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China Sets Sights on Comprehensive Lunar Survey
eldavojohn writes "Perhaps unsatisfied with the closeups that Google Moon has to offer, China has decided to survey the moon down to the 'inch'. In the second half of 2007, they plan to launch an unmanned lunar satellite to first orbit the moon, land on the moon & then return samples to earth for them to analyze. '"The moon probe project is the third milestone in China's space technology after satellite and manned spacecraft projects, and a first step for us in exploring deep space," the China National Space Administration head said. The orbiter represented the first phase, with a moon rover to be used in the second phase scheduled for around 2012, reports said. The plan for the third phase, scheduled for around 2017, was for another rover to land on the lunar surface and collect samples before returning to Earth.'"
Think they'll survey any moon landers?
Anyone want to start laying bets on who lands a person on Mars first? It's looking more and more like the Chinese if you ask me.
A-Bomb
I'm not jealous. Unlike the U.S., which I honestly believe is no longer capable of carrying out a project like this (hell, we can barely keep our 26-year-old space shuttle program afloat), I hope China has a real shot at making headway in the exploration of space.
Just because we can't do it doesn't mean that I hope it won't be done. If they can make progress where we can't, all the better!
they need it mapped at that scale for when they miniaturize themselves and swing by on their way to mars.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
Of course, he'll probably just invent a new fantasy where China collaborates with NASA to continue a hoax.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Here I was worried that China was about to wake up and discover their industrial and technological might, and crush the U.S. like a bug. It turns out they woke up alright, but instead decided to test their prowess by engaging in a multi-trillion dollar moon-ography bee.
So is anyone going to make a stink when China claims the Moon for themselves?
I know there is a treaty prohibiting this, though I don't know if China is signatory, and I don't know if they care, or if they'll find a way out of it.
But it appears that the general way if the future is: China does what China wants.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
Funny how all empires fall.
How did the US get to be such a disgrace?
Oh. Thats how
Don't the Chinese use centimeters like everyone else? ;-)
Why would they do this? Unless they plan to hollow it out...
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
Here's why: -
1: All my electroic stuff save my monitor are Chinese made.
2: On my way to work, I ride on Chinese made tires.
3: My clothing is Chinese made...the same applies to
4: Furniture
5: Coffee maker
6: and so many others. I am beginning to think that these Chinese could one day place sanctions on the US...a pretty scary thought. The other day, they shot a satellite from orbit. On this front, we thought Russia was our only competition. Are we prepared?
China plans to make cheap, high end moon knockoffs to sell to neighboring planets.
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed H
I just hope it isn't bogged down in political red tape (pun not intended), and that this is a real science expedition, with the results freely shared among the scientist of the entire world.
I hope they've solved some of the problems getting lunar soil samples back. The Apollo program had some issues, and they never did get a sample back still sealed air-tight. http://www.mitchross.com/blog/index.php?itemid=35
OK, but what is the next stage??
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Lunar Reconnaisance Orbiter launches in 2008. And NASA's mapped the moon before. Like Clementine (SDI/NASA).
Obligatory Heinlein reference "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress"
To paraphrase: When you run out of room, there's always the moon.
meh
The US could have gone to moon, we went to Iraq instead... enjoy your vacation.
Hope is the currency of fools
This is all well and good and I think China should be proud of their accomplishments in space. But the idea that the US is behind because we have concentrated on near earth orbit operations with the Shuttle and ISS programs is flawed at best. Remember that putting things like remote vehicles on the Moon is a far cry from what NASA and JPL have accomplished. We've landed PEOPLE on the moon, and plan to do that again before the next decade is out. We have put rovers on MARS - an order of magnitude more difficult than putting them on the moon. Our deep solar system probes have, by and large, produced spectacular results. The experience and capabilities that have been created by building the ISS have given NASA and our international partners a great foundation for further manned space exploration. Again, I'm not bashing China - I'm just trying to put what they are doing into perspective.
Brawndo: It's what plants crave!
A Chinese person would never say "down to the 'inch'" ... they would say "down to the 'millimeter'".
We should stay away from the moon. I don't even feel the need to elaborate on this.
sometimes, nothing.
It's interesting the difference in terminology between the summary and the actual article...
According to the summary they have "decided to" and "plan on", according to the article they "would like to" and "hope too". That's a fairly significant difference. It's also in line with articles that have previously appeared - they sound much more like the bosses of the space agency and lunar science programs stumping for funding and support than they do like accounts of real programs.
