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iPhone Freed From AT&T, Twice

Posted by kdawson on from the everything-but-the-visual-voicemail dept.

A very large number of readers sent in stories about one or the other of the two new claims to have unlocked the iPhone for use on other GSM carriers. A New Jersey teenager, George Hotz, posted instructions for unlocking the iPhone using a soldering gun and a lot of patience. This is from coverage in a local NJ paper: "If someone handed him an iPhone new out of the box, he could modify it in 'about an hour,' he said. A person following his directions might take 'a good 12 hours,' the teen estimated." Hotz has put up a YouTube video substantiating his claim, and is conducting an eBay auction for one of his two hacked phones. The other hack is by a commercial outfit called iPhoneSIMfree.com, whose claim Engadget has verified. The company will be selling licenses to the hack, minimum quantity 500, at a price not yet announced. These hacks are much bigger news for those outside America. Expect to see an industry spring up to meet European (and Asian?) demand for freed iPhones.

76 of 357 comments (clear)

  1. Calling all Lawyers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I smell Lawsuits.

    1. Re:Calling all Lawyers by ackthpt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I smell Lawsuits.

      Lawyers my eye, this is probably covered by the DMCA reverse engineering, same as for unlocking XBoxes and so forth. Simply purchasing an iPhone does not convey complete ownership and the right to dismantle protections under such law. Worse, offering up the modified iPhone on eBay, which I expect to see cancelled, will not simply bring grief from AT&T, but Apple as well. (It's currently up to $15K, which I doubt will be honoured.) It's best if someone does unlock the iPhone for other GSM services to keep their yap shut and use it as they see fit. Sadly, ego must be fed, but at what price?

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    2. Re:Calling all Lawyers by InvalidError · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I went to check about 30 minutes after your post and it is now up to a rather stupidly high $50k... but there are about a dozen other supposedly unlocked phones on eBay for ~$1k now.

    3. Re:Calling all Lawyers by GPL+Apostate · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The mistake this person made, if it is true that he unlocked the Iphone, is that he should have dissimenated the information as broadly as possible, as rapidly as possible. Now, he's tried to 'profit' from it personally, and there's probably a fat Apple lawyer sitting on his stomach while another fat Apple lawyer ties on the gag.

      He could have gained tremendous geek cred and become another DVD Jon. Instead, now he's just another victim of the Apple legal department. (there are many, stretching back years, to when Apple was running Apple II clones out of business, and wiping out any GUI competitors to Windows on the PeeCee)

      --
      Microsoft says legacy (serial/parallel) ports are bad. They don't obfuscate the hardware enough.
    4. Re:Calling all Lawyers by Garabito · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Lawyers my eye, this is probably covered by the DMCA reverse engineering, same as for unlocking XBoxes and so forth. The DMCA prevents the circunvention of DRM technologies for copyright infringing purposes. Whose copyrights (or other kind of IP for that matter) are infringed if you unlock an iPhone you purchased from Apple? It isn't been subsidized in any way from AT&T, nor have you any contractual relationship with them.

      Simply purchasing an iPhone does not convey complete ownership and the right to dismantle protections under such law Gosh. You people are so brainwashed...

    5. Re:Calling all Lawyers by fangorious · · Score: 3, Informative

      The Library of Congress ruled that handsets are not covered by the DMCA.

    6. Re:Calling all Lawyers by Koiu+Lpoi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Note that he said "under such law" and not "the law is always right". An understanding of the law does not imply agreement.

    7. Re:Calling all Lawyers by vertinox · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Lawyers my eye, this is probably covered by the DMCA reverse engineering, same as for unlocking XBoxes and so forth.

      I had to look this up but Cell Phones have been ruled to be one of the exceptions to the the DMCA:

      http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061124-8280 .html
      http://www.darknet.org.uk/2007/04/legal-to-unlock- cell-phones-since-november-2006/

      Cell Phone providers do not have to provide you with the ability to unlock your phones nor provide you with the information, but they cannot legally sue their customers for unlocking them according to Federal rules.

      --
      "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
      -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
  2. More Like.... by phobos13013 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Expect to see endless lawsuits spring up about this. But really, is there ground to stand on against this?

    --
    ...and it should be known by now
    1. Re:More Like.... by monktus · · Score: 5, Interesting

      There's nothing to stop you unlocking any other phone (in Europe anyway), so I doubt the iPhone will be any different. If anything, if Apple tries to prevent it, I could see the European Commission stepping in.

