Open Source Linux Phone Goes On Sale

An anonymous reader writes "Sean Moss-Pultz has just announced on the OpenMoko mailing list that the Neo1973 is finally available for purchase. OpenMoko.com is now taking orders via credit card. OpenMoko intends to 'free your phone' through a hardware-independent and open source user interface backed by the Linux kernel. This device could very well stand as a competitor to the more expensive Apple iPhone, but at a fraction of the price and with no vendor lock-in. Although the devices in this release cycle (GTA01) are mainly intended for developers, the up-and-coming devices targeted to the consumer market (GTA02) will also feature WiFi capabilities, a 3D acceleration unit, and 256MB of on-board flash. Both units will use the MicroSD card interface for removable storage and have USB client / host capabilities. For a full feature list, check out OpenMoko.com or the OpenMoko Wiki."

Comments

Awesome

[nicolas.kassis]

I really want a linux phone. It's pretty cheap at 300$. One thing bothers me, do providers allow random phones to be used on there network? Do some cellular providers block phones that they don't approve off?

Re:Awesome

[Nossie]

do providers allow random phones to be used on there network?

yes, thats what an unlocked phone is....

as to your question about blocking phones...
if the imei number is correct and its FCC approved I doubt they would have any reason to block you

Re:Awesome

[epall]

Yes! I'm pretty sure T-Mobile is chill with you sticking your SIM in any phone you want.

Re:Awesome

[hunterkll]

Replying to an AC isn't the brightest thing to do but....

ATT/Cingular and T-Mobile are the only two major GSM carriers in the United States.

The others are usually all CDMA carriers and the phones are completely incompatable on the network technology level.

and re those vzw phones with sim cards, it was either RIMM cards or sim cards for overseas usage of the phone, they serve no use on the continental US side of the pond

Re:Awesome

[supersat]

AFAIK, only T-Mobile and AT&T use GSM in the United States. Everyone else uses CDMA (with the exception of Nextel, which uses iDEN). I think Verizon might offer GSM/CDMA combo phones for use outside their coverage area, but since GSM is not what they run on their own network, they won't let you use a pure GSM phone.

Re:Awesome

[Anonymous Coward]

She told me you were out of credit.

Re:Awesome

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, ... I originally wrote this post. I should have specified that it's a GSM phone. I'm in Germany at the moment and I don't think CDMA phones exist here, and they've gone out of style quite quickly in Canada too (where I"m originally from).

Bottom line:

If you're using a GSM phone with a removable SIM card, and you purchased a phone with a) no vendor lock-in, and b) no SIM lock-in, then you can literally use the phone anywhere on the planet just by popping in the SIM card of a different provider. SIM lock-in occurs when vendors program a handset only to accept SIM cards with their signature. Vendor lock-in occurs when the cell phone manufacturer allows the vendor to program a certain code into the phone, so that it will absolutely not pick-up a signal when the vendor's signal is not in range, whether you are using a card from that vendor or not.

CDMA handsets I believe are really only in use in Korea and North America, no?

Why am I interested in OpenMoko?

I recently experienced what a nightmare this can be (especially with the cost of newer handsets these days). Originally, I was holding out for getting a motorola C113, but since they don't want anyone in 1st world countries to use them, i settled for a fully-featured and quite expensive Nokia which I bought in Germany (no vendor / SIM lock-in). That was stolen ;-) . Then I managed to get a free handset with 'points' I accumulated with my old provider. I vowed the next time I purchase a phone, there is no way I'm doing so unless I can monitor where it is and what phone number / person is using it at all times. I realize that some providers provide this service to their customers, but not all.

In short, I'm going to write some software to do this for me, and the OpenMoko is the best place to start in my opinion.

Re:Awesome

[MajinBlayze]

As long as your network uses GSM. If you are on Sprint (like me) you need to change carriers

Re:Awesome

[enjo13]

Not true. An unlocked phone is simply one that allows the operation (phone side) given any standard IMSI. The operators, however, require any phone on their network to be certified by the carrier. They will not allow a 'rogue' (their words not mine) phone onto their networks. Most carriers will allow any GSM Forum Certified phone to work... but the phone has to formally achieve certification to do that.

I have no idea how the project in the article intends to do that, or if the telephony side is based on already certified hardware/sofwtare. Just clarifying that simply having a GSM implementation, however, is not enough.

Re:Awesome

[terrymr]

Most devices are based on already certified standard GSM modules. You can buy the bare GSM stuff to build into your own project.

Re:Awesome

[dacarr]

Good question. I do this for a living for the data side.

Short version: $gsm_carrier can provide the settings, but while it usually works, it's not guaranteed to work, and they don't acutally support the phone.

Long version is like this - as long as $gsm_phone is unlocked, then $gsm_carrier can usually get it working without too much effort, and will talk you, the user, through the process - but it comes with no guarantee that it will actually work on the network. Some phones have odd quirks, and don't always work. Voice is usually no big issue, and my understanding is something like "just add SIM card and a few button presses, and it'll Just Work" - but, since data and voice are effectively two different parts of any GSM network (and I do data only), I could be wrong. For data, you will have to provide the data service gateway (usually an IP address), an access point name, and a MMS center for multimedia messaging. Either way, if the phone still doesn't want to work, you'll need to call $gsm_phone_maker for help.

Re:Awesome

[norton_I]

To be fair, the things that are included in the "advanced" kit are development boards and a fancy carrying case, along with some duplicate components like memory cards and USB cables which you can probably pick up cheaper elsewhere.

The base kit looks like it has everything you would need or want for a user or software developer. The advanced kit is for hardware hackers.

The consumer version is going to be $450 for the base model, though it has wifi and a bunch of other neato hardware added.

The real reason it looks expensive is that it comes unlocked. If you could get a $150 rebate on a cell phone contract if you bought your own handset, suddenly it would look a lot more favorable compared to other smart phones.

