Slashdot Mirror
Smarter Teens Have Less Sex
Tech.Luver writes "Gene Expression reports,
"Tyler Cowen quotes from a new study testing the relationship between grades and delayed sexual activity.
Last December I passed a paper along to Razib showing that high-school age adolescents with higher IQs and extremely low IQs were less likely to have had first intercourse than those with average to below average intelligence. (i.e. for males with IQs under 70, 63.3% were still virgins, for those with IQs between 70-90 only 50.2% were virgin, 58.6% were virgins with IQs between 90-110, and 70.3% with IQs over 110 were virgins)
In fact, a more detailed study from 2000 is devoted strictly to this topic, and finds the same thing: Smart Teens Don't Have Sex (or Kiss Much Either). ""
Idiocracy, here we come!
What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
Uh huh. And later in life, they're called "Yes sir, right away, sir!"
"You will pay for your lack of vision..." - Emperor Palpatine to Ray Charles
No I wouldn't say that. Slashdot is filled with some smart people and a lot of people who want to be smart... Just because you can use Linux doesn't mean you are smart, just becasue you can't doesn't mean you are stupid. I know some people who use Slashdot and run linux with actual below average IQ's. I would say while the average IQ on shashdot is above average is just because it is a convient source of news (or at least use to be it has been getting dumbed down over the years) of Science/Technical Information so experts in such fields use it to get some information... But just because you are a geek or a nerd it doesn't mean you are smart, just a social outcast.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Now I am conflicted. Half of my inner geek wants to laugh and take the joke, and the other wants to rail on you for creating causation from correlation. But either way, I'm posting on /.
Simpler then that...
Teenagers with low IQ normally are not left alone to do what they will. Because parents don't trust them to do the smart thing because they arn't, combined with the fact they get usually get extra adult help means less exposure with other kids, and the oposit sex feels guilty about sexual activity with that group, so combined that will make a lower rate.
High IQ teens stop and think and realize that risks of Sex as a teenager (STD, Pregnacny) will get in away with their life plans being with higher IQ society expects more from them with their life plans so they stay away from such risks. Basicly I am not going to let a Baby get in my way to become a doctor. After I get my degree and a steady job then I may focus on having a family, Logical reasoning by people with higher IQ.
Teens in the middle are not pressured to become a Doctor or whatever so they have less ambitions for life and figure it may be worth the risk. Combined with the fact they may not think things fully out and let biological pressures take over what people say they should do.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
There is plenty of time for sex and sex when you think you know so much when you actually know very little is much more likely to lead to complications.
But there's only so much time for sex with teenagers. Get it while you can guys.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
I'm in my mid-twenties, and I didn't have sex until the very end of high school, and didn't date at all, and I seriously don't feel like I missed out on a damn thing. Sex when I was 18 was awkward and boring, I can't imagine the kind of horrible flopping around I would have had if I had been 14 or 15.
I know we live in an ephebophilic society where your teenage years are supposed to be when the best years of anyone's life, but let's all be honest here: Being a teenager sucks. You can't drive, you can't drink without having to sneak around, you're kind of an idiot, you don't know what the hell you're doing when it comes to members of the opposite sex, and that's not even starting to mention acne, braces and a bad fashion sense. I much prefer my twenties, and I'm looking forward to my thirties. I'm having a great time compared to ten years ago.
So maybe being smart and not having sex in high school isn't that groundbreaking of a correlation. Why is it so important to have any sex when you're in high school anyways? Shouldn't it be more important to have good sex when you're older? Where's the study on sex lives of single smart twenty- and thirty-somethings? I'd be interested in that study.
P.S. Watch the "abstinence only" crowd use this as ammunition: "See! Smart teenagers choose abstinence!"
i was one of those high-IQ virgins and let me state, from first hand experience, the following: HA HA HA HA HA!
yeah, right, i didn't WANT any girls to pay attention to me! that's it!
you've got to be kidding me.
i could live a little longer in this prison
Slashdot readers have such high IQs that they realize that sex leads to babies, contraceptives don't work 100%, having intimate contact with some random person is a good way to get disease, and that one should save themselves for a life-partner so that they're ready for the responsibilities that come with sex while simultaneously avoiding the issue of STDs. So they don't have sex as teens.
