James Hansen on the Warmest Year Brouhaha
Jamie writes "In response to earlier reports, Dr. James Hansen, top climate scientist with NASA, has issued a statement on the recent global warming data correction. He points out 'the effect on global temperature was of order one-thousandth of a degree, so the corrected and uncorrected curves are indistinguishable.' In a second email he shows maps of U.S. temperatures relative to the world in 1934 and 1998, explains why the error occurred (it was not, as reported, a 'Y2K bug') and, in response to errors by 'Fox, Washington Times, and their like,' attacks the 'deceit' of those who 'are not stupid [but] seek to create a brouhaha and muddy the waters in the climate change story.'"
The bigger issue is the cloak of secrecy around the data and the algorithms used to generate the outputs. I do not understand why all data wouldn't be publicly available. Is there one place to go to see the data used to make the dire predictions I hear all over the place? I generally accept global warming as a fact, but when I see the amount of contortions one person had to go through to figure out there was a problem in the first place, I start to get suspicious.
See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
Otherwise, why link to admitted liar David Brock, and his Soros-funded Media Matters?
Whenever somebody tells me that I must take immediate action, I reach for my wallet.
Don't piss off The Angry Economist
If the corrected US data doesn't indicate such a large statistical anomaly on a global basis, why are we blaming the US, US government, US Citizens for creating the massive global warming effect being reported? Sounds like we might be less of the cause then?
Fox and Co think that the world consist only of USA, news at 10.
They have looked solely at the USA graphs and completely ignored the world ones which are the ones that look really scary. They have also declared the problem with the USA data analysis to be a flaw in the data for the whole world.
Is anyone surprised? I am not...
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
http://www.sigsegv.cx/
Ok, so 1998 was still the warmest - but not by more than a tiny fraction of a degree over 1934, and separated by a decrease to 1800s-era temps.
The bigger story I see in TFA's graphs is: we're looking at an increase of less than 1 degree C per century.
What's the fuss?
Can we get a "-1 Wrong" moderation option?
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
I thought it muddied the waters plenty when he
- published incorrect data leading to incorect conclusions,
- refused to release his algorithm so it had to be reverse-engineered,
- and deliberately exaggerated the global warming threat to push his personal agenda (which he later admitted).
Release the data, all of it, openly. NOAA data is available, for a fee to download I think, and so should all of the other data. I don't mean "should" as in "legislated", I mean "should" as in "should" or, "it would be nice."
If all of the data were released in this fashion, in one central "trusted" place, one could assume that as more and more analysts take a gander - themes will appear and more and more of the graphs could be trusted.
At least most people have given up on saying it isn't happening at all - a lot of opponents have moved to saying it's a purely solar effect. Watching the oil industry they are fairly split too so they can't be blamed - it's governments stirring up the mess and whether they are right or wrong Lysenkoism is taking over in US science and wreaking havoc. I would hate to be a climate scientist caught in the middle having the choice of either potentially career ending ridicule or government funding.
I'm sure that the next hundred years will be much less "interesting" than the previous hundred years, which saw the violent deaths of 250,000,000 people.
Don't piss off The Angry Economist
because the total heat content of the of the earth, or "globe" if you will, and its atmosphere is expected to rise. likewise, you can talk about the increase in global longevity, even if not every country has a rising life expectancy.
The maps he shows are global. You didn't RTFA.
And you're illustrating exactly why he is outraged: The errors affected the US. The effect on the data for the global temperatures was so small as to be dwarfed by the overall margin of error for the data, but the media completely ignored that, and ignored that it changes nothing with respects to long term trends and overall global warming.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well
Although I love your Church references, the scientists did admit their mistake. They're not blaming the news organizations for reporting their error, they're blaming them for distorting their error. Understand the difference? Some news outlets pretended like this changed the whole "the 9 hottest years on record happened in the last decade" fact, when it did not. Prior to the change 1934 was the second hottest year in the US on record, and after the change it was the hottest year. Prior to the change several of the hottest years in the US on record were during the dust bowl, and after the change this is still true. The changes had no impact on which years were the hottest on a global scale, so the "9 hottest years" fact is still true. Do you understand how the right-wing media that you evidently get your talking points from distorted the truth now?
Ben Hocking
Need a professional organizer?
Aren't you cute. The population has grown and at some point resources simply won't stretch far enough for all of us.
