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Schneier Talks to the Head of TSA

Bruce Schneier recently had the chance to sit down with Kip Hawley, head of the Transportation Security Administration (TSA), and discuss some of the frustrations travelers experience head-on. "In April, Kip Hawley, the head of the Transportation Security Administration (TSA), invited me to Washington for a meeting. Despite some serious trepidation, I accepted. And it was a good meeting. Most of it was off the record, but he asked me how the TSA could overcome its negative image. I told him to be more transparent, and stop ducking the hard questions. He said that he wanted to do that. He did enjoy writing a guest blog post for Aviation Daily, but having a blog himself didn't work within the bureaucracy."

8 of 342 comments (clear)

  1. Ask him... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Ask him the procedure for getting yourself off the no-fly list.

    I'd ask myself, but I'd rather stay off that list, and since no one can say how you get on, this post might put me on that list, but I wouldn't know it until I couldn't fly next week.

    P.S. Ask him if he admires Kafka and is trying to emulate his writings...

  2. Not the TSA, it's the airlines I have issues with! by garcia · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Bruce Schneier recently had the chance to sit down with Kip Hawley, head of the Transportation Security Administration (TSA), and discuss some of the frustrations travelers experience head-on.

    I have flown quite a bit this past year and visited airports across the country (for pleasure, never for business) and have never once had a run in with the TSA. My issues are solely with the airlines and their "customer service".

    Last night was a prime example. Flying from SAV to ATL and on to MSP. My flight out of SAV was delayed from 19:42 to 22:15 and then in ATL we were originally delayed out until 01:20 then moved back to 22:10 (which I would have missed the connection) and then back to 00:10 (which was actually 00:30). We arrived at MSP 45 minutes late (which isn't that bad overall).

    The flight from ATL to MSP has a TERRIBLE track record according to Flight Stats (0.9 out of 5 stars).

    Then with Northwest's pilots calling in sick and them dropping ~9% of their flights for the weekend (170 to 200 flights) is just a joke.

    The TSA hasn't exactly been friendly or courteous but at least they are doing their job. The airlines, OTOH, aren't doing anything except making a big hole and getting bailed out by the taxpayers while paying their CEO's millions.

  3. Define Bureaucracy by 4solarisinfo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Most of it was off the record... I told him to be more transparent, and stop ducking the hard questions. He said that he wanted to do that.

    Hey buddy, if you want to be more transparent, hold less of your meeting 'off the record'.

  4. Ha! by iknownuttin · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Based on the scientific findings...

    Since this 3oz liquid horse shit has been going on, Hawley has been saying it's based on "scientific findings" like a broken record. But he has yet to show these "scientific findings".

    So what would the justification be for prohibiting lip gloss, nasal spray, etc? There was none, other than for our own convenience and the sake of a simple explanation.

    There you have it folks, Hawley freely admits that he's stupid and lazy.

    Oh, I'll report if I get on the "No-fly" list for this. Because, obviously, I'm a "threat" for pointing out Government stupidity.

    --
    I prefer Flambe as apposed flamebait.
  5. Dignity by mi · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Treat passengers with dignity. That, in my opinion, is the most important part. It does not cost very much — hardly anything at all.

    For example, if you force people to remove their shoes (and I always refused to do that, when it was still optional — until a year or so ago), do keep the floor sparkling clean in the area — and make sure, TSA employees are bare-feet too as a reassurance. Thousands of people cross those spots daily — it is not only undignifying, but also unsanitary to be walking there without footware.

    For crying out loud — a Ukrainian airport provides travelers boarding a JFK-bound flight with disposable footwear. Can JFK not do the same?

    When I made myself a pair out of paper-towels, the TSA-thugs at JFK (both the drone and his supervisor) insisted, I take them off too...

    Of course, my calling them names (as I just did) only further alienates them and contributes to the problems, which Mr. Hawley is trying to solve...

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  6. Re:Negative image by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A terrorist with 5 pounds of C4 surgically implanted in his abdomen can do far more damage than I could with the liter water bottle that TSA just made me throw away.

    But there is no effective screening method for that, so we'll pretend that little problem doesn't exist.

  7. Get a cluebat/some common sense by SuperBanana · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I told him to be more transparent, and stop ducking the hard questions. He said that he wanted to do that.

    Maybe he does (bwahaha, you don't get to a federal government position that high up by being "transparent", Bruce) - but if you think the Bush administration was controlling with scientists and public health officials (see recent stuff from surgeon general), I bet his control of "security" people is even worse.

    Most of it was off the record, but he asked me how the TSA could overcome its negative image.

    First off, why didn't Bruce say, "I'll only come if everything is on the record?" As it stands, this is basically a PR puff piece for nerds.

    Second, to actually answer the question:

    • Don't make mothers drink their own breast milk. When stupid shit like this happens, INVESTIGATE, and criminally charge the officers involved (Color of Law, anyone?) Punishing for "abuse of power" should be your #1 or #2 priority.
    • Don't confiscate ANYTHING without tagging it and giving someone a claims ticket for the trip home, unless storing it does represent a danger. Or, destroy everything instead of forking it over to a well-connected-guy's pawn shop where they make millions selling everything, even items with clear identification. Conflict of interest, anyone?
    • Stop thefts at the screening line by scam artists who employ complex plans such as "wait for the sucker to put his laptop on the belt, then slow the line down with a guy with tons of metal objects on him."
    • Actually screen your employees. Arrest and jail them for falsifying a statement if it turns out they lied. Right now, they just get booted out the door, right?
    • Stop luggage theft. It's pretty embarrassing when baggage handlers walk in and out of an airport with whatever they please. I remember seeing on national TV security camera footage of a woman hauling garbage bags filled with clothing out to her car.
    • Stop harassing the shit out of private aviation pilots. Oh, btw, if you send a blackhawk after some poor guy that wandered into restricted airspace, make sure the civilian-aviation-frequency radios on the blackhawk actually work.

    I'm too disgusted to keep thinking about this. Overall? Don't do something unless/until you can do it competently.

  8. Re:Negative image by cowscows · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You're never going to be able to stop everything bad from happening. If some bad guy really wants to hurt someone, they'll find a way. I could do a lot of damage to the guy sitting next to me even if I brought nothing on the plane. I could get those headphones from the stewardess, and strangle the guy while he's sleeping. Or I could just sucker punch him in the face with my fists.

    The hope is that methods can be developed that limit the amount of damage that a person can do. Bombs on planes are pretty scary because in one instant, a person can feasibly bring down the whole plane and everyone on board dies. That same guy can stab someone in the neck with a pen, and it certainly sucks for that person, but it'd only be a matter of minutes before other passengers have subdued the attacker, and he's no longer a threat.

    The terrorists on 9/11 apparently hijacked the plane with box cutters. That only worked because the passengers figured that the hijackers were going to follow the standard hijacking script of landing the plane somewhere and making demands to release the hostages. If the passengers had in any way thought it probable that the hijackers were going to purposely crash the planes into buildings, they would've resisted. They'd have had nothing to lose, seeing as the other alternative was certain death. And five guys with box cutters aren't likely to survive too long against 150 passengers fighting for their lives. There's not likely to be another attack like 9/11 where a plane gets hijacked and flown into a building. The standard response from the passengers would be different now. It'd still suck if someone jabbed a pencil into your stomach on a plane, but that sort of thing isn't really any more likely to happen on a plane than anywhere else. The attacker wouldn't gain anything by being on an airplane, they'd just make their escape much less likely.

    --

    One time I threw a brick at a duck.