      --
      Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals... except the weasel."
    2. Re:More Like.... by owlnation · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Unlocking a phone isn't illegal. (nor should it be)

      Apple doesn't lose out of this, so I can't see them rushing to redesign the hardware or software.

      The only loser it AT&T. And one can easily argue that if the provided a good connection product, at a competitive price and backed it up with quality service they'd have nothing to worry about.

      But, of course, the only reason for all service providers all over the globe to use lock-ins is because the last thing any phone company offers is any of the above.

      So, yeah, let's hear those world's smallest violins.

    3. Re:More Like.... by chuckymonkey · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I really hope they don't go after that kid. We need more smart people like him around.

      --
      "Some books contain the machinery required to create and sustain universes."-Tycho
    4. Re:More Like.... by GuldKalle · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Except (AFAIK) you need to have certified you equipment for radio transmission. And since you've physically hacked your phone, my guess is the Apple certification doesn't count anymore.

      --
      What?
    5. Re:More Like.... by jcgf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      We need more smart people like him around.

      Very true, but I fear the government wants less smart people around.

    6. Re:More Like.... by OmegaBlac · · Score: 4, Informative

      Apple doesn't lose out of this, so I can't see them rushing to redesign the hardware or software.
      Doesn't Apple get a share of revenue from each AT&T contract? I would expect them to respond to this asap.
      http://www.mobile-tech-today.com/story.xhtml?story _title=Analyst__Apple_Gets_Healthy_Share_of_AT_T_C ontracts&story_id=102008J3T13I
      http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/07/19/anal yst_weighs_in_on_apples_rev_share_arrangement_with _att.html
    7. Re:More Like.... by jbarr · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Doesn't Apple get a share of revenue from each AT&T contract? I would expect them to respond to this asap.

      Sure, they'll probably respond (and I'd wager that they'll wait until AFTER the phone sells on eBay--you know, to ensure some legal technicality ensues due to the sale) but really, if their business model relies (at least partially) on the revenue of another company, then shame on them.
      --
      My mom always said, "Jim, you're 1 in a million." Given the current population, there are 7000 of me. God help us all!
    8. Re:More Like.... by Shenkerian · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Why do you say that? It's a perfectly legitimate business model to develop a platform that draws revenue from third-party licenses. The video game industry is an obvious example.

      --
      You tell me how "whilst" differs from "while," and I'll stop calling you a pretentious jackass.
    9. Re:More Like.... by norminator · · Score: 3, Interesting

      But do they have more to gain from selling the hardware, or from their cut of the revenue? Estimates of profits on the hardware are anywhere from 23% ($138) to 55% ($329) of the cost of the phones (for the $599 iPhone, not sure about the $499 one). According to your links, Apple gets either $3 per contract ($72 over 2 years) or $11 ($264 over 2 years), depending on whether the AT&T customer is new to AT&T or not.

      Depending on the balance of new customers to old (and 4GB iPhones to 8GB iPhones), Apple may just make more money by letting people buy the phone and use it with any provider, especially considering that the legal fees to try to enforce the locked phone policy would probably wipe out any difference in revenue from lost AT&T customers. That's provided that AT&T doesn't make too much of a stink with Apple about it. In any case, I'm sure the number of people who actually will end up unlocking their phones will be relatively small, so even AT&T doesn't have much to worry about, and Apple can enjoy those few extra sales that they'll get from it.

    10. Re:More Like.... by DECS · · Score: 4, Funny

      Perhaps you can draw up a Five Year Plan for the video game industry and we can implement it after the Revolution, comrade.

      I'll work on rounding up the proletariat to design games for the People, so we can all play without anyone being trampled under these bourgeois capitalists who build electronics for money and orchestrate evil plots to make their products more attractive through proprietary software.

      --
      ZDNet's George Ou Exposed as Ignorant Microsoft Shill (Zoon!)
      The assault on reason isn't just a political phenomenon. Microsoft has long been developing its own cast of apologists who have eked out full time careers in the field of sputtering out ignorant, unfounded claims with such insistence and volume that the undecided simply have no alternative but to line up and applaud their seemingly convincing rhetoric. Among them is George Ou, who unsurprisingly blogs for CNET's ZDNet branded website.

