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Microsoft Moves in on the Graphics Market

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the good-visuals-lucrative-software dept.

Ian Lamont writes "Microsoft has quietly been building up graphics-related R&D, reports Computerworld, noting that Microsoft employees will be presenting one out of every eight papers at SIGGRAPH 2007. And it's not a fluke — other recent Microsoft graphics-related developments include Photosynth, which has been discussed on Slashdot several times, as well as the Silverlight/Expression Studio graphics suite, which will compete with Adobe's Flash/Illustrator/Lightroom/Dreamweaver offerings. At SIGGRAPH, Microsoft will supposedly have demos of some new software including image deblurring tools and Soft Scissors, which 'solves the vexing problem of how to cut and paste an image from one background to another if the image's edges — hair blowing in the wind, blades of grass — are very complex.' Microsoft's competitors aren't sitting down. Adobe's CEO, calling Microsoft a '$50 billion monopolist,' has questioned whether Silverlight will be compatible with non-Windows operating systems, and Google has also been building up its own graphics-related software products, such as the 3D modeling tool SketchUp, and Google Earth."

30 of 237 comments (clear)

  1. Microsoft might be a monopolist... by HaloMan · · Score: 4, Insightful

    but I can't feel any sympathy for Adobe, who is increasingly monopolising the design arena with their obscenely priced tools. Competition is good, no matter what your opinion on Microsoft is - someone needs to take on rapidly enlarging 500lb gorilla that is Adobe, particularly since they took over Macromedia.

    1. Re:Microsoft might be a monopolist... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And if it sucks, so what? Nobody is forcing anyone to buy it. Frontpage was shit, which is why it was discontinued.

      And, FWIW, Dreamweaver isn't good either, it's just the best of a bad bunch.

    2. Re:Microsoft might be a monopolist... by HaloMan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Which is why we should welcome Microsoft employing professionals and bringing alternative robust solutions for doing professional work.

      I don't see anyone losing if there's two professional-quality graphics applications competing with each other. Except possibly Adobe's share price.

    3. Re:Microsoft might be a monopolist... by Hijacked+Public · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm a professional photographer, which is one of the high end high margin markets Microsoft would like to do more business in, and is the 5% you guess at above. If they want in they'll need to deal with Photoshop in some way. If Paint.net, or GIMP, or any of the other giveaway photo programs do all you need, you are both not the market we're talking about here nor do you understand its needs.

      I went to one day of Microsoft's Pro Photo Summit last month and I get the impression they are quite serious about this. More so than in the past.

      --
      "Sacrifice for the good of The State" - The State
    4. Re:Microsoft might be a monopolist... by vought · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't see anyone losing if there's two professional-quality graphics applications competing with each other. Except possibly Adobe's share price.

      How about professional graphic artists and other who have to exchange files between the two suites all the time? I'm pretty sure they'll lose:

      -Money. They'll have to buy both suites.
      -Money. They'll have to keep two platforms and three binaries around if they're a Mac shop, and they'll have to have someone manage all of it.
      -Productivity. Even if interoperable somehow, converting from one tool/platform to another rarely goes smoothly.
      -Time. It'll all take longer.

      Adobe does a great job with it's tools. I'd love to see someone develop something from the ground up that does most of what Photoshop or (insert your favoite Adobe tool here) using the same file formats Adobe currently uses.

      Microsoft, however, is known for mediocre approaches using mediocre tools. I'm not eager to see what they plan to do using new file formats and new approaches. I'll be the first to admit it i I'm wrong, but all I see happenening is a repeat of the desktop publishing market in the early-to-mid 90s: lots of different software, lots of delays, and lots of clueless newbies who think that because it says "Microsoft", it's automagically an accepted standard.

    5. Re:Microsoft might be a monopolist... by pressman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Oh come on. Adobe is so deeply entrenched in their market with a bevvy of world class apps, that even Microsoft won't be able to put a dent in it. No one at Microsoft cares about or understands the need of graphic artists and content creators. They just don't care. The only reason they are attempting to get into this space is because they see a potential for profit. They'll find the fastest and cheapest way to get into the market and they'll inundate the market with a load of crap software that will only make Flash, Illustrator and Photoshop look even better by comparison.

      Will this stuff run on a Mac? Where the vast majority of creative work is done? Of course not.... except through Boot Camp or Paralells. They're starting off handicapped from the get-go. This whole suite of apps and delivery methods is still born. They are only trying to make some cash and that is not a good motivating factor for making software. Having a good idea that meets the needs of your customers and then building the tool for them and pricing it accordingly to make a profit is the far better approach.

      --
      Pooty tweet
    6. Re:Microsoft might be a monopolist... by The+Great+Pretender · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Personally I don't believe that the business folks at microsoft really give a toss about the highend 5%. Put some numbers on it. Say for easy math that Adobes market is worth $100 million dollars. 5% is worth a pretty big $5 million, but Microsoft most likely cares about the $95 million. Adobe can probably keep their 5% high end users and MS wouldn't even blink.