Gill Bates

[Tablizer]

But does it run Windows? (ducks)

Oh, the Slashdot fads

[The One and Only]

Out: iPhone.
In: Open Source iPhone Killer.

Re:Oh, the Slashdot fads

[Skuld-Chan]

There's something to this - Apple store employee told my friend that the iphone would work with his cell network (Edge Wireless - AT&T doesn't exist in his area...). Anyhow it doesn't work with his sim card. Reading more on the net it seems that Apple built in some software that checks for a special AT&T sim card. (yeah the iphone went back)

Forget the sealed batteries, non upgradable memory - to me perma-locking the phone into AT&T is the biggest crime about the iphone and I think should be grounds for an anti-trust suite. Maybe open phones are in?

If Microsoft had done this with a killer phone everyone had to have (yes - I know they don't have one...) everyone on Slashdot would be crying bloody murder.

Re:Oh, the Slashdot fads

[The One and Only]

Everyone on Slashdot is crying bloody murder, particularly you. That's what makes the comments to these articles so tedious to read.

Re:Oh, the Slashdot fads

[illumin8]

Apple store employee told my friend that the iphone would work with his cell network

I call BS. It has been well advertised for months now that AT&T was the only network that an iPhone would work on. Anyone that expected it to be any different was misinformed, and I find it hard to believe that an Apple store employee would spread this misinformation.

iPhone killer

[roye]

This thing is great. Once the kids see the flashy colors, carry bag and stylus, they will drop the iPhone in droves! It looks like an interesting project. Competition is good, but I have a feeling that an "open" phone will get the OMGTerrorists!!1! label from AT&T in partnership with Motororla. I hope this one gets off the ground.

What a deal!

[BlakeReid]

FTA:

Direct from openmoko.com, the price will be $450 for the Neo Base and $600 for Neo
Advanced.

Hard to tell from the press release which mass market (GTA02) model (if either) is really close to feature parity with the iPhone, but if you compare the two top end models, the price is the same.

This device could very well stand as a competitor to the more expensive Apple iPhone, but at a fraction of the price and with no vendor lock-in.

If by fraction you mean 1/1, I guess so.

Re:What a deal!

[Anonymous Coward]

Um... the prices listed on the website are $300 for the phone, and $450 for the phone with a development kit (looks like the phone just comes in a fancy case... and something else)...

Re:What a deal!

[lixee]

Hard to tell from the press release which mass market (GTA02) model (if either) is really close to feature parity with the iPhone, but if you compare the two top end models, the price is the same.

Nonesense. The Neo Advanced is not a top end model. It's the exact same unit that come in a nicer package and with all kinds of gadgets for the hacker in you. You can't possibly call the inclusion of debugboards and other JTAG cables as making a "top end model". It makes no sense.
If you really wanna compare the Neo Advanced with the iPhone, you'll have to include the many billions of dollars you'll have to give Apple so that they give you some of the iPhone's IPs.
Oh, and did I mention the Neo's got built-in GPS? Imagine a world where the freaking phones switch into silent mode when you enter a theater.

Re:What a deal!

[mrchaotica]

You seem knowledgable, so I'll ask you: does the OpenMoko include PIM apps? And, just as importantly, does it synchronize with anything (hopefully e.g. KDE PIM at the least, but bonus points for Apple's iSync...)?

Re:What a deal!

[pturing]

They're discounting this edition of the phone since it's for developers and doesn't have all the bits. Here's a quote from the openmoko mailing list:

The delays have been expensive for us and annoying for you. We've
decided that instead of setting up a complicated return or tracking
system to remember who gets a discount for GTA02, we going to give you
_all_ a discount on GTA01.

We're going to sell the Neo Base for $300. The Neo Advanced will be
$450.

GTA02 (AKA: The Mass Market Neo 1973) is on schedule to go on sale in
October. It will have the following new hardware components:

  * 802.11 b/g WiFi
  * Samsung 2442 SoC
  * SMedia 3362 Graphics Accelerator
  * 2 3D Accelerometers
  * 256MB Flash

We will sell this device through multiple channels. Direct from
openmoko.com, the price will be $450 for the Neo Base and $600 for Neo
Advanced.

Re:What a deal!

[kwalker]

I'll just jump in here, since I've been following this project for months now.

Yes, the OpenMoKo platform includes PIM apps (Based on the EDS-embedded platform from O-hand). It's still in its infancy (They have been focusing on the hardware up to this point), but it's there, and will be rapidly advancing in the next few months. And one of the things they've been working on is a SyncML interface to sync the OpenMoKo PIM apps with anything that can speak SyncML. There will probably have to be an iSync backend written if it doesn't have a generic SyncML one already.

An interface called "Shake"?

[jx100]

The inclusion of a 3D accelerometer intrigues me. I'm guessing/hoping there are plans to integrate this into some sort of user interface. An interface designed at least partially around physically moving the unit would be great to have on something as small as a cellphone, as it would reduce the need for thumb-typing or any other kind of extreme dexterity

Re:An interface called "Shake"?

[PMBjornerud]

An interface designed at least partially around physically moving the unit would be great to have on something as small as a cellphone, as it would reduce the need for thumb-typing or any other kind of extreme dexterity I got this mental image of someone using their phone to hammer morse-codes against a concrete wall...

Opnemoko versus iPhone

[hoppy]

There is an interesting comparison between the OpenMoko and the iPhone. The iPhone hardware gives more power but may be the openness of the OpenMoko can provide better user experience with adaptability lacking in the iPhone ?
  http://aptustech.com/?q=node/9

Can the Openmoko challenge the iPhone ? Does the opensource philosophy can overcome one of the best designed phone ?

Re:Opnemoko versus iPhone

[Ohreally_factor]

Well, in some Spanish speaking countries, moco is slang for snot or sperm, so this is going to go over really well there.

