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Pay-For-Visit Advertising

theodp writes "US patent office documents released Thursday show that a startup named Pelago is seeking a patent covering Pay-For-Visit Advertising, which uses GPS, Bluetooth, or RFID on your mobile devices to track your travels to see if you wander into a place of business that appeared in an ad shown earlier on your cellphone, PDA, or laptop. To maximize ad revenue, phone calls are also tracked to see if you dial a number associated with an ad, and financial transactions are examined to see if you make a purchase from an advertiser. The application goes on to note that the system may be of interest to government agencies. Pelago just raised $7.4M from the likes of KPCB and Jeff Bezos."

27 of 176 comments (clear)

  1. no thanks by stoolpigeon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    i've got to think that this will create a market for phones that wont allow this kind of thing to happen. i'd go without a cell phone before i'd let myself be tracked like that everywhere i go.

    --
    It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
    1. Re:no thanks by jellomizer · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Oh and you shouldn't use a credit, debit card or checks for any of your transactions, forget about Buying stuff online or mail order.

      Back in them olden days when we went to the corner store Bob behind the counter knew what your spending habbits were and gave you options on what was new and good, and if Bob was a bit chatty half the town would know your spending habbits. We acuatlly have far more privacy per day. You are being tacked as a number and that number is rairly connected to you personally. So the whole town doesn't know your spending habbits just some guys from xyz knows that 9384123223 likes to buy keyboards, or is in a market for keyboards. Don't expect the governement to get it right if they cant realize when you put in a change of address for a new license and they will not send you notices that your registration is out of date to the new address I doubt they can figure anything else about you.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    2. Re:no thanks by Lockejaw · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You are being tacked as a number and that number is rairly connected to you personally.
      Nope, just to my shipping info... but that includes my name. Then that info is available to anyone willing to pay for it. And then the credit card company sees where all my payments go and can sell that data.
      Seriously, if you want anonymity, buy stuff at a brick-and-mortar store, and pay cash. The whole town doesn't know your spending habits. There's just some guy at xyz who knows that tall skinny guy with graying hair bought a lot of cereal half an hour ago. Of course, the chance that he cares enough to remember the purchase half an hour later is slim.
      --
      (IANAL)
    3. Re:no thanks by Mr.+No+Skills · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Seriously, if you want anonymity, buy stuff at a brick-and-mortar store, and pay cash.

      I think the point of concern with some is that even this will stop working if you carry a cell phone with you. They watch you coming in and going through the checkout line even if you pay in cash.

      --
      Sleep is for the Weak
  2. Can't I just have the chip implanted already? by PoliTech · · Score: 5, Funny

    I really dont want to carry all those gadgets around, especially at the beach. So if you could just inject that RFID tag into my neck right here...

  3. Consumer participation required? by ricebowl · · Score: 5, Insightful

    From reading the synopsis it seems that it would require the participation/consent of the mobile phone user to allow tracking. From activating bluetooth visibility, or accepting a phone with an RFID feature. It'd be interesting to see if this has any similarity to the oft-rumoured GPhone.

    But why would a consumer, given the relatively low prices of cell phones, tariffs and contracts, accept this? I'm speaking from the UK but I can't imagine that US cell contracts, etc, are so prohibitively expensive that this would be an attractive form of subsidy. Especially given the potential 'government interest.'

    1. Re:Consumer participation required? by BUL2294 · · Score: 2, Informative

      And you might have noticed that some DVD players don't let you skip ads, previews and other nuisances.
      It's not that the DVD players don't let you skip these nuisances, it's that the chapter/title/whatever tells the DVD player to not let you skip them. There are valid reasons why you shouldn't be allowed to skip chapters on some DVDs (i.e. a DVD-video based game played on your TV, or an educational DVD that tests you and your answers determine the next question, etc.) but, IMHO, no DVD movie that you paid $$$ for has a valid reason for not allowing you to skip chapters. The studios are just abusing the system and pissing off their customers... (Hence the popularity of DVD movie backup software that lets you rip the feature film only...)
      --
      Windows 3.1x calc: 3.11 - 3.10 = 0.00
    2. Re:Consumer participation required? by Pragmatix · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Why would someone participate in this?

