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Japan to Tax All Unlicensed Wireless Devices?

Chicken Ranch writes "It's not just about wireless networking. This tax would apply to a range of devices from WLAN to RFID to Cordless Phones to Remote Control Cars. Basically, if it operates in an unlicensed band, the government wants a tribute. So would they still call it an 'unlicensed' band?"

75 comments

  1. Even Bluetooth? by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The fee would apply to radio devices that operate in license-free spectrum, which includes Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, Zigbee, and UWB technologies.
    ...
    Japanese consumers already pay a yearly 420 Yen fee for each mobile phone. So they'd have to pay an additional tax for using a Bluetooth headset on the mobile phone they already pay a tax on?
    1. Re:Even Bluetooth? by KiloByte · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Since when double taxation was a problem for any kind of government?

      --
      The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
    2. Re:Even Bluetooth? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Why not? It's doing two separate radio transmissions in different parts of the spectrum.

    3. Re:Even Bluetooth? by Radicode · · Score: 3, Funny

      In other news, the government is pushing for people to buy Quad-band Smartphones with wifi, bluetooth and RFID.

    4. Re:Even Bluetooth? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I modded this "+1 Interesting", but I really wanted "+1 Sad But True".

    5. Re:Even Bluetooth? by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up!

      Double, triple taxation, whatever. Look at this way: they do it here in the States. You get taxed on the money you make, then you pay your mortgage. You get taxed on the value of your house (and the longer you pay your mortgage, the more your house is generally worth). You then get taxed on everything you buy. Somethings you buy you get taxed on extra because they are either luxury items (excise tax), bad for you ("sin" tax), or are otherwise taxed anyway (gas, oil, communications services, utilities tax).

      So if the U.S. were to follow Japan's lead, they'd institute an additional tax on top of the income tax already paid, and on top of the huge taxes you're already paying for the service, the sales tax on the phone itself, sales tax on the service (if any in your state), Universal Service Fee, and any fees already paid to the FCC by the phone manufacturer itself, which are passed on to you, naturally.

      AAAAARGGGGGHH!

      I am SO moving to Antarctica.

    6. Re:Even Bluetooth? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      say hi to the polar bears for me

    7. Re:Even Bluetooth? by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      I am SO moving to Antarctica.

      say hi to the polar bears for me

      He'd need a REALLY GOOD bluetooth setup - since the polar bears are on the other side of the world.

      Who wants to bet the AC is an American (poor knowledge of geography - "the world is divided into the US and everything else") wno runs Windows (doesn't want to make any references to penguins/linux whatsoever).

    8. Re:Even Bluetooth? by Isao · · Score: 2, Interesting
      So they'd have to pay an additional tax for using a Bluetooth headset on the mobile phone they already pay a tax on?


      As an aside, for some reason I'm not yet aware of the Japanese basically do not use Bluetooth headsets at all. It's rather weird.

    9. Re:Even Bluetooth? by Kagura · · Score: 1

      He'd need a REALLY GOOD bluetooth setup - since the polar bears are on the other side of the world.

      Dude, haven't you ever seen Lost? And I suppose you also believe that smoke monsters only live in the Arctic circle, too... :)

    10. Re:Even Bluetooth? by operagost · · Score: 1

      Who wants to bet that you're a troll who doesn't know how to close his tags properly?

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    11. Re:Even Bluetooth? by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      "Who wants to bet that you're a troll who doesn't know how to close his tags properly?"

      No, I was just too busy eating breakfast with one hand and typing with the other before heading into the office.

      So, truth hurts about some Americans having a poor knowledge of the rest of the world? Mistaking Australia for Iran, North and South Korea, and France ... (and if you look around, you can find other parts of the clip where they say that a triangle has 4 sides and no sides, that the official religion of Israel is Islam, that the language of latin America is latin ... and here and this really dumb sick f*ck religious nutcase disrupting military funerals.

      Fortunately, not everyone in the USA is like that, but really, the behavior of the Fred Phelps of the world would be considered criminal in most civilized countries :-) This is a guy who actively hates the United States, calling it ""A sodomite nation of flag-worshiping idolators. Military funerals are pagan orgies of idolatrous blasphemy where they pray to the dunghill gods of Sodom and play taps to a fallen fool ..."

      I wonder how much bin Laden is paying him, or is he just another "useful fool"?

