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Most Laws Attempting Limits of Violent Videogames Fail
circletimessquare writes "Good news for common sense: the New York Times examines the track record of state laws attempting to put additional limits on violent videogames, and finds that the courts have struck almost all of them down as unconstitutional. Especially notable is this gem of a quote, from Judge Richard A. Posner: 'Violence has always been and remains a central interest of humankind and a recurrent, even obsessive theme of culture both high and low ... It engages the interest of children from an early age, as anyone familiar with the classic fairy tales collected by Grimm, Andersen, and Perrault are aware. To shield children right up to the age of 18 from exposure to violent descriptions and images would not only be quixotic, but deforming; it would leave them unequipped to cope with the world as we know it.'"
Looks like Judge Posner is thinking of the children.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
..... Is gonna be really pissed about this. Now we'll have a new round of him going apeshit over violence in video games. Sigh.
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
These laws are continually struck down, one by one, yet the state legislatures still propose them. (Helped sometimes by some overzealous individual advocates). Do the state legislatures not look at court rulings? or do they not care? In my dream world, there would be penalties for passing unconstitutional laws. Sadly, the people who make the laws have that power.
Rhymes that keep their secrets will unfold behind the clouds.There upon the rainbow is the answer to a neverending story
Now just to confirm that it's no more harmful for a teenager to see a nude human body or have a glass of red wine with parents at dinner time.
... "And while you're at it, spank your children and stop reading them politically correct fairy tales. Yes the gingerbread house is made from bad little boys and girls."
- Stories-Modern/dp/002542730X
http://www.amazon.com/Politically-Correct-Bedtime
"If still these truths be held to be
Self evident."
-Edna St. Vincent Millay
http://hallert.net/images/crime-victims_games.jpg
This is a graph that's been floating around that tracks violent crime rates and maps them against the release dates of various "watershed" violent video games. While correlation does not equal causation, it's certainly intriguing.
There is the possibility the lawmakers pushing these types of limits might try introducing a constitutional amendment if their desires are continually shot down by the courts.
Laws don't have to be struck down to fail.
Laws which ignore the reality that a given banned activity/item/passtime has widespread public popularity always fail.
What's really scary though is no government since the 30's has had the guts to stand up, admit they were wrong, and repeal such a law.
Prohibition failed.
Drug laws have failed.
anti-downloading laws have failed.
speeding and racing laws are and always have been in a continued state of failure.
Laws prohibiting X age group from obtaining Y product are retrograde failures because they tempt younger people to products as 'restricted' in the same way declaring something unhackable tempts hackers.
another suitable headline for this story would be "Duh"
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
'Violence has always been and remains a central interest of humankind and a recurrent, even obsessive theme of culture both high and low ... It engages the interest of children from an early age, as anyone familiar with the classic fairy tales collected by Grimm, Andersen, and Perrault are aware. To shield children right up to the age of 18 from exposure to violent descriptions and images would not only be quixotic, but deforming; it would leave them unequipped to cope with the world as we know it.
This has got to be the most insightful and intelligent thing I've ever heard a person of political or judiciary status say.
"You will pay for your lack of vision..." - Emperor Palpatine to Ray Charles
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I'm sorry, but I don't see how these laws are unconstitutional. A child is a parents' responsibility. What games a child plays is up to the parents, period! Because I am a responsible parent, I'm not worried about my child playing violent video games because I know she won't. I won't let her. She is my responsibility. Am I depriving my child of her Constitutional rights? No! I'm being a responsible parent. There is no Constitutional right to bad parenting!
Unfortunately, not all parents are responsible. Some parents give their child birthday money or allowance or whatever and let them buy whatever they want. This child that plays Postal2 who thinks that whacking people with a shovel is OK, is not going to beat himself up. He's going to go after my child! Now I can't stop this kid from playing Postal2, and I wouldn't if I could, but I would like to at least know that his parents are aware of what he is playing. I like the idea that the parents have to go to the store with their kid and see what game they are purchasing. I would hope that they would ask their kid, "Johnny? Why do I have to show ID for you to have this game?" If the parent still wants to buy it, great! That's their choice. They are mature enough to make it. A 10-yr old child is not!
Of course, these laws do not prevent any adult from purchasing these games. And when I say violent video games, I'm not talking about Mortal Kombat. I don't care about impossible, cartoon violence. No kid is going to do the Sub-Zero kill move on my daughter! I'm talking about Postal2 and games that are violent for the purpose of being violent. Games where the point is violence over game play.
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
which is a flat-out perfect description of Jack Thompson:
$7.95/mo, 200 GB disk, 2TBxfer, MySQL, PHP, RoR.
No joke, I really wish I could give that guy a hug. Just a simple, ecstatic, no-sexual-intent bear hug. America needs more like him - he seems like the rare justice who might even make sense of the new-fangled internet tube thing.