Actual hard evidence to date indicates no reason to believe the Chinese program will continue at other than it's current glacial pace. (Which is kind of an insult to glaciers as it implies glaciers are as immobile as mountains.)
You know, japan? The land of the smart asians? One of the questions in a game was to indicate on a map were T.A.T.U. came from (answer russia). The responses were shocking, not only did they get the country wrong but the location of the country as well. Offcourse this was the group Morning Musume, so we are talking teenage girls, not a group well known for their knowledgde of basic geography (MM, girls, teenage, a lethal mix)
But what exactly goes on in the mind of a person who has to ask which way is up about a world map? Not knowing were the equator is even roughly?
Think of a person you know that you would describe as having an average intelligence, now realise that HALF the people have an even lower intelligence. Scared yet?
Don't be, a lot of that group of idol teenage girls got the answer RIGHT. That just isn't funny so the interviewer quickly moves on to highlight the ones who got it very wrong indeed.
Same with the above clip, do you really think the editor gives a fair balanced view of the results of an afternoon taping? Hell, I BEEN a cameraman doing exactly those kind of street interviews and I seen myself how all the BORING but accurate answers simply get cut because they are not funny.
You can find people who can't point out the northpole on a globe ANYWHERE and any director worth his salt can easily make it appear that they are easy to find. Next time however REALLY watch those clips and try to notice how they either change location a lot OR the sun seems to move awfully fast during a 2-3 minute segment, hints the interviewing team had to spent a lot of time finding the true idiots.
That's still a lot of square inches: 58,842,036,065,894,390. Where are they going to store it all?
Sit, Ubuntu, sit. Good dog.
From TFA "A full moon is visible in this 2005 view above the Earth's horizon. China plans to survey all of the moon's surface before eventually bringing bits of the planet back to Earth."
/. and you never point out how Bush has taken YOUR rights away, or how you are sitting in Gitmo... it is always some vague crap about how our rights have been taken, we torture (by taking picts of terrorist in their underwear, show me someone with missing fingers and cigarette burns on them and I will agree but embarrassing someone is NOT torture) but you can not show me ONE instance of this actually happening... oh wait it think I hear a black helicopter.... put on the tin foil hat. STFU!
When did the moon become a planet...???
Bart Sibrel and others: If China does map the moon will it show the American flag still flying proudly? If so will he shut up and apologize for his mistakes... I will not hold my breath...
Mars: WTF does mapping the moon have to do with Mars? Lets try to stay on topic here.
Bush sucks the US suck.. Again WTF does that have to do with TFA? Go post at the dailykos or DNC I am sick of reading it on
Burn CDs, hand one out to everyone in the country, job done.
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
I think that if you look at their pace, it has been anything but. In fact, I think that they are trying hard to not show their hand on this. They have built a LOT of infrastructure that would indicate that they will soon be doing a large number of launches (BTW, cool towers design; concrete instead of iron). Right now, they are moving at the same pace as American space companies are. Spacex, Bigelow, and Scaled all started their adventure in the 90's. And when it comes to America's pace, it took a decade to get us to space and another decade to the moon. USSR had a very similar pace as well.
Finally, China is simply building up a dual use infrastructure (civilian and military). That is one of the main differences in the west's program. They have been kept separate.
No one company is going to do this. It will be a multi-company missions. I think that china COULD be the first, but I am guessing that by 2025, the west will send a mission to mars. In fact, I think that by 2015, spacex/bigelow/(armadillo|blue origins) will be on the moon
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Do not forget that India is launching a mission shortly which includes a couple of our instruments to be able to map into dark areas as well as underground.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Good luck getting pics from the dark side of the moon...Our bases will blow it up in a millisecond.
It's left blank because I have nothing to say to you punks!
Burn CDs, hand one out to everyone in the country, job done.
:-)
Nice!
But that only allows for around 15 bytes of information per square inch. Are you sure that's enough? You'd probably need 3 bytes for the elevation, 3 bytes for the color, and a few more for composition - and that's off the top of my head. There may be a lot more we don't know about. That's cutting it a little close, don't you think?
Sit, Ubuntu, sit. Good dog.
Chinese race is the worst of all the entire world!!!
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I can see it now, rover competition will heat up on the moon. The rovers will be armed with frickin laser beams in case another rover gets to close, or if a rover is close to the end of it's mission it will go into seek and destroy mode. Then the rovers will become self aware and we'll all be in trouble.
Microsoft, Apple, Google, Amazon what's the difference? All steal money from devs and control with walled gardens.
