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PopCap Distressed Over 'CopyCat' Games
GamesIndustry.biz, in an interview with PopCap Games chief creative officer Jason Kapalka, reports that the company is apparently a bit miffed at 'imitation games'. Puzzle games being what they are, Kapalka finds the number of Bejewel-like titles on the market frustrating. "Very few games are developed without reference to past games. There's always going to be titles that build on a previous mechanic or game. But there's a fine line between that and very bold-faced rip-offs that aren't adding anything to the game and are just trying to make a quick buck." Over at 1up, editor Ray Barnholt points out that PopCap is a funny company to be making that claim. Several of that group's most popular games are in turn tweaks or imitations of little-known Japanese puzzle titles from the 90s.
Boy it runs thick within this story.
as long as they don't start dragging people into court - they are entitled to 'feel' however they want about it.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
I'm not sure if the copying their refering to is flat out copying, or say, the same game with a slightly tweaked look or rules to it, or if somebody is taking the base idea and improving off of it Personally, I don't see a problem with using an idea of something that works in your own product, using a sucessful idea and building off it encourages market competition, and helps to create a better product for the consumer, so i dont see why popcap is angry if somebody is using their base ideas (which it sounds like werent even theirs) to create something "new and improved" the only thing they'd be angry about is losing their market, and if that is so, they should quit complaining and work on developing something better
http://www.darkshire.net/jhkim/rpg/copyright/cases /allen_vs_academicgames.html
"Here, Allen has not shown that it is possible to distinguish the
expression of the rules of his game manuals from the idea of
the rules themselves. Thus, the doctrine of merger applies and
although Allen may be entitled to copyright protection for the
physical form of his games, he is not afforded protection for
the premises or ideas underlying those games. To hold other-
wise would give Allen a monopoly on such commonplace
ideas as a simple rule on how youngsters should play their
games."
For what it's worth, Puzzle Quest (a Bejeweled-engine RPG) is absolutely brilliant, and definitely constitutes real innovation. It's a real upgrade, and very clever.
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
Its extremely rare to find anything original in games/movies/music these days.
Maybe he should stop crying and try working harder.
That's really the way the game industry has always been - you saw something in life that was frustrating or annoying, then tried to make it into a game. Then someone else would see your game and make something similar, but yet remove some things they didn't like and have the creativity to add some things that were new.
There were always "clone-makers" who would just make identical copies or make game development kits (pinball was the favourite one) but these were always restricted to what they saw, and would always fade away once the next title with new features was out.
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
Ray Barnholt points out that PopCap is a funny company to be making that claim. Several of that group's most popular games are in turn tweaks or imitations of little-known Japanese puzzle titles from the 90s.
So what? Microsoft has been making the same sort of statements for the get go (that people are stealing their works yada-yada) while at the same time copying/stealing/buying work from others, to the point that most of their product lines was never developped in-house. People are used to Microsoft, why not from other companies ? The old saying "you shouldn't criticize someone's body odor if you didn't shower yourself" somehow never seems to apply to companies...
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
FTFS:
Over at 1up, editor Ray Barnholt points out that PopCap is a funny company to be making that claim. Several of that group's most popular games are in turn tweaks or imitations of little-known Japanese puzzle titles from the 90s.That's hilarious. One of PopCap's best-known games, Dynomite, is a direct ripoff of Taito's Puzzle Bobble, one of the best-known (and -loved) puzzle games of all time. It's not a very good one, either. It's "cheap", in that if the timer runs out while the animation for removing eggs from lines that would save you is playing, you lose (among various similar failings.)
PopCap can stick their whining about ripoffs right up their hypocritical, untalented asses.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Then I RTFA. The original interview, not the one linked to.
The Popcap rep actually says this: "There are a couple of Bejeweled variants like Jewel Quest that have carved out there own niche but it hasn't caused a huge problem for us."
