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SCO Loses
An anonymous reader writes "The one summary judgement that puts a stick into SCO's spokes has just come down. The judge in the epic SCO case has ruled that SCO doesn't own the Unix copyrights. With that one decision, a whole bunch of other decisions will fall like dominoes. As PJ says, 'That's Aaaaall, Folks! ... All right, all you Doubting Thomases. I double dog dare you to complain about the US court system now. I told you if you would just be patient, I had confidence in the system's ability to sort this out in the end. But we must say thank you to Novell and especially to its legal team for the incredible work they have done. I know it's not technically over and there will be more to slog through, but they won what matters most, and it's been a plum pleasin' pleasure watching you work. The entire FOSS community thanks you for your skill and all the hard work and thanks go to Novell for being willing to see this through."
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
When this is not an occasion for celebration - I don't know. What about an SCO party? You can use facebook, upcoming.org and all the web 2.0 platforms to plan a party near you. Lots of people will be eager to join. Try it now.
The reason SCO lost is that SCO was wrong. SCO has a pretty good legal team too and that is why they were able to stay in the game this long, even though they had a very weak case with no real evidence presented. Well, that and some very tolerant judges.
Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see. - Mark Twain
Since SCO doesn't own UNIX there is still some fun to come as IBM tears them to pieces. What would be really interesting is if IBM could somehow drag MS into this mess but we all know that isn't likely.
Still, a good day!
"I have the attention span of a strobe lit goldfish, please get to the point quickly!"
Regardless Novel has redistributed the Linux kernel and the GNU tools so many times that the GPL pretty much means it is now a non-issue. I guess they could have some fun with Microsoft over it but it's not as if it will have any implications for stuff that matters ; )
Or can we?
Do we FOSS people still hate Novell because of their deal with Microsoft or love them for standing up for this?
So how do you think that applies to RedHat's suit against SCO?
Will RedHat gain anything but satisfaction?
Ignore this signature. By order.
SCOX - The SCO Group, Inc. (Public, NASDAQ:SCOX) +0.06 (4.00%) Aug 10 - Close After Hours: 1.55 -0.01 (-0.48%) Why didn't the stock plunge towards zero after this ruling?
If the g'vt kept the data on you that google does you'd better believe you'd be calling it "doing evil"
Will the source code of SCOX's UnixWare be released to the public because of the GPL violation/copyrights owning violation?
Ultimately, that will probably be up to Novell. The judge has ruled that Novell, not SCO, still owns all the copyrights they held before they got involved with SCO. There may be parts that are still owned by other parties prior to Novell.
My guess is, no, it won't be released, because ownership is too unclear and it's too expensive to make clear (all we know is, it's not SCO). The GPL people can sue SCO for damages, I expect, and have their pick of anything left over after Novell and IBM get through picking the bones. And prevent SCO (or anybody else) from distributing any more copies in violation of the GPL. Of course, by that point, the principals of SCO may be residing in a federal facility, from which they are not allowed to distribute anything.
It is also my understanding that Sun's payment to SCO was to have 'clear title' to the code in Solaris. I'm guessing that the intent was more so Sun wouldn't have to cut a check to SCO for every copy of Solaris shipped rather than opening the code.
Could those companies not argue that SCO engaged in fraud by claiming copyright and selling licenses for something they did not technically own? If I claimed that I owned the copyright to Windows and told people they had to give me $100 per copy of windows they used or I would sue them, and people complied, I can't imagine them NOT getting their money back. Now the SCO Unix situation is probably not nearly as clearcut as that, but if indeed the ruling is that SCO does not own the copyright on materials they sold licenses for then it seems pretty open and shut to me.
The laws of probability forbid it!
Yeah, that comment caught my eye, too. There are two remedies for conversion: damages or return of property. Novell asked for damages and a constructive trust. The judge ruled that Novell must prove how much of the deals involved SVRX (subject to the 95% going to Novell) and how much involved UnixWare (not subject). That is the matter of fact that needs to be decided by a jury; that SCO Group owes Novell money is not a fact in dispute, only how much is owed. Thus he could not grant a constructive trust.