As for the phone and its OS, never say never. They might be after the niche slashdot-type market at first. If and when it gets a UI with enough polish and ease-of-use it might have a chance in the mass market. And it stands to benefit from Apple blowing the smartphone market wide open. The iPhone is going to make smart phones popular among "regular" people. I think this improves rather than hurts the chances of Openmoko to succeed.

I see some mutual benefit between projects like Openmoko and the iPhone as well. Adoption of either is going to help push for adoption of open web standards (Death to Flash!! and other proprietary bullshit).

Re:Opnemoko versus iPhone

[shilly]

The parent isn't suggesting there's no reason for the name. The parent is suggesting that the reasoning behind the name is stupid. If the phone is going to sell to the consumer electronics mass market, there's no point giving it a name looking back 33 years and with all the appeal of "cowpat 3.2". Or in having two names. Neo1973 / openmoko appears to be a great demonstration of why brand management is on the list of Things That Should Not Be Developed as an Open Source Project.

2.5G GSM?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure that will count this phone out for a lot of people here, for the same reason as the iPhone.

http://www.openmoko.com/products-neo-base-00-stdki t.html

The Neo 1973 boasts the following hardware specifications
2.8" VGA TFT color display
Touchscreen, usable with stylus or fingers
266HZ Samsung System on a Chip (SOC)
USB 1.1, switchable between Client and Host (unpowered)
Integrated AGPS
2.5G GSM - quad band, voice, CSD, GPRS
Bluetooth 2.0
Micro SD slot
High Quality audio codec

Re:2.5G GSM?

[Chandon Seldon]

For those of you who really think that the difference between 2.5G and 3G is a deal breaker, I'd like to point something out:
Unless you are going to hook the phone up to your computer and use it as a modem, the difference doesn't matter. You've got a 2" screen with a relatively low resolution - even crappy video streaming will run over 2.5G (poorly, but who watches video on their phone anyway?).

If you could do VOIP or something over 3G that might make it matter, but the latency for cellular internet access is so horrible that it's not worth it. On my 3G Sprint (PowerVision) phone, I've never seen my ping get lower than 500ms - and I've even written midlets to test it.

Maybe 4G will matter, but the difference between 2.5G and 3G is *nothing* relevant for any phone usage pattern I can come up with. Even MP3 downloads are fast enough on 2.5G.

Re:2.5G GSM?

[Helix150]

first- evdo Rev. A pings are much better- I usually get 150-250ms on my sprint aircard. It's good enough for VoIP without a problem.

That said, I want to challenge the idea that EDGE -> UMTS makes no difference on a PDA. It makes a difference, although not much of one for 'mobile web sites'.
If you are on google mobile with stripped down xhtml pages you may not notice the EDGE much. However if you are surfing 'normal' web pages that get resized on the PDA, it makes a big difference. If you are streaming media, it makes a huge difference. If you want to stream media while surfing any web pages, it makes a huge difference.

I have tested an EDGE device (T-Mobile MDA (HTC Wizard)) against an EVDO device (Sprint ppc6700 (HTC Apache)) and another EVDO device (Sprint Mogul (HTC CDMA Titan)), I can tell you even surfing is night and day. Surfing mobile sites on EDGE is usable, surfing normal sites on EDGE is very painful (30sec load times for some fancier pages).
On an EVDO device however, mobile web sites are notably faster than EDGE and even most normal websites start to render in under 5 seconds, usably finished in under 10 most of the time. It just doesn't happen on EDGE.

Also on an EVDO device you can stream mp3's while surfing and still get usable audio...

and lastly what about slingplayer or other mobile video? Don't even bother on edge.

Re:Sounds great, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

From a manufacturing standpoint FIC is a fairly recognizable company. But yes, they are mostly familiar with the manufacturing side of things for companies like Sony who then markets the hell out of it.

Regardless, every OSS developer with a mobile phone should be switching to this device. It is everything we have been asking for in terms of good corporate citizenship toward the open source community. Everything is open. Hardware specifications, source, direct contact with developers, community sites, everything. Once we all get on board only good things can follow.

Everyone vs. iPhone

[Nastard]

Apple won the market on music players by providing an extremely easy way to manage your collection and sync your device. Call it flashy advertising or a fashion statement if it helps you to feel better about your electronics purchase, but simplicity and interface are key. Same goes for the iPhone. You can shout "features" until you're blue in the face -- and there are plenty who will agree with you and stay away from the iPhone for that reason -- but I've never seen a communications device that makes contact and calendar syncing so easy (bonus: it happens through the already-popular iTunes).

This smacks of the same sort of complaint-response attitude that drives the also-ran category in the music player market. Sure, it's open. Sure, it has features that everyone claims to need. Sure, it has a vaguely iPhone-ish interface. Wake me when it syncs with iTunes and automatically pulls my contacts, music, movies, TV shows, and calendar.

Re:Everyone vs. iPhone

[dfghjk]

"Apple won the market on music players by providing an extremely easy way to manage your collection and sync your device."

You may attribute their success to anything you want, but it's just not that simple.

"Call it flashy advertising or a fashion statement if it helps you to feel better about your electronics purchase, but simplicity and interface are key."

Yeah, that's always said yet it's not clear how much more simple Apple's products were to provide that "key" differentiation. Funny how the interface that was so inherently superior in the iPod was abandoned entirely in the iPhone yet the iPhone is now praised for it's "simplicity". The fact is that whatever Apple's product is at any given time is claimed to be the standard by which everything is judged. That's called fanboyism.

"...but I've never seen a communications device that makes contact and calendar syncing so easy..."

Then you haven't been looking. Contact and calendar syncing is a trivial process with every smartphone. Palm was doing it for years prior to the iPhone and they are, frankly, the gold standard, not Apple. The iPhone is exactly as easy and no easier to sync than the last several smartphones I've owned.

"Wake me when it syncs with iTunes and automatically pulls my contacts, music, movies, TV shows, and calendar."

