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RIAA Backtracks After Embarrassing P2P Defendant

Harmony writes "When the RIAA sued Sgt. Nicholas Paternoster, it included a screenshot of a shared folder with over 4,600 files — some of which were pornographic images unrelated to the case. Last week, the RIAA got permission from a judge to, as a 'professional courtesy,' swap out the original exhibit for one with only the 350+ songs the defendant is accused of sharing on Kazaa. The RIAA's carelessness may come back to haunt it, however: 'After the suit was filed — and the exhibit made public — Sgt. Paternoster decided to fight back, filing a counterclaim accusing the RIAA of violating his privacy and seeking to "shame Counter-Plaintiff... into giving in to their unreasonable demands regarding their copyrighted materials."'"

25 of 255 comments (clear)

  1. Sue em all by packetmon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    He should also go after Mediasentry if they were responsible for obtaining his information and dishing it off to the US Department of RIAA

    1. Re:Sue em all by Real1tyCzech · · Score: 3, Insightful

      How is a screenshot of his shared files (available to anyone on kazaa) anything *but* public information not subject to search & seizure laws?

      People can browse the shares of others all day on this service. It's public information on a public network. Nothing here required a warrant.

      The content shared was more than enough cause to allow the copyright holder to request identifying information from the ISP (this may have required a warrant, IANAL).

      Sure, if it was a kid or a dead grandma, we'd all have every right to be pissed off, but it wasn't some innocent bystander this time.

    2. Re:Sue em all by Artifakt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The plaintiff in this case is in a position where he is conceivably likely to be judged with exceptional harshness by his employer when it comes to possessing perfectly legal porn (or at least it's the common perception of his job situation). His position in the society strongly suggests that the RIAA made a deliberate choice to include the irrelevant information because it would bring extra pressure to settle.
                If the Sargent's position and the choice to include the porn info are really more than a coincidence, then the RIAA lawyers lied in court when they claimed it was merely an oversight.
                By extension, they likely had intent to damage the Sgt. with his employer, and took the opportunity (Note: If a deliberate lie occurred, then malice is clearly established, and a modus operandi has already been demonstrated and admitted to by the RIAA. Intent, opportunity, method, a grand jury would see at least half the elements of a crime here as solidly proven, others as probable, and likely find plenty of cause to indite.).
            The RIAA were also trying to use the courts to accomplish this. That's a general abuse of the legal system that can warrent disbarment, at the very least. Claiming in court that it was just a coincidental mistake would be perjury if there's any evidence the Sgt's position was discussed in this context, and some of the related remarks would likely be multiple counts of contempt of court. There's certainly enough evidence at this point for a judge to subpoena all RIAA documents relating to this case (although Attny/Client privilege will of course limit that). Worse, some possible evidence comes in the form of the RIAA's legal letters to the Sgt. - the RIAA certainly can't prevent him from using them in the civil suite. Those are available to the court, and the RIAA may be sweating over how they were worded even now.
                Alternately, RIAA had the full intent to actually threaten the Sgt. with revealing this irrelevant information unless he settled out of court for whatever amount they chose. There's not as much evidence for this, yet, but even that claim already has some supporting evidence established, and something as simple as one sentence in the wording of a letter pressuring the Sgt. to settle could be enough to make a solid case. That action's extortion. Extortion is a major felony. Using the court system to attempt to do it is an aggravating circumstance which normally calls for additional penalties.
                Proving either of these to a full legal standard would be challenging, given who's involved. It's still reasonable to suspect that at least one of these two scenarios is true. Maybe the RIAA's lawyers didn't make an actual threat, or even consider it. Maybe they are either more aware of the law or more decent minded. It's still reasonable to figure that if they went that far down the path towards a very serious crime, they likely have done enough to deserve at least the lesser charges.

      --
      Who is John Cabal?
  2. Possession a crime? by InvisblePinkUnicorn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    From the more detailed article:

    "Paternoster was unaware that the Kazaa software was installed on his computer. While on a tour of duty in Germany from 2004 to 2005, the document says, another soldier downloaded the software and set up a Kazaa account under Paternoster's name. Last summer Paternoster discovered the software and 'thousands of files downloaded on his computer by the soldiers he housed,' and he uninstalled the software and deleted the files, according to the document."

    So, is unknowing possession a crime in this case? Let the poor analogies begin...

    1. Re:Possession a crime? by conspirator57 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      or perhaps it's like this Michael Vick guy who lets his friend use his Virginia estate and lo and behold gets charged with dog fighting. http://www.suntimes.com/sports/490355,CST-SPT-swir e31.article

      I'd suspect more /.ers think Vick is likely responsible for the crime he's charged with than the Sergeant in question in the article. My guess on that would be the nearness of his activities to us geeks or our unwillingness to consider copyright violation a proper crime/civil liability. Or perhaps we just assume that everyone else is a stereotypical non-geek and is incapable of understanding the internet box they bought.

      mmm.... double standard mmm... donut.

