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1935 Meccano "Dam Busters" Computer Restored

rob1959 writes "A 1935 analog computer, built at Cambridge University and used to help plan the Dam Busters attacks on the Ruhr hydro dams in World War II, has been restored and put on display at Auckland's Museum of Transport and Technology. The computer came to NZ around 1950 and was used, ironically, to build hydro dams there — and to calculate rabbit population numbers."

31 of 175 comments (clear)

  1. Grandaddy rulez by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    gR4NP4 W45 4 l337 H4x0R, 0Wn3d 7H023 N421 m0F05 l0L.

    1. Re:Grandaddy rulez by fatmal · · Score: 5, Funny

      This is /. - we're likely to be the last of our family lines!

    2. Re:Grandaddy rulez by FlopEJoe · · Score: 4, Funny

      Anyone working on this was likely to be your great-grandfather, not grandfather. New generations usually start every 20-30 years.

      Hmmm... my father was born in the 1930's making my grandfather old enough to be working on this project (not that he did). And, may I add, "Git off me lawn you young whipper-snappers!"

    3. Re:Grandaddy rulez by MichaelSmith · · Score: 4, Informative

      Anyone working on this was likely to be your great-grandfather, not grandfather. New generations usually start every 20-30 years.

      I am 41 and my Grandfather was the right age to be working on this during WW2.

  2. Rabbits? by lordperditor · · Score: 3, Funny

    Would of thought they needed the sheep population controlled more than the rabbits...

    1. Re:Rabbits? by Silver+Sloth · · Score: 4, Informative

      That just shows that you don't understand about rabbits - one of the major plagues down under. I'm not sure if it's as bad in NZ as it is in Australia but it's far from trivial.

      --
      init 11 - for when you need that edge.
    2. Re:Rabbits? by MichaelSmith · · Score: 3, Informative

      rabbits - one of the major plagues down under

      A woman about 20 years older than me told how her dad took the family on a holiday to Adelaide when she was a kid. All the way there and back (to Melbourne) they had to stop every 50 miles to scrape the rabbit carcases out of the wheel bays.

    3. Re:Rabbits? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      No, the kiwis are quite happy with the sheep population ever since they discovered a fabulous new benefit - it seems apart from the obvious use, you can get meat and wool from them as well.

    4. Re:Rabbits? by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 3, Interesting

      ...scrape the rabbit carcases out of the wheel bays

      Is this the Australian equivalent of walking to school through the snow, uphill both ways?

    5. Re:Rabbits? by CmdrGravy · · Score: 2, Funny

      They should just introduce foxes to Australia, foxes eat rabbits - problem solved, what could possibly go wrong.

      Or cats can eat rabbits too if they're hungry enough so maybe increasing the cat population in rabbit infested areas would help.

    6. Re:Rabbits? by mrsym0r · · Score: 3, Funny

      we know exactly how many sheep we have here in New Zealand, just the same as everyone else in the world knows how many lovers they have too.

  3. Call me off-topic but by Silver+Sloth · · Score: 5, Informative

    TFA also mentions the recent sad death of Donald Michie - a major force in early British computing. I had the honour of working with him on 'Freddy' the robot back in 1973 - back when the UK led the world in robotics.

    --
    init 11 - for when you need that edge.
    1. Re:Call me off-topic but by tiluki · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Yes, a very sad loss. I was not sure anyone (surprisingly) on Slashdot picked this up.

      I was privileged to attend his final talk the week before, given at Edinburgh. The video is now actually available here (for a while): http://www.inf.ed.ac.uk/events/jamboree/2007/

      This was absolutely fascinating, and I listened spellbound for an hour and a half. Do not be misled by the title as it covered much of the early development of AI in Britain (not just at Edinburgh). Analogous with the actual topic of this story, it details another, very early "physical computer" MENACE - constructed of matchboxes and beads.

      A fuller obituary (that goes way beyond his short involvement with Turing) is here: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/obituarie s/article2061886.ece

      Truly a great pioneer and inspiration for us modern researchers in AI.

  4. I knew virtually nothing about this... by gardyloo · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'd heard of the famous skipping bombs, and knew basically how they worked. But I'd never heard of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Chastise, nor the book (or movie) "The Dam Busters". Additionally, it seems that Robert Jackson will produce a remake of the 1954 movie. Most fascinating to me, though, is this Meccano computer. Those engineers were brilliant.

    1. Re:I knew virtually nothing about this... by MichaelSmith · · Score: 5, Interesting

      the book (or movie) "The Dam Busters".

      I read the book years ago. In it the designers built a tank and used marbles as scale model bombs. It doesn't say anything about a computer used in the design. I wonder if information about the computer was left out for reasons of security.

