Mod Chip Raids In Perspective

GamePolitics has extensive coverage on the aftermath of this past week's Federal raids on suspected modchippers. There were numerous negative reactions to the action here on the site, and your comments were not alone. Many commenters at the site Dvorak Uncensored expressed similar frustration and disbelief at the federal government's priorities. As stated on the site's original post: "Are you kidding me? With drug dealers everywhere, murder, porous borders, terrorism the Feds are concerned about game mods?? Holy crap. Next I supposed they will be cracking heads over unlocked phones. Great." Meanwhile, one of the raided men is now without any electronics whatsoever as a result of the search and seizure, and feeling very much alone. Another man has (more seriously) been barred from seeing his girlfriend and daughter, and has been reduced to sleeping in his car. As he puts it: "I would like to formally thank Microsoft and Nintendo for cracking down on the little guy with a soldering iron in his garage, rather than going after the people that are responsible for the bootlegs being available."

Comments

Not allowed to see family members?

[karnal]

Because of what happened Im not allowed to see my girlfriend and our 4 month old daughter, and last night, I slept in my car They took my life away.

Not sure that that means that some judge and jury said "you can't see your gf and daughter" - just sounds like the situation caused some tension???

Sen-Sational!

Re:Not allowed to see family members?

[Drakkoon]

I think it has more to do with the fact that the warrant was for his grandmother's house, while the mod chipping stuff was at his girlfriend's house, where he willingly led the feds to so they could search. So it might have to do with that. The small article at game politics does sound very sensationnal, but the whole transcript at Xbox Scene didn't feel that way.

Re:Yea, like he's the victim

[aichpvee]

I don't happen to have a modchip to allow me to play backups, but that's because I haven't had enough broken discs to justify the cost. I have had one of my games bitten threw by my nephew and if I had small children living with me I'd definitely have one. So I guess you're in favor of Nintendo or Sony or whoever providing me replacement discs to my licensed software whenever anything happens to the original?

The US democractic system is broken.

[Inoshiro]

"I would like to formally thank Microsoft and Nintendo for cracking down on the little guy with a soldering iron in his garage, ..."

As long as people with money have more influence over those who make laws than people without money, the system will continue to represent the interests of those who have money. Look at the rejection of the justice system of allowing people on welfare to object to random searches of their houses; that's a rather large difference from what the US constitution has to say on the matter, but it is done to serve the interests of those who pay taxes against those who lack the ability (for whatever reason) to pay taxes. MPAA and RIAA crackdowns and suing actions (including those against the Swedes in their own country via the US gov't!) are similar reflections of the concept that money is power, not personal choice.

If you wish to not be in a situation where money decides power, move to a country with a representative democracy, where the representatives are purely chosen via 1 vote per 1 person, and where lobbying money is not allowed.

Re:The US democractic system is broken.

[ravenshrike]

Good god. No crime was committed in the "Rove Affair",better known as the Plame Affair, although there was the travesty of sending a staff official to jail over not remembering the exact fucking date of a, to him, relatively unimportant phone call that occurred at least 8-16 months ago(Don't know exact span of time). End of discussion, unless all of you assholes suddenly have eidetic memories.

How is installing modchips illegal?

[samwh]

It's my hardware, I can plug whatever I want into it. I can have other people do this for me. It is my hardware, I can use it as a doorstop, I can flush it down the toilet, I can light it on fire. The companies may be able to entitle themselves to software restrictions (DMCA encryption laws etc.), but when you come right down to it its just a hunk of metal and silicon. If the guy in the article was really just installing modchips, then I don't see why this warrents ANY law enforcement actiSDFwesfwefwe *NO CARRIER*

Re:How is installing modchips illegal?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hate to burst your bubble, but you can't do *anything* you want with the hardware. You own the physical piece of hardware, not the intellectual property inside it. You can't reverse engineer it and create your own knock off for sale.

Fact is that mod-chips are illegal under the DMCA and the manufacturers and sellers are also violating someone's intellectual property rights, which they will take you to court for anyways.