    12. Re:Even Bluetooth? by generikz · · Score: 1

      Probably because it's considered extremely rude to talk out loud on your phone in Japan. It's frowned upon (almost forbidden) to take or make phone calls in public transportation and, for private calls, all Japanese will exit their office and call from outside (just like you would go outside for smoking).

      As a result, they are the masters of constant "quick-typing for quick-Email-messaging" from/to friends, all the time. It's quiet, it's in line with canonic politeness, it's the current standard for communication in public places.

      Regards,
      Julien

  2. RFIDs? Submitters should RTFA by ReallyEvilCanine · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There's no mention of RFIDs which in any case aren't transmitters in the sense of the proposal. They could possibly tax the readers, but then that would mean they'd have to also tax in-store anti-theft devices. Japanese politics being what it is, there's no way I'll risk making any sort of prediction.

    1. Re:RFIDs? Submitters should RTFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's no mention of RFIDs which in any case aren't transmitters in the sense of the proposal.

      How are they not? I haven't read the proposal itself (I don't read japanese and I'm sure the english translation isn't precise enough), but RFIDs are definitely transmitters, even if they only transmit for a short duration of time.

    2. Re:RFIDs? Submitters should RTFA by ReallyEvilCanine · · Score: 1

      They're not active transmitters. They only respond to certain radio waves emitted by transmitters, and that within a very limited range.

    3. Re:RFIDs? Submitters should RTFA by Lockejaw · · Score: 1

      They only respond to certain radio waves emitted by transmitters, and that within a very limited range.
      Couldn't you describe a repeater that way too?
      --
      (IANAL)
    4. Re:RFIDs? Submitters should RTFA by RexRhino · · Score: 1

      No, because repeaters actually re-broadcast, where RFID tags just reflect radio signals back.

      A mirror is not a light bulb.

    5. Re:RFIDs? Submitters should RTFA by Lockejaw · · Score: 1

      The added specificity is nice.

      --
      (IANAL)
  3. Money? by borizz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Smells like a simple money-grab to me. Those devices are low power and thus only locally change the radio spectrum significantly. Licensed radio was implemented to keep the long range spectrum usable.

    1. Re:Money? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Dead right. Here in the UK we have had a continuous recent history of money-grab tax proposals. We call them 'stealth taxes' over here.

      They are good for politicians in two ways. First, they raise funds almost invisibly - tech companies are always cutting the cost of their kit, and this just means the cost goes down a little slower, so there are no complaints from the consumer.

      Second, you need a bunch of administrators to collect the tax. These people owe their living to the tax and the government, so they aren't going to vote against it. So you start to build a bunch of captive voters, who will vote for you come what may.

      Once you get more than 20% or so of your working population living off the government, there's no way in hell of backing out. Thatcher managed to do it a bit - that's why she's still so hated by large sections of the community.

    2. Re:Money? by vtcodger · · Score: 1
      ***Smells like a simple money-grab to me. Those devices are low power and thus only locally change the radio spectrum significantly. Licensed radio was implemented to keep the long range spectrum usable.***

      You could be right, but Japanese cities are very densely populated compared to most Western cities -- even New York. 'Local' can involve a lot more people than in typical US or European environments. Also, the culture is loaded with alternate ways of doing things that are not necessarily illogical, just different. This tax may, and I emphasize MAY make sense in terms of Japan. e.g., they may figure that a tax will discourage unlicensed spectrum slices with so much interference that no one can get their stuff to work except in the middle of the night. Or not. With Japan, you rarely know exactly what is going on.

      --
      You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
    3. Re:Money? by Firethorn · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yeah, the stated reason 'to control illegal broadcasts' doesn't cut it with me, as people doing illegal things tend to not worry about laws period. Not paying a tax would go right along illegally broadcasting.

      No mention in the article if it'd be a one time fee when the equipment is purchased, or an annual fee like the cell phone tax or the british TV tax.

      Even with the fee, it would take police resources of an epic proportions, armed with sophisticated equipment to track most illegal broadcasters down, defined as 'didn't pay their tax'. Tracking down people who violate broadcasting standards would be much easier.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
  4. FP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can you believe it. Until the early 21st century, there existed an unlicensed band!

    1. Re:FP by smittyoneeach · · Score: 1

      There are still some left, but they are of the high-mobility variety.

      --
      Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
  5. "Wants a tribute"? by Aladrin · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I love how all Slashdot articles have massive amounts of spin on them now.

    This is a -proposal-, not a law, not even something someone has said 'I want this to happen'. They are looking into ways to control "illegal" radio stations.