      Apple iPhone vs the FIC Neo1973 OpenMoko Linux Smartphone
      Frequently compared to Apple's new smartphone, the OpenMoko FIC Neo1973 is described as the free and open software community's alternative to Apple's officially closed iPhone platform. Here's a look at what it really is and how it compares to the iPhone.

    11. Re:More Like.... by toadlife · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ...relies on ignorance and short sightedness of the unwashed masses... Thats the business plan of just about every large producer of consumer goods.
      --
      I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
    12. Re:More Like.... by Yaztromo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Since I'm in Canada I'm SOL without either Apple offering the iPhone here, or using a cracked version.

      Except that you're still pretty much SOL, as you're stuck with having to sign up with Rogers and pay them an arm and a leg to use the iPhone data services (outside of a suitable WiFi area, at least).

      Or you could choose to sign up with Fido (which is owned by Rogers) but instead charges you a leg and an arm for the same services. And a few other appendages if you want to access Roger's "expanded network".

      iPhone or not, you're still stuck with our crappy, over-expensive Canadian cell service.

      Yaz.

    13. Re:More Like.... by superpulpsicle · · Score: 2, Funny

      Apple salesperson: How are you today? Would you like an iPhone?

      Customer: Sure.

      Apple salesperson: We'll get you signed up with AT&T.

      Customer: No.

      Apple salesperson: Is the only service that would work.

      Customer: Saids who?

      Apple salesperson: Steve Jobs.

      Customer: My 13 year old neighbor said his iPhone works with hotdog phone service.

      Apple salesperson: The warranty may be nulled.

      Customer: Saids who?

      Apple salesperson: Steve Jobs.

    14. Re:More Like.... by jcgf · · Score: 2, Informative

      The truth ain't flamebait assholes.

    15. Re:More Like.... by EdelFactor19 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      because lord knows the iPhone is so important to business that not only do you need one, you need your company to buy it for you and pay for it.

      So basically what you are complaining about is that they won't help circumvent tax laws so you can basically get the phone for free cheap schmuck..

      Here's a better idea figure out how you are going to explain to your tax auditor how the iPhone is a warranted business expense... I suppose next you are going to have "your" company buy you a ferrari too and claim that as a business expense because you needed a car... unless you've already done that.

      Honestly you own a business, if you want the iPhone so badly just pay for it for yourself

      --
      "Jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny" ~Frank Zappa
      EdelFactor
    16. Re:More Like.... by UncleTogie · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You call going on national TV with all the details and a big shit-eating grin plastered on his iFace, smart? "Hey, Mom!! Look at me!! I just pissed off two major north american companies and screwed the warranty on that new phone you bought me!!!"

      No, I call it really smart. He did his homework, found the DMCA provision/exemption that allowed him to do EXACTLY what he did, and announced it.... and as neither "pissing off companies" nor "screwing the warranty" is illegal in the US, he just assured himself a future job.

      --
      Don't tell me to get a life. I'm a gamer; I have LOTS of lives!
    17. Re:More Like.... by ahoehn · · Score: 4, Funny

      Grammar Nazi says, "Fewer! Anything that can be counted is Fewer! Less is for things that can't be counted, like water. Less water. Fewer smart people."

      Thank you Grammar Nazi.

      --
      Mod my comments down. It'll be fun.
    18. Re:More Like.... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think there's another way that Apple loses in this.

      Despite the exuberance of the dedicated fans, Apple needs to sell to average consumers if they're going to really succeed. It wasn't all the Mac fans buying iPods that made it so successful, it was the millions of regular, normal people who were drawn to a well-designed, innovative product and paying full price for it.

      Retail is tricky though, because you have to keep giving customers what they want if you're going to stay on top. One reason Apple is still a small fraction of the personal computer market is not just the price, and now that you can run windows on them, it's not the compatibility with software. It's because a huge number of potential customers who would jump to run OSX want to be able to do it on their own sweet hardware. Most of us who deal with digital products as objects instead of a defining "way of life" expect to be able to buy a product "our way" and not be limited by the will of the vendor. There was a time when if you wanted to buy a Jaguar, you would go to some "car boutique" and have some snotty salesman tell you that you could either take the colors they offered or stuff it. There were no such thing as "options". If you squawked about the fact that you needed a complete tuneup every 1000 miles, you were told that "maybe a Jag isn't for you". Eventually, the Jaguar brand went in the tank because they just weren't giving customers what they want and their attitude led to horrible quality control. Now, you go to a Jag dealership and they'll give you choices. They started making the cars better, more reliable, because that's what people want.