And that comment smacks of the same Apple-elitist mentality that defines everything in the market by what Apple does. If iTunes is required, no one but Apple can succeed. Syncing a smartphone through a media jukebox application is totally counterintuitive yet no one comments on that.

I can make a lot of claims regarding what other products do that the iPhone doesn't. Funny that you don't concern yourself with any of that. Apparently, all that's important to you is precisely what the iPhone does. Wonder why that is? Can the iPhone sync its SMS messages to its host computer? Can it archive it's IM conversations? Oh yeah, it doesn't even do IM.

Re:Everyone vs. iPhone

[Shihar]

Apple does two things extremely well.

1) It really, truly, and honestly does marketing well. Apple fans will swear up and down that that has nothing to do with it, but they are deluding themselves. Apple does marketing in a way that few other consumer electronics even begin to contemplate. Whoever the hell is running Apple's marketing campaign needs an extra zero or two tacked on to the end of his salary. I am not saying that Apple doesn't make a good product, but Apple isn't the only company to make a good lap top or MP3 player in the history of mankind... but they are the only ones to market it with so much success. Apple is a marketing god that lays waste it its enemies with fiery bolts of marketing d00m.

2) Apple locks down their products and creates slick interfaces. If you look at the competition against Apple (and this goes for all of their devices, from phones to computers to MP3 players), Apple uses the same strategy. They bust out workable hardware that is more or less about par for the industry, wrap it in a shiny case that was designed by marketers who know what a human eye likes instead of engineers, and then spend a good long time working on slick software that is tied to the hardware. The actual electronics are generally nothing to write home about. The shinny case developed by marketers who actually know what humans like to look at is helpful, but this still is not terribly remarkable. There have been other pretty devices in the history of humanity that have failed. The software is what really completes the package. Apple takes complete control over what goes in and out of the device by exerting a great deal of control over the both the software and hardware of the package.

You see this with the iPod. You use Apple hardware to hook up, and then use Apple software to load up (yes, I realize you don't HAVE to use iTunes, but 99% of the people do). The result is that Apple has control over almost the entire process and can make sure it actually works. If you look at other MP3 devices, they tend to let go of control when it comes to the software. They either don't have the software expertise to build a slick (or even workable) software interface and instead build a bad one, or the rely on a third party that is usually accommodating more then one MP3 player to be the portal in. Things are better today in the non-Apple MP3 market as other companies have caught up, but Apple has already eaten their breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

The advantage the iPhone is going to have, despite all of the things that irritate me about it, is that Apple is going to be the first to lock down the phone with a complete software and hardware package. Further, they are taking it a step further and even specifying the carrier so that they have control over that too. This is just classic Apple at work. Grab as much control as possible and sacrifice third party software/hardware/carrier to provide a standardized, controlled, (and as a result) stable package. Apple isn't selling these phones as open phones not because they couldn't convince Best Buy to sell an open iPhone, but because gobbling up as much control as is practical is how Apple operates. Are you really going to notice or care that the iPhone has a hard time communicating with non-Apple products or that AT&T can't slap on their standard cell phone OS?

So, this open phone Vs the iPhone? Eh, I put my money on the iPhone. As much as I might not touch the thing with a ten foot pole (I don't mind switching between devices and padding my ass with a pile of the cashI saved... not to mention not selling my soul to AT&T), Apple is going to win a fair hunk of the market in the end. Coming into the market with control over the software, hardware, and carrier means that Apple is able to offer up an integrated device that the cell phone market has seen very little off. Thrown into the mix some Apple marketing divine intervention, and you have a winner. So, grab the Linux phone if that tickles your fancy (it tickles mine), but I wouldn't invest any money in that company.

Ha. Ha. Ha.

[suv4x4]

This device could very well stand as a competitor to the more expensive Apple iPhone, but at a fraction of the price and with no vendor lock-in.

Oh yea, because, you see, iPhone is selling like crazy because it has a big touch screen!

It's *marketing* people. To reach the masses, you need a clear message, a clear brand and a clean hyped up release.

iPhone, by Apple, at 6PM, in all Apple and AT&T stores. Clear enough, right?
What does it do? iPod, Browser, Phone, Maps, YouTube.

Neo1912324, running OpenMoko, released just for developers for now and later for I don't know who and later maybe for everyone. For sale now in some places, if you can find it. What does it do? It's got advanced features running on Linux and is unlocked.

Normal people will see absolutely nothing in that phone, never mind how we, geeks, are salivating at it, if the marketing and branding effort is so weak. Sorry.

Re:Ha. Ha. Ha.

[nanosquid]

Hundreds of apps doesn't make me buy. I buy because someone communicates to me the ONE (or few) apps

Everybody does. And everybody has different apps that matter to them. That's why having lots of apps matters.

And let me tell you - it's a vicious cycle. If the phone isn't attractive to mainstream, developers won't develop mainstream apps for it, and mainstream won't buy it.

Ah, yes, and Linux will never work because nobody will develop software for it, right? Current phones (including the iPhone) come with so little software that is so limited that the bar is really low. Most of the so-called mainstream developers are fixing bugs and omissions in the base OS, something OpenMoko doesn't need.

OpenMoko costs $450/$600. You can get a Symbian/WinMobile smart phone with open API for less than that.

OpenMoko costs $300 with a 640x480 screen and GPS (the $450 and $600 include development hardware, something that costs thousands of dollars from other vendors). There is no Symbian or WinMobile that comes even close. In fact, the only other 640x480 phone is a brick. $300 will barely get you the lowest end Symbian phone unlocked (the E50). And Symbian is not exactly open or standard and a pain to develop for (I've tried).

Re:Ha. Ha. Ha.

[linuxrocks123]

> OpenMoko costs $300 with a 640x480 screen and GPS (the $450 and $600 include development hardware, something that costs thousands of dollars from other vendors).