    It's quite obvious to anyone that even glances at it that it not only won't stop things that are already illegal, but that it will adversely affect many people it wasn't intended to.

    BTW, that 420 yen yearly tax per mobile phone is about $3.50 US. -yawn- As if we don't already spend a hell of a lot more than that in the US. (Hint: It's on your cellphone bill every month.)

    --
    "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    1. Re:"Wants a tribute"? by kypper · · Score: 1

      BTW, that 420 yen yearly tax per mobile phone is about $3.50 US. -yawn- As if we don't already spend a hell of a lot more than that in the US. (Hint: It's on your cellphone bill every month.)

      The Slide it in your Ass *ahem* System Access Fee. :)
      Network upkeep, maintenance, not a government fee, yadda yadda...

      or... a way of making the monthly rate of the plan itself look cheaper at the point of sale.

    2. Re:"Wants a tribute"? by Tx · · Score: 1

      I love how all Slashdot articles have massive amounts of spin on them now.

      Well, it does seem to be a good way of eliciting informative responses to the article, such as yours ;) I personally find the tabloid-style headlands rather entertaining, and any misconceptions they generate are usually cleared up in the top few comments.

      --
      Oh no... it's the future.
    3. Re:"Wants a tribute"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Good point, its is only $3.50 per month. I agree its okay that a mugger only takes a small amount of money off you. Who would begrudge a bully a dollar when they kindly leave you with your shoes. In effect the robber has gifted to you all the things he hasn't stolen, which must be worth something right?

      Maybe someone wouldn't see the obvious logic of the problem above and might have some doubts. But thats ok because if the majority think its okay then it must be! Thats the beauty of democracy.

    4. Re:"Wants a tribute"? by Tim+C · · Score: 1

      Network upkeep, maintenance, not a government fee, yadda yadda...

      So it's an unelected corporation taking the money off you rather than the government (who would presumably spend it on public projects rather than shareholder dividends); you're still paying more than you'd necessarily have to otherwise.

    5. Re:"Wants a tribute"? by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

      No,no, my favorite is the "regulatory recovery fee". Just another way to make us pay extra (since they can't raise the rate on a contract) for government requirements that they have to comply with - some of which they were always required to comply with, but never did until they lost an appeal in court.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    6. Re:"Wants a tribute"? by Aladrin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah, but's -not- a mugger, is it? It's the government. Maybe they don't have a -whole- lot of choice about their government in Japan, but here in the US we -do- and we end up with just as many (and probably more) bullshit taxes and regulations.

      As (rudely) noted by the other responder, it's a yearly fee, not monthly, for Japan.

      Why is it any different than any other regulated service? If we want the government to regulate something, we have to give them money to be able to do it. $3.50 a year seems awful low to regulate the cellphone industry, if you ask me. But then, maybe they aren't such assholes over there, and don't have to slapped back into line so often.

      Over here (in the US), the money for that comes from other taxes. If corner drug dealer has 5 cellphones, and I only have 1, why shouldn't he pay more taxes? And the neighbor down the road that has no cellphone... Why should he sponsor regulation of my luxury item?

      At any rate, let's be clear on this: The taxes WILL be collected. They may not specifically say 'this is a cellphone tax' but the money WILL come from the tax payer.

      Taxes for road repair come (at least partially) from gasoline.
      Taxes for helping smokers get medical care for lung cancer come from... Cigarettes, now, but there was a time they didn't. The burden was correctly moved to those who choose to smoke, knowing the risks. (If my mother can quit, anyone can.)

      Why should cellphones be any different?

      The problem here is not the tax, but the law that goes with it. It doesn't do what it's designed to, and has adverse effects on those unrelated to the problem.

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    7. Re:"Wants a tribute"? by cybermage · · Score: 1

      This is a -proposal-, not a law

      It's probably best to look into details of proposals and raise a stink before they become law. Doing so would have saved us a whole lot of trouble with things like the Patriot Act which was passed almost completely unread by the people passing it, much less their constituents.

      Waiting until something is already law to complain about it is like buying a fire extinguisher as a means of fire prevention.

      (Hint: It's on your cellphone bill every month.)

      That is true and is one of the reasons I believe Carriers should have to tell you what your total bill would be in their ads rather than just at the point of signing the contract. But, I'd be surprised if there are not already taxes on the phone service in Japan, so I'm not sure what your point is. $3.50 a year is way less than the over $5.00 I pay in taxes and fees on my cell phone bill each month, but surely your not suggesting that the $3.50 will be the only tax on cell service they pay.