Though, since he's a justice and it is politics, I guess I'd settle for buying him a beer. Or two beers. Really nice beers, too, maybe one of those eastern European deals with the chocolate and nutmeg in it. Whatever tickled his fancy.
Well fuck Jesus and God, bring on the tranny porn and show images of Jesus getting shit on. Amen brother, and pass the Bible so I can urinate on it!
Now, it's quite possible I'm going to get modded down, but that's fine, as this is a private site. But neither you, the Reverend Billy Graham or even God Almighty have any right in a free country that honors liberty telling me what I can say, or what movies I can watch or what video games I play. You are perfectly free to not partake of it, and keep it out of the hands of your children, but what you aren't free to do is to shove your standards on other people.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Hurrah! I've been saying for years that the obsession with nerf-coating the world was a Bad Thing. The best way for the masses to learn due caution is for a few to serve as a negative example, not to round every corner and pad every edge.
This is true psychologically, too. Sex and violence is part of the human creature. Pretending it's not "for the children", the children who will eventually inherit this mess, does a disservice to us all for exactly the reason stated - they will be unequipped when it's their turn. Nevermind the bozos making these stupid laws - find me one among them who didn't flip through a playboy and play cops and robbers as a child him/herself. These things are desirable, perhaps even required, for a well-balanced adult to form. We all grew up watching GIJoe shoot at everybody and Sam Malone hit on everything in a skirt. We had monkeybars on asphalt, BB guns, steel sliding boards with exposed bolts and pinch points. We never had those ridiculous bike helmets and elbow pads. There were scuffed elbows and scraped knees, maybe even a broken arm or two, but seriously, how many of the kids you went to school with were maimed or killed on the playground?
So go, kids, run and play! Climb trees. Jump from the swingsets. Play dodgeball. Play doctor. Explore the world around you, it belongs to you, too, after all.
Off with their helmets! Lawn darts for everybody! Hip, Hip, Hurrah!
"Hey, the third matrix movie would have been good except for the plot,story, and acting." --AC
the price of freedom is that it must always be guarded. it is not true that you will fight some decisive battle, win some decisive argument, or enact some decisive law (as you suggest above: "In my dream world, there would be penalties for passing unconstitutional laws") and then presto changeo, forever more you are free without ever having to think of any threats to it
no. all around you, every day, is someone, somwhere, in some form or another, thinking it is a good idea to limit your freedoms. in fact, the worst sort of enemy are those who do this, thinking they are actually helping you (as many of the well-meaning but deluded legislators intend)
so when a little ray of light, like this story of universal failure on the front of limiting violent videogames breaks, then you should celebrate. don't be despondent
you'll need to celebrate. because tomorrow is another day, and tomorrow, some well-meaning but stupid legislator will cry "think of the children!" yet again. and again. and again
and you must go to battle yet again to protect your freedom. it's never easy. it's never over
and that's another important point: the people who pass these laws are not the minions of emperor palpatine, establishing the beachhead for the rise of fascism across the globe. they are in fact mostly well-meaning people, but are just deluded on the facts. you have to know your enemy to defeat him, and to give in to paranoid fantasies about evil operators of the illuminati finessing and manipulating the system in service of some dark agenda: no, you've been watching to many bad hollywood movies. don't attribute to evil that which is obviously the work of stupidity. and even worse, WELL MEANING stupidity. their heart is in the right place, but their mind is it. when we cry "won't somebody think of the children!" it's a simpson's punchline, and we all laugh. but for some people, "won't somebody think of the children!" is an earnest heartfelt honest to goodness cry of desperation and call to arms to fight to protect children
from what? well i'm not going to argue their stupidity here. that's not my point here. my point here is to simply demonstrate to you that the fight is not easy, and it's not a fight against evil. it's a fight against stupidity. and the fight never ends, and the fight is never easy
know the REAL nature of your enemy, roll up your sleeves, and get to work. it's the price you pay for your freedom: constant vigilance. the fight is never easy, the fight is never over
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
OK Some of those I'll give you but Little Red Riding Hood?! I don't recall hearing "My grandma, what a huge wang you have!" That didn't make my cut! I mean pretty much anything with a Prince Charming or some chick kissing a frog, sure, but I think you're really reaching on this one.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
I wonder if video games based on William Shakespeare's works would be too violent.....Would make a great headline to get an AO rating ;)
;)
Just have to make sure that Romeo and/or Juliet die before they...well we can't go there can we
Meanwhile back to adding the Big Bad Wolf mod to my architectural drafting program...at least that one is still safe.
Romans used to dig going to the arena and watching the bloodsports, often involving the killing of animals. Now we can sit here and pass judgement on them (as the Christians did when they finally managed to seize power in the crumbling state), but the fact is that Rome flourished as a society even with this (and other nasties like slavery and leaving unwanted infants to die by exposure).
