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$99 HD-DVD Player Coming Soon?

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the first-one's-free dept.

Frank writes "Rumors of the high definition holy grail persist. The latest is that Toshiba will be offering their basic HD-A2 player at $99 for one week only, beginning July 22. An added bonus is three free HD-DVD's."

47 of 257 comments (clear)

  1. Thats nothing.... by streetphantom · · Score: 5, Funny

    Blue Ray is being given away with Cornflakes soon.

    1. Re:Thats nothing.... by Traxton1 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Are you new here?

      --
      Twitter.com/TrentonHyatt
  2. Nice loss-leader... by Bob+Gelumph · · Score: 3, Insightful

    but will there be enough units to give HD-DVD a good enough foot hold to claw back marketshare from bluray?

    --
    I'm gonna need a spec.
    1. Re:Nice loss-leader... by dunezone · · Score: 5, Informative

      Marketshare? Ill be honest, I haven't seen one Blu-ray or HD-DVD player in someones house yet nor do I know anyone that owns one. Wait, I take that back Ive see one Blu-ray player and thats a PS3.

      Is it just me? Is it the Chicago area and we just refuse to buy into it? Ive read countless articles on which one is better, which will win, and that the Blu-ray has already won. And I still haven't seen one outside a store yet.

    2. Re:Nice loss-leader... by jridley · · Score: 2, Informative

      Probably largely true, but the video decoding part is going to require a lot more horsepower. A DVD MPEG2 stream can be played by very lightweight parts these days, but last I heard the chips that play HD streams are powerful enough that they require cooling fans. According to the MythTV howtos I've read, playing HDs on PCs requires a hefty graphics card that costs probably $300+ and about a 3GHZ machine. By contrast, you can play regular DVDs on a 600 MHz machine with an 8-year-old graphics card that you pulled from a dumpster.

    3. Re:Nice loss-leader... by PygmySurfer · · Score: 2, Informative

      That doesn't sound right - the Intel GMA950 (crappy onboard graphics chipset) can decode two HD streams at once. It doesn't even require a fan.

  3. Free as in no one will pay to haul these away? by magarity · · Score: 5, Funny

    An added bonus is three free HD-DVD's
     
    Pink Flamingos, Alone in the Dark, and The Star Wars Holiday Special.

  4. I wouldn't buy it by Durrok · · Score: 5, Informative

    I might use it if they give it away. This player has numerous issues, highlighted here.

    For those of you who don't like to click links:

    The HD-A2 is the least capable of the current crop of HD-DVD players available from Toshiba. Both of the other two models, the HD-A20 (Buy now) and the HD-XA2 (Buy now), support 1080p video. In fact the HD-A20 is nearly identical to the HD-A2, it just adds 1080p for an extra $100 more on the MSRP. So the odds that a firmware upgrade will ever be available for the HD-A2 to allow 1080p are pretty slim. How would you explain that to someone who bought an HD-A20? The HD-XA2 also comes with HDMI 1.3, better video processing, and gold plated input jacks. But the HD-A2 is the one that's getting all the hot sale prices, so it appears to be the most popular right now. But if you shop around, you might find a great deal on the HD-A20. For example, right now it's only about $25 more than the HD-A2 at the HT Guys store (as of 6/22).

    --
    I keep telling myself I'm not the desperate type.
    1. Re:I wouldn't buy it by John+Betonschaar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So if you just have a 720p TV (like I do) and don't care about 'HDMI 1.3' (whatever benefit you might get from that) or gold-plated connectors (for *digital* signals??), it's actually at least a half-decent player?

    2. Re:I wouldn't buy it by timeOday · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Especialy since the cheap player does output 1080i (following the above link). Personally would not pay double to get the "p." There are hardly any 1080p movies out anyways, and I don't think the difference from 1080i would be noticeable. Paying double for a small degree of "future-proofing" is not a good value in my book.

    3. Re:I wouldn't buy it by santakrooz · · Score: 5, Interesting

      1080p vs 1080i is a non-feature when it comes to HDDVD or BluRay that Sony has "invented" for marketing purposes. Here is why. Movies are filmed at 24 frames per second. They are displayed at 30frames or 60frames per second on high def DVD formats. All HDDVD and BluRay content is stored on disc in "1080p" meaning 1080x1920 full frame non-interlaced. Your 1080p display can take 1080i input from a 1080i source such as the A2 and will recombine fields to create full frame images. 1080p displays don't actually display anything interlaced. So when you're watching a 1080i source on a 1080p television you are actually effectively seeing 1080p 30frames per second instead of 1080p 60frames per second. You will not see a single bit of difference because the content is 24fps to begin with. Even 100% digitally filmed/produced movies such as CG cartoons (Nemo) or movies (Star Wars Prequels) are still mastered at 24fps...