    8. Re:"Wants a tribute"? by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      but here in the US we -do- and we end up with just as many (and probably more) bullshit taxes and regulations.
      That is because here in the USA the general VOTING populace tents to vote for the silver-spoon, seperated from reality, mentially challenged and not the guy that has a level head and common sense. This pervades every public office from President down to Citiy council.

      Americans are easily swayed by soundbites and flashy commercials.

      A level headed Person has no chance, they dont cater to the voting majority.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    9. Re:"Wants a tribute"? by Aladrin · · Score: 1

      Indeed, and for people affected by the law, I heartily reccommend they act on the public comment period that was referenced in the article. For the rest of us...

      Like me, I doubt most of the people responding to this have little to no knowledge of Japanese law and government. Is the $3.50 the only tax they pay on their phones? The article sure makes it sound that way, but I have no idea.

      My point is that everyone is getting indignant about a proposal in a society they know nothing about that proposes a tax of an unspecified amount on unspecified devices. The only thing we -do- know is that the proposal doesn't do what they said it would when it was proposed. All other speculation is pretty much pointless for outsiders.

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    10. Re:"Wants a tribute"? by AlHunt · · Score: 1

      >BTW, that 420 yen yearly tax per mobile phone is about $3.50 US. -yawn-

      Might want to stifle that yawn - incrementalism is how America got so screwed up.

      --
      1 in 4 Maine children in struggle with hunger.
    11. Re:"Wants a tribute"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The economics of theft and tax is the same. The government spends the money on things to get itself re-elected, ie for its own benifit, a mugger spends to support the car dealer he's buying his next porsche from. Either way they take your property off you with out your consent so one person suffers for the benifit of another. Both under threat of violence btw.

      The US became a traitorous insurgent nation over a 1% tax to be paid to the british government. All that fluff about where tax is spent is just really just another way of you saying you want other people to pay for your wants. You are American for Gods sake??? Has socialism so totally rotted your education system? The commies must be laughing their socks off.

    12. Re:"Wants a tribute"? by foobsr · · Score: 1

      But thats ok because if the majority think its okay then it must be! Thats the beauty of democracy.

      My guess is that the idea of 'democracy' is based on the presupposition that people are 'equal' (within a 'reasonable' range).

      With exponential distributions everywhere (income the most obvious) the model gets as flawed as 'communism' was in the Soviet Union.

      CC.

      --
      TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
    13. Re:"Wants a tribute"? by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but's -not- a mugger, is it? It's the government. Maybe they don't have a -whole- lot of choice about their government in Japan, but here in the US we -do- and we end up with just as many (and probably more) bullshit taxes and regulations.

      Japan hasn't been Imperial since the end of WWII, they are a democracy now, though a little different than the US model, they are still a democracy.

    14. Re:"Wants a tribute"? by soapthgr8 · · Score: 1

      It would be nice to have such choices at election time. However, the nature of the two-party system and the cost of getting your name out help to ensure that our choice boils down to the lesser of two silver-spoon, reality distorted evils.

    15. Re:"Wants a tribute"? by operagost · · Score: 1

      Over here (in the US), the money for that comes from other taxes. If corner drug dealer has 5 cellphones, and I only have 1, why shouldn't he pay more taxes? And the neighbor down the road that has no cellphone... Why should he sponsor regulation of my luxury item?
      I'm paying school taxes, even though I have no children. I don't agree with it, but apparently the politicians do.
      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    16. Re:"Wants a tribute"? by Bueller_007 · · Score: 1

      >Maybe they don't have a -whole- lot of choice about their government in Japan, but here in the US we -do- and we end up with just as many (and probably more) bullshit taxes and regulations.

      Don't have a whole lot of choice? Compared to the U.S.? Are you fucking kidding me?

      Let's compare, shall we?

