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High School Students Forced To Declare A Major

i_like_spam writes "As reported in the NYTimes, high school freshmen at many high schools across the nation are now being forced to pick a major. Starting this Fall, 9th graders in Florida will have to choose to major from among a set of state-approved subjects, while some students in Mississippi will have to follow one of nine designated career paths. High school administrators hope that having students declare majors will lead to greater student interest in school until graduation. College administrators think otherwise: 'youngsters should instead concentrate on developing a broad range of critical thinking and communication skills,' says Debra Humphreys from the Association of American Colleges and Universities."

19 of 670 comments (clear)

  1. This is stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    To expect a child to choose a career at that age is ridiculous

    1. Re:This is stupid. by SimonGhent · · Score: 5, Funny

      Agreed.

      I'm 37 and haven't decided on a career yet... just waiting to see if these computer things catch on.

      --
      simon
    2. Re:This is stupid. by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you don't fund it properly, it just ain't going to work.

      Throwing more money at it isn't necessarily the fix needed. Some places with relatively high spending per child have the crappiest schools.

    3. Re:This is stupid. by Jafafa+Hots · · Score: 5, Interesting
      When I was 15 in the early 80s, a school guidance counselor was told to talk to me. Having been abandoned by my family, abused, molested, malnourished, etc... school was the least of my worries as I tried to survive and find food. Obviously my attendance suffered.

      The counselor (a woman) proceeded to tell me I had better decide right away what I was going to do with my life, what my career would be. "How do you expect to support a wife and family?" she asked pointedly.

      That just further reinforced my impression at the time that at best adults were clueless idiots, and at worst dangerous.

      --
      This space available.
    4. Re:This is stupid. by kimvette · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Money isn't the issue.

      Lowering the bar and worrying more about a child's "self esteem" rather than academics things things such as playing nanny to students AND wasting money on programs like sex education (sorry that is the job of the parents) AND sensitivity training are hurting academic performance. When teachers are expected to be nannies rather than teachers, do u rly expect students 2 xl @ math & science, & b able 2 sp34k in nything but aol sp35k? ZOMG LOL WTF!

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    5. Re:This is stupid. by walt-sjc · · Score: 5, Insightful

      High schools still do have basic career paths... You have a choice - AP and science courses that geared towards a white collar career, and shop / auto / etc. that geared you towards blue. One will get you prepared for college / business / etc. and the other won't. We need both types of people however. We need people who will physically build our homes, businesses, highways, etc. The infrastructure of our country. The bottom line is that there are many people who would rather sweat in 100 degree heat building a brick wall, pouring concrete, etc. than be a cubicle dweller.

      But back to the FA. Forcing kids to choose a major? Stupid. It should be an option that guides you into the most appropriate courses to get you where you want to go. Kids need high school to learn about careers and THEN make a decision. What does an eighth grader know about what a physician really does? Or a chemist? Or a physicist? Hell, do they have majors for "fireman?" What about the kids who just want to be a carpenter like their dad, and HIS dad, take over the company business?

      Most "educator's" are totally disconnected from reality. They surrounded themselves in school their entire lives, generally in a public servant type role. They think they know what's best for kids but really they have just overdosed on talks and reports from overpaid sociologists that pull theories out of their asses. This is why I refuse to send my kids to public school.

    6. Re:This is stupid. by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I wish that my school would have at least let others try other career paths.

      I went the AP/engineering/college bound path. My small rural highschool had a Vocational program for auto repair and an Ag path.

      I took AP Calculus my junior year. I had literally run out of classes to take, but I wasn't allowed to take any of those 'other' classes. I'm not a Mechanical Engineer that has no clue how to weld. Even my college guidance counselor told me that welding was 'a waste of time.' We have a huge disconnect between engineering and manufacturing and there's a pretty clear reason why. Force everyone to take 1 shop and 1 welding class then ask the engineer why his 1.00000000 mm tolerance is a bit strict.

      It's taken me 6+ years and lots of trial and error to learn how to fix my car. I started with oil changes and my biggest job to date was replacing the head on my car.

      It's problem enough that we pigeon hole kids in college. I'm an engineer. It's my 'only' marketable skill. C/C++, Matlab, VB, Simulink, Free body diagrams are great for bringing home money now. But they're not going to help me redo my kitchen or paint my house or fix my car. If I had to do college over again. I'd tell my counselor to shove it and take 5-6 years for a BS degree. I'd take one of those classes most engineers looked down on, like how to wire a house, how to run plumbing, etc.