      1080p is good for displaying 1080 content that is higher than 30 frames per second - such as video games. Basically with 1080i you're limited to 30 frames per second at 1080 vs 60 frames for 1080p. Playstation has 1080p because it's a game machine and 1080p provides potential for higher framerates at 1080 for gaming which is advantageous. But for movies? the difference betweek i and p is meaningless.

    4. Re:I wouldn't buy it by Shabbs · · Score: 4, Interesting

      1080p is marketing hype. Feeding a 1080i or a 1080p signal to a 1080p TV will be EXACTLY the same if the source is HD DVD or Blu-ray.

      Now, 1080p/24 is interesting. The HD-A20 and XA2 are going to be getting firmware updates to allow 1080p/24 output. The HD-A2 will not get this update. That is cool, if you have a 1080p/24 device you can watch HD film as it should be. But, how many people have a 1080p/24 display device? How many are even out there? Very few.

      Cheers.

      --
      Mark
    5. Re:I wouldn't buy it by MrDERP · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, I am not sure, but I have heard, that It's good to set the refresh rate to 72Hz for watching movies because 3 * 24 = 72 so every 3 refresh cycles the movie syncs with the HDTV. Setting it at 60hz they don't sync. Luckily I have an HDTV 42" that supports 72 Hz at 1080p and doubles as a computer monitor. Highly recomended Westinghouse, the only thing I ever got at best buy for a good price (was an "open box" deal.. Anyway my point.. Set your HDTV/Monitor to 72 Hz so it will sync up with 24 fps movies.. This is interestig to me, let me see how much a hd-dvd BURNER costs, then i can download .iso imgaes of HD-DVD (of course legalally distributed documentary / nature type stuff ;-) The BBC "Planet Earth" looks AWESOME when i input from my computer to the HDTV throughtt the VGA/DVI port. I have never really looked to see how many titles are available for HD-DVD how much do they usually costs? Also does Netflix/Blockbuster have the titles available in big enough quantities? Also, I usually don't watch many Action Movies or CGI stuff mainly comedy and drama so not sure 1080P is really neccesary, Not intersted in Pirates of the Caribbean 3 , finding Nemo etc.. Jeff

    6. Re:I wouldn't buy it by 7Prime · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ummm... no

      Resolution aside, you still get two things that a DVD player won't do: progressive scan, and widescreen. To be honest, the biggest visual difference *I* see between SD and HD is getting rid of interlaced video. NTSC resolution is actually pretty good at the distances you usually watch TV. But with the flicker that interlacing causes, NTSC is crap. SD -> ED is a much bigger jump in quality than ED -> HD. So, for me the difference between 720p and 1080p is a drop in the bucket.

      --
      Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
    7. Re:I wouldn't buy it by JonXP · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I thought the granparent poster had a point until I read this. Of course! How stupid of me to forget that while I'm watching movies, I like to see single frames at a time, so I can get FULL enjoyment out of it. It took me a MONTH to finish the first Star Wars movie, but I sure as heck liked it better than the rest of you losers.

      --
      Still IMing in the stone age?
    8. Re:I wouldn't buy it by evilviper · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Feeding a 1080i or a 1080p signal to a 1080p TV will be EXACTLY the same

      That would be true if your TV has perfect 3:2 pulldown reversal... which doesn't exist.

      Feeding hard telecined 24fps material guarantees artifacts.
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    9. Re:I wouldn't buy it by pinkfloydhomer · · Score: 2

      You're a moron. Storing 25Hz/30Hz progressive content as 50Hz/60Hz interlaced content is a non-lossy process. You can get back the original 25Hz/30Hz progressive content with a simple, deterministic algorithm, regardless of 3:2 pulldown and other issues. (Note: I am talking about 24 fps film to PAL or NTSC here. This is the important case, and also, which is my point here, the trivial case).

      Now, in reality, a lot of releases do exist that has the wrong flagging and so forth, that will make crappy dvd players output a crappy signal that has been de-interlaced in the wrong way.