HAHAHAHA! Isn't that funny?
Anyone?
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Actually no. In reality you get to management by who you know and social skills.
What you know and your IQ actually tend to hurt your chances.
I hate to burst the geek bubble but it's truth.
want proof? WOZ is a rich geek but never was upper management.
Gates was never a geek, he was a poser and the face man. (sorry gate's early code is horrible and first year quality) he had business sense and knew people as well as has social skills in a bizzare way.
Jobs = Face man he is the guy that makes you like him so much you will sell him your stuff at cost or buy his product by standing in a line outside for hours when there is no supply problems.
If you are a geek and high IQ I STRONGLY suggest taking etiquette classes, social interaction classes and do everything in your power to have the knowledge to fake being good at party socializing. You have to be the guy that everyone loves in the first 15 minutes of meeting them. Speak eloquently, be good at faking that you really are interested in how well her pedicure went and how that CEO of that company had a horrifying day because he had to way 30 minutes for road service to show up and fix his flat tire.
Crack the code of socalizing, get that one done and you will become upper management.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
There are a few of reasons I think this might be true:
1. Smarter teens believe that sex can be risky. Namely: Unwanted pregnancy, disease, emotional distress and not to mention social pressures from parents.
2. Smarter teens may have higher standards as they are able to distinguish better between "good mate" and "not so good mate."
2a. Finding a good mate may mean finding an intellectual equal.
3. A deep fulfilling intellectual and emotional relationship may be more important than and a prerequisite to simple sexual pleasure.
i see our high IQs also allow us to invent quite plausible excuses for why we can't get laid!
i could live a little longer in this prison
It's our choice of course. However, you may regret those missed opportunities twenty years from now. "Saving yourself" for some conjectured Ms./Mr. Right is quite a gamble - you won't get that time back if the person doesn't materialize, or doesn't turn out to be the perfect mate you'd envisioned.
At your age, you should be taking in as many new experiences as you can. There won't be many other times in your life where you are as unencumbered by obligations and responsibilities.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Think of it this way, if everyone was as smart as you and me, we would just be of average intelligence.
As an example case, I was a virgin until I was 26. Yes, if I'm honest it's true that I had utterly no clue how to understand or communicate with the opposite sex, but I'll also admit that sex quite simply isn't something that I've ever consistently had a strong interest in.
Although this is nothing whatsoever against the person who this happened with, even after losing my virginity, I can remember thinking of that experience, while reasonably enjoyable and positive, as not seeming to deserve anything like the degree of hype that most people associate with the act. Most of the people I've known seem to regard sex as being the pinnacle of human experience, and that is an attitude which I find deeply sad.
I know that a predictable response to this will probably be to speculate that I am in fact homosexual, but I do not believe that to be the case, and to be honest, that is something else about the customary attitude towards sex that I find deeply pathetic. Namely the idea that if a person doesn't have one preference, then they *must* by definition have another, because not being helplessly addicted to sex in either straight or gay form is supposedly completely impossible...in most people's minds, it just doesn't compute.
Some of us honestly view reproduction as being the domain of animals. Given that we have more than enough other human beings who are quite happy to devote their own lives to that activity, this means that those of us who have that attitude are also able to persue the expansion and enhancement of our minds, without fear as to the possible consequences to the human population.
If you're someone for whom sex is the most important element of your existence, I'd strongly advocate getting a life.
This is one of the most insightful posts I have seen on Slashdot. This is the stuff they DON'T teach you in university but they should. Moving into upper management isn't about WHAT you know, it's about WHO you know. You can call it bullshitting, ass kissing, whatever ... but the perception people have of you determines where your glass ceiling lies. Yes, keep your skills up to date, but also keep your address book up to date and send a keepalive on your entire social network every quarter. Crap ... now I can't use my mod points here.
Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws-Plato
HAHAHAHA! Isn't that funny? "
Hehehe...you had me going there for awhile.
Really...it sounds bad, but, I'd almost recommend for teens to have as much sex as possible at that age, just use protection!!!
