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School District To Parents — Buy Office 2007

WS Nick writes "Batavia school district in Illinois is recommending that parents of high school students upgrade their home computers to Microsoft Office 2007. Why not use one of the free alternatives and relieve parents of some of the financial burden they face to buy all the stuff for their children the school requires?" A comment from a reader points out how easy it is to interoperate with Office 2007 from earlier versions.

17 of 632 comments (clear)

  1. Just a quick question? by R3mix · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why is it that so many school districts are so quick to buy expensive Micro$soft software when free (and sometimes better) alternatives exist, then turn around and complain about not having enough money?

    1. Re:Just a quick question? by tomstdenis · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Probably a combination of incompetence and payoffs. Just because you have "IT staff" doesn't mean they really know shit all about software or how to build a workstation/server/etc. Way more people look at an MCSE as "advanced education" than simply using google to find OSS alternatives that work.

      And in the end, where are the parents not pushing back?

      Of course when I went to high school, teachers only accepted work in plain old "dead tree" format. And were not talking about the 60s or 70s, but the 90s. Sure at home I might have had Wordpad [god bless...] at my disposal, but the teacher wouldn't except work in that format, so I'd have to print it off at home or school.

      Why can't kids just render their work in PDF format [and same for the prof], then let the creator worry about what tool they'll use. For science type classes, all you really need is to make sure the student includes all the calculations/observations to prove that they did the work.

      Tom

      --
      Someday, I'll have a real sig.
  2. Expected from Establishment by epistemiclife · · Score: 3, Insightful
    It doesn't seem to be altogether unreasonable to recommend that students upgrade. It isn't as though the upgrade is being mandated. The school district is likely just trying to minimize problems.

    It is a bit strange to propound that managing interoperability between the two versions is a tedious process. I think that a sheet of paper with instructions would be sufficient, even for the most computer illiterate students, few though they may be.

    Concerning free alternatives, I don't think that we should expect widespread adoption of things such as OpenOffice, at least in public schools, for quite some time. Not all teachers are geeks, and they want to use that which they are accustomed to using. Even the slightest change can throw some people off.

    This is quite a contrast to, say, university computer science departments, which are often filled with Linux computers, while the rest of the campus uses a plethora of Microsoft suites. It's just a different culture, with different expectations of what their computers and their computer software should do. When I tried to get my parents, who are not computer illiterate, to use OpenOffice, they became irritated, because they didn't want to have to learn something new. They just want it to work as expected, so that they can do what they need to do, in the way that they know how to do it. That's not unreasonable.

    When moving to a new system, one must always weigh the cost, in time (and, consequently, money), of educating the people in the new software. Most of the world uses Microsoft Office. Unless someone releases something so similar to Office that it is nearly indistinguishable, this will likely remain unchanged, no matter how equal or superior the alternatives, free or not, are.

  3. Irresponsible Tax Expenditures by aldheorte · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Given the high cost of education now, with education costs often comprising the vast majority of the municipal budget, especially for small towns, it is highly irresponsible for schools *not* to be considering and using as much free software as possible. If they are further going to drag parents into it, then it is doubly true as it becomes just another tax, unless companies are willing to provide free software to both schools and parents. Commercial software companies such as Microsoft have every right to a profit motive, but school districts also have a responsibility to use the least expensive recourse and there is no sustainable argument that commercial software is better than free software for education purposes at this point.

  4. Re:Why not? by Wordsmith · · Score: 5, Insightful

    First of all, school isn't (strictly) about job preparation; it's about education. And they'll encounter any variety of things in the corporate world, not just Office. If their skills are good, they'll adjust to whatever they've got put in front of them. School is most importantly about learning to learn.

    But aside from all that, if schools start using, say, OpenOffice, you might start to see corporations do the same. And since it's taxpayers funding the software acquisition, I'd rather the district stick to the free option so long as it works well enough for the students' purposes.

  5. And we all know that kids can only learn one thing by khasim · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yeah, it sucks that they are going to a non-free option where the cheapest version is about $150 USD, but guess what - that is what the kids will see in the corporate world by the time they graduate from college.

    And we all know that kids are incapable of learning more than one piece of computer software in any genre.

    Which is why video game sales failed. Once the kids learned to play Tetris, they couldn't learn to play Counter-Strike.

    Everyone knows that you cannot teach the kids HOW to write. And then leave it to them or their employer to teach them the keystrokes/mouse moves for the word processor that they will be using. You have to teach them on the only software package they'll ever be able to use for the rest of their lives.
  6. Re:BECAUSE THERE IS NO FREE ALTERNATIVE by JonLatane · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Repeat after me: Excel is not a database. Excel is not a database. Excel is not a database.