  5. Dam Buster Sucked! by kamapuaa · · Score: 4, Informative
    Historically, the attack served no real purpose, and the main victim was Ukrainian POWs. Quoting Wikipedia:

    Operation Chastise did not have the military effect that was at the time believed. By 27 June, full water output was restored, thanks to an emergency pumping scheme inaugurated only the previous year, and the electricity grid was again producing power at full capacity. The raid proved to be costly in lives (more than half the lives lost belonging to allied POWs), but in fact no more than a minor inconvenience to the Ruhr's industrial output.

    In his book Inside the Third Reich, Albert Speer expressed puzzlement at the raids; destruction of one of the dams served no purpose at all, he claimed, and the failure to follow up with additional raids represented a major lost opportunity for the Allies.

    --
    Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
    1. Re:Dam Buster Sucked! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Historically the attack had a significant purpose, although generally lost on many. Quoting the minor footnote in the same wikipedia article:

      "An important reason for planning the raid was to persuade Stalin that Britain was capable of being an effective ally ... The Dams Raid enabled Churchill, in negotiations with the leaders of these new allies, to point to an effective strike against the hitherto apparently invincible German state so that he was taken more seriously as an ally than might otherwise have been the case. This was relevant vis-à-vis Stalin but also in the USA. Although Churchill had the sympathetic ear of Roosevelt, many of the US military staff had until then been less persuaded of the value of British experience and capabilities.[6]"

    2. Re:Dam Buster Sucked! by WillAdams · · Score: 5, Interesting

      However, some 20,000 workers were diverted for months from building the Atlantic sea wall defences to repair the dams, which had far-reaching effects on D-Day.

      William

      --
      Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
    3. Re:Dam Buster Sucked! by igb · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well, on the assumption that you're an American, one might say ``just like your President''. But in that, the problem of Stalin's anger about the lack of a second front was a major political issue, and the consequences for Britain had there been no demonstration of good faith with the Russians during 1943 would have been serious. The Russian Army was, indeed, taking most of the brunt of the second world war at that point, in a town on the Volga.

    4. Re:Dam Buster Sucked! by vrai · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Churchill's job was to win the war and ensure that the British interests were treated favourably in the aftermath; while Operation Chastise didn't do much for the former it was a helpful boost of towards achieving the latter. There's also the propaganda value of such a media friendly attack, important after three years of war without any major offensive victories outside of North Africa. Far more people and capital have been sacrificed for far less reward.

  6. Re:Jeeze by skoaldipper · · Score: 3, Funny

    No. From the picture, thank God the work dress code got more casual. I'm guessing with motor oil and 3 piece suits, there was a laundromat next door.

    --
    I hope, when they die, cartoon characters have to answer for their sins.
  7. Re:Apple reference by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I think the Mac floppy disk controller had an IWM chip in it though, didn't it? That was definitely a Woz invention -- it was the original Apple ][ floppy software reduced to a chip. IWM = Integrated Woz Machine.

    Interestingly enough, the development of the Data General mini was written into a book, "The Soul of a New Machine" which was one of the first attempts to capture the group dynamics of a high-technology R&D effort in the world of computers. Good read.

    --
    Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
  8. What's not mentioned by faloi · · Score: 4, Funny

    The rabbit population metrics were actually being used to determine how many rabbits it would take to destroy a dam. The dams the computer was used to build were just intended to be targets.

    --
    "It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." -Albert Einstein
  9. You've just cherry-picked the worst paragraphs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Tactically, the dam raid did not cause the catastrophic industrial disruption which had been hoped for, and the lack of a follow-up raid to suppress repairs meant that the Germans could recover. But strategically, Wikki has this to say:

    " The strategic view
    The Dams Raid was, like many British air raids, undertaken with a view to the need to keep drawing German defensive effort back into Germany and away from actual and potential theatres of ground war, a policy which culminated in the Berlin raids of the winter of 1943-44. In May 1943 this meant keeping the Luftwaffe and anti-aircraft defence forces' effort away from the Soviet Union; in early 1944, it meant clearing the way for the aerial side of the forthcoming Operation Overlord.

    By far the greatest and most unexpected effect was on German food production. The Ruhr valley below the dams was a major source of vital food for Germany, and large areas of arable land were rendered unusable and huge numbers of farm animals were killed. This had an immediate negative effect on German morale. In addition, the pictures of the broken dams proved to be a morale boost to the Allies, especially to the British, still suffering under German bombing."

    And of course, a major effect was to pursuade Harris to support Barnes Wallis's greatest contribution, the Tallboy and Grand Slam supersonic precision earth penetrators. These stopped the V2 and the V3, and sunk the Tirpitz, and well as the U-Boat pens at St Nazaire. The Americans wished they had something like them, and are only now developing something similar for use against Iran.

