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Computer Science or Info Tech?
An anonymous reader writes "I am currently completing my final year of secondary schooling, and in the next few weeks I need to submit my university (or college to all you Americans) preferences for processing. I've decided that I want a career in the IT industry, but am unsure of whether to apply for a Computer Science course or an Information Technology course. I understand the difference between the two courses (CS being the study of the principles and concepts involved in Computing at a more fundamental, and often more sophisticated level, and IT being a more practical, application based approach to computing), but would like to know from anybody who has studied either or both of the courses what kinds of careers each course would lead into and what would you recommend for someone such as myself, having a broad range of interests and wishing to dabble in everything before deciding where to specialise?"
So which do you prefer being - A system admin (follow IT) or a programmer (follow CS). They are not mutually exclusive. As a system admin I do a lot of programming. My boss in my last job favorite question was - "How can we automate this?". I like being a system admin myself - I get out of the cubicle more that way.
:^P
p.s. first post and actually fairly on topic
For most people qualifications only serve to prove a minimum standard of competence. Yes, a degree is both necessary and a good choice - it helps develop your skills, and also makes you eligible for jobs where someone has made a degree a check box requirement - but other than getting past the first round it makes little difference to the prospect of being hired.
So instead of worrying exactly which degree to take, just get the one that you think you will enjoy most. It's going to be your life for years - if you don't enjoy it, it'll kill you. I did engineering, because it was fun, and I got offers from the IT industry when I graduated as well as elsewhere. There were plenty of people with maths and physics degrees heading into IT as well.
Much more important is to get employment in the right field. Even if it's an unpaid weekend job, or summers doing network admin stuff. Steady employment and a track record is much more impressive than anything most of your competitors will have at the start of the mad rush to hire graduates. The closer it is to your field the better, and if you can pick a company that will keep having you back and give you more impressive things to do that's great.
Even if they (or you) don't want to turn things permanent after college, then you will already have a headstart on networking in your field, proof you can work for a week in an office without putting laxative in the coffee and good things to talk about at interviews.
Think of the Children; Sleep with your Sister
Is it just me or does this question (or a variant thereof) seem to appear at least every couple months?
"It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance." - Thomas Sowell
Bump.
:(
Avoid information degrees like the plague. They're half assed awards aiming at the market a poor programer will find easy - mostly web systems. I believe in a hierarchy of programming and sadly the information or enterprise courses aim to make web monkeys - web monkeys find it harder to breakout of their web niche which is quickly becoming over populated with causal programmers (who are coming more and more skilled!) such as college grads and drop outs.
I did a software engineering degree with electronics (Computer Systems)... Most of my computing modules were all Computer Science, the rest were extended project classes, instead of more pointless CS with distracting formal theory. Quite often the formal theory is there to make the theory more abstract and thus something to teach, when it shouldn't be any harder than memorising precedent and flow.
A lot of universities offering CS courses should really be rename them to Software Engineering. My best advice would be to check the course syllabus and and pick one with a strong software engineering focus, and plenty of time to do that "wow" dissertation you want.
If you can't talk about your dissertation in geek, it's probably not specialised enough. Some of my "peers" created a DVD, others a website, and one a relational back end to a portal... I'm ashamed to admit that because they used some formal theory (ie: design models) the could score highly. To date I believe none of them understand the languages they used nor the concepts they copied. The standard of code was also extremely poor.
Hths,
Matt
If intellectual challenge, working with bright classmates, and self-respect is worth anything to you, MIS is a trap that you'll have to fight your way out of.
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
That's a thoughtful post, but the idea in it all that I like best is this: Don't make up your mind so easily.
Unless you're stubbornly sticking to a single path, going through college will probably change your view of where you'd like to be in 10 years. And then after you get out of college, setting out in the real world may change that view again. Working for 10 years on a given career path might make you want to change paths, or even change careers altogether. Things change more often than young people imagine. The life expectancy is more than 80 years these days, and you have no idea what mutations your life will undergo in that amount of time. Certainly, whatever path you pick for the time being, it'd be best to work your ass off and try to excel. You should work at it as though it might be your permanent path, but it may not be.
I've taken a bit of a strange path myself. I've been fixing computers for money since I was 10 and holding down IT jobs since I was 16. I started out a Computer Science major, hated it, and switched over to being a Philosophy major (of all things) with a minor in Literature. After college, I had a brief stint as a professional writer of sorts, hated it, and went back to fixing computers. In the years since, I've worked my way up from being a helpdesk tech to being an executive.
Honestly, I don't think the most important thing you learn in college is the subject matter of your particular major. The *most* important thing is learning how to work and to think in some way that works for you. You have to learn to juggle a lot of work, how to deal with people, and how to communicate your ideas. You learn how to make friends and how to cope with unexpected situations.
Even with subject matters as technical as computer science and information technology, the direct applicability of what you've been taught in classes will be limited. In real life situations, real life experience will serve you well. In my years of working in IT, looking at formal education and certifications never seemed to be a good sign of whether that person would be able to fix problems or to keep things running well. Surprisingly, I've found my philosophy studies have helped me get jobs and helped me do well in the industry.
I'm weary of giving advice and I'm certainly not advising that people take up philosophy as a means to getting a computer job. I guess I'm just saying that your life probably won't take a straight line, and you'll just have to find your own path. There is no "right answer".