      Major Japanese political parties:
      Liberal Democratic Party (right wing) - 115 elected members of the upper house, 296 elected members of the lower house
      Democratic Party (left wing) - 83 elected members of the upper house, 113 elected members of the lower house
      New Komeito (Buddhist) - 24 elected members of the upper house, 34 elected members of the lower house
      Japanese Communist Party - 9 elected members of the upper house, 9 elected members of the lower house
      Social Democratic Party - 5 elected members of the upper house, 7 elected members of the lower house
      Liberal League (right wing) - 0 elected members of the upper house, 1 elected member of the lower house

      Major American parties:
      Democrats: 233 elected house representatives, 49 elected members of the senate
      Republicans: 202 elected house representatives, 49 elected members of the senate
      Independent (should I even include this as a "party"?): 1 elected house representative, 2 elected members of the senate

      For the last Japanese lower house election (which had unusually high voter turnout), 67.5% of eligible voters went out. For the 2004 American presidential election (a forty-year-high voter turnout), 60.7% of eligible voters went out. (For comparison's sake of a more normal recent election, the Japanese 2004 Upper House election had 56.4% turnout, and the 2006 American house election had 36.8% voter turnout.)

      Not to mention the fact that within the LDP there are factions that compete against each other. Sometimes almost as ferociously as rival political parties.

      Yup, no political choice in Japan. None at all.

    17. Re:"Wants a tribute"? by Aladrin · · Score: 1

      Haha, well that rather proves my point about not knowing their political situation, doesn't it?

      Thanks for correcting me. (And no, I'm not being sarcastic. I don't enjoy ignorance.)

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    18. Re:"Wants a tribute"? by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 1

      "Maybe someone wouldn't see the obvious logic of the problem above and might have some doubts. But thats ok because if the majority think its okay then it must be! Thats the beauty of democracy."

      No, the beauty of democracy is that you are not forced to use a cell phone if you do not agree with the $3.50 yearly fee. Or you could realize that the benefit of paying the fee outweighs the inconvenience of having to find pay phones all the time... Or you could raise a fleet of carrier pigeons to deliver your messages... See, democracy IS great!

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
    19. Re:"Wants a tribute"? by kristopher_d · · Score: 0

      "If we want the government to regulate something" But I don't want it regulated. So may I please be exempt from paying for something I don't want? Thank you.

    20. Re:"Wants a tribute"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Japan hasn't been Imperial since the end of WWII, they are a democracy now, though a little different than the US model, they are still a democracy. What does that really mean anymore, in a country with hundreds of millions of people, and a government so huge that no human being can possibly even begin to know all that their government is doing? It is not exactly like anyone in Japan, or the U.S., can go to their local town hall meeting to have a federal tax eliminated... they can't personally schedule a meeting with their Head of State in order to talk about the problem. A one in 300 million say is hardly a voice, anymore than having a 1 in 300 million chance of winning the lottery makes you rich.

      Democracy means something when the system is small enough that an ordinary individual can actually effect the system... which is why democracies used to make most laws/taxes at the local government level, and the Federal government only handles international trade, national defense, and things that could not function locally. But nowadays, in most "Democracies" nearly everything has become Federalized, and national populations have grown to tens of millions, even in "small" countries. Democracy is nothing but a slogan, and any real concept of self-determination or self-rule is gone.

      And Democracies aren't immune from doing terrible things either. The democraticly elected Nazi government of Germany began to discriminate and segragate (and eventually exterminate), with the popular support of the German people. The fact that a plurality of Germans supported it, doesn't mean it was right. While a tax on wireless equipment obviously isn't as bad as genocide, the basic principle holds true: Democratic governments can do evil, oppressive things. Just because a plurality of eligble voters decide something, doesn't mean it is the morally right or smart thing to do.

      Usually, when I hear people talk about "democracy" nowadays, "democracy" isn't being used to empower people, but to squash critism of government policies.
  6. Tax vs. License by DynaSoar · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You don't need a license to own property, but you have to pay property tax.
    You don't need a license to buy things, but you have to pay sales tax.

    You need a license to drive, but as long as it's not your car you don't have to pay taxes on it.
    You need a license to operate a ham radio, but you don't pay any more taxes than if you didn't.

    --
    "I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
    1. Re:Tax vs. License by badfish99 · · Score: 1

      In other words:
      When I do some things (own property, buy goods) I have to pay the government some money, and it's called a tax.
      When I do other things (drive, operate a radio) I have to pay the goverment some money, and it's called a license.

      Yes, I see the distinction clearly now.

    2. Re:Tax vs. License by cocotoni · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Exactly!

      Furthermore WiFi, Bluetooth, RC, RFID etc. are in the part of the spectrum that is not "unlicensed" on a world wide scale, as the summary would like us to believe - this part of the spectrum is just reserved for "other" purposes, meaning that the goverments will not decide to use the spectrum to issue other "licensed" services. Basically a bunch of governments has decided to wall-off part of the spectrum (which is of course a scarse natural resource belonging to a particular country) and not use it for TV, RADARs, communication, etc. allowing the development of devices using this part of the spectrum.