Hard to tell from the biased links but I assume they are going after people who manufacture and sell the chips in large quantities. Though, I'm sure that 2 out of 30 is a good sample size to assume they are targeting the "little" guy or the "users" like most comments seem to suggest.

hmm

[nomadic]

"Are you kidding me? With drug dealers everywhere, murder, porous borders, terrorism the Feds are concerned about game mods?? Holy crap. Next I supposed they will be cracking heads over unlocked phones. Great."

Because people can't be concerned about more than one thing at once. While I can sympathize with the thought behind this, the argument "they shouldn't enforce crime X until they've completely eradicated crime Y" is a ridiculous one.

Re:hmm

[nomadic]

Give me a break, actually go to the inner city sometime and see how "rampant" the crime is. And do you think any crime that does happen is because the police were raiding mod chippers? You're probably just another middle-class, suburban slashdotter who thinks watching cop shows gives him insight into the "streets".

It's all about priorities you shithead. Copyright infringement is a civil matter. Can't you understand that?

Go read what I wrote again, this time read every word you illiterate cretin. I said I sympathized with what the poster was saying, but that the GENERAL argument he was using wasn't a good one.

How do I train my audience...?

[tepples]

As a game player, I say write some games worth buying or fuck off. As a hobbyist game developer, I say I do, but how does my audience play them on a 27" TV without a modchip? If you mean TV-out, how do I train my audience to disconnect the PC, move it to the TV room, and connect it to the TV? And how do I train my audience to buy a GP2X so that they can play games on the bus or train without having to buy Datel's "Games n' Music" modchip for DS at Best Buy?

Yeah, he *is* a victim

[KingSkippus]

He isn't exactly an innocent victim and life does tend to suck after you've been caught breaking the law.

Do you ever speed? I mean, really, when everyone else is going 65 to 70 (or higher) miles per hour, are you really going to diligently only go 55?

Do you have any idea what the possible penalties for speeding are? I mean, sure, most people who get caught by the police get a slap-on-the-wrist fine, but do you know what you could face for speeding? Check your state laws; in involves losing your license to drive, facing hefty penalties, and jail time. If you've gotten speeding tickets before, that means that you're a repeat offender and they can really throw the book at you.

Yet still, I'll bet that when you get on the interstate, you go 70 right along with the rest of the cars. By your logic, that means that if a police officer pulls you over and arrests you, throws you in jail for a few months, you lose your license to drive, and have to pay thousands of dollars in fines, even though that may not be the normal punishment that fits the dinkiness of your crime, hey, you're not exactly an innocent victim, and your life sucking from now on is justified, since after all, you were caught breaking the law.

As far as I can tell, this guy was guilty of breaking a law that is just as silly as the one that says I'm supposed to drive 55 miles per hour on a straight road that is 10 lanes wide (I live in Atlanta, we really have interstates 10 lanes wide in 55 mile per hour zones), even if it's a lazy Sunday afternoon with perfect visibility and very low traffic volume.

I don't see anything in the article that says he was selling the modded boxes. I don't see anything that says he was using the modchips to steal games illegally. I don't see anything that says he was using modchips to distribute illegal copies of games. If he's guilty of some or all of those things, then maybe he does deserve a stiff penalty, but that should only happen after he's tried and convicted in court, after that little annoyance called due process runs its course. Right now, all I'm seeing is that he violated the DMCA, which says that regardless of your intent, you do not have the right to modify hardware that you purchased and own to suit your own needs. It says that corporations have the right to tell you what you can do with your own property. It says that if you're suspected of modifying your own property, regardless of intent and without due process, you will lose that property and more, and that's just not right.

Years from now, this law will be looked back upon as one of the most shameful and disgraceful that this country has ever had on the book. (At least, until the DMCA v2.0 is passed and Richard Stallman's dystopian future really does come to pass.) In the meantime, I hope you rethink your ideas that just because something is illegal it is immoral, and that people deserve whatever comes to them for breaking laws that, frankly, need to be broken.