      Now Apple's got a lot of company when it comes to not giving consumers what they really want. In fact, it's all the rage now in certain industries, like telecom. "Screw the consumer," they say. "Where are they gonna go"?

      But the consumer is more powerful than we've been led to believe. Eventually, we'll get what we want from Apple or their stock won't continue to stay so overvalued. Or, virtualization will get so flexible that there will be usable hacks for running OSX on our own hardware. Then, you'll see Apple offering "OSX Your Way" like it was some brilliant brainstorm.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    19. Re:More Like.... by trytoguess · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They don't want socially savvy people. Those are the folks that can manipulate people to do their biddings. A computer geek? They'll just build/fix shit for those who have above average social skills. He's most welcome in any government. Yes I'm perpetuating the stereotype geeks are antisocial, just noting book smarts doesn't necessarily mean scared government.

    20. Re:More Like.... by Planesdragon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The truth ain't flamebait assholes. Sorry, that's not the truth.

      The United States Federal Government lives and dies by smart people. It's the smart people in the government that keep the planes flying, the nuclear weapons from blowing up in our faces, the law making halfway descent sense, and who translate the will of the elected charismatics into something mostly practical.

      What the government doesn't want is smart rebels. Something entirely different from the larger subset of "smart people."
    21. Re:More Like.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I am a parent (and sometimes instructor) at the school in question, and know *both* posters.

      George did graduate, but did not attend graduation ceremony. Or was asked not to.....

      Watson *is* a student at BA, and is also a sharp cat, and they *do* know each other.

      And BA has more collective brains than a very large (though not complete) subset of
      the Slashdot crowd put together. Top minds. We have freshmen that can compete against
      our PhD teachers (yes, our school has about 70% faculty with PhD).

      So unlike many of the total losers that post here on Slashdot, that talk and talk
      and complain, and dream narrowly of some level of excellence but accomplish
      NIL, our kids are very top flight performers that will go on to real technical
      and other world-class work.

      But of course, this is probably a Foreign Notion to most whining, complaining,
      wannabe tech types here on Slashdot.

      Go, George, Go!

      And Watson, get your act together and put those brains to real work!

  3. Not just in lots of 500. by pjcreath · · Score: 2, Informative
    From the summary:

    The company will be selling licenses to the hack, minimum quantity 500, at a price not yet announced.
    iPhoneSimFree will be selling to end-users as well. From their front page:

    Individual per unit licenses will be available starting next week
  4. Implications by imstanny · · Score: 4, Insightful

    AT&T might have a basis for a lawsuit, since it has a contract with Apple for exclusivity. For users with modified iPhones, I speculate the only negative externality will be a voided warranty.

    1. Re:Implications by adam613 · · Score: 4, Informative

      AT&T most likely has a basis for a lawsuit, but that basis has nothing to do with the Apple-exclusivity contract, since people who hack the phone aren't parties to that contract. The lawsuit would more likely be based on violation of license terms prohibiting the defeat of whatever protection mechanisms are keeping the iPhone locked. And I have no idea whether this would hold up in Europe, where this hack is actually useful.

  5. Why do all this... by downix · · Score: 4, Interesting

    When there are good projects like the Neo that are on their way?

    --
    Karma Whoring for Fun and Profit.
    1. Re:Why do all this... by sokoban · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Because there are good projects like the iPhone already here.

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 is the magic number.
    2. Re:Why do all this... by *weasel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because the Neo is a project and lots of people just want a product?

      --
      // "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
    3. Re:Why do all this... by xgr3gx · · Score: 2

      Indeed...2 words for you. 1) Neo1978 2)OpenMoko
      I think the first production run of the neo and openmoko is due out in October/November.
      I'm getting ready...it's gonna be schweet!

      --
      Shameless plug alert: Game server control panel
    4. Re:Why do all this... by legirons · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "Because there are good projects like the iPhone already here."

      STFU - iPhone represents the most proprietary item you can obtain, with a hardware supplier who's not letting anyone but them write software, a software supplier who's famous for not running on any hardware other than that which they created (software supplier and hardware supplier being the same company, for anyone interested in vendor lock-in), and doing an exclusive deal with a monopoly telephone provider, just to put the monopilistic cherry on the proprietary icing.