      --
      "If still these truths be held to be
      Self evident."
      -Edna St. Vincent Millay
    2. Re:Possession a crime? by jettawu · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Their whole information gathering process is pretty shady already, but if they're routinely scanning content that they don't actually have rights to, that's much shadier. Yea, and considering that rights to content is exactly what they're arguing about...

      I don't really understand. It seems fairly obvious to me that they are using their position/power/money to get what they want, but in the process they seem to be making a mockery of the very laws that they think others are breaking.

      How do they think any of this is helping them?
    3. Re:Possession a crime? by LWATCDR · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not really a fair comparison. For a solder with roommates it is right up there with claiming if you found pot in a dorm that everybody in the dorm was in possession.
      Many people have NO idea what is on their computer. A modern PC with a large HD is a very big place in which you can loose data. I would think that the huge number of systems running zombies and open mail relays is proof enough of reasonable doubt in this case.
      The fact that the RIAA published images that they had no rights to seems to me to make them just as guilty as the anybody using a P2P program. They took copyrighted material that they had no rights to and published it for their own proposes. If ignorance of the law is no excuse for P2P users then the RIAA doesn't have a leg to stand on..

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    4. Re:Possession a crime? by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You have to understand that they're crapping their pants at the potential loss of the bulk of their revenue generation. Digital distribution is the end of the gravy train for them; no more surge of customers buying the same content every time they change the format.

      So what do they do? They try to kill it, whether it's trying to shut down web radio through massive fee increases, trying to stifle online music sales through use of restrictive DRM schemes, trying to prevent CD copying through hugely invasive software installs, or trying to stifle "free" file sharing by intimidation through massive lawsuits.

      Their goal isn't to protect their content, their goal is to protect their revenue stream, which means intimidate the bulk of the sheep to the point where they'll go out and buy the content...preferably more than once so they can listen to it on multiple devices.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    5. Re:Possession a crime? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'll play.

      On one hand, we have a guy who downloaded some songs on the Internet, which he presumably then listened to.

      On the other hand, we have a guy who ran an illegal operation on his property, called "Bad Newz Kennels" where fighting dogs were bred and then tortured and killed if they lost a fight.

      One of these things is not like the other...

      Now if Vick had been forcing RIAA lawyers to get into a pit and fight to the death, and then hang or drown the loser, we'd really have something to work with.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    6. Re:Possession a crime? by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In this case, if the computer really was commonly left unattended in a place accessible by a large number of people, it will be difficult to fix legal responsibility on the titular owner.

      Then why is it no crime when a computer participates in a DDoS as a trojan infected drone? Just because judges can't see that being physically unattended or trojan infected with a user in front of it that does neither know nor care is no difference? A lot of computers currently connected to the net are (logically, not physically) unattended and accessible by a large number of people. Where's the difference?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    7. Re:Possession a crime? by 1729 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      or perhaps it's like this Michael Vick guy who lets his friend use his Virginia estate and lo and behold gets charged with dog fighting.

      Vick's not accused of simply owning the property on which dogfights were staged. Rather, the case against him is that Vick bought property for the purpose of running "Bad Newz Kennels", financed a dogfighting operation, personally killed (by brutal means) a number of dogs, and was a principal conspirator in the operation. So it's really not like Sgt. Paternoster's case at all.
    8. Re:Possession a crime? by gnasher719 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      '' As others have pointed out, ignorance is generally not an excuse. ''

      Stop right there. Ignorance of the law is no excuse; if you commit a crime then it doesn't matter whether you knew or not that it was illegal.

      Ignorance _is_ often an excuse because it makes the difference between actually having committed a crime or not. Lets say at a car park you put your coat on the back of my car while you tie your shoelaces. I drive away in my car - with your coat on it. If I knew that your coat was there, it is theft. If I didn't know it was there, it is no theft.

      In this case, ignorance that someone used your computer to infringe someone's copyright is most definitely an excuse.

    9. Re:Possession a crime? by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Unknowing possession" is the argument put forth by every sneak thief and druggie who ever got caught with something illegal on their person. The courts are used to trying cases where that is used as an argument. In this case, if the computer really was commonly left unattended in a place accessible by a large number of people, it will be difficult to fix legal responsibility on the titular owner.

      Especially if he was provably out of the country.

      It's one thing to claim you have no idea how you got cocaine in your pocket or a stolen radio in your back seat -- that's pretty thin, and arguably you probably know what's in your pocket. It's another thing entirely to say "I wasn't in the same country as this PC when this took place, so how the hell do I know who did it?".