But does this open the door to allowing Novell discovery of MS and Sun records should they demand return of the property? I'm still reading the ruling, too, but the judge seemed disgusted that a case with almost no factual basis was brought before the court and took SO much of its time. That SCO Group was unable to bring disputable facts allowed him to gut the case as a matter of law.
The deal with Microsoft was pure genius. With Microsoft backing out of every part of the deal, they'll eventually be able to sue for breach of contract among other things.
I'm not at all happy about this. Think about it. It has now been ruled that the Unix copyrights are owned by NOVELL. You know, the company that made a deal with the devil last fall? You know ... Novell, aka the Linux division of Microsoft?
Before the ball drops at the end of 2007, we will see Novell (aka Microsoft) start to sue other Linux distributors. Red Hat and Canonical will be hobbled by lawsuits, Novell will become the dominant player, and Novell's corporate masters in Redmond will finally have Linux under their control.
Do you like the sound of that?
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The reason this case took so long was that Kimball allowed scox to game the system. Kimball could have put a stop to it years ago, but decided not to. Instead Kimball decided to burden ibm with about $100 million worth of obviously bogus discovery, and delay the cases for years.
Direct quotes from Judge Kimball - February 2005:
"Viewed against the backdrop of SCO's plethora of public statements concerning IBM's and others' infringement of SCO's purported copyrights to the Unix software, it is astonishing that SCO has not offered any competent evidence to create a disputed fact regarding whether IBM has infringed SCO's alleged copyrights through IBM's Linux activities," Kimball wrote.
"Further, SCO, in its briefing, chose to cavalierly ignore IBM's claims that SCO could not create a disputed fact regarding whether it even owned the relevant copyrights," the judge wrote. This refers to the matter that Novell Inc. is claiming that it, and not SCO, actually owns Unix's intellectual property."
"Notwithstanding SCO's puzzling denial in its briefing that it has not alleged a claim against IBM for copyright"
Yet, Kimball decided to dismiss IBM's request for a partial summary judgement, and instead allow scox's laughable discovery requests.
Scox discovery requests were laughable because scox wanted 20 years of AIX revisions. This makes absolutely no sense what-so-ever because scox was claiming that IBM put system V UNIX code into Linux.
Kimball even acknowledged the absurdity of scox's claims asking scox something like: "you have Linux source code, you have system V source code, what else do you think you need?"
But Kimball allowed scox's gaming anyway.
Google "Michael Anderer SCO" for more.
What a strange bird is the pelican, his beak can hold more than his belly can.
No, you're a moron. Microsoft bought one of the first SCO "Linux licenses" and may or may not have invested some money in the company. After all, it's run by a bunch of psycho nutballs, so why not bet a couple bucks that they might get lucky? But to suggest that this was funded by Microsoft is utter bullshit, and to suggest that Microsoft DEVELOPERS wanted SCO to win is a joke. Somewhere in the upper echelons of Microsoft there is probably an executive whose job it is to ask "okay, so ignoring all rules of etiquette, what are some of the ways we can beat this whole Linux thing?" But I can promise you, of the 75,000 employees at Microsoft, 74,900 of them just want to win by making a better OS... Disagree with us if you like, but that doesn't make us evil.
Yeah, system "worked" in the end. After someone was able to throw zillions of dolars, and thousands of manhours into fighting SCO.
95% of people who get sued don't have same abilities, so system doesn't work for them.
I know one of your former Microsoft colleagues (who was far from the bottom of the MS food chain and is a very clever programmer); he is finishing his Math PhD. I think he would agree that most MS employees were/are good people who wanted to produce a good product BUT ... I get the impression that there were LOTS of problems at MS, including really smart, stubborn people with really big egos.
I think VISTA is a wonderful product which will help speed the adoption of Linux throughout the world. I think MS should increase the level of DRM in each succeeding product.
SCO stopped being able to pay its lawyers around Halloween 2004.
More accurately, SCO made an agreement with Boies Schiller to cap the fees for this case at $31M, with some additional stock and 'cut of the winnings' language thrown in. Boies Schiller agreed to represent SCO all the way through appeals, but the general assumption is that they won't start any new cases for SCO unless SCO dumps some cash on the barrel-head.