First they came for the filesharers, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a filesharer;
Then they came for the modchippers, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a modchipper;
...

(I think you can guess the rest.)

Re:Yeah, he *is* a victim

[Anonymous Coward]

Look at the sales for Oblivion. Now, look at the copy protection on it...
Oh, you found none? And it had record breaking sales?
Maybe if you and your company didn't make shitty games you wouldn't have problems making a profit.

Re:Yeah, he *is* a victim

[KingSkippus]

First of all, calculating braking distances isn't a "little math and physics." You say that as if any sixth grader should be able to churn out the numbers without any problem. It actually requires calculus and mechanics to figure out, something that even most smart people don't really know or care about. (But since I spent over two years as a physics major in college and took mechanics and second-year calculus my first quarter--and got A's in both--I might know a little about it.)

Second of all, I guess that means that technically, since the stopping distance-to-velocity equation holds even for very small values of velocity, we should really all just stay home. Anything else is just grossly unsafe.

Third of all, traffic fatalities have actually be steadily decreasing per miles traveled. I know, it's an inconvenient little statistic, given all those maniacs out there like me who apparently don't give a rat's ass about safety.

Fourth of all, if you're going to present yourself as some sort of authority on math and physics, at least know what the hell you're talking about. Increasing your speed doesn't give diminishing returns with regards to travel time. If car A's average speed is exactly twice what car B's is, car A will arrive at its destination in exactly half the time as car B, period. Obviously, on surface streets, there's a practical limit as to how fast you can drive, but if you're able to increase your speed over a distance by x times, you will reduce your time to cover that distance by exactly a factor of x, no diminishing returns.

Also, the increase in stopping distance isn't an "expotentional" increase. It's not even an exponential increase. If it were, the stopping distance would vary as some constant to the power of the velocity. It doesn't. It varies as the square of velocity, which is a quadratic increase, not exponential.

But don't let that from keeping you from driving 55 miles per hour and feeling good about yourself. Around here, people who do that aren't making the roads safe, they're a nuisance, a road hazard that needs to take the bus instead (which, incidentally, also drives faster than 55) so that normal people can actually get where they're going.

Re:drug dealers everywhere

[vux984]

Why is stealing from "a large company" any better than stealing from a family or small company?

Its plain as day that stealing the rent/food/medicine money from a fixed income senior causes more harm than taking the same amount from a wealthy multinational corporation. Surely anyone can see that.

That doesn't make stealing from wealthy corporations ok, but from a harm perspective there is an obvious difference.

I have no sympathy for anyone claiming they had to steal for food. That's a bullshit excuse to justify immoral behavior.

Stealing for food is immoral but its less immoral than allowing someone to starve.

This is Dumb.

[hklingon]

There is something seriously wrong here. I'm not sure that no wrong was done, but I'm also sure that there were better things Federal Agents could have been doing.

I'm not really a gamer, but I have to say using an original XBox (cheaply acquired, second hand, pawn, etc) as a network media front end for something like MythTV is pretty awesome... This isn't really possible without modifcations. I'm not interested in playing games.. but what I am interested in is a cheap media center box with decent TV out capability. That is one Really Awesome, Non-Infringing use.

I don't really think any of the analogies fit, either. It is what it is, which is not necessarily used for game piracy (though probably is some significant percentage of the time). On the one hand you can say it is like installing feature X in your car to get more horsepower. Well, that'll make your car go faster... which is potentially illegal. I mean your stock Geo is perfectly capable of moving along at any set speed limit.. so any modification to go faster is intended to break the speed limit. ... It doesn't really fit either, but I would bet the situation could have been solved with a conversation, perhaps an interview at the station, etc.

However, that would require an intelligent and thoughtful analysis of the situation: the parties involved, the scope and scale of the crime, etc. Apparently the folks in charge here here were either intellectually incapable of that or Conditioned to Obey(tm). Either way it is scary, and that is probably the intention.