      How the fuck can you compare *that* with OpenMoko, a completely Free phone with a Free firmware, Free Operating System, Free applications, and community of Free Software guys prepared to spend $450 each just to debug the hardware for the benefit of humanity, so that for the first time ever, you can buy a phone that does whatever you want

    5. Re:Why do all this... by Chandon+Seldon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The Neo is neat and all, but you don't even have to be that open to do better than the iPhone.

      The iPhone is explicitly designed to create vendor lock-in with AT&T. If you want a fully functional smartphone that is unlocked by default, you can get something like a Nokia Communicator.

      In fact, there are great stacks of phones (all generally unavailable from carriers in the US) that are fully functional smart phones that run on industry-standard Symbian (some even on not-fully-open Linux; hell, even Windows Mobile is better than an iPhone) and have such amazing features as being unlocked and supporting 3rd party apps by default.

      Here are some more phones to compare the iPhone to:

      --
      -- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
    6. Re:Why do all this... by Chris+Pimlott · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And "how the FUCK" can you fail to notice that currently it is not suitable for users*their exact words)?

      Yes, I am all for OpenMoko and Free Software, I hope they do a great job. But it is absolutely ridiculous for you ignore the fact that for the average non-technical user, a polished, working product that exists now has a real practical value over something that is still in "pre-alpha" (again, their words) development.

  6. Do you smell that? by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 3, Funny

    Tt's the Digital Millennium Copyright Act and phew, is it stinkin' up the place!

    --
    My blog
    1. Re:Do you smell that? by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Cell phones are not covered under the DMCA. Neither were ink cartridges, but try telling that to Epson.
      --
      My blog
    2. Re:Do you smell that? by DrinkDr.Pepper · · Score: 3, Informative

      I don't know about Epson, but Lexmark didn't get away with it.

      --
      0xfeedface
  7. Yeah, but... by Mikachu · · Score: 2, Insightful

    but what are you going to do now that you just bought a 2-year contract with AT&T that was required with the purchase of your iPhone?

    1. Re:Yeah, but... by k_187 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Given that activation of that contract doesn't occur at the time of sale, but upon activation later. Not much.

      --
      11 was a racehorse
      12 was 12
      1111 Race
      12112
  8. Meh by El+Lobo · · Score: 5, Funny

    Bah, It's not like he made it's battery replaceable.

    --
    It's time to realise that Abble's products are the biggest abomination these days. Just say NO to the dumb iAbble way!!
  9. Limited in its usefulness.... by tgatliff · · Score: 3, Informative

    Its great to know that they have figured out the JTag interface, but I question how useful any of this is. Meaning, even if you can make/take calls on all the networks, the visual voicemail and SMS would still be non functioning due to software needed on the AT&T network. The SMS probably can be easily fixed by using a different application, but the visual voicemail would definitely be more difficult to get around.

    1. Re:Limited in its usefulness.... by tgatliff · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I would not think that "patching" their visual voicemail app to be that difficult. I do not know how it stores its values, but I suspect that if you spent a couple of hours one could easily figure out its structure, you could probably just put an app that talks to a secondary app on the Asterisk server and pushes the data into the application. I dont have an iPhone, though, so it wont be me doing the work.

      Also, in my opinion, anyone who honestly believes that a 17 yr "figured out" the iPhone JTag interface is nieve. I admit that someone that young is ideal for releasing the data because it is very unlikely that AT&T will go after a kid...

    2. Re:Limited in its usefulness.... by dlim · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you don't mind getting a new phone number, you could use a free service like GrandCentral. It gives you a single phone number that routes calls to your phones based on the caller and your rules, and lets you access all of your voicemail visually from the web. The website uses a flash plugin, but there's a mobile version. I don't have an iPhone, so I can't confirm if it works on mobile Safari.

      I'm sure it requires more effort than the built in solution, but it doesn't care who your phone company is.

  10. Current cell phone DMCA exemption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    The DMCA currently has an explicit exemption surrounding cellular phones locked to a specific provider (at least until November 2009). For more, see Ars Technica or Freedom To Tinker.

    There may be other legal avenues they can pursue, but DMCA appears to be out of the running.

  11. Apple and AT&T won't care by llZENll · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Apple and AT&T have undoubtably already discussed what they would do if this happened, as it undoubtably would, Apple will probably have to pay a fine to AT&T as per contract, or attempt to fix the issue. Most likely though neither side will care much as the majority of users will simply switch to AT&T rather than trying to install an unlocking utility, as this is Apple's whole mantra and reason people buy Apple products, they would much rather pay for convienence and an easy to use device than having to hack, adjust, and tweak it.

