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German Prosecutors Won't Help RIAA Counterpart

NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "A German court decision ruled that the European counterpart to the RIAA cannot invoke criminal proceedings over petty file sharing incidents. The goal was to to find out from ISPs the identity of alleged file-sharing subscribers; the requests have been refused as the judge saw the the proceedings as not in the 'public interest', and little or no economic damage was shown to have been caused to the record companies. Offering a few copyright-protected music tracks via a P2P network client was 'a petty offense,' the court declared. Within days, German prosecutors have now indicated that they will no longer permit the use of 'criminal proceedings' to procure subscriber information."

48 of 199 comments (clear)

  1. If only... by InvisblePinkUnicorn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Now if only American court rooms cared at all about the "public interest", rather than the special interests that have so much power, maybe we'd start seeing similar sound-mindedness.

    1. Re:If only... by monkeyboythom · · Score: 3, Funny

      "golf clap for our .DE brethren"

      Does this mean there will be a pirate ship anchoring off the coast of Germany any time soon?

    2. Re:If only... by cepayne · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In North America, suing individuals has become an actual business
      model and accepted practice. As much as the kids that believe it
      it is acceptable to download music tracks without paying for them.

      Touche'.... I think we are at loggerheads.

    3. Re:If only... by thefirelane · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It sounds nice when something happens you like, but in reality the courts are simply there to interpret the law as written... not just do whatever they feel is best. We have lawmakers who are supposed to work 'in the public interest'. Admittedly, they are not... but fixing that should be the priority, not making some new legislative/executive branch combo out of the court system.

    4. Re:If only... by im+just+cannonfodder · · Score: 3, Insightful

      the problem is that American courts are there to support the companies, while in europe human rights are actually taken into consideration, something that America fails to even attempt to put in front of making a dollar. the American dream lives on, universal health care is funded by communists,, i mean by terrorists.

    5. Re:If only... by AK+Marc · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It sounds nice when something happens you like, but in reality the courts are simply there to interpret the law as written... not just do whatever they feel is best.

      That's not the way it is supposed to work. The legislators are supposed to work in the best interests of the people. If they fail (see 1 year jail time for recording a short clip of a movie for the purposes of a review), the executive is supposed to also exercise judgement to protect the interests of the people. If the executive fails to protect the interests of the people, then the courts are supposed to protect the interests of the people. That's the way the government was supposed to work, and why we have three branches protecting us. However, now it is seen that none of them are out to protect us. The legislative branches are filled with bought-out politicians, and the other branches shouldn't use good judgement. So, who is left to protect your rights?

  2. I sure wish... by Jaysyn · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ... our courts had this much sense.

    --
    There is a war going on for your mind.
    1. Re:I sure wish... by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I sure wish... our courts had this much sense. Well, Jaysyn, maybe they're getting there.
      --
      Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
  3. Where these cases belong... by Stanistani · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The RIAA should be forced to take these cases to Small Claims Court, where they would have little to no subpoena power, be limited in the amount of award, and have to explain to crusty, overworked judges why they're wasting their time.

    1. Re:Where these cases belong... by Cadallin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Precisely. Can you imagine the disgust in a judges voice the first time he hears one of these, "You mean you're suing over the equivalent of sharing a song taped from radio?" Dismissal. With Prejudice.

    2. Re:Where these cases belong... by ScrewMaster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Okay, you try explaining that to a small-claims court judge in the thirty seconds or so you get to state your case.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  4. sounds like they learned a lesson by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    I guess after the whole Hitler debacle, the German people have learned how dangerous a fascist governemnt can be.

    Kudos!

    1. Re:sounds like they learned a lesson by Ngarrang · · Score: 2, Funny

      I guess after the whole Hitler debacle, the German people have learned how dangerous a fascist governemnt can be.

      Kudos! I'm not certain, but I think you are just Godwin'd this news post...
      --
      Bearded Dragon
  5. This is great by hkgroove · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm glad the German government / courts have some common sense unlike their American counter-parts. First Scientology now this!

    1. Re:This is great by turing_m · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Both scientology and the MAFIAA are businesses without scruples. But apparently Germany allows Amway and other MLM schemes in there, go figure.

      --
      If I have seen further it is by stealing the Intellectual Property of giants.
    2. Re:This is great by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 3, Informative

      Um, the RIAA hasn't been using criminal courts in the US to go after file sharers. So the situation isn't at all analagous. Actually I think it is analogous in one sense.