People have long had a fixation with death, and with the means by which it can be accomplished. It's hardly new, nor is entertainment by which people could enjoy the spectacle of murder and torture.
The key of these bills is that they assert a link between certain types of violent entertainment and actual violent behavior. They have yet to put forward a concrete study that actually demonstrates that link. One would imagine that if it were true, cultures like Rome and the Aztecs would have been filled with depraved murderers, and that is simply not bourne out by the evidence.
Again, I'm not defending violence, nor am I defending bloodlusty cultures like Rome, but if you're going to try to pass these kinds of laws, they should be based on sound research, and not simply on politicians trying to pacify or ingratiate themselves with the likes of Jack Thompson.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
AS far as physical violence goes, you have to quit believing what you see in video games and movies and on TV is even plausible. Martial training is a long and painful process that ultimately only gives you an edge, not infallible physical superiority. Its funny how it is really easy and really hard at the same time to severely injure someone. Hitting someone in the face is pretty hard when they're moving.
Now, if were talking about a general overall simulator to make you more aggressive and violent, I think any high school environment can do that.
Romans used to dig going to the arena and watching the bloodsports, often involving the killing of animals. Now we can sit here and pass judgement on them [...], but the fact is that Rome flourished as a society even with this [...].
Rome flourished as an imperial power because of this. By dehumanising their enemies, making the the torture of their prisoners into a form of communal entertainment, they made the population complicit in the brutal regime that they imposed on conquered lands. In the amphitheatres, they prepared their boys for the life of rape and slaughter that awaited them as men in Rome's legions. The soil of Rome was fertilised with the blood of millions.
So all hail the violent media; the wonder of violent video games and blood-soaked DVDs. Without them, we wouldn't be as good at bringing peace and democracy to Afghanistan and Iraq.
HAL.
Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
so what if it feels different? Kids normally commit violent acts with their own hands.
Boxing your siblings in the ears is violence too, does playing GTA make you more likely to beat your brother with a stick? because I watched so many of my friends do just that back when the Colecovision was the best video game technology. You could argue it was because WWF was big back then, but I suspect if you go back before WWF you'd hear the same old stories of violence between kids. (just a guess)
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
In 2006, Judge Richard Posner of the United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit and professor at the University of Chicago Law School, wrote a book called "Not a Suicide Pact: The Constitution in a Time of National Emergency." [1] In the book, Posner argues that facing terrorism and the threat of WMDs, the scope of constitutional rights must be adjusted in a pragmatic but rational manner. Using cost-benefit analysis to balance the harm new security measures inflict on personal liberty against the increased security those measures provide, Posner comes down, in most but not quite all respects, on the side of increased government power. Posner argues that terrorist activity is sui generis--it is neither "war" nor "crime"--and it demands a tailored response, one that gives terror suspects fewer constitutional rights than persons suspected of ordinary criminal activity.
I recently watched 'The Hills Have Eyes', the remake that was realized a few years ago. It was one of the more violent movies that I have seen in the last couple months, and reading this article made me ask myself why should movie studios be able to release a movie depicting a person ripping away flesh from another dead person, and eating it, yet punching a prostitute in the face until she bleeds is a major taboo. I grew up on Friday the 13th movies, tons of zombie movies showing the walking dead devouring the living, sometimes very graphically, but when you throw a little sex (hello, Cinemax is as close to soft-core porn as you can get without pay-per-view) or violence in a game, call the National Guard, our children are at risk! I know there are people who believe that doing something has more of an effect than watching something, and I think to a certain extent that is true, but healthy-minded teenagers (I agree that younger kids shouldn't be exposed to that kind of thing) should have no trouble separating what is real with what is fiction.
My six-year-old daughter asked me recently about what the police do to bad guys that they catch, and what to the bad guys do to get in trouble. Knowing that it wouldn't show her anything too bad, I turned on 'Cops' and let her watch an episode of that. I told her that it seems that is probably more of what police officers have to deal with, but of course there are days where the bad people are "a lot badder". She seemed to understand, and immediately asked if that's why they carry guns. She then made a comment about some of the games that she has seen me play, and asked me if I have ever shot anyone. I replied no, I've never even pointed a gun at anyone. She replied again with "I've seen you shoot people in the games that you play, but I know that's not real, so its a lot different than doing it for real."
As bad as it sounds, she even cheered me one while watching me play Resident Evil 4 on my Wii. (Silent kid, I didn't hear her sneak up behind me) and she also was able to discern what is real and what is not.
People are saying that games with excessive violence shouldn't be able to be sold to minors. As much as I hate censorship and govermental control, I think there is some merit to this. I wouldn't want my daughter when she is 11 or something to be able to go buy some movie like "The Hills Have Eyes" without me knowing, and I'd feel the same way about video games. Until I know for sure that she can handle things, I will continue to prescreen what she watches and what she plays, but as a parent I feel it is MY choice, not the government's.
And they said zombies weren't real!