What exactly do you think is going to happen then? We'll all sit down, sing Kumbaya, and work out a peaceable solution, with the rich folk voluntarily slashing their standard of living so we can all subsist?
I think it would be pretty hard to say that unless we make some serious changes in the way we do things, 250m violent deaths will be the "good old days". Assuming we don't completely destroy ourselves while fighting over water, energy, and food.
I hope you're right, but I don't see the basis for your optimism.
You're advocating "security through obscurity" for scientific data?
Really?
Because you think the downside of allowing the data to be easily available is worse that making sure it's accurate through peer review?
And that makes sense to you?
What kind of reasoning must one engage in to believe the idea that widespread peer review is not desirable because some nutters will misuse the data? THEY DO THAT ANYWAY.
Meanwhile, situations like this occur because the data is not easily available for review.
I simply don't understand how anything you said makes sense, or is in any way insightful.
I only go to buffets for the unlimited soft serve.
Seems like a sloppy guy. Time to move on to more careful scientists, even if they are coming up with similar results. Thats what happens when you become too political.
Dr. Hansen gets it right on. His 2nd email: http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/realdeal.16aug20074. pdf is full of facts but most climate change deniers are highly skilled at ignoring those pesky facts.
I think that how humanity handles this issue will be one of the greatest measures of our species in our entire civilization's existence so far. I just hope we don't embarrass ourselves by bickering about this until it's too late.
Ben Hocking
Need a professional organizer?
"When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The goal posts are always moving. We can NEVER get a fixed set of predictions to hit or miss to prove or disprove the warming and/or human cause.
You're complaining because predictions improve? Sheesh. There's no pleasing you.
The central predictions for temperature change have remained largely the same, within the error bars, for 10-20 years. The predictions Hansen made back in 1988 have been borne out, if you pick the most accurate emissions scenario. A lot of the long term uncertainty is not in the climatology at all, but in forecasts of world economic growth. The climate predictions ARE testable and have been tested. And the evidence in favor of anthropogenic global warming has only increased.
The most-recent version of this is that we are NOW told there will not be any real heating until 2009 (AFTER the next US presidential election...so democrats can wave headlines around with doomsday predictions and not worry about being proven wrong before the election. hmmmmmmm)
That's not a different "version"; until now, nobody has tried to do a short term forecast with global climate models at all! Before now, the answer for the next two or three years would be "hard to say; we can only predict on decadal scales".
And spare me the conspiracy theories. This new prediction has nothing to do with long term climate policy, and wasn't even made by U.S. researchers.
2. "Warmest year ever", "Coldest year ever", "Warmest year on record", etc. Since modern weather measuring equipment has only existed for a brief flicker of time in the geologic scale, these phrases are just plain silly.
Scientists don't speak of "warmest" or "coldest" year ever. "Warmest year on record" is, however, meaningful. Geologic scale is not terribly relevant; whether it was hotter 100 million years ago has little to do with the current warming.
Even the thermometers used a few hundred years ago may not have been calibrated to todays standards,
That's right, and thermometers a few hundred years ago are not even used; the direct instrumental record only goes back about 150 years.
and while indirect things like sediments and tree rings may give clues they are even less-well calibrated.
They're less informative, but they're not useless, either. And even if we knew nothing at all about the pre-instrumental climate, that still wouldn't change the evidence that the modern warming is due to anthropogenic causes. Today is when we can most accurately measure the natural and human inputs into the climate system, after all.
If you cannot explain the past, your predictions for the future are just well-funded guesses. Until supporters can tell us what EXACTLY caused all previous warming and cooling patterns, they cannot honestly claim to understand the mechanisms well enough to properly predict the future.
That is an absurd requirement. As noted above, you don't have to have a perfect understanding of the past in order to have a good idea of what is happening now. No one will EVER tell you EXACTLY what happened at all times in the past, nor do they need to. The mechanisms operating on geologic time scales are only tangentially relevant to the present climate on centennial scales. Understanding paleoclimate events helps, but it's not a necessary requirement.
Supporters of the global warming claims want to force entire societies to change in dramatic ways. They want political changes and societal changes that will have sweeping effects. Many average citizens will lose jobs, and homes, and marriages. Industries will be halted/moved and allocation of resources will be shifted.
You are grossly exaggerating the impacts/costs of mitigation (and ignoring the impacts/costs of climate change).
We are told the US is the biggest contributor (the BIG SINNER) but as soon as problems are found with the US data, we are told that the US numbers have lit