Guys, the leaders of "The West" look ahead maybe five, ten years max. The Chinese are thinking ahead 100 years.
... here's an interesting tidbit:
They plan on mining Helium-3 from the lunar soil, for use in fusion reactions.
Wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium-3
-(snip)-
It is believed that the Moon's surface has large amounts of helium-3 in the lunar regolith.[18] At the start of the 21st century several countries planned to explore the Moon and to use its resources. Helium-3 is expected to be one of those resources if a commercial fusion process is created. Yet to be determined is the exact quantity of helium-3 which the solar wind traps and deposits on the lunar surface. As of our current knowledge of lunar regolith, it is exceedingly scarce (ppb quantities mixed in with ppm quantities of He4), and may be beneath the point of economic recovery. However, processes to extract other materials from the lunar regolith could cover the majority of the energy expenditures in extraction; Helium-3 extraction might be piggybacked on these processes.
Cosmochemist and geochemist Ouyang Ziyuan from the Chinese Academy of Sciences who is now in charge of the Chinese Lunar Exploration Program has already stated on many occasions that one of the main goals of the program would be the mining of helium-3, from where "each year three space shuttle missions could bring enough fuel for all human beings across the world."[19]
In January 2006 the Russian space company RKK Energiya announced that it considers lunar helium-3 a potential economic resource to be mined by 2020.[20]
-(snip)-
Regarding funding for our own ailing space program, by the time the American sheeple wake-up and this actually becomes an issue that the politicians can use to run for re-election, it will be FAR too late.
My advice: learn to speak Mandarin. My wife and I are doing it already.
"All your base are belong to us."
China has flown into space twice in 4 years. They won't launch another manned mission until 2008. All with Soyuz technology they bought from the Russians.Indeed, China's program seems moribund.
If you want to take note of a vigorous non-US Japan lunar program, look at Japan. They are already is already beating China to the moon with the very advanced Selene mission. I think Japan will be Asia's space success story. Why so downbeat on NASA's moon plans? The ISS commitments are being kept. The shuttle assembly flights are damned impressive. Why should they fail in the lunar mission? The Ares space architecture seems right. Other nations have certainly proposed nothing better.
an ill wind that blows no good
they will probably combine that with armadillo or new shepard. Even though they are being suppose to take off from earth, they will really shine on the moon. In particular, if they can turn it into a means to lower or pickup a device, they would really win out. But yeah, I think that the 3 or 4 companies will be colonizing the poles within 8 years.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
This isn't about US vs. China, it's about He3 mining.
What the USA should really be doing is diverting some of its military trillions and making this into a global venture.
No sig today...
No matter how hard you look, there is no cheese on the moon.
I'm so tired of hearing about the "plans" everyone is making nowadays. It's like saying Jamaica announced today their second interstellar warp drive capable craft will be ready somewhere around 2256. Quit trying to scare me, it's not working. Sure it's possible, but how many people will communist China throw to the lions to achieve it? Hmm? They(communists) don't give a **** about anyone outside of the bigger cities and even then it's a "don't screw up or the goulag for you" mentality. In the end it won't work. It's the same thing at the Olympics. How many people have they basically gone through and destroyed just to have the "perfect" competitor? Thousands?
Basically they have little natural talent(I heard they had to copy another technology again... iPhone anyone? Heaven forbid they(communists) actually invent something.) and are trained as drones under the communist regime. Call me when they topple their government. Maybe the US and China can actually get something done together then.
Basically the headline could have also read "Communist China's Space Propaganda On The Rise Again".
In Soviet Russia no more Luna 16 museum exhibit for you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_16
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
"Basically they have little natural talent"
c hnology. The number of high-tech companies run by or with high level technology officers who are of Chinese descent is huge. Needless to say, if the Chinese are kept out/were kept out of this country, the industries that depend on talented individuals would collapse. Perhaps that is why Microsoft has built one of their largest (the largest?) research labs there: http://research.microsoft.com/aboutmsr/presskit/ba ckgrounders/asia_bg.aspx
Despite the fact this is a blatently racist comment, I think it should be obvious to anyone familiar with research in the U.S. that a great percentage is done by Chinese graduate students/professors. Just look at recent citations in bio-tech/physics/semiconductors/chemistry/nano-te
Fortunately I think most slashdotters understand this so I won't bother to elaborate further. (I remember similar comments made about the Japanese and Koreans before they started kicking our butts in consumer electronics, semiconductors, automobiles, etc.). I'm even curious to know how many Chinese slashdotters there are out there. (I'm not one).