      In no way does the deal preclude the governments to tax the users of these frequencies, either per-device, per-user or per-minute.

    3. Re:Tax vs. License by NoMaster · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Besides, it not an "unlicensed band" anyway - it's class licensed. Any equipment which operates in those bands has to meet certain stringent requirements with regards to maximum power, etc, in order to be operated without an operator's licence (which is why things like boosting your WiFi ERP beyond certain limits through the use of high gain antennas, etc, is illegal).

      If, to take one example, the 2.4GHz band was truly unlicensed, your local regulatory authority couldn't stop you from hooking up a waveguide and external antenna to the magnetron of your microwave oven and splattering all the WiFi in the neighbourhood. But, because all such equipment is class licenced, you'd be operating it outside the conditions of the equipment license and they'll in fact come down on you like a ton of bricks...

      --
      What part of "a well regulated militia" do you not understand?
    4. Re:Tax vs. License by DynaSoar · · Score: 1

      Badfish sez:

      > When I do some things (own property, buy goods) I have to pay the government some money, and it's called a tax.
      > When I do other things (drive, operate a radio) I have to pay the goverment some money, and it's called a license.

      A license shows competence in a field and grants the holder the right to do that thing. Not all licenses are granted by government agencies. Some, as from some professional organizations, grant the license and get the money. These may or may not follow rules as set out by a government agency. In either case the fees for the license go to the granting agency in order to maintain the granting process.

      Taxes go to the government and get reallocated as they see fit. They have nothing to do with proving competence or practicing in a certain field.

      Yes, both have to do with doing some things, and in both cases you pay money. If that's a problem, I recommend telling the bartender that your beer should be free since some of the price goes to pay for the bar's liquor license.

      --
      "I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
    5. Re:Tax vs. License by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      I guess there's a difference between "unlicensed" and "unregulated".

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  7. I don't understand by aadvancedGIR · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In France, if you want to use a wireless technoology, the manufacturer (or group of them) have to pay for a license to gain the right to use a certain band of frequence in certain way up to a certain transmission power. There are a few bands where anyone can do anything without the need of a license but at very low power, but some other bands are very expensive (TV, GSM...).
    Broadcast anything without license and you risk jail sentence, in particular if you interfere with commercial or military frequencies.

  8. Radiotherapy devices? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Radiotherapy devices use ISM ("unlicensed") bands. So are they going to charge hospitals and other healthcare providers?

    1. Re:Radiotherapy devices? by Heian-794 · · Score: 1

      I'm sure the healthcare providers (who are reimbursed by the government for 70% of patients' fees) will find it difficult to put up much resistance.

      From the article: The rationale behind the charge appears to be the Ministry's desire to control "illegal" "radio stations" and to promote "efficient" RF spectrum utilization. Japanese consumers already pay a yearly 420 Yen fee for each mobile phone.

      Some advice, government: just skip the silly rationales and say what you're thinking, which is, "We want more money, and you're going to give it to us." This ridiculous pablum about "efficiency" and "safety"* is just insulting.

      (*: What was used as the excuse for making various old electronics illegal to sell second-hand a few years back.)

  9. Isn't that what `bribe` means? by Threni · · Score: 1

    When you have to pay someone to stop `bad things` from happening. "Yeah, you could pay for a license...or you could...you know...`show me some respect`..if you know what I mean.."

  10. Wireless Sensor Networks by dominious · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Does this tax apply per device? What if you have a WSN consisting of hundreds of wireless sensor nodes?

  11. Hypothetical of how Government works by bxwatso · · Score: 1

    Government hack #1: "I would sure like to create a new program to help the (insert constituency of choice here). My pollsters show I am weak with (insert demographic that thinks constituency is being mistreated)"
    Government hack #2: "That sounds fine, but how would you like to pay for it?"
    GH1: "I don't know, how about reducing one of the programs that doesn't do much good for those (insert constituency not represented by GH1)."
    GH2: "Stop right there, that underperforming program was part of my platform for change in 1978."
    GH1: "Well, what should I do?"
    GH2: "Well, some of my telecom lobbyists are concerned that unlicensed spectrum will compete with the spectrum they paid too much for the 1990's. Why don't we pay for your new program by taxing the unlicensed spectrum users. That way, you get your program and I can protect my telecom supporters. After all, nobody knows who the unlicensed spectrum users are right now or which party they lean towards."
    GH1: "Huh?"
    GH2: "Just vote for it and everything will be OK."
    GH1: "Thanks, GH2, this should get me another 2 years of pubic sector bliss."
    GH2: Thanks, GH1, same here. All we had to do was raise taxes and stiffle an emerging market."