    1. Re:Apple and AT&T won't care by infestedsenses · · Score: 2, Informative

      From the engadget article mentioned in the summary:

      The unlock process took only a couple of minutes. From our end it was totally painless.

      Remember it's a simple software patch. That doesn't sound like much inconvenience. Put a nice, simple UI on it and there's nothing left preventing the "simple folk" from "hacking" their iPhones.

      Actually, from what I understand, AT&T themselves did a terrible job at activating iPhones during the launch. Still no problems selling, apparently.

      --
      parasight.de
  12. Functionality by martinelli · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I wonder how the functionality of the iPhone is affected - visual voicemail, uploading video, etc. Does anyone know if these are AT&T specific functions?

  13. Still... by prxp · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You still have to go through the activation process. There are tons of methods to bypass it though. Those thinking it's just to unlock the iPhone and get worry free should be aware. If you have a non-ATT iPhone, You'll still need to re-activate it after every software update from Apple. That's because iTunes checks your phone for consistency and hacked phones don't pass this test. iTunes will demand a full restoration of the hacked iPhone that creates the need for re-activation. It's not that difficult to crack the activation process, but if you are not tech savvy you may get into trouble. After every software update, Apple may change things in iPhone's OS which includes the activation process. So all activation hacks may stop working overnight. Of course the iPhone hack community will eventually modify the hacks so they adapt to the changes, but keeping track of all of that might be hard for the technological challenged.

  14. You would think...... by budword · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You would think any company with a goal of making money by out competing it's competitors in the market would take this moment to jump in the air and yell, "Holy bat shit Bat Man, we have a hell of hit on our hands. We've hit a home run ! People are willing to spend 12 hours moding our gear to get it the way they want it. I bet they'll be willing to spend a ton of money on our stuff. This is fantastic. Lets give them what they want ! We are going to be rich !" I don't think that's what they are going to do though, I think they are going to sue some people. Sorta lets you know where they are coming from doesn't it ? They want to compete by locking you in. Sorta like some other large company I can't remember the name of just now.

    1. Re:You would think...... by budword · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The clue would be that they chose to enter into an exclusive deal with a single carrier in the first place. When you find a clue yourself let me know.

  15. Licensing a hack? by djcatnip · · Score: 4, Interesting

    how the hell do you license a hack? That's like selling someone the way to snap their fingers.

    --
    I make these: http://beatseqr.com
    1. Re:Licensing a hack? by Nikker · · Score: 4, Funny

      Well I guess the guy found a bunch of people who don't know how to snap their fingers ;)

      --
      A loop, by its nature, continues. If that didn't make sense, start reading this sentence again.
  16. Creating the hack may be fine, but... by moracity · · Score: 2, Insightful

    they'll never get away with selling it.

  17. Re:Thinks a lot of himself.. by everphilski · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Well, seeing as the autographed phone has 23 bids and is going for in excess of 3,000, I guess I'd find your statement a little odd.

  18. don't care by Lord+Ender · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Personally, I don't even care about the iPhone until it has GPS. As much as I hate the unresponsive and convoluted interface interface, the clumsy buttons, and the general ugliness of my iPaq, having GPS-enabled google maps in my pocket is now an absolutely mandatory requirement for me to even consider another mobile device.

    --
    A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
  19. Will eBay pull the auction? by Rob+T+Firefly · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This seems to be the phone equivalent of a modchipped game console, which eBay has explicitly banned from their site. Given the insane amount of attention this is getting and will continue to get, is it likely that they'll simply pull the auction, possibly after receiving a nastygram from AT&T and/or Apple?

    --
    Slashdot Burying Stories About Slashdot Media Owned
  20. Hack licenses? by CheeseTroll · · Score: 3, Interesting

    They're selling *licenses* to the hack? And will they send the BSA after someone if they suspect they're under-licensed?

    --
    A post a day keeps productivity at bay.
  21. Not Illegal by Dusty00 · · Score: 2, Informative

    This is actually explicitly legal. In an attempt to defend their lock-in business model the phone company previously tried to prohibit flashing their firmware under the DMCA. They later decided the only purpose to of this was to support a business model and hence they added it to the DMCA exception list.