So right now, Boies Schiller is looking at a family of cases where they're basically screwed.. they've lost the Novell slander-of-title case outright, and the best they can hope to do there is prove that the $30M technology license Microsoft bought wasn't entirely based on code Novell now officially owns. To the extent that Novell owns the code, Novell also owns 95% of the money, and money Novell owns won't pay SCO's legal fees. In the IBM case, they've been forced to limit their complaint to literal infringement of code that SCO owns -- and there's pathetically little of that which the judge will allow to be used as the basis of a complaint -- and now SCO doesn't even seem to own the code that IBM has allegedly infringed. To make matters worse, Novell has the explicit right to grant IBM permission to do anything it wants with the code, and Novell did exactly that at the outset of this whole long farce.
The whole family of cases as they stand right now are a train wreck for SCO and Boies Schiller, and the only way they could hope to win would be to go back and reformulate their bitch against IBM in a completely new way. But that's exactly what Boise Schiller isn't likely to do without getting a fresh mound of cash from SCO, and SCO doesn't have any cash to throw around right now. Right now, they're shitting bricks trying to find a way to keep Novell from taking away the $30M that's been propping them up since this whole thing started.
Meanwhile, SCO is still in the crosshairs of all the counterclaims Novell and IBM have filed, most of which Novell and IBM are likely to win, and win big. The damages from those will cost far more than SCO has ever been worth. The end result of that game will basically guarantee that any potential 'successor in interest' to SCO would rather strip naked, stick his feet in a hill of fire ants, and shove his arms into a tree-chipper than even think about trying to pick up the case where SCO left off.
Then we'll have to see whether Darl MacBride and the rest of the SCO management team can escape criminal charges, based on what they actually knew or should have known, what they said to the press and government agencies like the SEC, and whether this whole thing can be written off as the longest and most obnoxious pump-and-dump scheme in history.
So basically, this will all end when SCO's crops have been burned, their fields have been tilled with salt, and their flayed carcasses have been poisoned so thoroughly that even the buzzards won't dare to eat what's left.
Of course, that's only what I can come up with. They don't call IBM's lawyers The Nazgul for nothing.
More than just satisfaction: RedHat protected their own business, and faced a fraudulent litigator head-on. That kind of nerve to protect yourself and your customers is something software purchasers, like me, treasure in a vendor. They told the truth up front, they documented it, and held their own against the worst sort of lying weasel in court. It was very expensive: such lawyers are not cheap. Now they can focus their resources on more useful tasks.
Novell's success in the lawsuit against SCO buys them some credit in the open source community and respect from potential clients, such as me, that they badly need in the wake of their ill-managed decision to broker the weird patent protectons with Microsoft. They lost a huge, huge amount of support and credibility in the open source world. This will help them recoer some of it.
it's even more confusing because microsoft payed off SCO and Baystar... but also paid off Novell. So did Novell use Microsoft money to win the SCO case Microsoft paid to start???
head exploded!!
1) There is no doubt that MS funded SCO to sue IBM.
2) In addition to giving SCO money directly they arrainged baystar to give them money (basically MS fucked baystar by lying to them and telling them SCO had a case)
3) If any MS developers disagreed with any of this they never spoke up so it's safe to presume they were on board.
>But I can promise you, of the 75,000 employees at Microsoft, 74,900 of them just want to win by making a better OS... Disagree with us if you like, but that doesn't make us evil.
I just don't believe you. I never heard any of those 75,000 programmers at MS ever critisize their company about anything. It's obvious you all have are either in 100% agreement with what your company is doing just don't give a flying fuck how unethical and yes evil your company acts.
Basically that tells me you guys just don't have a conscience.
evil is as evil does
Why? Unix isn't actually worth anything, these days. Even at the height of SCO's FUD machine, they didn't make any real money from it. This just happened to be the easiest and most painless way to flatten their claims, which were already looking to lose on the merits in the IBM case.
Unix itself (commonly referred to as SysV), as an operating system, is dead. It has been replaced by AIX, Solaris, and to some extent Linux (although Linux has mostly created new markets rather than occupying the space where Unix used to live).
The most dangerous strategy is to jump a chasm in two leaps. - Benjamin Disraeli