    1. Re:Hypothetical of how Government works by valisol · · Score: 1

      ... Am I the only one that thought GH1 and GH2 meant Guitar Hero 1 and 2? I guess I didn't pay enough attention to the first few lines...

    2. Re:Hypothetical of how Government works by bxwatso · · Score: 1

      Oops, sorry. I was trying to make it read like a script. Guitar Hero is neat (but I have a real one at home).

    3. Re:Hypothetical of how Government works by valisol · · Score: 1

      I think G.Hack (or something similar) would have worked better. Although, it may just be because I'm pretty sleepy...

    4. Re:Hypothetical of how Government works by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      GH1: "Thanks, GH2, this should get me another 2 years of pubic sector bliss."

      Honestly, these past ten years I think we've heard more than enough about the "pubic sector" bliss of our duly elected officials.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  12. Tax ALL wireless devices by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    Because if you are licensed, you pay a tax/fee too..

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:Tax ALL wireless devices by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      "Unlicensed" here means that the devices may be used without applying for a license. In essence, the entire population already has a free (limited) license for the bands in question at low power (one of the limitations). If you pay for a license, you already pay for a license.

      They are talking about raising the license fee (and incurring a whole lot of paperwork: someone's going to have to register all of those paid-for licenses.)

      Reminds me of a toll bridge near me whose toll revenue just barely paid for the toll booth operations for about a decade before someone finally got rid of it. (the toll, that is, the bridge is fine)

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
  13. If I was japanese by JustNiz · · Score: 1

    I'd be really pissed at this.

  14. Timed for Wireless Expo by mattr · · Score: 1

    It is really well timed, the deadline is the day that the bigwigs of wireless in Japan give their talks at the Wireless Expo. Talk about a jab! To me this is bullshit and also not aimed at phones. Look, I have a landline and a mobile phone. The mobile used to cost me $200/mo. but now I've cut back a lot and it is about $100/mo.

    But the tax or whatever it is would be a large percentage of the cost of household devices, not just radio control robots (and how do you get them to pay yearly anyway??) but also zigbee stuff, etc. Poof, there goes ubiquitous low-cost sensor nets eh? Speaking of which Japan is probably the leader in rolling out ubiquitous things, they are starting an experiment in September in which two thoroughfares in the Ginza (like Broadway) are embedded with RFID of one kind or another.

    My guess is the tax is an attempt to keep track of these things and not let them get too ubiquitous and pesky but not bothering to read the source beyond TFA it might have some other wonderful reasoning behind it, like making money, etc. Probably what will happen I'd guess is that the tax would get shifted to the industry association but who knows. There used to be a thing where all modems had to be modified so they couldn't war dial - only 3 calls per 2 minutes I think? Don't know if that is in effect still or not either.

  15. The greatest band by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    this is not the unlicensed band tax... this is only a tribute

  16. GSM duopoly matches political duopoly by tepples · · Score: 1

    Network upkeep, maintenance, not a government fee, yadda yadda... So it's an unelected corporation taking the money off you Of course the mobile phone market is elected. American GSM customers can choose AT&T or T-Mobile, just like American voters can choose the Republican Party or the Democratic Party.

    rather than the government (who would presumably spend it on public projects rather than shareholder dividends) "Shareholder dividends" sounds a lot like pork.
  17. Whoa.. by pickyouupatnine · · Score: 1

    Looks like they're desperate for $$.

    --
    _Vishal www.squad9.com
  18. "Pubic" sector bliss? by PRMan · · Score: 1

    Oh wait, these are politicians we are talking about...

    --
    Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
  19. Popcorn Tax? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So... since its to promote a better use of the spectrum I can assume microwave ovens and some wireless home/office phone models should be taxed too. They both also "use" the 2.4GHz band.

  20. Well... by kitsunewarlock · · Score: 1

    Part of this is Japan has a much tighter control on data transmitting devices (gov't wise) than us. You have to get the government to set up your TV...and your internet...

    --
    Ginga no Rekshiya Mata Each page.