    And spreadsheets work fine in OOo.

  7. This is just hilarious by wamerocity · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've always found it funny that every time you install a new version of Windows, during the blue install screen it keeps popping up features that are new about this version of the operating system. I specifically recall going from 98SE to ME (which was a nightmare, I might add) and laughing audibly at the "We have made keeping your photos and music organized easier than ever!" and "Now ME makes it simpler to use your computer to do..." Basically, these were all vaporware statements.

    With that said, aside from it being "easier than ever to do..." can someone give me a REAL example of how office has changed from 2000 to 2007? I'm serious, I want to know what features have been added (and I don't mean changed to the GUI that make it prettier) that actually ADD FUNCTIONALITY. This is the real reason that this story makes me mad. I don't believe that it has really changed at all, let alone enough to charge me a $100+ to upgrade.

    All I know is that 2007 is looking to be the first step for Microsoft to begin its DRM document implementation where it can lock down it's DOC format that will require people to stay with a certain level of Office or higher if they don't want to lose their documents.
    --
    "Thank you for using Stop-n-Drop, America's favorite suicide booth since 2008"
    1. Re:This is just hilarious by MartinB · · Score: 5, Insightful

      1) No more freaking menus and dialog boxes
      Otherwise known as 'break the interface paradigm that people know, which makes it *harder* to use'. Ask anyone who actually knows anything about usability - the easiest interface is the one you know.

      2) Better looking documents in less time
      Entirely subjective, and lacking in comparisons - the 'than what?' bit.

      3) Royalty-free clip art
      Which every previous version of Office has had, is entirely useless anyway, and can be found on a thing called the Internet. Heard of it?

      4) Enhanced copy-paste functions
      Old ones worked fine. Enhanced how? And with what actual benefit?

      5) Diagrams (see Smart Art)
      Thanks, but if you're needing real diagramming, then you'll probably find a diagramming tool for less than the price of Office.

      6) Equation editor
      Also available in competing products, but how often used?

      7) PDF writing
      Free add-ons everywhere; freely available in OO.o and in any OSX SW.

      8) Bulit-in APA/MLA styles
      So, one template's worth, probably not useful outwith the USA. Big deal.

      9) Track Changes
      Has been part of Word since at least version 2.

      10) Mail Merge
      Has been part of Word since at least version 2.

      11) XML format
      But not an open, standard XML format.

      12) Sharing with others (SharePoint, Groove, etc)
      Is that a feature of Word, or one of Sharepoint? Double counting, I think. Besides, the usecase for collaborative authoring in education isn't that prevalent.

      13) Live Grammar and Spell Check
      Again, an old feature - explain what's better about it.

      14) AutoCorrect
      Again, an old feature - explain what's better about it.

      15) Visual Basic
      Again, an old feature - explain what's better about it.

      16) DRM (the kind that corporations need to keep their docs secret)
      Not necessary in education.

      And when/if you can respond to those, please explain the *benefits* resulting - features are for the birds. How does it make my *education* better?
      --

      The only thing you can accurately describe as "Scotch" is a sticky tape made by 3M. And it's

  8. Re:Why not? by SRA8 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    >>By the way, Batavia, IL isn't exactly a poor area. I bet most of the families in that Chicago suburb could afford the $150 expense.

    The other arguments have be handled so I'll tackle this one. When you say "most" of the families can afford $150, what about the rest? Frankly, schools should NEVER allow a rich student to get disadvantages over poorer ones. There are enough ways to do so already (private turoring, cliff notes, etc.) Why mandate a new one?

  9. Re:BECAUSE THERE IS NO FREE ALTERNATIVE by Anthony+Baby · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It lacks nothing a junior would need, but it's still a tough call. I feel schools have a duty to give children the skills they will need in order to make it. In this era, I think that means having rudimentary word processing skills. Maybe I'm off-base. MS Office is a de facto standard for business communications, and so forcing students to learn it and develop skills in it is a good thing. We're not talking about merely teaching kids to type documents on a computer. Were that the case, DOS and PFS First Choice would suffice... Man, I hated that program. Still, this decision has an unfortunate effect of steering potentionally new and uninformed computer users straight to Microsoft, and it forces parents to spend a lot of money on a product their kids really don't need.

    I would have standardized on an output format, and then provide a list of applications capable of producing output to that standard. If you're capable of writing a term paper to spec using an old edition of Adobe PageMaker, all power to you. But what do I know, I'm only a scientist who things about shit like this all the time. The decision makers at the school district don't think about these things, and probably only considered Word Perfect as an alternative. We're dealing with an audience that likely buys all of their software shrink-wrapped, so it makes sense that OO.o wasn't chosen.