      If only I went to a place where I could have learned all of this, at an early age, for free. Wait. I did.

    7. Re:This is stupid. by Smidge204 · · Score: 5, Informative

      I agree that simply throwing money at a problem is rarely a solution. But just to back up that "Some places with relatively high spending per child have the crappiest schools" idea with some data...

      http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/a rchives/education/010125.html

      Or, a few clicks from that page is the actual report (2005 data, released April 2007):

      http://ftp2.census.gov/govs/school/05f33pub.pdf

      Page 12 ranks each state spending per pupil per year for primary and secondary education. Top 10 spenders are, in order: New York, New Jersey, DC, Vermont, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Delaware, Arkansas, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island.

      From this page: http://www.psk12.com/rating/USthreeRsphp/STATE_US_ level_Middle_CountyID_0.html (2003 data - Middle Schools only!) the overall rankings for the above top-10 spenders are, in order of spending: New York (#21), New Jersey (#16), DC (#51 - bottom of the barrel, folks!), Vermont (#5), Connecticut (#10), Massachusetts (#1), Delaware (#29), Arkansas (#43), Pennsylvania (#28), Rhode Island (#37)

      Clearly there is no strong correlation between money spent and education quality. Here is a list of the top 10 states by education rank (again, middle schools only!) with their spending rank in parenthesis: Massachusetts (#5), Minnesota (#23), New Hampshire (#15), North Dakota (#25), Vermont (#4), Montana (#28), South Dakota (#41), Iowa (#30), Colorado (#31), Connecticut (#5)

      Interesting that South Dakota is apparently 7th in the nation for education quality and 41st in the nation for education spending... And DC is #3 in spending but dead last in results... By a huge margin, too! The difference between #50 and #15 (33 points) is more than two thirds the distance between #1 and #50 (45 points)! Smells like corruption to me.
      =Smidge=

    8. Re:This is stupid. by Caste11an · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Amen, brother.

      I majored in Physics in college, only to find that I was exceptionally good at explaining things in our campus planetarium and observatory. After two years of friends, family, and planetarium patrons telling me I should become a teacher, I took the plunge and added Secondary Education to my major.

      I met with my new adviser who told me, "You have a lot of ground to cover -- you've missed two years... I just don't know how you're going to make it up in time."

      Then I attended my first class. Every test -- EVERY test -- was based on the bold letter definitions in the text book. Hell, in one of my "advanced" classes (500-level (I had to get "special permission" to take it as an undergrad)) the professor handed out the final exam on the first day of class. She said, "Have this back to me by the end of the semester. It's really hard, so I figured I'd give you the whole time. Again, bold-letter definitions and requests to copy and paste -- err, transcribe -- huge segments of text from the textbook into the space provided.

      My most memorable experience was coming from a Stat Therm in the morning. The prof in that class said to us, "I realize nobody has the book yet, but the first 10 problems are due tomorrow. There's a copy of the book in the library, so not having the book is not an excuse." I went from that to my education class, wherein the prof said, "Here's a 90-page novella that I think is nice. Please read it by the end of the semester and write a paragraph on what you thought."

      I can't tell you how shocked I was when the hands went up and the litany of childish grunts from ALL of the other students began:

      • "Do we have to read the whole thing?"
      • "Is this for a grade?!"
      • "How many sentences have to be in this paragraph?"
      • "Does our name have to be on this?!"

      These are the people to whom we trust the education of our children.

      Ugh.

    9. Re:This is stupid. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      even basic reproduction facts such as whether a test-tube baby would have a soul. Last time I checked, the existence of the soul was not a fact, but a conjecture. Whether a test tube baby has one is dependent on your personal theology, not on facts.
      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  2. Mixed by MyLongNickName · · Score: 5, Insightful

    On one hand, I hate the idea of anything that "pigeon holes" students.

    On the other hand, I hate the concept that all students must be prepared for college. A lot of people just aren't cut out for it. Some are looking for blue collar careers, and would be better served by programs that prepare them for this vocation.

    Combine this with kids who are at risk of dropping out of school. I see a lot of this. Some areas have a higher than 50% drop out rates. If you can take these kids and show them that when they are done with high school, they will be ready for a job as an electrician, a plumber or a mechanic, they'd be more likely to stay in. Tell them that they need to have 4 semesters of English, two of history, and they will be required to take some arts classes, and their reward will be two years of post-secondary trade school, and then they might get a job... well, some back grounds just don't value the education enough.

    I see downsides to the "track" approach, but I see upsides as well.