      --
      A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
    7. Re:Microsoft might be a monopolist... by KlomDark · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Adobe? The same lazy company that STILL hasn't released a 64-bit Flash player for either Windows or Linux. XP x64 has been out for something like four years now, now Vista x64 is out too.

      Unacceptable - 64-bit is solidly here now, even my non-technical mom, and my son's daycare provider, both have 64-bit machines. (Albeit with 32 bit XP on them)

      Much as I dislike a lot of stuff about Microsoft, I'm sold on Silverlight. Adobe's apparently ignoring the evolution of their products. I am very sick of getting "Click here to install the Flash plug-in", only to see their lame excuse "We're working on it". Give us at least a crappy beta version guys...

    8. Re:Microsoft might be a monopolist... by Pyrion · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Mozilla has yet to release an "official" Firefox x64 build for Windows, so complain to them first. 32-bit Flash works just fine within 32-bit Firefox on Vista x64.

      Really, I don't see them moving to 64-bit until they actually have reason to. Either MS forces the issue (by abandoning 32-bit) or memory requirements force the issue.

      --
      "There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." - Bertrand Russell.
    9. Re:Microsoft might be a monopolist... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Which is why we should welcome Microsoft employing professionals and bringing alternative robust solutions for doing professional work.

      Why we should welcome .... ?! Bullshit! There is no reason we welcome this. Microsoft's anticompetition is not a good thing for us, only for Microsoft. Their history shows that this will be an attack on progress, to try to control it. Fuck Microsoft and the so called "professionals" that work for them, they should know better.

    10. Re:Microsoft might be a monopolist... by amsr · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Honestly, do you really care that much about watching YouTube videos and website ads in 64bit? I mean I could understand if you were complaining about photoshop, but flash player? What does 64 bit flash playing get you over 32bit flash playing?

    11. Re:Microsoft might be a monopolist... by pressman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, AfterEffects... these are all high end products that a niche market absolutely needs in order to do work. A word processor and internet browser on the other hand are useful to the vast majority of computer users. Since M$ controlled the desktop OS market, it was VERY easy for them to inundate the masses with cheap or free tools and undercut their rivals and get themselves yet another monopoly.

      When most of the creative types out there are using Macs and Adobe software, M$ doesn't have the same leverage... they don't don't have Windows to tip things in their favor and gain the dominance they want.

      When M$ wants into the niche markets, they always have a hard time. When they want to get into a field that every average user is in, they just make it free in Windows and BANG! Instant market domination.

      They're getting their asses handed to them in the video game console war... they're a non-entry in the portable entertainment device arena and they're struggling in search services.

      They're not invincible and in the niche markets, where people care about quality. They really really struggle because they a) don't care about those customers and b) just don't understand them. Making a tool cheap or even free isn't going to make people flock to it. If that were the case we'd all be singing the praises of GIMP on Linux and have no clue what Photoshop is.

      People who need the tools and a high standard of reliability will flock to the tools that provide that. Adobe is a company that provides tools of that caliber.... and they are worth every penny! Microsoft doesn't give a rats ass about quality, all they care about is market share and income streams... if they had their way, they'd give up software altogether and find a way to have congress force us to pay them money for no reason.

      --
      Pooty tweet
  2. Multiplatform Flash? by BobPaul · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Adobe's CEO, calling Microsoft a '$50 billion monopolist,' has questioned whether Silverlight will be compatible with non-Windows operating systems While it's certainly a valid point, I can't help remember how long it took Adobe to build Flash 9 for Linux, after first stating that Flash 7 would be the last version available. I'm just as concerned with Flash10 support for non-Windows OSs as I am Silverlight support.
    1. Re:Multiplatform Flash? by semiotec · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Exactly. Not to mention the still total absence of major non-free (as in beer) Adobe products (e.g. Acrobat, Photoshop-related) for Linux. They were quite happy being the "monopoly" in their areas, and as far as I know, they only really opened up the PDF spec after MS announced Metro as a direct competitor to Adobe.

      They should stop complaining about MS monopoly when they are one of the major contributing factors towards preventing people moving away from MS products. Even Mac users are treated as second class citizens behind Windows users these days.

      Plus, if they want to compete, more on better technology and less on publicity. Calling MS a "monopolist" isn't going to make it go away.

    2. Re:Multiplatform Flash? by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Microsoft has stated they will support Linux


      Citations, please.

      the standard is open and anyone can implement it.


      To Microsoft, an 'open standard' is one in which they get to hide certain details so that only their implementation works properly, of course. In Microsoft-speak 'cross-platform' (which is a term used on the Silverlight MSDN site) means that it runs on Windows XP and on Windows Vista.

      --
      My blog
  3. Compatibility... by laddy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Adobe's CEO ... has questioned whether Silverlight will be compatible with non-Windows operating systems"

    Because I've neeever had problems with Flash on my Linux machine...

  4. cross platform oncre and for all time by icepick72 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Adobe's CEO, calling Microsoft a '$50 billion monopolist,' has questioned whether Silverlight will be compatible with non-Windows operating systems,


    Silverlight has been cross-platform since launch. The Adobe CEO questioned whether this would persist. Microsoft didn't invest on porting a subset of the .NET framework to Mac only to deprecate it. No, Silverlight will continue to be cross-platform for long while ... especially if the marketplace stays competitive. Whether or not its optimized well enough for the other platforms, well that's another story.

    1. Re:cross platform oncre and for all time by PyroPunk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's cross platform from the standpoint of the browser plugin works on Windows and Mac, but to create the Silverlight content that runs you need to do it on Windows; at least at this point. Expression isn't a Mac tool. But, I can fire up Flash on Windows or Mac to create Flash content, and also use some Open Source tools on Linux to do that. I think that may be what he means on cross platform.

    2. Re:cross platform oncre and for all time by larien · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Microsoft didn't invest on porting a subset of the .NET framework to Mac only to deprecate it. LMAO... Are you serious? It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they did that. They pay lip service to "cross-platform", get everyone to invest their futures in it, get locked in and then they stop maintaining it. That way, everyone now has a load of windows-only stuff that they're stuck with.
  5. I have to agree. by khasim · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What, specifically, is Bruce Chizen's plan to support non-Microsoft OS's?

    Don't bitch about how the bad monopoly is being mean to you when you aren't doing anything much to help the nascent competition.

    Paying one programmer to port and support your apps on other platforms does more than all the public whining about how Microsoft is being mean.

  6. Correct me if I'm wrong by fistfullast33l · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But isn't Microsoft the developer of Direct3D, which is now a premiere graphics API for anything Windows? Yes, OpenGL still is extremely important, but I just don't see why it's a surprise that Microsoft has so many researchers contributing to the field of computer graphics when they develop one of the two biggest graphics platforms in the world.

  7. Re:THis could be good news! by TheNetAvenger · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Considering Silverlight can be written literally in notepad or XAMLpad, this will put a big dent in Adobe's premium development tool costs that are required for Flash and Web content creation.

  8. dumb companies... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Software application companies only develop for Windows, help MS keep their OS monopoly up, and then cry when MS decides to take those app companies' market too. They enabled it with their short sightedness.

  9. Just desserts... by Bert64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It is many of these companies that, through the release of countless windows programs, many exclusively for windows, that have helped microsoft get to where they are today.
    Did they really believe that microsoft wouldn't move in on their territory sooner or later?

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  10. Mod parent up by Dadoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That way, everyone now has a load of windows-only stuff that they're stuck with.

    This is one of the reasons I think Mono is a bad idea. All Microsoft has to do is be friendly to Mono, until everyone drops their guard and decides it's okay to develop in dotNET. Then, all they need to do is start enforcing their patents, and it's all over...

    --
    Sit, Ubuntu, sit. Good dog.
  11. Re:If I Were Adobe by Bert64 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And a lot of this is down to the lack or adobe apps being available for linux.
    If adobe had ported their apps several years ago, than microsoft's position within this market would be much weaker making it a lot harder for them to force adobe out in the way they're now trying.

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  12. Adobe barks about MS Monopoly? WTF? by Ralph+Spoilsport · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Adobe is a monopoly unto itself!

    Image editing? Photoshop. Sure there's GIMP, but frankly, GIMP sucks and has no value outside of RGB colour space. There are a few other apps, (Painter, Corel, etc.) but the POINT is: pros use Photoshop because it is the best. Period.

    Bezier Curve? Illustrator. There used to be a better app, Freehand, but it died in the Macromedia acquisition.

    Page Layout? Sure, there's Quark, but everyone HATES Quark, and InDesign does the job. So, that's not a monopoly, yet...

    Web Design? Dreamweaver. nuff said.

    Web based animation? Flash.

    Adobe completely dominates the graphic design industry, and for Adobe to make noises about MS being some kind of a monopoly is simply ludicrous.

    RS

    --
    Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
  13. 500 lb gorilla or... by Arthur+Grumbine · · Score: 2, Insightful

    15,000 lb elephant? The gorilla may be more adept with it's tools, but the elephant has a lot of weight to swing around and can hurt a lot more(in magnitude and multitude) in the long run.

    If the previous mainstream outside-the-OS/Office ventures of MS are any indication (see Xbox, Zune, et al) though, it's competitor(Adobe here) is going to put up a serious fight, and the consumer will enjoy the effects of the competition, just like if we got to watch an actual 500 lb gorilla and an actual 15,000 lb elephant fight...

    Hmmm...time to go search the YouTube...

    --
    Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure everything I just said is completely wrong.
  14. Re:Mod parent up by icepick72 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Somebody yells "patents" and everybody agrees even if no information is given, at least it's a nice sound byte to buy karma. What patents might that be? Are there any?... and how would they be used? ... aw forget it because that might lead to constructive or clear points. It's unfortunate so many people are willing to jump on a bandwagon because that's where the party is. Hey Microsoft sucks YAY!

  15. Look into Flex and even AIR. by JackAxe · · Score: 2, Insightful

    http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/Flex:Open_Sou rce http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/Apollo These are still new, but Macrobe is making sure these are all cross platform. With Flex you can create Flash content. You just need to know how to do Action Script.