Slashdot Mirror
Drug Testing Entire Cities at Once
Ellis D. Tripp writes "Researchers have developed a technique for determining what illicit drugs people might be consuming in a given area, by testing a sample from the local sewage treatment plant. As little as a teaspoonful of untreated wastewater can reveal drug use patterns in a given community. Obviously, any drugs found can't be tied to any specific user, but how much longer until the drug warriors want to deploy automatic sampling units farther upstream of the sewage treatment plant?" From the article: "one fairly affluent community scored low for illicit drugs except for cocaine. Cocaine and ecstasy tended to peak on weekends and drop on weekdays, she said, while methamphetamine and prescription drugs were steady throughout the week."
I wonder, if they start doing more and more extensive tests, could they eventually determine the household in which the drugs come from? What's preventing them from testing the sewer water directly out of a house, instead of a waste plant.
Will there be a need for sewer search warrants in the future? Hmm...
Meth heads don't do less drugs during the work week, I wonder if that has something to do with them not having jobs. I am surprised with heroin supposedly being so addictive that it's levels drop off during the week. Am I wrong in assuming that the weekday to weekend usage ratio should be closely tied to a drugs addictiveness?
thats right, I rarely use capitals. deal with it. but don't mistake my laziness for stupidity
... if any of the, uh, extruded chemicals are bound to DNA, say from cells shed from the drug user's intestinal wall. Yeah, it's not practical (yet) to DNA-scan the entire populace, but I can foresee this being used to catch probation/parole violations (given that discontinuing drug use is often a condition of remaining loose on parole), where the perp's DNA is already on file.
Take it one step further: insurance companies who don't want druggie-risks in their system, who might start requiring DNA on file as a condition of being insured.
This has disturbing implications re privacy -- not now, but quite possibly a decade or two from now, especially given the direction the world is headed.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
I've got to say this is a very interesting idea. I've never heard anything like this.
That said, I'd like to ask a question of /.ers. Many here are obviously against anything they see as an encroachment of their privacy. I agree with them to varying degrees. But in this case, where would you draw the line and why? Is there really a privacy concern at testing from the waste water from a whole city or region? But what if you are testing at the main sewer pipe that serves 20k people? How about 10k? What about a neighborhood of 500?
As much as the "well they are breaking the law/what do you have to hide" appeals to me, I wouldn't support testing individual houses (or probably anything under a large chunk, say 10k).
Why 10k? It is quite anonymous, yet would be small enough that it might provide some good relative data as to where certain drugs are more of a problem (especially in bigger cities, like 1 million+).
Now once your waste water leaves your house and enters the pipes, it's no longer your property, right? Once garbage is placed out on the street (or in the garbage truck) it is no longer your property and the police can search it without a warrant right? This is the same thing isn't it? If not, when would waste water cease to be "yours"; considering that it is quickly mixed (permanently) with other waste water and unrecoverable.
Just wondering how you guys would draw the line.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
I have a couple of friends with a prescription for meth-amphetamines for their ADD, as they are basically immune to all the other drugs that have been tried on them. My girlfriend has a prescription for THC as it is the only mood elevator that can control her bipolar condition. I have overactive production of an enzyme CYP2D6, meaning my medicine cabinet would make a heroin addict drool.
We all have constant levels in our systems, stable jobs, and interact well in society. Just because someone needs to take these drugs do not mean that we cannot hold a job, or that we are scabs on society... And just because (aside from the THC, which is not addictive) our meds are addictive, does not mean our usage varies, because we take our daily dose as covered by our medical insurance.
3 degrees of separation from Vladimir Putin
In 1994 I had about 40 million drug test results on my 486-50 woo hoo! (I was writing a Microsoft Access program for the guy.)
;-)
:-)
Anyway, I did a GROUP BY sic code and drug, descending frequency. The highest was construction workers, pot and cocaine. The second highest was school employees, alcohol. This doesn't mean who does what -- this means who gets busted for what in the tests, very different. Everything else was non-clustered.
BTW, the guy had the hottest girls for reception and collecting specimens. I think he hired girls who didn't pass the tests to work for him. Fun girls
Pillheads
"one fairly affluent community scored low for illicit drugs except for cocaine. Cocaine and ecstasy tended to peak on weekends and drop on weekdays, she said, while methamphetamine and prescription drugs were steady throughout the week."
Coming from someone who has met more than my fair share of meth users, there is no such thing as a recreational meth user. Coke, weed, ecstacy, even heroine can be used recreationally by some (and not by others).
But noone uses meth recreationally. It's an all or nothing drug.
No, actually. They look for the levels of drug 'remnants' in your urine, not the actual substance.
and how will they ever test for jenkem, the drug that is itself made from sewage?
Many here are obviously against anything they see as an encroachment of their privacy. I agree with them to varying degrees. But in this case, where would you draw the line and why?