As much as I like the OpenMoko, this statement is somewhat deceptive.

The pricing for the Neo1973 direct from OpenMoko.com is as follows:

Now:
$300 -- base phone with 266MHz ARM processor, 128MB RAM, and no WiFi
$450 -- same phone + hardware development kit

The phone sold now is intended for developers only and is not marketed for mainstream (but you can still get it if you want, of course).

October:
$450 -- base phone with 400MHz ARM processor, 256MB RAM, and built-in Atheros WiFi
$600 -- same phone + hardware development kit

In contrast, the iPhone is either $500 or $600 depending on the model. You're locked to AT&T, don't get a GPS (which comes with the Neo1973), but you do get a camera (which doesn't come with the OpenMoko). Who knows what processor you get (some think 667MHz ARM, but others say 400MHz ARM) or how much RAM you get (Google turns up nothing; neither does Apple's "tech specs" site on the phone). In some sense it doesn't matter, because you're stuck with the iPhone bundled software anyway.

So yeah, $450 for Neo1973 versus $500 for iPhone. Both are pricy, and the Neo1973 is only $50 cheaper. However, I think you're getting a ton more with the Neo1973 anyway. I don't really want a camera on my phone, and I do really want a GPS.

Re:Wasn't this thing supposed to have gps?

[BlueLightning]

The Neo1973 does have GPS, both in the GTA-01 and GTA-02.

great screen, too

[nanosquid]

Note that the screen is 640x480 pixels; this may be the first phone with good enough pixel density and resolution for decent handheld reading. And the fact that it's open source means that you aren't locked into an ebook reader.

OH God! ROTFL

[rueger]

This device could very well stand as a competitor to the more expensive Apple iPhone,

I'm sorry, but can we get just a little reality check here? And I'm someone who thinks the iPhone is 80% hype.

Re:OH God! ROTFL

[blackicye]

*boggle* I've been using a Linux based Motorola phone for over 2 years, this model is about 4 years old.

When I last posted about my Motorola e680i (a low priced phone, for the China market) the only responses I got here were that I was elitist and linux phones weren't for everyone..

pfeh..now all of a sudden its cool.

There are a couple on sale on ebay at the moment from $36 to $195.

Apple got it wrong (but may still win)

[nanosquid]

This smacks of the same sort of complaint-response attitude that drives the also-ran category in the music player market.

Possibly. Or possibly Apple got it wrong with the iPhone. Or possibly Apple got it wrong and they are still going to win through monopolistic practices and marketing. All one can do is try to develop a better product and see whether one can compete.

Wake me when it syncs with iTunes and automatically pulls my contacts, music, movies, TV shows, and calendar.

Why the hell would I want to sync with anything on my desktop? I want to sync with Yahoo! and Google and eMusic and Democracy and applications like those, over the air, without having to rely on a flaky and bulky desktop PC or Mac and without having a costly .Mac subscription. The iPhone view of the world is broken as far as I'm concerned.

Re:Apple got it wrong (but may still win)

[illumin8]

Or possibly Apple got it wrong and they are still going to win through monopolistic practices and marketing.

How can Apple win through monopolistic practices when they didn't have any market share in smartphones AT ALL a little over a week ago?

All one can do is try to develop a better product and see whether one can compete.

Indeed. Kudos to Apple for showing the rest of the market how it is done.

Re:Sounds great, but...

[grcumb]

...without the sort of $$$ companies like Nokia, Apple and Sony Ericsson regularly throw at "your phone is a statement of who you are" marketing campaigns, I doubt phones based on this software will make much of an impact outside of geek circles.

I can think of a few areas where this might be popular:

• Second- and Third-tier carriers in small regional and/or local markets that need something to distinguish themselves from their competitors, but don't have the R&D money to do full-scale product development.
• Corporate services - services focused on very specific business niches with unique needs. With GPS, GSM and Wifi built right in, I could think of a few really compelling apps for business....
• Developing nations - Places where interface localisation could increase a market by a significant percentage, but not enough to interest the big players. There are millions to be earned there; they just come in smaller increments than the multi-nationals consider interesting.

There are modest fortunes to be made in any of the above. I'm already investigating the business potential of this device for the very unique circumstances that I work in. If the quality and supply of this device are at the right level, I'm almost certain to invest in it.

/.'ed

[pturing]

I'm on their mailing list.
I get the announcement e-mail.
Maybe I'll get one and get in on the dev action.
That's weird, the site's not responding.
I wonder what killed their web server;
I don't think there's that many people on the list.
Oh well, I wonder what's on slashdot...

Re:And then Boom!

[kestasjk]

Uglier, but cheaper and more functional. Yeah, that's pretty much open source in a nutshell.

Symbian vs. Linux

[MBHkewl]

The only mobile phones that I ever owned were the Nokia Communicator series (9110i, 9250 & 9500), and I am SICK of Symbian. Yes, the keyboard is very nice, but the crappy OS which crashes on very inconvenient times is just too much. When I pay $900 for a phone, I expect it to work for at least 3 years before crapping on me.

Nokia has moved away from reliability long time ago and got on the fancy-wagon. Their new E90 phone (new communicator) is very sexy, especially with the built-in GPS chip, but I guess I'll make a sacrifice for a phone that is willing to give what I had paid for.

I've been waiting for a very long time for a Linux phone, 3 more months won't make much of a difference.

Nokia: UP YOURS!

Re:Open Source?

[mmontour]

So uhh.. where's the source code? I didn't see any mention of source code or documentation on their web site; did I miss it? Look on the Wiki and on projects.openmoko.org.

They don't care so long as you're on contract

[bADlOGIN]

You sign a contract, they don't give a crap what the hell you put a SIM in.
Just that you pay your bill (and perhaps rack up some overage).
In fact, if you didn't buy the phone from them, they have less to deal with
if you have hardware problems. T-Mobile has no issues with doing that
what so ever.

Access the GSM telephony any way you like

[Anonymous Coward]

It locks you out of accessing the hardware fully, in the same vein that Tivo does.

Rubbish, your comparison with the Tivo is completely wrong in all respects.

The Tivo doesn't allow you to run your own code in place of theirs, which is one of the key problems that GPLv3 seeks to overcome, ie. tivoization.

In contrast the Neo1973/OpenMoko is totally open-source by design, so you can replace any supplied host code by your own without restriction. The telephony applications are not locked at all, because the entire GSM command set is available at the AT interface, not just a small subset, and not just limited functionality. You can make the phone side work any way you like, even under the control of any other application, totally freely.

You seem to be quibbling that the firmware behind the AT interface is not available for reprogramming. Well that wouldn't give you greater GSM functionality, it would *modify* GSM itself, which isn't the intention at all, and it wouldn't be certifiable by the FCC nor any other GSM operator anyway, so it would be impossible to sell the unit as a GSM phone. Calling for that shows no understanding at all.

Re:why do i need a beta phone?

[wellingj]

Why do you need freedom? If you have to ask you will never know...

Motorola MING A1200

[ehiris]

I wonder how this compares to the Motorla MING which claims to be Linux-based also.

Geek does not imply Linux fanboy ...

[AHumbleOpinion]

I doubt phones based on this software will make much of an impact outside of geek circles.

Being a geek does not mean you will buy something merely because it is Linux based or FOSS based, that is a bit more like fan boy'ism. You need to realize that for most geeks Linux is not a crusade, many just need a good general purpose *nix environment and don't really give a rats ass about the politics and religion that gets so much attention. For this phone to make an impact in geek circles it has to deliver as a phone, like Linux delivered as a general purpose *nix. If its greatest feature is "its Linux based" then it will be a niche product even among geeks.

Re:Here's an easy prediction:

[TheSciBoy]

WHY would carriers want this thing on their networks again?

Because WiFi only covers a nanopercent of the area that GSM/3G covers. This means that any service you provide via WiFi, you'll also want to be able to use over EDGE/HDSPA/GPRS/whatever which uses the network and generates revenue. You'll also be using it to make calls.

In general, a carrier will just want you to have something connected to their network that you want to use and which you'll want to use a lot. I, for one, mostly just use my phone for SMS and actual phone conversations, but if I could get the phone to use WiFi for e-mail/messaging (ICQ+MSN) then I would be more likely to accept a few bytes flying over GPRS or something to get those messages when WiFi is not available. A lot more willing than I would be knowing that ALL of that data goes over an expensive network.

The only thing I'm worried about is the potential for hackers to hack the network stacks and trying to get free phone calls/data transfers with this device. If that happens it will be banned faster than you can say iPhone.

Stylus?

[xdotx]

Wasn't this originally supposed to be all touch screen... as in with fingers, no stylus and what-not? They're providing a stylus which seems to imply they've given up on the idea (I know they were having a lot of trouble with it previously). I'd rather the stylus-free approach than an overpowered stylus; although, I can't say I'd complain much if I got the latter.

Re:Sounds great, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes everything we wanted... except it looks stupid. It's stubby vs. slim slender and sleek which is what everyone is marketing these days. But other than that... yeah it's friggin' AWESOME.

no A2DP

[RMH101]

I'm assuming the lack of the stereo bluetooth protocol A2DP is what the OP was referring to. This is *really* irritating. My Macbook doesn't have it either, and I can only presume that Apple deliberately don't add this feature because they think it'll reduce sales of Apple TV or something by allowing you to stream audio to your hifi or similar.

Seriously, A2DP on phones is great. Add a stereo bluetooth car kit to your motor and you can stream your tunes into your car stereo in fairly high quality...

Re:no A2DP

[47Ronin]

A2DP will be supported in Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard which will debut in October.

Re:Here's an easy prediction:

[Eunuchswear]

Could you tell me why a carrier needs to "support" a phone?

You buy a phone.

You get a SIM from a carrier.

You put the SIM in the phone.

It works.

What more needs to be done?

Phones and SIMs are always bundled here

[tepples]

Could you tell me why a carrier needs to "support" a phone?

You buy a phone. In the United States, phones and SIMs aren't generally sold separately, and phones are sold locked to a network.

You put the SIM in the phone. Phones for use on Sprint and Verizon networks have no SIM slot because they're CDMA. Only those phones sold by AT&T and T-Mobile have SIM slots, and they're still network-locked out of the box.

What more needs to be done? More conspicuous advertising of locking and unlocking policies, for one thing.

Re:Phones and SIMs are always bundled here

[lowieken]

There is no simlocking in Belgium. Bundle sales of phones and phone contracts are illegal here.

Re:Phones and SIMs are always bundled here

[Eunuchswear]

In the United States, phones and SIMs aren't generally sold separately, and phones are sold locked to a network

Don't buy your phone from a carrier, buy your phone from a phone manufacturer:

http://www.nokiausa.com/A4411004

http://www.store.motorola.com/mot/en/US/adirect/mo torola

Phones for use on Sprint and Verizon networks have no SIM slot because they're CDMA.

So don't use those networks then.

What more needs to be done?

More conspicuous advertising of locking and unlocking policies, for one thing.

Rather than buying locked phones and whining about how difficult it is to unlock them why not just buy an unlocked phone?

Re:Sounds great, but...

[NeuralAbyss]

I'd buy one except that it's ancient, GSM-technology-wise: It doesn't do EDGE, UMTS or HSDPA. Which rules out 90% of what I (and many developers would) use the handset for - connectivity to data networks, for example, SSH sessions at any decent speed/latency.

It's a bloody good start. But it's got a long way to go.

GSM/GPRS module

[tzanger]

I'm curious as to how similar the GSM module is to a CDMA counterpart; Look specifically at smartphones like the treos; they come in both GSM and CDMA models, and the mainboards on them are pretty much identical. I'm willing to bet that if you took the GSM module out of this thing and slapped in a CDMA module from another phone (that uses the modular technology) that you'd be able to use CDMA networks.

Now the CDMA guys have agreements where they won't activate an ESN from another carrier, but if you've got an old or broken CDMA smartphone from someone like Telus, say, you could in theory have this phone on a CDMA network without too much trouble. There'll be some driver work as the commands aren't identical, but they're pretty damned close.

Re:All I want to know is:

[rincebrain]

Yes to all (2.5G for now - I have no idea what the cycle for getting 3G looks like).

As a consumer

[gelfling]

I want a phone that my carrier will accept. I don't know how the rest of the world views it but just because a company makes a phone doesn't actually mean my carrier is forced to integrate it into their network. Oh you can wave all the public policy documents from the FCC in their face you want. Doesn't mean shit. My carrier, Sprint has a hard enough time supporting the phones they sell. The conversation about bringing them an unlocked phone to activate it would something like:

Me: "I have this phone I want to add to my plan"
Sprint: "Did the store activate it?"
Me: "No it's my phone I didn't get it from a Sprint store"
Sprint: "Sir we don't do that"
Me: "blah blah blah blah - - ~~~ you're supposed to blah blah"
Sprint: "Sir let me check can you hold?"
Me: "Yeah sure"
-15 minutes later
Sprint: "Sir? We can do that, the activation fee is $375"
Me: "Huh?"
Sprint: "Sir yes if it's not a phone we sell then that's the activation fee"
Me: "Never mind, thanks anyway"
Sprint: "Thank you for calling Sprint"

Re:As a consumer

[retro128]

Sprint is a bit different since they're using CDMA, as does Verizon. Neither has SIM cards, so when you change phones, you have to call them up and activate every time.

On the other hand, GSM networks are keyed to SIM cards. When you activate a phone, you are giving them the SIM number and they are activating that. If they ask you for your phone model and ESN, it's just for their records in case your phone gets ripped off so they can put it on a "stolen" list. Changing your phone is as simple as popping out the SIM and putting it into the new phone. You don't have to call the carrier. AT&T and T-Mobile are the two major GSM networks. The Neo1973 is strictly a GSM phone, so the activation scenario you described wouldn't happen.

I personally favor GSM because when I go to Europe, I can buy a SIM card for 10 euros, pop it in my phone, have instantly have a local number. Verizon makes you rent a "world phone" for some ridiculous amount of money. I don't know what Sprint does for international travelers, but it's probably similar.

IMHO, the only thing CDMA has going for it is the speed of the data network.

This ought to be good.

[NDPTAL85]

Alright I'm pulling up a chair here. Can you please explain to us all why Apple's iPhone marketing campaign is UNETHICAL? Did Steve Jobs kill some baby seals to get the commercials made? Were kittens thrown against the wall on every bad take? I'm seriously curious, how could a marketing campaign that includes a disembodied hand, voice and product be unethical?

SIM toolkit?

[Yenya]

I am eager to replace my current phone with Openmoko. However, I use a SIM Toolkit application for my banking. I wanted to look up whether Openmoko plans some STK support, but I have only found this post in gsmd-devel archives from March. Does anybody know what is the state of SIM Toolkit support in Openmoko?

Re:As a consumer - AVOID CDMA!

[_LORAX_]

Sprint and Verizon are both CDMA gorillas and they will refuse to activate non-branded phones. Sure the FCC requires they do, but they have figured out ways to prevent most people from doing so legally. Making insane requirements that only are met by their branded firmware using any FCC option as a mandatory requirement ( for safety reasons )... anything to prevent phone from being activated that were not sold by them.

But you can activate any CDMA phone on "page plus" which is a pre-pay service that uses the very same CDMA network. At rates as low as .06/min and .50/month it's a good deal for anyone but the biggest talker.

If you want true competition you have to go unlocked GSM since the phone will work almost anywhere in the world ( within reason ) all you need to do is pick up a SIM ( cheap usually ) card for the local provider and pop it in your phone. No need to ask for permission or fight with CSR's who don't know crap that isn't on their screen. While CDMA is slightly more efficient it's lock in effect is crazy.

Re:Not really cheaper than the iPhone

[babbling]

Free software is about freedom, not being cheaper.

Re:Here's an easy prediction:

[mellon]

You almost certainly don't want this phone. It's not a consumer phone - it's for developers to get started. If we (developers) wind up creating something amazing, then FIC is expecting to make more hardware. Right now GSM is the choice because it's ubiquitous - the only place you can't get it is Japan and Korea, where they already have such wicked cool phones that the Linux bit wouldn't be worth anything anyway.

GPRS is the choice because it's generally not restricted. Supposedly it's relatively easy to connect to GPRS without the provider's help, but a lot harder to connect to EDGE. Dunno how true that is, but that was the rationale for using GPRS. It would be nice if the consumer model had support for EDGE.

But the main point is that what this phone is doing is something different. Normal phones you get from your cell provider are disposable, and they have to be, because they generally suck. The hardware is great, don't get me wrong, but the software usually bites, and you can't fix it. My Samsung t809 won't sync with my Prius because of some stupid handshaking glitch. There's never going to be a firmware update for that. If the OpenMoko doesn't sync with my Prius, what to do? Fix it. I don't have to try to get Samsung to fix it. I don't have to listen to Samsung and Toyota blame each other for the problem. I just fix it. You, if you don't want to hack the phone yourself, wait for me to fix it. It's a really good deal from that perspective.

Likewise, my t809, which is a really sweet piece of software, has an alarm tone that genuinely pisses me off. It's an earworm. If I use the alarm on the t809, I'm hearing it in my head the rest of the day. I'd like to use a different alarm tone. But I can't. Because it's a closed-source phone, and they didn't think to let me install a different alarm tone. They weren't trying to screw me - they just didn't think of it. On the Neo, I can just hack the software if it's not configurable.

My t809 doesn't support stereo bluetooth. The fix? Buy a new phone. Two years later, when my old contract expires. Lame. On the Neo? A simple matter of programming. It probably already works - I haven't tried it because I don't have the phone yet. But if it doesn't work, I have the source code, I can fix it.

My Macbook won't work with the modem in my t809. So I have EDGE support, but I can't use it. On the Neo, as long as I can get the Neo to talk to the network, I can just have it do IP over the bluetooth, with NAT, so that my Mac has access to the Net at the same time that my Neo has access to the net. Doesn't work? Use the source, Luke.

So yeah, the Neo is really under-featured, if you're into cell phone cameras. But if you're into flexibility, and not being locked in to a broken phone for two years at a time, I think it's got possibilities.

Hackers and closed source

[TheSciBoy]

Closed source or not, once a device is in the hands of malevolent hackers they can attempt to crack it. There are cracks for DVD's that allow them to read all regions, that software is closed source. There are hacks for Windows Genuine Advantage, which is closed source. Mention an electronic device that costs money to use and I bet there's a hack for it, closed source or not.

Even if the software is in protected firmware (which I bet it is) there is the potential for "patching" the firmware or abusing the open source API with some clever hacking.

Hopefully this phone won't be a target because the company behind it are trying to do something special. But if you expect people to play 'nice' then you'll generally be disappointed.

Re:Sounds great, but...

[CrazedWalrus]

Yup - that's why I just bought one. I'm so sick of buying a phone that I think will do what I want, only to find out there's some gotcha. I don't mind programming or debugging to get what I want, and I hate not having that option. I have a Blackberry because that covers most of my needs, but it still isn't perfect and I can't customize it that last 10%.

Also, like you said, I bought one because I want to support this. I'd hate to have wasted the money if this turns out to be a dud, but I want to show these companies that demand is out there. This is the kind of thing where you really do need to vote with your wallet. This phone is, in principle, a dream come true.

Sometimes they are trying to screw you...

[SanityInAnarchy]

Here's an example: Ring tones. Ring tones, wallpapers, screensavers, and assorted bullshit. The typical way you get this on a closed phone is, you dial some number you saw on TV, and you get charged something like $1 to download some tiny fragment of a song you doubtless already bought on CD.

On an open phone, you just rip the CD, then send the file to your phone -- like you would with an iPod, say.

The real reason for DRM -- not that people listen when I point this out -- is to be able to do crap like that. Sell you the same song five times -- once on a CD (which can ONLY be played on CD players, and not even all of them), again for your iPod, again as a ringtone on your phone, again as a soundtrack for your game console, and a fifth time because you'll lose one of the others and can't make backups.

But I don't think developers are going to create an amazing consumer application. If we do, someone will find a way to charge everyone on a "normal" phone to get the same thing. I'd settle for an amazing developer phone, and if we do create something useful, and users buy the phone and download our useful software, more power to them. I just want something I can hack.

The real reason: iPhone

[SanityInAnarchy]

The iPhone already has accelerometers, and the reason is simple: It can then figure out when you flip it on its side. Thus, it automatically changes the interfaces to reflect whether you're holding it vertically or horizontally. Combine that with other sensors, and it can figure out when you're holding it to your ear (and thus disable the display).

Others have already mentioned a lot of the creative things that could be done with it beyond that, so I'll mention one -- scrolling. Put simply, if it's accurate enough, imagine having a document that is digitally the size of a wall -- rather than scrolling through it, you simply move the phone around the document.

Re:Here's an easy prediction:

[FireFury03]

Shame the phone only supports GPRS, which is too painfully slow to use for anything (latency typically hits 2s RTT, which is just painful).

Indeed. I fully intend to get an OpenMoko device, but I'm likely to wait until a 3G version is available. A slightly bigger screen and a hard keypad would be nice too.

'running Linux' is not a good reason to get a phone

I think it's a very good reason:
1. All the development tools are Free and will work on my workstations (all of which run Linux)
2. I can run OpenMoko in qemu for development purposes
3. I can run many of my normal GUI applications on the phone since it uses Xorg
4. I can easilly hack up shell scripts, python scripts, run cron jobs, etc
5. Hopefully the Free software mindset will allow better Free software - I'm sick of everyone wanting to charge me 30-50ukp for every crappy little utility for my Symbian phone

that came free with my (cheapest possible) contract 18 months ago

I spend around 2ukp a month on my cellphone - I have no intention of going onto another contract with a monthly charge just to get a new phone (especially since all the phones provided by the operators at the moment are shit)

but it has no camera (WTF?).

Why on earth do I want a camera on my phone? Most of them take crappy blurry photos through their crappy tiny plastic lenses. I'll stick to using my old IXUS400 for quick snaps thanks.

Re:Wasn't this thing supposed to have gps?

[FireFury03]

Minor note: these phones have AGPS. It does the same thing, but works by using the cell towers rather than GPS satellites.

This is incorrect. AGPS is the same as GPS (and uses the same satellites) except it requires some external assistance. The assistance varies depending on the particular AGPS device - some of them require assistance from the cellphone provider's network (e.g. to provide processing of the signals, etc), but in this case it just requires that the phone has the almanac data available (which can just be downloaded over the wifi connection every so often).

So in summary: it uses the GPS satellites, doesn't require any assistance from your service provider and just requires you download the almanac periodically.

iPhone != best designed phone

[r_jensen11]

Sorry, but the iPhone is not the best designed phone. No phone is the best designed phone. Why? Because everyone has different needs. The iPhone would be a horrible phone for a parent to give their preteen/teen (not that I think they should have cell phones anyway, but that's beside the point.) Nor is it the best designed phone for an older person with arthritis. Nor is it the best designed phone for someone who loves the outdoors and does things like go camping. Nor is it a good phone for those who spend a considerable amount of time overseas.