He then goes on to express a concern about indies copying each other. Not about it impacting PopCap's bottom line, but about the Indie industry as a whole. Specifically, he says this about other developers: They think they can do a quick knock-off to help pay the bills and then they can work on their big magnum opus but that rarely happens. Once they start down that road of making rip-off games you never make a huge fortune off it and you end up working hand to mouth. They don't have time to work on larger projects that take a risk. And that has a negative effect on the industry as a whole. It should be a really creative opportunity to have a small team that has the luxury of creating whatever it wants and getting to market without the usual cumbersome problems that come from publishers and other factors. The casual space should be encouraging a huge amount of creative design but there's a lot of imitation and that's a shame. Translation: If you make copies to make a quick buck, all you're ever going to make are quick copies. Try to improve upon formulas and show some originality in your games.
That's all he said. Really.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Popcap, I believe some of these may apply to you.
...
- What's good for the goose, is good for the gander.
- That's the pot calling the kettle black.
- What comes around goes around.
- You reap what you sow.
- A stitch in time, saves nine.
- Whoever smelt it, dealt it.
- Whoever made the rhyme, did the crime.
-
- Profit!!!
"Now I'm seriously serious!" - Serious Sam
He'd like to tell you you're black...
Ask not what you can do for your country. Ask what your country did to you
He said it's time you deal with "The Jackals" the same way he did, make a lot of different games, fast...
I'm surprised that PopCap hasn't gone for securing some kind of software patent on their puzzle games. Granted, the patent may not be particularly valid, given that there's very little new content in the puzzle gaming world, however, the existence of the patent would certainly be enough to scare off other small developers.
We all know what to do, but we don't know how to get re-elected once we have done it
Exactly. And casual game producers/publishers like Popcap, Big Fish Games, Reflexive, etc. are some of the worst offenders when it comes to copying gameplay. A few years ago it was Bejeweled match-3 clones. Now it's hidden object games like the Mystery Case Files series. Casual gamers are buying them hand over fist, so you can't blame the companies. And small developers can make a (admittedly small) fortune by turning out derivative games that take a few months to develop.
I do enjoy some of the weird sites like Casual Explosion that have popped up to review these derivative games, however...
Okay, back to work making my own derivative hidden object game. (Seriously.)
I actually manage the opposite. I very frequently get 5 move combos based on watching how things are lining up and using the right abilities at the right time.
Early on in the game I was upset that the AI seemed to always get the right drops, but then I got better at predicting the likelyhood of particular drops and that helped a lot. Also if the enemy never gets a turn then they can't beat you. When the board is ready for a massive clear be sure to use stun, web, etc. Then take moves to set up the big combo while the enemy is incapacitated.
My biggest gripe is the random number generator seeds the same when you turn on the device. I have the first dozen moves memorized to maximize the number of combos I get. Then I have enough mana to win the board unless it is a really special enemy. Seeding the board based on the current time would make each one more distinct. As it is the first game is just a warm up for my fingers.
Heck I think the capture game is the most fun. I wish there were more "new variations" like that and less random bejeweled battles. The places they innovate they do so well.
Moral of the story: Games are built on experiences including other games. PopCap needs to remember this a grow up.
BTW, does anyone remember the game? It was on Athena back in the day.
for blatent copyright issues... the guy that made Tetris is now old and ready to enter full Retirement... He needs a nice retirement fund, and this could be one way for him to get it.
I guess someone should point out that Bejeweled is a clone of Pogo's Sweet Tooth?
-Kinsey
There was a guy who made a Lemmings clone. Psygnosis contacted him and asked him to take off his game from the web.
This is something I don't understand - no more lemmings games have been produced - why does the company want to take off a game that doesn't take any sales away from them?
disney's a company that mines almost all of its ideas from the public domain, but also a company that repeatedly has new copyright laws made to prevent any of their characters from ever entering the public domain. hypocrites all.
Popcap doesn't have a lot of room to cry here. Talismania is certainly an imitation of or at least highly derivative of the old Atari 5200 game Zenji. And, Super Collapse 3 certainly seems a lot like Breakout. Maybe I just don't understand the finer points of corporate whining.
Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
I dont see why popcap is angry if somebody is using their base ideas (which it sounds like werent even theirs) to create something "new and improved"
Of course they are angry because they are afraid it means they will be making less money. They want to prevent people from producing products similar to theirs, in order to ensure that they are the only source of the product.
Unfortunately for them, their product is not a substance, but an idea. Ideas don't work like substances. Just looking at a car doesn't instantly give you car-parts to distribute, but it does instantly give you an idea for a car design. The parts can be easily controlled, but the idea can't.
This is a nice example of why the whole concept of intellectual property is such a farce. When is an idea a different idea? How many tweaks must be made? It is not possible to define absolute boundaries for this sort of thing, because ideas just don't work that way.
The better response is to use ideas in a manner that befits how they work, rather than expecting to make money off an attempt at using ideas in a way that does not suit their natures, and trying to force everyone in the world to pretend that ideas work the way you think they should.
Yeah, let's go for gameplay patents! There're too many Tetris clones on the wild as it is!
Dear PopCap,
I own a couple of your games and can honestly state they do not seem very original. For instance, I have seen a multitude of games similar to Bejeweled for years. Take a look in family arcades and bar-top arcade systems, jewel + puzzle games of this style have been around for about 15 years longer than Pop-cap has been in business.
It is very tempting to go through my MAME screenshot repository and find games PopCap did that look like older arcade titles, then begin sending email to each of these companies to make their own determination if PopCap is, in fact, the real copy-catter.
Anyone else with a library of screens for MAME, feel free to join in. If we could get PC to drop one game over a lawsuit, we'll never hear such dribble out of them again!
While PopCap might be the wrong company to make statements about copying ideas, they make a valid point. Casual and Indie games have been touted as bringing innovation to a stale market, yet most seem to be using the same tactic as the major companies - copy what works. Where are the innovators of the 80's and 90's - it seems there were so many different genres and ideas then?
Note to self: Stop putting jokes in my insightful comments so I can get something other than +1 Funny!
Copyright law doesn't extend to the rules of a game, just the artwork, etc. - the "tangibles."
For the disbelievers, here's what the U.S. Copyright oOfice has to say about games:
You can make your own version of Bejeweled, right down to the name. You can't copy the logo artwork (they can register the logo) or the game images - you're on your own there. Popcap ought to pop a few 'ludes before they pop a gasket.
Kevin Smith on Prince
Indie and casual game designers are discussing the Popcap interview at great length at the Indie Gamer forums. As I remarked there, many people have observed that the current syndrome of blatant, rampant plagiarism is dangerous to the casual game market's long-term health -- and whenever someone does observe this, the plagiarizers move immediately to smear that speaker's reputation. By demonstrating the speaker isn't a pure and saintly exemplar of all things holy, the plagiarizers believe they prove their arrant plagiarism represents no danger to the market. It's nothing but an unhelpful and short-sighted diversionary tactic.
I wrote about the cloning phenomenon in The Escapist issue #34, "Attack of the Parasites."
when they start charging more reasonable prices for their games.. 20 bucks is too much for a little puzzle game. at 5 bucks a pop I wouldn't feel like i'm getting ripped off.
I can go to the local store's bargain bin and get year old games for 20 bucks.. this is a 5 MB download..
PopCap are the ones copying games from other companies and now they're angry they're being copied in return?
Keep in mind that Zuma is a copy of Puzz Loop, Bejeweled is a copy of xjewel, etc.
That's either priceless, funny or just really sad.
This would be interesting coming from Valve, or Id or Blizzard or any of the companies that has truly expanded their individual genres through technological advances, or radical re-thinking of gameplay and strategy.
But Popcap? They make puzzle games that are derivatives of Tetris, and their games are better suited for widgets and free downloads than they are as stand alone titles.
For Popcap to whine about "copycats" would be like Bethesda complaining about all the other swords and sorcery RPG's out there. Not only are they pretending they invented the genre, but they're pretending they're the genre's leaders.
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