      Their whole information gathering process is pretty shady already, but if they're routinely scanning content that they don't actually have rights to, that's much shadier.

      I completely agree, but they're going to argue that they need to look at all of your data so that they can find the bits which might be infringing. Because, obviously, the data you don't want them to see must be the infringing pieces.

      Cheers
      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  3. Corporate Security Police by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I hope Paternoster's lawyers force the judge and the RIAA to go on record as violating evidence rules, and show damages for those porno files that are not evidence of any crime.

    The RIAA, and any other complainant (like you or me, if we file a complaint) has to identify the "stolen" property in specific detail, and the police must seize only that property under a specific court order.

    The police state tyranny of extorting suspects by confiscating all their property they need to live and work was already in violation of our rights protected by the Fourth Amendment. Corporations using the police as a mercenary army is fascism: government by, for, but not of, corporations. Using coercion and intimidation as the fear to enforce corporate government "discipline".

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  4. Expose by Renraku · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Hopefully he'll get a nice fat settlement. I mean the RIAA was expecting it out of him just for downloading some songs..what if he had exposed some of their embarassing info? They'd be wanting his head on a stick.

    --
    Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
  5. Wait...wait... by kitsunewarlock · · Score: 4, Insightful

    He was in GERMANY when this happened? I know he's a US citizen, downloading RIAA "protected" songs, and probably in US territory (i.e. bases) when this happened but...come on. The fact he was in Germany should mean SOMETHING to the case.

    --
    Ginga no Rekshiya Mata Each page.
  6. Screenshot as evidence by huge · · Score: 5, Insightful

    RIAA just proved how easy it is to manipulate the screenshots. It doesn't matter if they blurred or cropped the image, it should now be crystal clear even to most tech illiterate judge how easy it is to tamper the screenshots they are proposing to use as evidence.

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    -- Reality checks don't bounce.
  7. Re:Better article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We try to be fair and reasonable in resolving these cases," said RIAA spokeswoman Cara Duckworth. "Our aim is not to be in court, but to seek appropriate retribution for the damage done to the industry

    Another interresting choice of words : not the artist, but "the industry" ... A slip-of-the-tongue perhaps ?

    Funny : the captcha is "embezzle"
  8. Actually, I believe her by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The RIAA doesn't want to be in court. In court, their claims could be debunked, while in a settlement, where you pretty much plead guilty, they don't have to prove nothing. Even innocent people would rather go and settle for 2k bucks if they can't afford a 10k lawsuit battle.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  9. Re:Professional Courtesy by jma05 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Huh! Not a good analogy. Your analogy implies that they presented completely wrong evidence. They did not. But they did include along with the valid evidence, other stuff that may damage the defendant. And RIAA may further argue that the folder was presumably willingly made public by the user (who they they at that time did not know was different from the defendant) and therefore could not assume that the constituted private information.

  10. Re:Better article by Shagg · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Our aim is not to be in court We don't care about innocence or guilt.

    but to seek appropriate retribution for the damage done to the industry. We just want your money.
    --
    Unix is user friendly, it's just selective about who its friends are.
  11. Re:Better article by macdaddy357 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The RIAA is like the mob, in that they are a criminal syndicate. Unlike the mob however, they are bad at what they do and are losing money.

    --
    How ya like dat?
  12. Re:Really Bad Analogy by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I still say it's bad.

    Even if, for the sake of argument, we ignore the fact that there will be several witnesses testifying against Vick, I still say it's a bad analogy.

    On the one hand, we have a Sergeant, and some people who lived with him asked to use his computer. This is a routine request, and he had no reason to think that his computer would be used to commit massive copyright infringement.

    On the other hand, we have Vick, whose cousin asked for a large sum of money. I realize that Michael Vick has a lot of money, but he also probably gets thousands of such requests, so he's got to learn to say no.

    To illustrate my point, take a stab at estimating Vick's net worth, and estimate how much that property must have cost and how much it cost to finance the dogfighting league. Next, scale it down (or up, I suppose) to your own net worth to see how meaningful of a request that would be for you. Now if a distant, hoodlum cousin asked you for that much money, would you at least want to know "why?"

    My guess is you'd ask an awful lot of questions, and I'm sure Vick did, as well. Or at the very least, asked more questions than the Sergeant asked when someone wanted to use his PC.

    --
    They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
  13. Re:Sgt. WHAT? by XnavxeMiyyep · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It says that you go online for porn.

    --
    I put the 't' in electrical engineering.
  14. Re:Sgt. WHAT? by acariquara · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Then you have it on your browser's cache.

    --
    Dear aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all