    DMCA on cell phones

  22. CNBC Coverage by DaveAtFraud · · Score: 3, Informative

    The kid got an interview on CNBC. Not quite fifteen minutes of fame but at least a couple. He also managed to get in a plug for "information wants to be free" and to note that what he did is explicitly legal.

    Cheers,
    Dave

    --
    They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty.
    Ben
  23. Re:OpenMoko by norminator · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It`s cheaper by about 100$, with probarly the same features(ofc in the iPhone the cost of AT&T monopoly is not included) I'm pretty interested in the OpenMoko project myself, but let's be realistic here.

    1) Noone's going to know about it but Slashdot nerds. It may sell alright and be moderately succesful, but nothing like the iPhone.
    2) The Phase 2 version of the phone (the one intended for mass market) will cost $450 for the base model, or $600 for the Advanced (developer's) version. That makes the base model $50 cheaper than the 4GB iPhone, and $150 cheaper than the 8GB iPhone, but there's also much less storage space (256MB + 512MB micro SD card... any other larger mSD cards you have to buy separately), no camera, and at this point, there's no way for the general public to really know how good the software interface is. It also has a smaller screen (but with higher resolution, so that's a plus), with no multi-touch functionality (yet). More pros and cons for the OpenMoko phone vs. the iPhone can be found here.

    I hope the OpenMoko project is a success, and I want one two, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it's an iPhone killer. Come to think of it, good things haven't ever happened for any company that's made a so-called iPod killer, so I wouldn't think OpenMoko should even aspire to be an iPhone killer. Just a good phone/personal portable computer.
  24. Wrong by ssstraub · · Score: 2, Informative

    There's many minor problems with their implementation, but the major problem is that it ignores key presses while listening to messages.
    I am a longtime T-Mobile customer, and I ALWAYS press 7 to delete my voicemail messages before waiting for them to end. Usually I listen to them long enough to know who it is then delete. I assume their voicemail system is the same nationwide.
  25. Someone please explain this.. by Rexdude · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You don't buy an internet router from your ISP.
    You don't buy cars from the Highway Department (or equivalent)
    You don't buy your TV,dishwasher,microwave or other electrical appliances from the electricity company.

    So why on earth do americans still meekly accept the logic of buying mobile phones from service providers?

    The sooner unlocked phones proliferate, there won't be a need to jump through such hoops to unlock an iPhone, or any other phone.

    --
    "..One hosts to look them up, one DNS to find them, and in the darkness BIND them."
    1. Re:Someone please explain this.. by Televiper2000 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, most people lease their Cable/DSL modem from their ISP which is significantly worse than buying. Highway department is a bad analogy since you're not actually buying a service from them. They provide a service that you're able to take advantage of even if you don't pay taxes (tourists, visitors, children). Your electrical company is actually quote far removed from the appliance market. Besides, what are they going to sell you? There's billions of things that you can plug into the wall, are they going to cell all of them? Also, if they did... would they give it to you for what amounts to practically free? I'd say more people don't even consider buying new cell phones unless they're contract is up and the mobile phone company is offering them a new free one. Me, I pick the cheapest one that doesn't look like it's suffering from techno-osteoporosis (feels like it's falling apart in your hand). I just want a phone with some text messaging, an LCD I can see, and some robustness. I'm sure that's how most people feel. They just want a phone that works and perhaps one or two of the additional perks. Getting an unlocked phone and switching providers to save a few bucks would be an unwanted hassle.

      --
      New! Device Legs: These legs will help your poor OEM installed product escape any hamfistedness it may encounter. Ava
  26. Why is GPS primary? by SuperKendall · · Score: 2, Interesting

    GPS is only good for one thing - telling you where you are.

    Yet almost all the time, I know exactly where I am. What I want to know is where something else is, and how to get there. Thus for me of primary importance is the map browsing, and at that the iPhone excels since it's so easy to do local searches on an area you are viewing, have it generate directions you can follow a turn at a time, and browse nearby streets to be sure exactly how to get there once you are close. Panning and zooming in and out are far easier even than on a browser on my desktop!

    Then there's the issue of how reliable your GPS even is - even with standalone units I have the signals go in and out, basically I don't trust them much. The thing I do like about standalone units, locally stored maps for when you have no network at all, does not apply to any other phone anyway (that I know of).