I'd draw the line at any government study because it's a waste of money. Due to false positives, medical drug use and a lack of control population, I doubt this kind of study is worth more than the subject mater. The money is better spent on ordinary police work, where real crimes are investigated and people who are really a nuisance are locked up. If you can get a warrent, you can test my piss. If I'm intoxicated, you should lock me up before I hurt someone or myself. The best way to fight the negative consequences of drug abuse and addiction is to lock up the abusers when they misbehave. Everything else is a fishing expedition that's going to harass people who never bothered anyone at best and can be used to jail political opposition at worst. What? There won't be any enforcement over positive results? Then what are you wasting my money on?
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
No, not the legislation, the literal sewage. I'd love to see the the drug usage pattern changes after a power shift between parties. ...or for that matter when Ted Kennedy goes on vacation. If they could display the results in real time on the CSPAN feed, that would be perfect.
I've submitted a few other stories in the past dealing with the War on (some) Drugs, and they never seem to make it.
/., there always seemed to be a big blind spot as far as the drug war is concerned.
For a site populated by as many privacy advocates and libertarian types as
Remember "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters"? Help make it a reality again! http://soylentnews.org
a police forensic chemist who told me that they regularly laughed at some of the amphetamine labs they busted - in some cases, 60%-80% of their yield was going down the drain
Goes to show you how ridiculously profitable this stuff is under our current legal system.
No wonder people kill each other over it.
Not that I'm a fan of legalizing meth, mind you.
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
Why don't you ask my dad? He's been a labtech at the Riverside Wastewater Treatment Plant for over 20 years now. He told me last year that they made him start checking for metabolic byproducts of illegal drugs (I forget who he mails the results back to, either DHS or the White House, rather odd I thought).
Well I guess if you're not going to, I'll ask him later tonight.
I may make you feel, but I can't make you think.
You probably can identify areas with labs based on the methods they used to survey drug usage, but I don't think you're going to be led to the lab-containing areas by noting drug usage patterns in neighborhoods. I would think the best bet would be to do a random survey of sewer systems, to chance upon lab-containing areas.
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
-- Pablo Picasso
reduce money going into the black market. Thereby taking power away from the criminal organisations.
See my art -> http://herbevore.deviantart.com
Prison industrial complex.
The detriments are real and proven you say? Okay, please give me a link to a scientifically conducted study that shows negative effects (mental, physical or social) in excess of those of alcohol, for LSD or Ecstasy. I'm sure the information is quite easy to find for things like Crack Cocaine or Heroin, but really, Ecstasy is "fairly safe" (compared to alcohol) and LSD is "very safe" (compared to pretty much any other "drug" (legal or illegal)).
"Getting High" (which by the way isn't really a suitable term for taking psychedelics since the effect is very different to "uppers", which is where the term comes from) may not be a human right, but I think it's fair to say that something being illegal just because it's fun is not a good thing.
I am a regular, but light LSD user. I take it about half as often as I drink alcohol in quantities sufficient to notice the effects. That equates to approximately 10 times a year. I actually find the effects of it improve my ability to do my job (once the "trip" is over that is) due to the way it allows me to be more creative by thinking of things in new ways that I might not have otherwise considered - important for the software design phase of any projects I'm working on.
My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
how is the truth flamebait?
"Our" government (actually, Sony's and BP's government) has brainwashed the masses, many of whom have slashdot mod points. And you are right.
There's a bar in town that has extremely cheap draft beer. It's always full of crackheads. Unlike most slashdotters, I've been talking with them (and I'm working on a novel based on some of their tales).
Every single one of them has been in jail. Jail didn't deter a single ONE of them. Losing a home or pet or even having the child welfare people take their kids away doesn't even deter most of them (having the kids taken away makes them worse). If you smoke cigarettes, you have a small idea of how hard it is for these unfortunates to quit.
I have a friend who works at a drug treatment center, and after talking with both her and the folks at this bar who have gone through treatment for various addictions, it's clear that those tasked with treating American addicts are completely clueless.
Most of these people suffer from various mental illnesses. You can't treat an addiction unless you treat its cause, and these addicts are not getting mental health treatment. My friend who works at the treatment facility says they do, but the crackheads I talk to who have gone through treatment say they don't spend more than five minutes with a mental health professional while in treatment!
Our barbaric, third world method of paying for health care is a very large part of the problem, coupled with the stigma of seeing a mental health professional at all. Most of the people I met in the "cheap beer bar" would likely not have even started abusing these drugs if their underlying depression, bipolar disorder, and other problems had been treated before they turned to illicit drugs. But in America, you don't get mental health care unless you have a good job (and you're not likely to hold a good job if you're crazy) with excellent, better than average insurance, or are extremely wealthy.