      The RIAA's opening gambit is to get the name and address of the person who paid for an internet access account, and then to sue that person.

      In the US it brings fake copyright infringement lawsuits against "John Does", with no intention of prosecuting those cases, but with the sole aim of getting the name and address information. They bring the action hundreds or thousands of miles from where the John Doe lives and could actually fight back, in a court where they could never get jurisdiction over that John Doe, and they bring on the discovery motion ex parte so that the defendant never finds out about until it's too late. (Process described in my article How the RIAA Litigation Process Works). They don't tell the judge it's a fake case. They just pretend it's a regular copyright infringement case, and that this is just some early discovery in the case. Then after the order is signed authorizing them to subpoena the ISP, they drop the sham case.

      In Germany they've been using -- up until now -- sham criminal proceedings to accomplish the same result, because in Germany they couldn't have gotten the identity information in a civil case. The German judges and prosecutors have finally realized how they were being used, and have put a stop to it.

      It appears that some of the United States judges are starting to catch on as well.
      --
      Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
    3. Re:This is great by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I see your point, but I guess one problem is that the RIAA can argue (reasonably if mendaciously) that they can't bring the John Doe cases in an appropriate venue because they don't know where they are. Actually... no they could not make that argument.

      Once one has an IP address, one can identify the state and the region of the state in which the user of the IP address is located. There are websites that are freely available to the public that provide this information. So the RIAA could easily bring the suit in the right location.

      But that's not the way the RIAA lawyers work. They do things in the sneakiest and most unfair method that they can get away with.

      Judge Garcia, in the New Mexico case, realized this about them right away, when he said in so many words "whoa...cowboy...why on earth is this being done ex parte when it would be pretty easy to give the defendants prior notice, and the federal rules require you to give them prior notice?"
      --
      Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
  6. Think of the children! by schwit1 · · Score: 2, Funny

    How long before the RIAA's bought politicians in the US start threatening the German government for supporting terrorism?

  7. Deutschland Uber Alles! by tjstork · · Score: 5, Funny

    Hooray for Germany! Is it still bad to say this?

    --
    This is my sig.
    1. Re:Deutschland Uber Alles! by orzetto · · Score: 4, Informative

      "Hooray for Germany" is ok, "Deutschland über alles" not so much.

      ...and why not exactly? It is part of their national anthem and has no Nazi-party origins or connections. Contrary to what WW1 British propaganda said about the Hun, "Deutschland über alles" is not a claim of racial or national superiority, since "alles" means "everything", not "everybody". It was originally meant as "uniting the country is more important than petty state interest" when the country was united in the second half of the 19th century; it is basically a federalist motto.

      Then again, it's in German, and everything in German looks scary... including Geschwindigkeitbegrenzung and Streichholzschächtelchen.

      --
      Victims of 9/11: <3000. Traffic in the US: >30,000/y
    2. Re:Deutschland Uber Alles! by dunkelfalke · · Score: 3, Informative

      not really. this comes from the first stanza, but only the third stanza is the actual german national anthem.

      --
      Conservatism: The fear that somewhere, somehow, someone you think is your inferior is being treated as your equal.
    3. Re:Deutschland Uber Alles! by whopub · · Score: 5, Funny

      Hooray for Germany! Is it still bad to say this? Sorry, you still can't say that. Atrocities like the fact that David Hasselhoff's records sold well in Germany are still fresh in our collective memory!
    4. Re:Deutschland Uber Alles! by Knuckles · · Score: 3, Informative

      Albeit its older ager (it had been composed by Haydn for the Austrian Emperor, the words as used in the 20th century had been written in 1841, and it had been the anthem of the Weimar republic since 1922) the first stanza of the Deutschlandlied indeed was part of the Nazi anthem, and the "Deutschland über alles" was sung with particular fervency.

      As you said, the words do mean "Germany above everything", but I fail to see how you can find that alright. Your country above your family? Your love? Your honor? It's an evil concept when taken out of its original context (1848 revolutions, when nationalism was liberal and meant freedom from the German monarchs, and progress) and applied to a modern industrial nation, as the Nazis did (when nationalism became utter hell).

      You are wrong in your believe that the words are part of Germany's current national anthem. Due to its mentioned older age, post-war Germany decided to keep the anthem, but not to sing the defiled first stanza. Instead, only the third stanza is sung, "unity and justice and freedom". Freudian slips are frowned upon and for a politician would mean nearly immediate resignation.

      --
      "When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
    5. Re:Deutschland Uber Alles! by dunkelfalke · · Score: 2, Insightful

      nope. according to the decision of the german federal constitutional court only the third stanza is considered as the anthem of federal republic of germany.

      --
      Conservatism: The fear that somewhere, somehow, someone you think is your inferior is being treated as your equal.
    6. Re:Deutschland Uber Alles! by AK+Marc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As you said, the words do mean "Germany above everything", but I fail to see how you can find that alright.

      Sure, and the Pledge of Allegiance in the US is satanic because you are worshiping an idol (the flag). And yes, I've heard more than one person claim this.

      Your country above your family? Your love? Your honor? It's an evil concept when taken out of its original context (1848 revolutions, when nationalism was liberal and meant freedom from the German monarchs, and progress) and applied to a modern industrial nation, as the Nazis did (when nationalism became utter hell).


      I've heard that the military in the US espouses "God, country, family" in that order. Again, that puts the country above the family, love, honor and all that. Is that evil too?

  8. American news release... by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Funny

    Bombing of Berlin will start in 24 hours. Dick Cheny and President Bush decided that the German government is not in the best interests of the USA and must be stopped.

    "we are bringing freedom to all of the euopean continent" Dick cheny said after he bit the head off a chicken and sucked the blood out.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    1. Re:American news release... by spungo · · Score: 4, Funny

      Mod parent up!! Is it me, or does your average /. moderator have absolutely no discernable sense of humour? WTF is wrong with these people?? You know -- it's humourless bozos like these that give us geeks a bad name.

    2. Re:American news release... by Artifakt · · Score: 2, Funny

      Sometimes I think we need a "+!, prior mod has Asperger's Syndrome" mod.

      --
      Who is John Cabal?
  9. Threatening Germany by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 4, Informative
    Will they now threaten Germany, as they've threatened Russia (no WTO until AllOfMP3 is destroyed), and Sweden (raid The Pirate Bay, or else we won't like you)?

    What this decision says that's really important is that file sharing isn't the big deal the RIAA affiliated companies -- and Elton John -- make it out to be. And the losses due to a few files shared isn't HUGE AMOUNTS OF DOLLARS, like the RIAA sues for. And that there are other crimes that are far more damaging to society than guaranteeing a profit forever (Sonny Bono Copyright Extension into Eternity Act) for an old industry in a new age. And that the public prosecutors don't work for free for the record industry any longer.

    Nice to hear someone say all that.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
    1. Re:Threatening Germany by DELNI-AA · · Score: 3, Informative

      >, and Sweden Yes, even more since Swedish courts recently came to the same conclusion as their German counterparts. Freedom means Europe, these days. God knows what RIAA and the Bush administration will do to us!

    2. Re:Threatening Germany by lilomar · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sigh, for the last time, Sir Elton John didn't say anything about file shareing. Now go RTFA.

      --
      The creator of this post (Jacob Smith) hereby releases it, and all of his other posts, into the public domain.
    3. Re:Threatening Germany by lelitsch · · Score: 4, Informative

      I hope that they try, because German governments tend to not react well to intimidation. But similarly to the US policy of not invading countries that (a) don't have oil and (b) could up a fight, I doubt that the US government is eager to hassle the World's third largest economy.

      On the other hand, this is a decision at the lowest tier of Germany's court system. Unless the RIAA equivalent appeals twice (first to the Landgericht, then to an Oberlandesgericht) and gets smacked down, this doesn't really have any legal binding for other German courts.

      The Heise article makes the interesting point that the prosecutors' offices in see these cases as a waste of time, so they'll probably be even more reluctant to bring charges.

    4. Re:Threatening Germany by pimpimpim · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm not sure, they gave in to the biometric passports, and we have Schäuble now here, who will do anything to stop "terrorists" and give him a reason to spy on the german people. It's a delicate balance in Germany now. Glad to see it went to the right side this time.

      --
      molmod.com - computing tips from a molecular modeling
    5. Re:Threatening Germany by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 2, Informative
      Sir Elton John didn't say anything about file shareing. Now go RTFA.

      Sir Elton said we should shut down the entire Internet for five years, because it was destroying music as he knows it. That includes every independent selling or sharing their music over the Internet. That includes Web-Radio. That includes filesharing.

      He seems to feel that independent artists like Chip Davis (Mannheim Steamroller), Mike Oldfield (Tubular Bells, Ommadawn), and every kid who can't afford a record studio, but can afford a personal computer and a bit of software, should be SOL when it comes to music, as he wants it. Because Sir Elton is a Luddite (his own admission) and has no use for the Internet and all it brings, he sees no reason that anyone else should either. F-You, Elton!

      --
      "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  10. De minimis non curat lex by Scareduck · · Score: 4, Informative
    --

    Dog is my co-pilot.

  11. If a Country Really Wanted to Rip the Music Indust by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 4, Interesting
    If a country really wanted to rip the music industry a new one, they'd institute a reasonable 5 year copyright term for all new recordings. How many old albums are still in the top 10,000 after 4 years anyway.

    And once it went out of copyright there, it would be cut free out into the world.

    Talk about something to really scare the record companies.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  12. Wow by AlphaLop · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I wonder if I am too old to learn to speak German...

    Yet another country passes us on the personal freedom issue.

    --
    It's only paranoia if your wrong...
  13. Wait a minute! Did you..... by iknownuttin · · Score: 2, Funny
    It's ironic that the RIAA's storm-trooper tactics are supported by American courts, while Germany is the country standing up for individual rights.

    Wait a minute. Did you just sneak in Godwin's Rule? You didn't mention NAZIs, but then again you implied it. Arrrrrgh! I can't tell! My brain hurts!

    --
    I prefer Flambe as apposed flamebait.
  14. Re:History reversed by WK2 · · Score: 4, Funny

    It is interesting that you compare the RIAA to storm troopers. Each are just as likely to hit their target.

    --
    Write your own Choose Your Own Adventure. http://www.freegameengines.org/gamebook-engine/
  15. Re:German music sucks by Sique · · Score: 4, Insightful

    On the other hand Germany had its greatest and best musicans, when Copyright (or Author's Right) was virtually nonexistant: Heinrich Schütz, Johann Sebastian Bach, Johann Pachelbel, Philipp Telemann, Georg Friedrich Händel, Ludwig van Beethoven, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Josef Haydn, Felix Mendelssohn-Bartholdy, Robert Schumann...

    --
    .sig: Sique *sigh*
  16. Germany, eh? by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Any chance a German ISP will act as a proxy for people in more MAFIAA-friendly countries?

    --
    Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
  17. An old english expression by Big+Nothing · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't know if it exists in German, but in the english language there is an old expression for this kind of court decision. It's called "common sense" and seems to be all but extinct these days.

    --
    SIG: TAKE OFF EVERY 'CAPTAIN'!!
    1. Re:An old english expression by Scherf · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yes it does: "Gesunder Menschenverstand". If you translate it directly it would mean "a healthy human brain". Quite fitting, isn't it?

    2. Re:An old english expression by orgelspieler · · Score: 2, Funny

      Gute Idee! Ich habe den Artikel "plötzlicherausbruchdesgesundenmenschenverstands" ge-tagged.

  18. Thank God by Zatic · · Score: 3, Informative

    Being a German, I am actually surprised to see this. My law lecturer used to complain that over 20000 complaints were filed last year at our local court.

    The complaints never even get as far as to a single court hearing anyway. The mafiaa used to do this for reasons I commented on on another article:

    http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=253607&cid =19947567

  19. Re:Mozart died a pauper, while Clementi got rich by Sique · · Score: 4, Informative

    Mozart died penniless, because he was spending his money everywhere. He gambled, and when he and his family went on a way with a coach, there was a second coach accompanying him with his piano, so he could play whenever inspiration got him. He had literally hundreds of toupets, and coats.

    Mozart demanded three florins for a hour of music education he gave. The maid who was working for him and his wife, got 12 florins per annum as a salary. So basicly with half a day of work he made as much as normal people in a year.

    Later one his widow died with a wealth of five million florins, just because of the income from her late husbands work. It was not the income thad made Mozart penniless. ;)

    --
    .sig: Sique *sigh*
  20. Re:German music sucks by Sique · · Score: 2, Informative

    Mozart was from Salzburg. And at the time he was living, Salzburg was not a part of Austria. But it was part of the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation. As a matter of fact I am living in Austria (and in a part of Austria that is austrian or at least habsburgian since the late 14th century).

    --
    .sig: Sique *sigh*
  21. WTF are you talking about? by Funkysapien · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Riiiight.... and the abundance of those "muslim terroists", "turbin-headed children" and "women killers" in Hamburg and the whole of Germany explains the huge number of terroist attacks in Germany, doesn't it? Which is, by the way, ZERO for at least the last 10 years. Geez, what the hell are you talking about? And what is "the Bundesfraus" supposed to be? That word doesn't even exist in german language (and yes, german is my native language).