      Let's say you went to the mall, and you were looking for some Christmas gifts. You phone has a neat little feature called 'Instant Discount'. If you turn it on while shopping, it will feed you coupons and specials from the various stores as you walk around. So you pass a Banana Republic and see a coupon for 25$ off on a pair of pants.

      You duck in, get some pants, save some cash. The store gets a sale they might not have had. Whoever runs the ad service gets a little piece of the sale. Everyone is happy.

      I have no problem with this kind of feature, as long as you can turn it on or off.

  4. So basically... by shakingbrave · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They are going to track who I call, where I go, and what I buy...while having all of this linked to personally identifying information. Who in their right mind would subscribe to such a service? The privacy implications are mind boggling...if the police can subpena this information or the government can "silently" access it, say goodbye to the American way of life...

    1. Re:So basically... by DogDude · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The privacy implications are mind boggling

      The privacy implications of a phone that reports back to ad agencies isn't nearly as mind boggling as the Fed's new law that says all US/international communications can be bugged with no search warrant needed. The American way of life is already long gone. The problem is that nobody seems to care.

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    2. Re:So basically... by eln · · Score: 2, Insightful

      if the police can subpena this information or the government can "silently" access it, say goodbye to the American way of life... I thought that WAS the American way of life. We are living in a post-9/11 world, after all.
    3. Re:So basically... by ArcadeX · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Not saying i'm for this in any way, but if the phone were provided free, and the add company paid for the phone / service via the adds, I could see older people on budgets, or broke teens not having a problem trading freedoms for services.

      --
      An I.T. motto in the hands of an idiot is a dangerous thing...
  5. what a crock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    most of the places I got to, I got to via personal recommendation.

    Not to mention, that would require a corporate agency tracking my every move. I'll just put it this way:
    If you don't trust the government, ostensibly supposed to be for the benefit of the people living in its juristiction, watching your every move, how the hell can you trust a corporation, ostensibly (and in practice) supposed to be for the financial and power gain of those in cahrge of the company, to keep track of you to that extent?

  6. Gasp! by jellomizer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Companies are trying to evaulate to see if their marketing is working or not. How dare they, I want to be flooded with adds that I don't care about, vs. showing me products and or services that may help me in life, with sites offering better tracking services they could charge more per add, thus less adds per page. But that is not the slashdot way, we want NO adds but still we want our websites to run for free even though these people deticate their lives full time to this and have expenses too. Good targeting means less adds, more revenue to web sites, and less anoyances during the day. If Big Brother wants to know your spending habbits they just need a warent and pull your bank information. No need for this crazy loosy goosy stuff, that will mostly help make your life better.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    1. Re:Gasp! by Penguinisto · · Score: 2, Informative

      But that is not the slashdot way, we want NO adds but still we want our websites to run for free even though these people deticate their lives full time to this and have expenses too. Good targeting means less adds, more revenue to web sites, and less anoyances during the day.

      Okay... here's some small tips that may help:

      • If a website or other media delivery vehicle tends to specialize (e.g. /. tends to specialize in IT and geek pr0n), you tailor your advertisements to your primary market. If I go to a 3d/CG hobbyist art website, I expect to see ads for the likes of Poser, Bryce, DAZ, etc, with maybe some low-end Maya, 3DS Max and such thrown in. I don't expect to see mortgage ads in either place. (If I do, then obviously the site owner is operating sans clue, which almost subliminally makes my opinion of the content to be a bit suspect. After all, if they can't grok their audience, then how do I know that they truly grok what they're presenting otherwise?)
      • This does not require complex GPS tracking, retina scanning, or any other such crap. It merely means that the site owners need to know their primary and secondary readership.
      • For general purpose websites (like a newspaper, say) you can use cookies based on what type of content the user reads more often than not. Again, no need to an RFID chip in someone's left ear to do that
      • Even on a mobile scale, the best way to know if an ad works is the old-fashioned way, just updated: Put a friggin' "Save X% off your purchase if you display the linked coupon page on your iPhone/Treo/etc to the server at the counter!" with some unique splotch of numbers and letters on that "coupon" can that can be punched in by the guy taking your money. See? No need to assign facial recognition software to every mobile's camera or something...