      But interlacing is not the issue with dvd. The vast amount of dvds will play flawlessly and losslessly progressively if you have a good (or nowadays, just decent) dvd player. And of course you need a progressive display, but virtually all LCDs, plasmas, digital front projectors, back projectors etc. are progressive. If they're not fed a progressive signal from your dvd player, they will deinterlace it themselves. Are you sure you have ever watched a dvd interlaced and "flickering"? You might have, on your old CRT. But HD-DVD and BluRay will also flicker on your old CRT. Because it is an interlaced display.

      The issue with dvd is not interlacing (although it would be nice to get rid of). It is mainly pixel resolution and color resolution (dvd only has half vertical color resolution, to put it shortly). /David

    10. Re:I wouldn't buy it by Shabbs · · Score: 2, Informative

      The only way to avoid the 3:2 pull down is to have a 24fps device. So, a 1080p/24 source (like HD DVD or Blu-ray) output to a 1080p/24 capable display device will eliminate the issue you keep posting about.

      For others, more info about 3:2 pull down (Telecline) can be found here:

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine#3:2_pulldown

      Cheers.

      --
      Mark
    11. Re:I wouldn't buy it by Shabbs · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You've fallen into the Sony Blu-ray marketing trap and 1080p hype they're spinning. Toshiba has two players that put out 1080p: the HD-A20 and the HD-AX2. And, they will soon be getting firmware updates to output at 1080p/24.

      Cheers.

      --
      Mark
    12. Re:I wouldn't buy it by Type-E · · Score: 2, Informative

      All movies are in 1080p 24fps. You have a point though since 1080i is in 1080 interlaced 60fps. If 3:2 pull down is done correctly, 1080i should be able to see as good image as 1080p/24. The problem is not many chip does 3:2 pull down perfectly, and a lot of 1080p LCD cheated with a cheap deinteracing processor that does not perform 1080i to 1080p dot for dot. Thus you loose some of the original signal.

    13. Re:I wouldn't buy it by funfail · · Score: 2, Insightful

      First, it's not like $70 and $75, but rather $99 and $199. Second, the extra feature (1080p) won't do any good for now, and when you are able to use it, there will be $100 players which are better than the ones currently sold for $199.

      --
      Search RapidShare and MegaUpload!
    14. Re:I wouldn't buy it by Keeper · · Score: 2, Interesting

      3:2 pulldown reversal is trivial to perform, and with a digital source (like the one provided via HDMI) is artifact free. If you've got a bad source and really REALLY crappy pulldown detection in your TV, you might go 5 frames (~150ms) before the reversal algorithm resyncs to a new sequence.

      You're omitting the fact that deinterlacing is a difficult and inexact process that horribly mangles video.

      You're omitting the fact that you don't know shit about what you're talking about. Even for straight up interlaced 30fps content, modern motion adaptive deinterlacing algorithms are incredibly effective. Horribly mangles video my ass...

  5. wow by androvsky · · Score: 2, Interesting
    In today's class, we'll look at how to tell who's losing a format war...

    This is why Toshiba's having trouble getting other hardware manufacturers on board, with them selling at such a loss. Sure HD-DVD is supposed to be cheaper than blu-ray for disc pressing, but the players have pretty much the same specs, it can't be that much cheaper for Toshiba to build them.

    1. Re:wow by toleraen · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah, and the R&D probably cost 'em $50, a couple pizzas, a case of beer, and a long weekend.

    2. Re:wow by Locutus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      that was what I was thinking when I read this. What I've noticed recently was that when marketshare numbers where put out on HD players, they would note later on that the PS3 shipments were excluded and that, IMO, shows that HD-DVD is losing. Having to play tricks with market share numbers is one indicator of what's really going on and this price cut also shows who's got to try harder to get customers. Who in their right mind wouldn't pick up a PS3 for their HD video( BluRay ) player when for maybe $100 you get a 3rd Gen game console thrown in?

      To tell you the truth, I also figure Universal and Microsoft are behind this deal since both have tons to lose when HD-DVD fails to gain much marketshare. Universal has partnered with Microsoft and is exclusive to HD-DVD while recently also shutting off Apple from it's music portfolio by not renewing their iTunes license. So Toshiba might not be losing any money on this if it's subsidized by Microsoft and/or Universal.

      While tempting, I still don't want to get caught with a device only supported by such a limited market. Not to mention such a lowend device/player.