I feel sorry for the folks involved. Probably, on the whole, just nerds like us in the wrong place at the wrong time. One looses one's stuff for an inexcusably long time and one is presumed guilty. If one is lucky one gets to be a media poster child on some scale about the "Dangers of XYZ". I would hope these folks can truly get a trial with a jury of their peers AND that the judge doesn't force the omission of "irrelevant facts" like "there were no pirated games found at the home". I would love to see this type of thing crushed by Jury Nullification. (If you ever want out of Jury Duty go up to the prosecutor, lean in, and whisper 'I know all About Jury Nullification').

Consider the BS one has to go through for simple things involving the government such as DMV tag renewals, tickets for various minor offenses, property tax, etc and then consider the crap these folks will have to endure, probably for years, over a mod chip. This is dumb.

good publicity

[fermion]

Things like having everything taken away from you is good publicity for those who wish to prevent an action. Why pirate software if you might go bankrupt for doing so. Is it worth risking your family to play a game? Is it worth doing drugs if you can lose everything?

So these stories play right into the hands of people who push these kinds of actions. Detainment and confiscation without due process is a very powerful method of enforcing will upon the masses. Stories such as this allow those who wish to oppress to succeed.

What is unfortunate is that we fight fear with fear. We think laws are unjust because it causes those who break the laws to suffer. This method of fighting injustice does not work because sometimes in order to enforce a law people must suffer.

So why do not have the courage to fight from basic principles. We cannot take a persons stuff away without a conviction of a crime by his peers. We cannot take a persons freedom without probable cause and timely due process. We cannot say that person is a witch, and then kill them knowing full well no jury will convict us. At least in the US, we were founded on the principle that we have inherent rights, and that those rights were given to us by our creator, though it seems that some people believe, especially in the US administration, only Americans were given those rights, or perhaps they do not believe in a creator, even though in their cowardice they claim to.

I think that some people want it all. They are cowards who are perfectly happy to have others suffer without due process, but when it happens to them they whine to the media. Get used to it. The congress is afraid of being called traitors, that they are further increasing the power of the government to take whatever they wish from the people without due process. This little mod chip thing is small potatoes, and meaningless. The power was given freely by the republican representatives of the people.

Are hobbyist game developers "thieving swine"?

[tepples]

However, if you work for a game developer, publisher or related company, and see your employer laying off staff while ...hobbyists develop their own games and run them on the modded console, you call your hobbyist competitors "thieving swine", right?

Re:drug dealers everywhere

[thegnu]

First problem - finding NORMAL people. By this I assume you mean people that aren't immediately addicted or become overly dependent very quickly.

Actually, I meant people who are not criminals, demonized, or marginalized for their choice of chemicals. I think that pharmaceuticals are far far worse than my first two categories (except cigs, maybe). People are completely trusting of their doctors, who are completely trusting of the sponsorship of the drug companies. I'm far, far, far more selective about what I put in my body than most people, even though it includes illegal substances, and things child-drugging alcoholic valium-popping H3-driving soccer moms consider dangerous.

The second problem is there are certainly people that can handle drugs but there is a large number of people that cannot. How do you separate them out? The people that will utterly freak out on PCP or LSD. The people that after three doses of coke will do literally anything for the next, including sell their children, rob relatives, etc.

We could continue as a culture suggesting that people not do drugs. For categories 2 through 4, I'm suggesting at the very least NOT throwing some 19-year old in prison because he was at a low point when someone offered him some coke. I'm suggesting that if someone does acid, he shouldn't have to worry about asking for help if he gets freaked out. I'm not saying people SHOULD do drugs. I will not ever do any of my class 4 drugs. I think that the current system of what is essentially abstinence-only education is bullshit and non-functional. If I had been better-educated about drugs, I wouldn't have called a whole bunch of people the first time I did mushrooms.

I'm merely suggesting that a more permissive society lends itself to children coming to the proper people for answers for difficult questions, rather than having to learn about drugs from drug dealers. Try learning about a Ford from a Ford dealer. Or a computer from a computer salesman (why yes, it DOES play with your balls!).

