USA? by Xenna · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's not the real reason, mate. The real reason people hate the US is that they're rich ansd powerful. Hypocrital and criminal regimes are a dime a dozen (mostly much more hypocritical and criminal) but you can't get more powerful than the US, and that hurts.

      X. (not American)

    2. Re:Why does so much people hate the USA? by Xenna · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Even your trashcans are so big they leave the rest of us in awe!

      X.

  6. Re:History Challenged? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This article is about releasing the secret mis-deeds of the CIA.

    In general, do you think the mis-deeds of the CIA will involved illegal spying on bad corporations to protect the US Public, or will they involve illegal spying to protect the big corporations ?

    Stop and think, buddy.

  7. Re:History Challenged? by hab136 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Mandatory reading for all those history-challenged individuals who believe government knows best!
    As compared to whom? The history challenged individuals who think corporations know best?

    Why do people reduce everything to A versus B? ("false dichotomy") It's not "govt or corps, choose one" - how about they both have good and bad qualities, and we need to reign in BOTH of them so that we can enjoy their good qualities while not suffering their ill effects?

    Corporations allow for pooling of capital to achieve great efficiencies and new products. Abusive corporations can squeeze out competitors, raise prices, and prevent new products from challenging their dominance.

    Government allows for a fair system of law and order. Abuse of governmental authority allow for repression and deprivation of life and liberty.

    Thinking the either govt or business (or even the people) always know best is silly. All three are both right and wrong quite often.
  8. Re:dream on by bigtomrodney · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No they didn't. Schools were funded by the taxes you paid. Just remember that as much as it doesn't seem like it, the government work for you. They don't fund you, you fund them.

    --
    I never get used to these constant resurrections
  9. What about the things being done right now? by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Geez. Everybody knows the CIA has been up to no good. I don't know what a bunch of mild reading is good for. Do they get into their mind control experiments? Or their involvement in the JFK and MLK assassinations? Or any of the really dark stuff? No? Whatever. I don't know what's up with this, but stuff that happened 30 years ago isn't. Plus, they're just the CIA. What about the heads of state? Here's a snippet from an article detailing what's going on right now in full public view. . .

    Sure, you've heard of the Patriot Act, and you know about the NSA warrantless surveillance controversy. Many Americans are cynical about the human rights record of the Bush administration. But, what do you know about these directives and acts Bush signed into law in the past few months -- The John Warner Defense Appropriation Act, The Military Commissions Act, The National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directives? These acts and directives give dictatorial powers to the President of the United States, and leave open the question -- are these guys planning to leave office?

    [. . .]

    Good-bye Habeas

    The United States Military Commissions Act of 2006, (Senate Bill 3930[1]) signed on October 17, 2006, set out to "facilitate bringing to justice terrorists and other unlawful enemy combatants through full and fair trials by military commissions." The Act creates the category of "unlawful enemy combatants," who lack the right of habeas corpus, and traditional protections from torture under the Geneva Conventions. Furthermore, the Act avoids any clear language ensuring that U.S. citizens will not be classified as unlawful enemy combatants. This Act side-steps the traditional protections associated with the judiciary branch. The determination of the status of an individual as an "unlawful enemy combatant" is made by tribunals established under the authority of the President.

    Good-bye Posse Comitatus

    The John Warner Defense Appropriation Act for Fiscal Year 2007 (H.R. 5122.ENR), signed on the same day, allows the President to "...employ the armed forces, including the National Guard in Federal service, to... 1. restore public order and enforce the laws of the United States when... the President determines that,...domestic violence has occurred to such an extent that the constituted authorities of the State or possession are incapable of maintaining public order; 2. suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy..."

    Good-bye Separation of Powers

    The National Security Presidential Directive (NSPD 51), and the Homeland Security Presidential Directive (HSPD-20), signed on May 9, 2007, give special powers to the President in the event of a "Catastrophic Emergency," which means "any incident, regardless of location, that results in extraordinary levels of mass casualties, damage, or disruption severely affecting the U.S. population, infrastructure, environment, economy, or government functions." In such situations, "The President shall lead the activities of the Federal Government for ensuring constitutional government."

    During the Bush presidency these totalitarian laws have arisen. At the same time there has emerged a rising cynicism among the people. There is a hope for a silver lining during oppressive presidencies that at least the people get to see how bad unchecked power abuses are. I once read that when Hitler came to power, the German communists were relieved that at least the people would get the opportunity to see how bad the Nazis were, and would therefore be more likely to vote communist in the next election. But there was no next election. [. . .]

    Article

    It's easy to slip into a little nap and forget what's just around the corner. War with Iran, and either 'terrorist' attacks on U.S. soil, or a U.S. ecconomic collapse, (or both), which pr

  10. Slow Learners by vtcodger · · Score: 3, Insightful
    The CIA et al (There are about two dozen intelligence agencies) really are involved in two quite different jobs. The jobs overlap, but they are different.