That is the only time in your life where you'll be able to (in some cases legally) to screw teen girls while everything is tight and where it is supposed to be. Gravity takes a toll on the old human body as you get older. And with people getting obese at earlier and earlier ages....get some fun in while you and potential partners are in good shape.
Especially true for guys. As a teen, you are in your prime and best years for sex...stamina, endurance. Do it now and do it as often with as much variety as you can. In a few short years, you will start going downhill....and your selection of partners will be older and more worn looking too. Enjoy it while it is good, and build those memories.
Sounds really against the grain of normal recommendations, but, as I get older, I realize it is that way. I'm glad I got as much as I did growing up...wish I'd had even more...
So, I say GO for it....you're only young ONCE!!
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
So use a condom smart guy. One day you'll realize sex is no big deal and you wasted a lot of time being freaked out about it instead of doing it. I don't think you should go fuck a random girl, but expecting sex to be some magical experience with your soul mate is really setting yourself up for disappointment.
One day you're going to meet someone you love and respect and want to stay with forever. You want to "sow your wild oats" before that, or you'll spend the rest of your life wondering what sex with other women would be like. It's a lot easer to know you've made the right choice when you've tried a few of the other options.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
If by "first woman" you mean, the first woman to captivate me with her beauty, grace, and intelligence, then I suppose you could say that. Certainly, I was never attracted to the types of airheads that less honorable boys find so easy to "get in the sack". When a girl took several weeks before she finally got the punchline to "there are three types of people in the world", I did not find it charming or cute. I found it horrifying, and would rather have stayed a virgin for the rest of my life than try to build a relationship with someone like that.
If all you want in a mate is someone to have sex with, then that is your choice. I believe that God gave me a brain to think with and make intelligent decisions, not allow my loins to drive me. One of those decisions was staying true to who I am when finding a woman to spend my life with. And wouldn't you know it, the woman I chose was also the type to want more than just a physical relationship. She could have had any man she wanted, but she didn't. She chose me instead.
A relationship like that makes one remember how unique that other person is. And how important it is to make the time, put in the effort, and give the attention necessary to keep that relationship thriving over the years.
It's easy for me to give a flippant answer to a flippant statement, but I'd rather say something that will actually *help* people. And if there is one thing I can say, it's this: Relationships are about commitment. The best method of telling if someone is for you or not is not their looks or any "compatibility" tests. It's asking yourself if you're willing to devote the rest of your life to them and them to you. THAT is the true test of a relationship.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
My observation has been that those who are more hard-working or studious tend to have less time for relationships, physical included, and the other things that come along with them (children, etc). Perhaps it's not so much that they're smart as that they're busy?
I don't think you intended to say she chose someone she didn't want :)
In any case, I agree with you. All it takes is 1 or 2 really bad relationships to show you that the best alternative to a good relationship is to be alone. I'm not saying you should hold out for a perfect person (there is no such thing) but focus instead on the qualities of character. Personality, intelligence, humor, etc. is much more important than looks, because honestly... after 40+ years of marriage, s/he isn't going to look all that hot anyway. If you marry someone who is hot but stupid and shallow... after a few decades they'll by ugly, stupid and shallow. Trust me on this.
psmylie's dictionary: Godzillion (noun) Any number large enough to destroy Tokyo
I'd actually like to say a bit about that. Much has been made of the fact that there are those guys in every city, in every walk of life, who want to have sex with teenagers. Usually this is spun as "omg predators everywhere!", but that's hardly a rational analysis. Do you know why there are so many of those people? Because it's entirely natural and normal for a sexually mature male to want to have sex with a pubescent female. And there's nothing wrong with that.
Now I'm not saying they don't catch any deviants. Obviously they do. There's a lot of social conditioning against our natural desires, and it takes someone somewhat deviant to ignore that. I'm just saying that these guys are not sick freaks because they want to have sex with teenagers. Most of them are just lonely people with natural desires who think they've found a willing partner and made the wrong decision. The way they are treated by Dateline, the legal system, and the general public is more disgusting than anything they'd do with a willing partner.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Nothing like avoiding the good things in life because you're afraid of the minuscule possibility that something might happen.
I only go to buffets for the unlimited soft serve.
Leave it to a grammar Nazi to find the silver lining.