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  27. Wider Selection? by SuperKendall · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Open software and propetiary software without the need for some stupid licenses, resulting in much wider selection

    I'm not quite sure what you mean here, since the application development aspect of the iPhone hacking community requires no licencese and is totally open. In fact I daresay there are a lot more iPhone applications right now than for OpenMoko...

    I love the idea of OpenMoko and may get one myself. But if you think it's at the same level as the iPhone, that's just being delusional and check-list centric.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  28. Re:Except for one small problem by cayenne8 · · Score: 2, Interesting
    "buy them in the US, unlock them and export them? I presume the iphone supports the european bands as well as the american ones."

    Heck, what about the US? I'm wondering if the phone is unlocked....there is nothing preventing you from theoretically using it with a T-Mobile account in the US is there?

    Bringing up another question....what if T-Mobile put in infrastructure to support iPhone visual voicemail...and other goodies that AT&T does...if they reversed engineered it in a 'clean' room, could they not get away with it and allow people in the US to switch to T-Mobile if they so wished?

    --
    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
  29. Just wait for them to be sold in Belgium by houghi · · Score: 2, Informative

    In Belgium sim-locking is illegal. It is expected for the end of 2007, so probably X-mas.

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  30. I can jackson samuel-s fucking fuck compare it by namespan · · Score: 2, Funny

    How the fuck can you compare *that* with OpenMoko, a completely Free phone with a Free firmware, Free Operating System, Free applications, and community of Free Software guys prepared to spend $450 each just to debug the hardware for the benefit of humanity, so that for the first time ever, you can buy a phone that does whatever you want

    Fuck, to fucking compare the fuck out of that fucking comparison, I fucking could fucking point out that for fucking fuck's sake, that fuck, it's like fucking OS X, sure fucks it's fucking less fucking free than fucking Linux, and fuck yes it's fucking more fuck bucks than fucking commodity fucked intel fucking hardware, but sweet freaky fucks if you're fucking aligned with the fucking basic goals of the fucking platform it fucking gets out of your fucking way and lets you fucking get your fucking work done.

    The fuckers who keep fucking *whining* about how the fucking hardware they like to fuck with isn't fucking getting as many fucking marks on its fucking dance card as they'd like can't seem to fucking understand that there are fucking products out there that fucking may not align with *their* fucking particular fucking goals but still fucking-a align with other fucking people. The fucking iPhone fuckign does fucking exactly what some fucking people want it to, even if it doesn't fucking compile motherfucking gentoo.

    Different fucking strokes for different fucking folks, mothafucka'. Can you handle it?

    And BTW, the fucking folks who are fucking spending fuckloads amound of fucking time on this kind of fucking crazy platform fucking may fucking well be fucking smarter than their fucking open-source critics if the fucking iPhone does in fucking fact become a fucking popular mobile platform, like there's quake-fucking indications it fucking will. Maybe the OpenFuckingMoko will find a fucking place too, but fuck, there are very fucking few fucking consumer spaces where it's fucking best to bet on open fucking source.

    Fuck with that, fuckers.

    --
    Libertarianism is rich wolves and poor sheep playing gambler's ruin for dinner.
  31. Nonsense by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This appears to be yet another comment from someone scared of corporate lawyers.

    Fact: The idea that "Shrink-Wrap licensing" is a viable legal concept in this country, even these days, is a myth. It has never been tried in higher courts for software, and they have been thrown out in every case of which I am aware, when it comes to hardware.

    When you walk into a store, and buy something off the shelf, it is YOURS, and you can do with it what you damned well please as long as you are not harming others (like hitting them with it). The only legal exception is if you have agreed otherwise, in advance of the purchase!

    Even if such "shring-wrap" licensing, for such things as DRM, were otherwise legal, they would constitute "contracts of adhesion" which, in brief, are contracts that are not negotiable by the customer before purchase. ("Take it or leave it.") Courts are automatically biased against Contracts of Adhesion and routinely throw them out of court. The general idea is: if you can't negotiate it, it isn't a real contract.

    So... yes, the corporate lawyers might try to step in and stop this, but if anybody has lawyers of their own that are worth the title, they will squash the oppressors without much trouble.

  32. Re:Hehe... by Solra+Bizna · · Score: 2, Funny

    Okay, I just had a mental image of carrying around a 300GB USB drive, with external power supply, just to boot my cell phone.

    I'd do it, too. :|

    -:sigma.SB

    --
    WARN
    THERE IS ANOTHER SYSTEM