  10. Re:But our president is a douchebag. by freedom_india · · Score: 3, Informative

    Churchill's main support base was the opposition and not his own party.
    The opposition cheered him and wanted him as PM after Sir Neville Chamberlain was unable to halt Hitler by appeasement.

    Please read the six volumes of Second World War written by Churchill.
    Am right now reading Gathering Storm after reading Heinz Guderian's Panzer Leader.

    --
    "Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
  11. Differential Analyser in "When Worlds Collide" by ishmalius · · Score: 3, Informative

    If you want to see a short clip (in color) of one of those devices in action, watch the George Pal version of "When Worlds Collide." (1951) In the script, one is used to verify the trajectory of the approaching planet.

  12. Re:I thought the Dam Busters were American... by pohl · · Score: 2, Informative
    I wonder how they knocked down a dam?

    The entry for Bouncing Bomb has a helpful animated illustration. And, of course, the entry for Operation Chastise is head and shoulders above the site that TFA links to.

    --

    The "cue the foo posts in 3, 2, 1..." posts will commence with no subsequent foo posts in 3, 2, 1...

  13. Right, using a nazi to judge the impact by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    A, the raid was the first major blow the allies, especially england, managed to land againt the seeminly invincible germans. The raid proved that the germans could be hit, and deep inside their own country too. Morale matters, ask the americans about it sometime.(Vietnam, current conflict)

    B, it forced german forces to be relocated inland to defend other possible targets from air attack. Every piece of equipment and soldier NOT at the front meant german fighting power was reduced.

    C, the damage had to be repaired and this took precious resources the german never had enough off.

    D, you are taking the word of a nazi about how effective an allied action was? Why don't we ask Microsoft for the their honest review of the PS3 next?

    E, this one is a bit more complex and requires you to think for a bit, something I doubt you are capable off.

    German war production was on the rise. Lets say at the start of the year I have a car factory that produces 1000 cars each month. BUT I am also increasing production every month by 100 cars. So by the end of the year I should be producing 2200 cars right?

    Okay, now you bomb that in may (production has rissen to 1500 cars) factory. I am out of action for say a mere 2 months. I then claim that I august am producing the same number of cars as before the bombing, namely 15 cars.

    AH, all is well right?

    Not exactly, first I am missing the production of june/juli 1600 and 1700 cars PLUS I should have product 1800 cars in augustus, NOT 1500.

    The statement "back to pre-XXXXX levels" is a standard piece of mis-information that the stupid, like you, always fall for.

    What counts is what wasn't produced during that period and how much it has slowed the growth of the economy.

  14. Calculating machine, but no computer by blind+biker · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This kind of devices were used to calculate differential equations using hydro-mechanical analogues of differentiators and integrators. Basically, this sort of calculating machine would be easiest implemented today, using operational amplifiers and discrete components such as resistors and capacitors (or even inductances).

    To be honest, in 1935 there were electronic tubes, and such a machine could have been implemented with them, therefore electronically. But probably the complexity and low reliability of electronic tubes of the time had rendered it unviable.

    --
    "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
  15. Re:You've just cherry-picked the worst paragraphs. by jafiwam · · Score: 3, Funny

    The Dams Raid was, like many British air raids, undertaken with a view to the need to keep drawing German defensive effort back into Germany and away from actual and potential theatres of ground war, a policy which culminated in the Berlin raids of the winter of 1943-44. In May 1943 this meant keeping the Luftwaffe and anti-aircraft defence forces' effort away from the Soviet Union; in early 1944, it meant clearing the way for the aerial side of the forthcoming Operation Overlord. For you new generation folks:

    The Dams Raid was, like many British air raids, basically base camping to keep the uber-GER clan from capping flags and holding the helo spawn point. Though the RUS clan was previously unimpressed, it let them get four levels higher on the PWNAGE ladder. Three BRIT-"lol-nub" team tipped the scales and made some righteous Fraps vids for Youtube.
  16. My analog computer experience by KenSeymour · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In the early '80s, I bought a used, rack-mounted electronic device. I also got some
    analog multipliers along with them.

    I took it to work where they had oscilloscopes I could use. One of the owners
    of the company recognized what it was and told me it was an analog computer.

    It had op-amp boards in it with a power backplane (you need +15 and -15 volts plus ground
    for example). On the end of each board was a row of holes connected to various inputs
    and outputs on the board.

    There were other boards with nails coming out of them, that you could solder together
    to make a "program". So you could switch from one program to another by pulling
    out all the boards with nails and wires, re-arranging the op-amp boards, and putting in a different
    set of boards with nails and wires.

    I was in college at the time and they guy who explained how it all worked was
    Ro Favreau. He had worked with analog computers for solving artillery
    trajectory problems.

    I remember fondly talking to him about it all and learning. I hope I will be able to pass on something I've learned over the years to some young man or woman engineer.

    --
    "We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them." -- Albert Einstein