As far as I know, there isn't a test you can give someone that will say they can handle some drug.

An educated and judicious acid-user (not abuser) can tell if someone will have problems when they take it. Educating people about the drug, again, is the safest plan. I am now very very very educated. After a few bad experiences, I found erowid.org, and it has kept me healthy when I did drugs I was going to do anyway (though I may have taken some of those trips back now), and it kept me safe and sane knowing what was going to happen to me and knowing that I'd done everything I could to keep safe.

Ever seen any of the above behavior? It's not pretty and current laws pretty much prevent them from being confined in any way until they actually do something to harm others.

I have seen my best friend from childhood end up hooked on crystal meth. It was a lack of education, and a lack of hope. The inexistence of support structures, the pressure from land developers to get poor mexicans off their prime golf-course real estate, and finally, him being careless. I went back to Mexico, and he wouldn't smoke weed anymore because it made him feel sick. He smoked with me once, and got sick and lashed out at me so violently that I almost fainted. I tripped with him, pleaded with him, tried to get him to get his motherfucking visa so I could pay for his ticket up to the US so he could get out of his toxic environment. I tried everything short of duct-taping him to a tree. Now, in retrospect, I would have. He had an alcoholic father, and a family that used to ride our asses about weed before we ever smoked, and they were friendly to us when we finally started. His mother ended up fucking his dad's best friend, and his dad moved back to Sinaloa, and he was stuck being the asshole head of family that his two sisters and his mother berated. Nobody gave a fuck about him. So yes, I have seen the problems with drugs, I just don't see where any of the above would have been made any worse by him not being considered a criminal and a piece of shit, and a little bit of straightforward education.

Re:Video games go out of print

[Brian Gordon]

What does it matter what people do with your product? You make a mod chip to learn about the hardware and show off your skillz, maybe make some money. You're customizing the hardware. The old Altair and Atari PCs absolutely depended on people building their own mod chips.. and it's still perfectly legal of course to design your own hardware components for your computer... but somehow these gaming companies have made it illegal to modify your own hardware if you bought it from them! It's really a ridiculous situation, and as a promoter of common sense I say **** off.

Re:Fuck off whiners

[LKM]

In the meantime, we still don't have Super Paper Mario and Second Opinion for the Wii in Europe. Many Japanese games don't appear over here, ever. I'm willing to give you my money, and I can't, because the Wii is not region-free. Why in the world should it be illegal to install a mod chip in my Wii which allows me to buy your games?

The seller should not have to police the buyer

[LKM]

I don't think it's the modchip seller's task to make sure his customers respect the law. How do you propose this should work?

It's not the gun seller's task to ensure his customers don't kill anyone. It's not the Internet provider's task to ensure his customers don't download pirated apps. It's not the car seller's task to ensure his customers aren't driving recklessly. We have the police and a judicial system for that.

Re:Video games go out of print

[lupis42]

The fact that most mod chips allow the playing of pirated games is a direct consequence of the fact that they allow the loading of software that doesn't use the copy/access restriction system. This is a necessary bypass to make to enable homebrew games, because homebrew developers can't make games that work with said access restriction system. Nobody here has been charged with any copyright violations. Nobody has stolen anything. If I make a shotgun, and you use it to rob liquor stores, that's not my fault. If I make you a dvd-burner, and mod it into your Dell, and you use it to pirate dvds, that's not my fault. If I make a racing chip for your car, and you use the added performance to evade cops in a police chase, it's still not my fault. What about all the people who hacked the original Xbox to make it an MCE pc, and never bought or stole a game? If modifying a privately owned hardware good without knowing how it will be used can be illegal, than homebuilt PCs should be illegal, because 99% of them contain some trace of pirated software, pirated media, or just software that infringes on patents. What about the people who bought PS3s, knowing that Sony was selling them at a loss, then ripped them apart for the blue lasers?