  10. Re:Mod Parent Up by sykopomp · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I kind of agree with what you're saying, even thought it sounds a bit trollish. OpenOffice doesn't have the sheer number of included templates, clipart, special fonts, etc, that people love using so much. People don't want to mess around with things to do something that Word lets you do by just clicking on the initial stuff. And as much as I dislike 2007, I gotta hand it to them for reworking the interface so much. I guess there's still a bit of innovation left in 'em. On the other hand, Microsoft Office is the only suite that can afford innovation. Anything else that wants to pick up market share ends up (with good reason) copying everything Office can do. Sometimes, you can't afford to innovate until you have a market share that actually has integers left of the decimal point.

  11. Re:BECAUSE THERE IS NO FREE ALTERNATIVE by erroneus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Here I go feeding the trolls again.

    Let me ask this:

    What is "wrong" with Office 2003? Forget about opposition to OO.o. Why upgrade to 2007? If there is something wrong with 2003, what is it?

    I'm really stuck for a business case for the upgrade... what might it be?

    Upgrading is a viral problem the way I see it. And without using Microsoft as an example, I'll turn to Adobe instead. There's this supposed standard we call "PDF." Once upon a time, I was looking over some job opportunities. The forms needed for the application process were in "PDF" format. The problem was that my PDF viewers kept prompting me for a password to view them. When I contacted the potential employer about the password issue, they told me there was no password.

    As it turned out, the "password" or key in this case was to use Adobe Acrobat Reader 8. There is something about 8's new format that stopped me from being able to open it with anything else. So much for it being a "standard" and "portable" format. While I'm sure that this problem will be addressed in subsequent OSS PDF readers, it would seem that Adobe has introduced some changes that keeps the target for "compatibility" and "portability" moving.

    In the end, business and other non-entertainment computing is largely about data acquisition, processing, storage and presentation. For acquisition and storage to keep going into the future, "standards" must be maintained. As "standards" keep changing, problems are introduced. If these standards are owned and kept as secret, this limits potential for data acquisition and storage to that which the owners of the secrets are willing to support. They keep the secrets and ultimately our data.

    When computing was a young and developing thing, the value of new technologies and progressiveness trumped compatibility. We are either in a plateau or at a level of maturity in technology such that truly new and novel technologies are rare and the value of these new technologies does not trump compatibility or interoperability with our ever-growing pool of archival data. (I'll remind all readers that there is clear example and precedent where new technologies are often suppressed in order to perpetuate an existing business models which may explain the plateau or apparent maturity of information technology as we know it.)

    The irony of the maturity of information technology is that there's a great deal less true motivation for "upgrading." It is my view that people have just grown accustomed to "upgrading" without thinking about it. Costs involved are often just written into the budget and on and on... fortunately, people ARE, in fact, asking that crucial question: "WHY?"

  12. Re:Well, crap is the norm in the real world by domatic · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When I was an HS, WordPerfect was the "unalterable-never-ever-change-"Business Standard". I feel soooo fortunate that I'm well schooled in the "Business Standard".

  13. Re:BECAUSE THERE IS NO FREE ALTERNATIVE by wvmarle · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Schools should be teaching how to use computers.

    They are not supposed to teach "click here, then this happens, click there, to do that" just Microsoft software.

  14. Re:BECAUSE THERE IS NO FREE ALTERNATIVE by mrchaotica · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Not to be a Microsoft apologist (please see my history of posting) but I have to say that your approach is wrong. Inserting a table with at least two columns and one row would be all that is needed. Justification in the individual cells would serve the task nicely.

    No, your approach is wrong. Why? Because semantically, it's not a table, it's a heading! If you hack up your document using a table instead you might still get the same visual effect, but the structure of it will still be very, very Wrong.

    Among other things, this would screw up the outlining function, table of contents, parsing by search engines, parsing by text-to-speech engines, etc.

    Of course, then you get into the issue that everything Word-like programs do is Wrong, and that people ought to be marking up their documents in some semantic markup language (e.g. TeX, DocBook) instead. But I digress...

    --

    "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  15. Re:BECAUSE THERE IS NO FREE ALTERNATIVE by Proofof.+Chaos · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I suppose that if you want to have the prettiest report, you may need stuff only found in Office 2007. But if you merely want to report your results so you can get the mark based on your understanding of the topic, and the execution of that knowledge, and then move on to your next class, OOo is more than adequate for the task. In my experience, having the prettiest report is only important to about 25% of instructors. OTOH, having the exact same opinion as your instructor, is the deciding factor with about 65% of them. My advice to students: pirate all the best software, and kiss a lot of ass. After all, high school and college are supposed to teach you what you need to make it in the real world. In other words: lie, cheat, steal.