If you are about to mod me down, keep in mind that this post was most likely sarcastic.
First, I'm not going to call you a homosexual (not that there's anything wrong with that!).
I'll just point out that from a scientific perspective, we are animals, and from a genetic point of view, reproduction is the pinnacle of our existence. From an evolutionary standpoint, there's not much purpose to our lives if we don't pass on our genes. I know that not every smart person is scientifically inclined, but I think it's safe to say that scientific understanding takes intelligence. It is not unintelligent to recognize the importance of sex in human lives.
From a non-scientific standpoint, I think there is an important debate, common to us all, about what provides the greatest satisfaction and enjoyment (and meaning) in life. Is it achievement, or is it connection? I think it's safe to say that you'll find many smart, successful people who nevertheless believe that their love and family is the most satisfying and important part of their lives. The idea that sex/achievement is a binary choice is false. Einstein and Hemingway and Picasso (and etc) all had lovers.
From a strictly physical standpoint, sex can create feelings that are unachievable any other way. But the same is true from an emotional standpoint as well--there's no closer emotional connection that can be made to another person. Physical intimacy is the distinguishing characteristic of love, of partner from friend. I don't find anything sad about that.
Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
While I think your whole "commitment" spiel is admirable I will say that sexual compatibility is a very important part of any committed relationship. You can totally click on every level but if the sexual spark isn't there your relationship will either be miserable or it won't last. That is why I think a lot of people end up in miserable relationships because of the whole "I'm saving myself" BS.
So yeah you shouldn't jump into bed with every random skank you run across but you should definitely take a roll in the hay with any intelligent, beguiling woman who intrigues you. Because if it isn't good there, nothing else will matter. Trust me, I know. Learn from my mistakes!
The 2% figure is not 2% per use. The figure is: 2% of women who used condoms as their only form of birth control are pregnant after 1 year. Assuming they had sex more than once a year, the figure per use is going to be much less. And it's a good bet that a lot of those women aren't using the condoms correctly. You know, using 2 condoms, or having sex, pulling out, putting on a condom and finishing, that sort of thing.
And abortions are 100% effective.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Actually I think you're on to something that the FA glosses over (or doesn't have strong enough statistical support to claim, perhaps). Do the most normal people have the most sex, by benefit of having the widest selection of potential partners that are similar to them? I remember the dating pool of people with IQs over ~110; it was ... slim and awkward pickings. If amount of sex correlates with number of potential partners, and potential partners similarly is connected to people "about the same as you" on various scales, of which IQ is easily measurable, then those in the middle of a bell curve on IQ have a wider community of potential partners and are more likely to have more sex.
That's a lot of connections, so I'm not surprised that it's not brought out. Nevertheless, IQ as a measure may just be a proxy for an underlying mechanism.
Returned Peace Corps IT Volunteer
Not really. They were more popular than they are today, but athletes, pretty boys, soldiers, and politicians had their good share of attention too. Scientists who made something fascinated were well-liked, but your average smart guy who hadn't yet had a break was just as "boring" as any geek today.
Let's not forget that women of intellect weren't well valued either. Famous women scientists were considered a fascinating aberration but not the kind of girl you'd want to marry -- after all men were expected to be the heads of the family, and you wouldn't want too "headstrong" and "independent" of a woman.
There is nothing new under the sun.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
There are plenty of ugly people of the opposite sex. Being ugly does not stop you from finding a partner. Insecurity about your own hideous appearance is really the only obstacle.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
If only laws prevented that! Surely eugenics is the answer, or perhaps some other form of law to keep the higher-quality people from those lower-quality ones.
They're going to spend the rest of their miserable, worthless lives on welfare, no doubt failing to raise their bastard kids properly.
Who are you to say that their lives will be miserable and worthless? To those living them, perhaps their lives are rich and provide emotional sustenance, or seem worthy and interesting. It is dangerous to try and judge someone from the outside, and if you hold the rest of humanity in such low regard, perhaps you should think about what is happening in your own life that you castigate others as you do.
Robertson Davies sometimes writes about such people who are left behind by time or technology or society, and writes about them with great sympathy. In The Cunning Man a doctor treats patients with more than just science, and in Conversation with Robertson Davies this exchange occurs:
I will lament that my penis has by then received so little use.