    --
    See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
  3. Umm... by mercurium · · Score: 5, Insightful

    College students changes majors like they change their socks, what makes them think high school students can stick their guns?

    1. Re:Umm... by Hognoxious · · Score: 5, Funny

      College students changes majors like they change their socks
      You mean twice in four years?
      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  4. Counterproductive and damaging by znode · · Score: 5, Informative

    This is not only useless, but potentially damaging to the children's careers.

    As Paul Graham says,

    [blockquote]If I were back in high school and someone asked about my plans, I'd say that my first priority was to learn what the options were... there are other jobs you can't learn about, because no one is doing them yet. Most of the work I've done in the last ten years didn't exist when I was in high school... In such a world it's not a good idea to have fixed plans.[/blockquote]

  5. Re:With top down decisions like this by TheSciBoy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As I understand it, High School is part of what we in Sweden call "grundskolan", which is required here. It is illegal not to attend school up to this point. After that, everything is elective. To specialize so early reeks of desperation. Up until this point, kids are kids. They need to be told what to do and when to do it. Of course they need free time, but at this age school is for two things: learning basic "booksmart" skills to make it in life (math, reading, writing, how the government works) and human interaction. The human interaction part is recess and after school, during class they need to be told what to do and everyone needs the same stuff.

    After you've attained the minimum level (lvl 1, 10,000xp) where you're able to function in society, you can choose where you want to go in life: directly to work (McDonalds, cleaning, aso) or you can get a higher education in some area of your interest.

    Specializing earlier and earlier has become common these days. This appears when schools start competing for students. Generally I think this is a bad thing. Mostly because this means that you have to decide what you want to be/do when you really have no idea and really shouldn't be making life-altering decisions like this.

    Anyone who has chosen College (or University) programs based on "what will be in demand" when you're finished will have chosen wrong. The world changes so fast that choosing what you are going to work with in 5-10 years based on what is in demand now will almost invariably mean that things have changed and you will find yourself in tough competition. It is generally better just to choose what to do based on what you want to do and hope for the best. At least then you'll be competing with others in a field you love.

    --
    Badgers, we don't need no stinking badgers! - UHF
  6. Best. Troll. Ever. by aquatone282 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Nice job. That post took a lot of work.

    My favorite part:

    Really, it makes me so mad when people say "oh, he's doing a humanities degree, that's easy". I have to read *3* *books* *a* *week* on average. Not picture books either I assue you. It is a lot of work, but the upshot is improved grammer and spelling skills that are lacking in the technical. As for those that say "you will be working at mcdonalds" , I'm going on to so a PhD in socialolgy where I'll be line for tenure where I have a much more rewarding job then beeing a science freak or an engineer.

    Again, congratulations.

    --
    What?
    1. Re:Best. Troll. Ever. by xmarkd400x · · Score: 5, Funny

      He puts the LOL in socialolgy

  7. This is what we did in the UK at age 14... by spiney · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As a transplant from the UK to the US, with high school/college age kids, I think it's about time that we stopped mollycoddling and pandering to the kids here, and started getting them thinking that they cannot just drift through high school and college, they need a direction, which making a choice starts to prepare them for.

    When I was at school in the UK in the early 1980's, at age 14 we had to narrow our courses to about eight subjects in total (English, Maths and a couple of others mandatory, leaving quite a bit of choice) and we studied for national exams ("O" levels) at age 16. We then chose three or four subjects usually from the eight, to take to an advanced level ("A" level), leading to national exams at the age of 18. When it cam to university time, there was no such thing as this "undeclared major" rubbish that my son is doing at an American university starting this fall. Our university admission was into a particular course, based on prerequisite courses at "A" level at required grades. This allowed the universities to know the minimum level and rely on the expected knowledge of all the students in a given course, and there was no need for foundation years, or spending the first term or two catching everyone up. This is why we could have three year Bachelor's courses instead of the four year ones here in the US.

    Today's kids are not being properly prepared for the work environment. I've lost count of the number of confident, self assured, broadly educated US Bachelors or Masters graduates I have interviewed for jobs in electronics who don't understand Ohm's Law or basic op-amp theory after graduating from between four and six years of study. It's time to stop the madness, and start preparing the kids for the new world, where they are competing against low wage earning graduates based in India or China, and if you think the UK system was harsh in making people choose, you should see the focus and emphasis on academics and career preparation in Asia...

  8. Students Confused by options by chinard · · Score: 5, Funny

    Many accidently selected Pat Buchanan as their major.