      --
      "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
    3. Re:wow by AdmiralWeirdbeard · · Score: 2, Interesting

      While tempting, I still don't want to get caught with a device only supported by such a limited market. Not to mention such a lowend device/player. Thats what i was thinking at first, too, but for $100 for the player, and another couple bucks a month on my netflix, i can have an essentially throw-away player if HD-DVD loses, and not really need to own any movies I'd get stuck with. Its actually kindof a tempting deal if you're willing to just count the $100 as a loss from the get-go.
      --
      Come read my stupid blagablog. Rants and Giggles
  6. To show attendees by the sounds of it by DrXym · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The blog makes it sound like only show attendees may be able to apply for this. I don't see how they could offer it to the general public unless Toshiba was prepared to lose hundreds of millions in a last gasp bid to win the format war.

  7. Dammit by Durrok · · Score: 4, Informative

    The link was there in the preview, I swear! Here it is

    --
    I keep telling myself I'm not the desperate type.
  8. $50 by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 3, Funny

    If only we could get $50 HDI cables to go with it!

    --
    Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    1. Re:$50 by anakin876 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Did you mean HDMI? how about this? $4.79 http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id =102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024004&p_id=2412&seq=1&for mat=2&style=

    2. Re:$50 by sethmeisterg · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I was in Fry's the other day and noticed a number of different manufacturers selling HDMI cables -- Monster at $100, another major brand at $90, then there were the generics for $15. People just don't understand that Monster cables are total overkill for HDMI. If you can see the signal, the cable's good. There is no analog improvement, no matter how much technobabble Monster wants you to think matters.

  9. Just a marketing SCAM! by jsldub · · Score: 4, Informative

    Did you read the fine print in the press release?

    Questex Media Group provides certain customer contact data (such as customers' names, addresses, phone numbers and e-mail addresses) to third parties who with to promote relevant products, services, and other opportunities which may be of interest to you...

  10. Re:That's it, Blu-ray is toast by toleraen · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Wow, a little hopeful are we? If all it took was a one week sale to kill Blu-Ray, they would have done it months ago. This sale isn't going to do jack other than get rid of the lingering inferior toshiba HDDVD player (compared to their other HD DVD Players, see an above post explaining why it sucks) so they can make room for the next revision of their hardware.

  11. Big harry deal! by josquint · · Score: 2

    Its a promotional stunt to promote the conference!

    Now, next time I walk into Mall Wart and see a (name brand) HD-DVD or Blu-ray player for $148.97, then THAT will be a big deal.

  12. Actually there are NO HD-DVD burners yet by DumbSwede · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Are you sure HD-DVD Burners work? I challenge you to find even one for sale. Toshiba announced the first one back in Jan 2007, but it keeps getting delayed. Still no firm ship date. You can find several 2x Blu-Ray burners and 4x and 8x models on the way.

    HD-DVD burners don't work because the layer widths were designed for red light lasers. The duplication process is more like stamping than burning which is why they can get away using the old DVD duplication equipment with some minor retrofitting. Blu-Ray was designed from the start as a burner. There have been Blu-Ray burners since 2005 for over the air transmission recording.

    HD-DVD's whole premise was to be quick and cheap for duplication houses. Since Blu-Ray disc prices are on average cheaper than HD-DVD, these seems not to have mattered.

    --
    Letter To Iran
  13. Is there any confirmation on this? by josquint · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It looks like the only information is an email from a listserve?

    Umm.. I just got several emails promising to enlarge body parts, improve bodily functions, and sell me prescription drugs at unreal prices. An the fax I got the other day lets me in on an offere to go to Disney World for $69. So what?

    So a slashdot article now has come down to some dude posting the cool spam they got?

  14. great deal... by mustafap · · Score: 4, Funny

    > HD-A2 player at $99 for one week only, beginning July 22.

    What, and then we give it back after the weekend?

    --
    Open Source Drum Kit, LPLC deve board - mjhdesigns.com
  15. Re:$99 Betamax Player? by otis+wildflower · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You can keep it.

    Personally, I like having less infringement on my freedom (weaker copy protection, no region coding) and better video quality (initial BR discs were shitty MPEG2 rather than modern MPEG4, 3x the space use yet crappier video?), and avoiding Sony garbage is just a fringe benefit.

    Plus, _The Big Lebowski_, _Heroes_, _Dune_ and _Serenity_ are exclusive. As will be _Scarface_ and the rest of the NBC Universal range.

    You can keep _Star Wars_ and Disney stuff thanks.

    Then again, if I can find a BR player for $199, maybe I'd consider giving it my receiver's remaining HDMI port.