      In short, there are a ton of ways to make your advertising revenue work for you (as a business) and at the same time not have to resort to some bullshit intrusion that only adds bloat and inconvenience to the user's equipment and resources.

      /P

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
  7. It begins by MarcoG42 · · Score: 2, Funny

    I've never been one of the people that sports a tinfoil hat, and now I can't because they'll know when I go to the store, what I bought, how much I payed for it and what I was thinking when I bought it.

    --
    If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
  8. Now I will generate revenue for somebody by crovira · · Score: 4, Funny

    without my knowledge of who, what or where, just by going to work everyday.

    1. Set up a surveillance society,
    2. Watch everybody all the time,
    3. ???
    4. Profit

    Steps 1 & 2 are already happening whether we want them to or not. Its a done deal.

    But the greedy little prick wants to patent it too.

    God I wish I had balls that big.

    --
    MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
  9. Re:Can you say "Minority Report" by cerelib · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Here is the scary thing. I think most marketing professionals saw Minority Report and said, "That's the greatest idea ever!"

  10. What does the customer get out of this? by immcintosh · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Well, I guess that question wouldn't matter for a less invasive advertising platform, but what this seems to be proposing is currently impossible without the customer's explicit agreement and cooperation. So I'm wondering what they plan on giving the customer to make this ever remotely appealing?

  11. How do they get the location data? by klingens · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What allows them to access my cellphone remotely and access its GPS receiver? Why would my cellphone tell them the GPS location in the first place?
    Are there really phones on the market which allow this? If so, what prevents evil terrorist(tm) to do the same as this company then? Are phonemakers terrorism supporters?!one!?eleven!

  12. "Good afternoon, Mr. Yakamoto," by apodyopsis · · Score: 2, Insightful

    let me be the first to say "Good afternoon, Mr. Yakamoto,".

    http://curtismorley.com/2007/02/06/minority-report -and-mini-cooper/

    Personalized advertising just jumped out of the cookie jar (no, get your mind off the choc chips lardy, I'm talking browsers here) and into the real world. Somehow the idea of large corporations tracking me makes me feel a great unease, we can trust them to value money over common decency and politeness.

  13. Consumer opt-out action required by Radon360 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    From reading the synopsis it seems that it would require the participation/consent of the mobile phone user to allow tracking

    FWIW, this tracking is enabled by default in virtually every phone that has the capabiliity of being commercially tracked. The phone user has to recognize that it is enabled and then go through the menus to turn it off. Not a hard thing to do, but like most things, something that is largely overlooked by the masses.

  14. Re:Can you say "Minority Report" by starglider29a · · Score: 2, Interesting

    They said the same thing about the "mark of the beast". "That no man may buy or sell without..."

    It is and has been a great idea for nearly 2000 years... if you can ignore the downside.

  15. Stalking for fun and Profit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Has anyone else noticed the disturbing [to me, anyway] trend towards actions being illegal if performed by a private individual, but legally acceptable if performed by a corporation, for profit?

  16. I have two simple, effective words for Pelago... by fallen1 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Fuck. You.

    --

    Dream as if you'll live forever.
    Live as if you'll die tomorrow.
    ~Anonymous~

  17. Wunderbar by Cleon · · Score: 2, Funny

    Oh, yay. Yet another way for big business to keep track of places we go, the food we eat, the air we breathe.

    It's only a matter of time before toilets start detecting our DNA in order to show us targeted ads on the the stall door while we take a shit.

    --
    Gifts for Geeks - Stuff that really matters!
  18. Re:Data bill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Your spelling and grammar are so bad that I think it gave me cancer.

    "Cell phones and PDA users may end up having to pay the data bill for ads that they may not even want, and how many people will want to waste their batteries on Bluetooth for this?