Double major.
The above is a little inflammatory, but essentially correct. There is no job you could get as a IT major that you could not get as a CS major. There are many, many jobs you could get as a CS major that you would _not_ get as an IT major. Additionally, you may find yourself _interested_ in the science-y aspects of CS, and perhaps even go on to graduate school -- an avenue which would not only be blocked off as an IT major, but of whose existence you would not even be aware.
Choose scientist over technician.
Ratio of replies to old sig content : replies to actual post content > 0.5. Sig changed.
It may be harder to land that killer job at your dream company right out of school, but if you're like most people, you'll grow and change over the years, and you'll look back and think to yourself that you're so glad you didn't get that job, or even better, how funny it is that you're now running the company that didn't take you as an entry level employee.
Liberal arts are severely underappreciated in this world. The more bright, interesting people who refuse to over-focus too early in their careers, the better the world will be; please do your part.
So study your technology. But this is an undergraduate degree; treat it like a beginning, not an end. The race is a long one, and you really don't need to be going full speed out of the gate.
The CB App. What's your 20?
If you think your accounting degree was harder to get than a CS degree, then (at least) one of these is true:
(i) You went to a school with a really bad "diploma mill" CS program, and the CS courses you took for your minor reflected this.
(ii) As a CS minor, you avoided the hard CS classes, the stuff that CS majors have to learn that sets computer scientists apart from code monkeys.
Seriously. Accounting isn't a bullshit non-degree like most business degrees -- good accountants have to be reasonably smart people, and they have real skills -- but it doesn't require anywhere near the level of intellectual effort that a good CS degree does.
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
I graduated from school 6 years ago, and don't remember any of the details from my studies... however, the process (math heavy) of CS remains valuable. The MBA I picked up later rounded out my skill set, but if I had taken an accounting course or two plus a general management course or two, I could have saved the time and cash and gotten it later.
Right out of school, IT may be the more useful degree. Why CS grads can get any IT jobs easily, if the outsourced HR recruiting firm is looking for IT, you'll struggle, because if you can't check the boxes, you don't get the interviews. However, your first job should be on-campus recruiting, so if you're careful, it won't make a difference.
Ten or fifteen years out, we'd all like to think that nobody cares about degrees, but it isn't true. Once you move up the food chain a bit, management LIKES degreed people. They are happy to hire programmers with high school degrees or even drop outs that can sling code, but once they need a technical lead, they don't want the gut without the degree. Sure, plenty of people will post here about how they are just fine without the degree, but it is a limitation, and the original poster has already decided to get the degree.
In 15 years, the IT degree will seem like a slightly upgrade Vo-Tech degree, and the CS degree will seem like a real engineering degree. This shouldn't matter, but it will. When you start dealing with managers with Ivy League (equivalent in your case) degrees and pedigrees, they'll see the CS-guy as one of them but more technical, they'll see the IT guy as below them.
Think nobody will care in 15 years what you did in your early 20s? Most people are unimpressive, they don't really do much during their life... for those people, their MOST measurable accomplishments are schooling, so they trade on it, and respect others that do as well. Hell, my high school, that I went to for three years, remains on my resume, because it's the top school in my area, and most of the people I interview with are trying to send their kids there (or are sending their kids there), and after fighting with the increasingly draconian admissions process, figure anyone that went there must be top notch.
You never know what will help in the future, so run with it.
In regards to the statement, "which enables you to learn almost any language in a day"
Seems the CS course didn't teach you enough about anything to know that NO modern language can be learned in one day by ANYBODY.
The REAL computer specialists know just how much they DON'T know and hit the books to learn.
If some CS guy came to me for a job and had no experience and said he could learn VB or SQL in one day, I only hope he wouldn't hit his ass on the door too hard on the way out.
The truth is, having a college degree of any kind is a plus to your career. But once you've worked, job experience is more important. After my first job, no one asked me about my college courses, they only wanted to know what I had done in my previous jobs.
So, the best choice is the one that works best for you. Based on people I've known and their degrees, I'd say follow this general rule:
- EE: If you have been tearing apart gadgets forever, and lately had a lot of success putting them back together, go for it. The math is really hard, but if you can get thru it, the pay and job security is pretty good.
- CS: If you have been writing programs that do more than simple displays, and you enjoy reading technical articles, this is a good choice. The current growth fields are embedded systems and business-to-business web apps (AJAX and SOAP).
- IT: If you like installing the latest version of everything, and you don't hesitate to open your PC to install boards, you can make a career our of IT. The pay isn't as good, but the job security may be better than CS, because they can't offshore hands-on jobs.
Regardless of your choice, learn as much as you can fit into your schedule about the rest of the business. If you are a CS or IT major, take a couple EE courses. If you are an EE, take at least 1 high level programming class, and maybe an intro to operating systems.
For everyone, learn how to interview!!! I have interviewed many job applicants, and it is pure agony to have to drag information out of people who apparently really want the job. I would rather have to shut you up than beg you to tell me what you know. But do not claim to be someone you're not. You will be found out, and that can be a disaster.
Later . . . Jim
"you don't need a CS/IT degree to work in the field"
Right, but non-degrees are going to be paid 10-20k less than degreed people. Employers love non-degreed, skilled people.