  16. Optic storage is losing the format war by BlueParrot · · Score: 3, Interesting

    We know for sure that SONY cannot win a format war because then the universe would implode. We also know that Toshiba is not winning this format war. The logical conclusion is that the whole HD-DVD concept is about to fail miserably in favour of increased internet bandwidth and magnetic storage. Heck, the standard offers over where I am is already in excess of 5 mbit. By the time either HD DVD format has a chance to overtake DVD ( guessing 5-10 years at least ) it will be more than enough to doom the entire HD-DVD concept. Unless the MPAA can cripple broadband deployment in key markets ( read US ) sufficiently of course.

    1. Re:Optic storage is losing the format war by noidentity · · Score: 2, Funny
      "Optic storage is losing the format war"

      Where will I store my eyeglasses and magnifiers in the future?!?

  17. Re:$99 Betamax Player? by Reapman · · Score: 3, Funny

    Hmmm I just googled to confirm what you said about Serenity... here's something that I thought was rather funny:
    http://www.amazon.com/Is-Serenity-on-Blu-Ray/forum /Fx2OBJXPD8AAL2V/Tx3HBJ73B4L8NHR/1?_encoding=UTF8& asin=B00005JO0J

    "No, Universal is still in the HD DVD-only camp. Annoyingly, Fox is in the Blu-ray camp so if Firefly ever comes out in high-def, it will be a different format from Serenity." :D

  18. Re:Hidden costs by westlake · · Score: 2, Insightful
    You early adopters can go fish.

    The "early adopters" went HD in 2001. HD is mass-market in 2007: ilo 32" Widescreen LCD HDTV w/ Built-in Digital ATSC/NTSC Tuner $500

    Resolution 1366 x 768
    HDMI, S-Video, Component Video, DVI Inputs

  19. Annoying intros,trailers by zymano · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I will be pissed still if we can't FF through those damn things.

    If i buy it I should be able to CONTROL MY DAMN MACHINE.

    Sue the manufacturers?

  20. Won't buy till... by Nonillion · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I for one WON'T be buying till the machines include the following.

    1.15 pin VGA connector
    2.DVI connector
    3.component RCA connectors
    4.composite connector
    5.RF 'F' connector

    I recently looked at several HD-DVD machines, all of them have HDMI and component connectors, NO VGA, no DVI. Uh excuse me, that's NOT good enough. If Toshiba, Sony and others expect me to jump on the HD wagon they're just going to have to offer these connections at FULL RESOLUTION. I am not about to go out and buy another TV just for the HDMI connector. I don't care about the MPAA, I don't pirate their fucking shit anyway. I just want to be able to watch HD on ANY monitor I choose, period.

    --
    "I bow to no man" - Riddick
    1. Re:Won't buy till... by dpaton.net · · Score: 5, Informative

      Sorry, you're delusional. Asking for HD output on a commodity composite connector is like asking for GB ethernet on a cat3 cable.

      Component can only do 1080p over short distances without the addition of expensive repeater boxes or expensive cables.

      VGA is the same.

      An F connector could, if you got people to change to expensive high grade coax and got all the TV manufacturers to put GOOD ATSC tuners in their sets.

      DVI is dead as a consumer A/V interface. It's still great for computers, but it offers no A/V connection capability. People don't like dealing with a mountain of cables. Yes, the change to HDMI was industry driven, but it was also consumer driven. It was generally good thing, despite the inferior connector that HDMI came with.

      If you're really intent on complaining about the HDMI/DVI issue, spend $20 over at Parts Express and get a DVI to HDMI adapter cable. I use two, they work just fine.

      Honestly, your bitching and whining post struck me like someone asking their computer to support dual layer DVDs and magtape at the same time. It's just lame and uneducated.

      I'm not going to get into the DRM argument, but suffice it to say that for the short term, if you want 1080p, you need a digital connection. That means DVI or HDMI. You don't get any other choices. Put up or shut up.

      --
      This is not a sig. this is a duck. quack.
  21. Why 1 week only? by MSTCrow5429 · · Score: 2

    What is the business/marketing logic behind selling them at a presumed loss for 1 week only? I'm quite happy with my cheap Apex DVD player that is maybe 4-5 years old or so, and have no plans to move to anything else, as I'm also quite happy with my 15 year old 20" TV set. It does seem to me that Blue-Ray is far and away the winner of this very brief format war, so maybe this is just an attempt to sell some HD-DVD players while they still can?

    --
    Slashdot: Playing Favorites Since 1997
  22. Universal movies are on HD DVD, not BD by tepples · · Score: 2, Funny

    Is this "Blue Ray" related to Ray Charles? No. Ray (2004) is published by Universal, one of the two major film studios that are boycotting Blu-ray Disc. (The other is Weinstein Company.)