    The first job is to try to determine what is going on in foreign countries. Where is Osama bin Laden? (Who the hell knows) Is Iran trying to build a nuclear bomb? (probably) How many ICBMs does China have (not a lot), etc. This is where most of the money goes because it involves a lot of expensive technology.-- satellite photos, communications intercepts, etc. It's hard to object to this except for the issue of at what point the sum cost of getting data exceeds the value of the data. And keep in mind that the value of the data includes the costs of acting on bad data or data that should probably have been available -- about $400 billion so far for the Iraq fiasco alone.

    There is also a covert action component -- the James Bond stuff. This seems to be overwhelmingly attractive to certain overgrown adolescents. The problem is that covert action frequently misfires. On good days, the misfire is harmless. Castro doen't smoke the booby trapped cigar. Sometimes it comes back to haunt us. We overthrow a democratic government in Iran in the 1950s and -- suprise -- our chosen stooge, the Shaw gets pitched out in the 1970s and we find ourselves faced with a theocracy that doesn't much like us.

    These papers seem to deal with the covert stuff and to chronicle what went wrong and (I assume) what went right as well.

    --
    You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
  11. Re:dream on by fyngyrz · · Score: 2, Insightful
    It boggles the mind that anyone thinks that a body made up of the equivalent of pointy-haired bosses would know best.

    Even that is a misconception. "Pointy haired bosses" have accountability; in the end, they must make a profit as a consequence of their choices or the company will fold, because in a commercial enterprise, funds result from sales of a product and/or service, and said sale is at the option of the consumer.

    The government suffers no loss of income, regardless of how poorly they perform. In fact, they often increase their income if they determine that performance is lacking. In the US, that income is taken by coercion (the threat of force, not to mention the occasional use of force) from the populace as income taxes, except of course for those who think that paying income taxes for services not in the general population's best interests is a good thing.

    For instance, paying for an adequate national defense is easily argued to be in the populace's best interests; paying for an expeditionary force that attacks oil-rich countries is not. Paying the salaries of congress-people who make constitutional laws is easily argued to be in the populace's best interests; paying for ex-post facto law, law that abolishes habeas corpus, law that attempts to limit personal, consensual choices and liberties... these are the fruits of a coercive government out of control — argument for them is nonsensical.

    The model for coercive tax-based government is defective with regard to ensuring performance at any level other than the elected personages. Even there, the political parties have created an assembly line of essentially similar candidates. These preserve the status quo of service to big money interests, with the people's interests placed dead last.

    So while you may be entirely justified with regard to your derisive characterization of commercial command structure, just remember that such people do respond to a built-in and ultimately terminal feedback mechanism that the people have control of. This is not the case for government, or at least, the US government, which is the one I am most familiar with.

    How does it go? "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Those who can't teach, enter politics."

    Disclosure: I am both a teacher and a "pointy headed boss" of a series of successful commercial enterprises.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  12. Da Truth! by Brandybuck · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Mandatory reading for all those history-challenged individuals who believe government knows best!

    Also mandatory reading for those conspiracists among you. While you do not believe that goverment knows best, you do believe that government has super-human powers of secrecy, competency and planning. Did the CIA assassinate Kennedy? Did they shoot Reagan to keep him in line? Was the moonshot faked? Was 9/11 and inside job?

    There will be lots of eyebrow-raising information in this collection, but none of it will help the conspiracists. They'll just claim more of the same coverup when they don't find their smoking gun.

    --
    Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
  13. Re:Destined to Repeat It by damian+cosmas · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Mandatory reading for all those history-challenged individuals who believe government knows best!"

    I'm not gonna say the "government knows best", since they have a remarkable tendency to fuck up pretty much everything they get involved in, both foreign and domestic. I am, however, all for "illegal" covert action by the CIA if it's in our National Interest (e.g. secret prisons in East Europe), and have been since well before the "war on terror" started. I'm a child of the Cold War.

    The Geneva Conventions were designed for the times when armies, led by nation-states and wearing uniforms, met on battlefields. The "bad guys" are beheading journalists and civilians on video and dragging mutilated bodies through the streets and you're worried about the US?

  14. Re:This is politically motivated by fluffy99 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    WRONG. Under the Executive Order, the govt is required to review documents after 30 years. The classification of the documents are either then automatically downgraded (could go from Secret to Confidential), they are destroyed, or they fall under one of many exceptions (for example we have ships older than 30-years). The intent of the Executive Order was not about giving the public access but rather to force the agencies to shrink their classified inventories. The reality is that nothing truly important gets revealed to the public. Nothing classified is ever released via the Freedom of Information Act.