Most women, I suspect, would choose a carefree bad boy over an angry, uptight Republican with a chip on his shoulder; Dan Savage makes a similar point in some of his columns. If you think ignorant fools can get laid so easily but someone as perspicacious as you wants to and can't, who is smart?
I had a very similar outlook to women when I was your age. I took it one step further though, I absolutely *knew* I was smarter than everyone else, arrogant little prick that I was, and I spoke up at every opportunity just to let people know about it. Nicknamed the 'professor', it took me a lot of years to realise it was actually a very appropriate insult for who I was. I regret being that way, no actual friends, terrible loneliness, and a very real fear of the opposite sex. Idiot I was. Then one day I got to thinking - outside watching a thunderstorm - it's spectacular in its own way, even beautiful in fact, so why the need to tell anyone within earshot about step leaders and all the other crud that goes with it, why not just enjoy it for what it is, in silence. So I started listening rather than talking.
I wont bore you with the details, but life is good. I do wish I had led a more *normal* childhood, one where I got dumped by the odd girlfriend or 60, and maybe even sometimes the other way around. I would have grown up with a far better outlook on the world. The difference now, the more I learn, the more I know I don't know anything.
Love and sex are not at all the same thing, sex might well be primal, but you know, naked tribal chicks, what's not to like about them! It's sex, no analysis necessary beyond the 'animalistic' lusty goodness that it is. (theoretically speaking *ahem* - other half passing by computer)
I lost my virginity to my wife two years before we got married. I wasn't disappointed in the least. And I've never once regretted the fact that the only sexual experiences I've had have been meaningful and fulfilling.
Once you've made love with someone you truly love for a few years, the act itself becomes increasingly less important, in my experience. It's not about the sex, it's about sharing the experience with someone who I'm very close to. Sure, at a very base, primal level, I'm curious about sex with other women. But then I realize that sex without the love that my wife and I share could never be as fulfilling, period.
I understand that not every guy is like that. Some guys will spend their whole lives sowing their wild oats. Different strokes for different folks. I won't judge those people for living their lives the way they see fit. I just ask that you return the favor.
Sex is pretty complicated. Not really the act itself - though there is a fair amount of understanding what goes where when to have the act be as satisfying as it can be. I mean more the relationship surrounding sex. Sex is, after all, one of the most intimate acts you can undertake - it can cut to the core of your personality if you let it, or you can guard that core at the expense of the experience.
My point is this; I know plenty of people who wanted certain things out of their sex life but who never achieved it, because they were either afraid of rejection and so did not admit to it, or they were already committed and did not wish to rock the boat. Sleeping with people for whom you feel comfortable having an intimate relationship is not an act that you should necessarily 'reserve' for only the very most worthy situation. Sometimes it's better to learn how to be close to people, and to learn how that extreme closeness affects you, affects them, affects your relationship with them, and with others. These learning experiences are generally categorized as reckless, but I think that usually - 95% of the time - they're far from it. They're natural, and humans learn from it.
Why is it, then, that there is such a prevalence of the mindset that if you never do something, the first person you do it with will be the perfect person? That it somehow increases your chances of finding a working relationship? If anything, the people I know whom have had a great deal of sex are more in tune with how it affects their relationship. I'm not advocating being enslaved to your loins - but there are multiple ways for that enslavement to incur. Letting them run rampant is one; never learning mastery over them is another.
[Ego]out
the whole "I'm saving myself" BS.
The problem is this is not BS. Even if you take a "roll in the hay" with that special someone of the moment... who's to say she hasn't taken a roll in the hay with someone previously of whom was her previous special someone of the moment. And since that previous special someone turned out not to be so special... who's to say that person was not so careful about placing his, umm, unit anywhere else.
It's not so hard to wait. I did until I was 29 and married, my wife also waited and she is older than I. Neither of us have to worry about the other.
wtf does C, G, Xl, Xr, X, A stand for.
the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
The real obstacle is poor social skills.
There is also an unfortunate misconception: nerds and geeks aren't just smart people. They're smart people with social deficits and, often, low cultural capital. There are smart people who are also popular, charismatic, and confident.
Life's not fair.