We need to legalize the users so they are out in the open, fund universal health care like the civilized world does, and include quality drug treatment and mental health care in that health care plan. Forcing someone into a substandard drug treatment plan after incarceration doesn't work; the addict has to WANT to quit.
On the bright side of the drug abuse problem, at least I'm getting laid now! (see #3) What, you think I go to that bar just for the cheap beer?
-mcgrew
Made up huh? Guess those 3 or 4 guys who tried to get me to try whatever it was they were selling were not pushers then?
Drug dealers use a much better method then what you think. They are your 'buddies'. They 'hook you up cheap'. Then slowly as you become more dependent on it they jack you around, price wise and personaly. I *KNOW* this. I have dealt with it for almost 2 years.
Most drugs mellow people out. It is not the person who is high that you have to worry about. It is the person who has no money to get it that you have to worry about. These people will do *ANYTHING* to get the drug. A fiending drug addict will do anything to get it, even kill. I have seen adicts sell the very cloths they are wearing for rock.
Perhaps you yourself are a drug dealer. Let me tell you this they are *NOTHING* but parasites who want to do nothing but sit around and feel entitled to your money. I can not tell you the number of times I heard 'but you still have some cash'. Money is just as much of a drug as the drug they sell. Ive seen drugs turn little old ladies into dealers. One dude I knew was threatened with physical assault when he asked her to come down on price. "I will send my boys after you". How much was she paying? 0 dollars. How much was he paying? 3K a month. She got the drugs from the goverment for free. This was a 60 year old woman. Greed is just as much of a drug as the drug she pushed. And she did push it. "know anyone who needs more pills?"
Maybe in 'your' sphere of 'friends' you dont see this but it exists. And if you are a dealer trust me on this *ALL* of your 'friends' think you are *SCUM*. Is that what you want in life?
Ecstasy: kills lots of people by means of deregulating body temp. and/or making them overdose on water.
Overdosing on Ecstasy can certainly kill in the method you describe, and it's happened to a "friend of a friend" of mine (no-one I know personally). So yes, it has dangers, but so do many other substances we legally consume. If it was legal, the dangers would be well known. I don't think anyone has ever died from a single E (or even two) that contains a normal amount of the active ingredients (mostly MDMA, but not entirely in most samples).
LSD safe?? Some people never come back from the trip. Some others keep having recurring flashes and trips, even years after taking it.
I've heard this a lot, but have NEVER been given a real world example or study to prove it. My (admittedly anecdotal, but fairly extensive) experience shows nothing related to these claims, as does all of the (also anecdotal, but in vast quantities) evidence presented to me by other users both online and in personal discussions.
I will readily admit it is possible that it effects some people differently to others and that it's possible that with the right brain chemistry/make up (such as with HPPD (Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder)) it could cause these kinds of effects in a very small sampling of the population (just as sugar is a dangerous substance (although in a completely different way) to people with diabetes if not controlled properly), but I've yet to hear of any hard evidence of it affecting people that do not have any such problem. It's a tricky one to really figure out, because if someone does experience flashbacks after having taken LSD, who's to say they didn't already have HPPD (or something similar) and it just never presented itself prior to their LSD experience? Also, many people experience the occasional "glitch in existence" (such as seeing things out of the corner of their eye, thinking they heard a knock at the door when no-one was there etc) in their daily lives (especially when very tired) and simply dismiss it, whereas those who have taken LSD and are worried about it may be more likely to notice it more often and attribute it as a kind of "flashback". My most vivid example of this is when I drove for 18 hours straight once after a long night (not on any drugs, except nicotine) and very little sleep - I arrived at my parents house, went to use the bathroom and noticed the floor tiles appeared slightly "wavy" - I do NOT attribute this to past LSD use, but instead extreme tiredness combined with having been moving at a rapid speed for a long time which alters perception anyway. The floor tiles stopped being "wavy" after about 10 seconds and then I was fine (although still dead tired!). Had anyone not familiar with LSD had an experience like this, they'd almost certainly put it down to the same factors I did, but just because I've taken LSD, people are quick to jump on the story when I tell it and say it's a flashback. And if those same people had taken LSD once, and were worried about flashbacks, would almost certainly call it one when they experienced it.
Please note that I'm not saying "LSD is harmless", I'm saying it's "very safe compared to pretty much any other drug" - I think it's safe to say that if use of it was harmful in even a noticeable percentage of cases, then prolonged or heavy use should be a much higher percentage, and yet we see many famous people (such as Lennon and McCartney of the Beatles) who have been heavy LSD users in the past with no obvious problems from it at all. Other examples of heavy drug users that also used LSD being somewhat "messed up" these days (eg Ozzy Osbourne), are ruled out as a fair example due to the high amount of other drugs they also took (so we can not fairly determine if it was the LSD or other drugs (or something else entirely) that caused the problem).
If anyone reading this is the kind of person who takes "notability" as significant, there are certainly notable people
My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan