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Water Vapor Seen 'Raining' Onto Young Star System

tonganqn writes "Using NASA's Spitzer Space Telescope scientists have discovered huge amounts of water vapor in the young star system, called NGC 1333-IRAS 4B. From the article: 'The water vapor is pouring down from the system's natal cloud and smacking into a dusty disk where planets are thought to form. The observations provide the first direct look at how water, an essential ingredient for life as we know it, begins to make its way into planets, possibly even rocky ones like our own.'"

53 comments

  1. Oxygen and Hydrogen by OrangeTide · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I can imagine large clouds of thin Oxygen and Hydrogen gas. But how do you get the gas dense enough to actually react. In those gaseous nebulas, the "gas" is nearly a vacuum. And water isn't going to come from anywhere but gaseous hydrogen and oxygen.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    1. Re:Oxygen and Hydrogen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      You're thinking backwards. What is actually thought to be the case is that this water vapor is the result of the destruction of a large ice-body, typically a comet. There have been documented cases of two comets colliding, with the result being a relatively concentrated volume of hydrogen and oxygen. These comets are themselves thought to be formed from the polar regions of planets or satellites that have themselves been damaged or destroyed by impacts with other objects.

    2. Re:Oxygen and Hydrogen by MichaelSmith · · Score: 3, Interesting

      But how do you get the gas dense enough to actually react.

      And then, how did our solar system get gas dense enough to form solid ice in massive planet size bodies like Pluto, et al?

      I don't know either. Perhaps we are only seeing a minute fraction of the gas in that area. The water is a minor condensate, and the comets/planets are a minor condensate from the water.

    3. Re:Oxygen and Hydrogen by netsavior · · Score: 1

      much of the ice in the universe also contains methane. When you burn methane it produces heat, CO2 and water. Crash that into a large cloud of oxygen and hydrogen, and you have a fairly likely situation of a sustained set of reactions that melt down the comet, produce water, and leave a nice mix of oxygen and CO2 so that life has a bunch of the key ingredients.

    4. Re:Oxygen and Hydrogen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      how do you get the gas dense enough to actually react. In those gaseous nebulas/

      It's too nebulous a process to explain here.

    5. Re:Oxygen and Hydrogen by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      No it got me thinking. If we can see the water vapor from so far away then it suggests that it is a massive amount of water. I suspect it is a staggering unimaginable amount of water. But suns don't just throw water out, you can't have water vapor in a sun, it would turn to plasma and you'd just end up with hydrogen and oxygen. We know that stars eventually produce all the elements from a source of hydrogen, over many generations of stars for the heavy elements.

      I don't think a comet is going to be big enough. I'm imagining more like a Neptune-mass worth of water, minimum.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    6. Re:Oxygen and Hydrogen by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      That's a lot of comets I would imagine for water to "rain" on a young solar system.

      Where did the comets get their water? Eventually a lot of gas is going to have to clump together and react, it's pretty thin stuff. I guess the coldness of space might limit oxygen's ability to act like an ideal gas and expand to fill the volume of space.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    7. Re:Oxygen and Hydrogen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Hmm. Send the question to Astronomy Cast :)
      They'd be happy to answer it (or go to the Universe Today website).

      My guess... billions of years is long enough to make rare events commonplace. (I'm imagining oxygen and hydrogen ejected from dying stars, followed by cosmic rays causing oxygen radical formation (singlet oxygen is quite easy to make), reacting with any hydrogen coming in contact).

    8. Re:Oxygen and Hydrogen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bet its all forming around some dark matter. Didn't you get the memo? If you cant explain it, its dark matter!

  2. Hot wet young star systems?? by Froboz23 · · Score: 5, Funny

    How does NASA let this kind of filth be posted on their websites? Doesn't the Administration have censors to prevent these kinds of morally dubious scientific discoveries?

    Like hell if I'm ever going to let my children visit that star system.

    --
    Take off every Sig. For great justice.
    1. Re:Hot wet young star systems?? by MichaelSmith · · Score: 2, Funny

      Like hell if I'm ever going to let my children visit that star system.

      But they will be thousands of years old by then.

    2. Re:Hot wet young star systems?? by cstdenis · · Score: 1, Informative

      Rule 34?

      --
      1984 was not supposed to be an instruction manual.
    3. Re:Hot wet young star systems?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like hell if I'm ever going to let my children visit that star system.

      What is this? The R. Kelly star system?

  3. Re:Behold for it is I by Penguinshit · · Score: 1

    If your bush is burning, you need penicillin...

  4. Ultimate Test Case by cmacb · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    'The water vapor is pouring down from the system's natal cloud and smacking into a dusty disk where planets are thought to form.

    Would this "disk" be Blue-ray or HD DVD?

    I'm wondering because the resistance to dust and water (mud) could be a deciding factor in the format wars.
  5. Nobody proved Einstein wrong... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    The more I read about the discoveries in the solar system the more I'm inclined to believe Einstein's remark: "The micro cosmos is the macro cosmos". iow; we might be all part of an enormous chair or other substance. Think about it; even if you burn a chair you might destroy the object but what about the molecules or better yet; the individual atoms? What if the 4th dimension simply lies in size which, in some unknown scheme, is "wrapped" and thus endless ?

  6. Or, alternatively... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    What if you stopped taking drugs for five minutes?

    1. Re:Or, alternatively... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or everyone else could take more drugs than G.P. for 5 minutes. Relativity blows the mind.

    2. Re:Or, alternatively... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If this gets more recursive, we're going to end up goosing reality the wrong way.

  7. MODS ON CRACK by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    Man, somebody's been a little happy with with the negative mods today. Parent is funny, not a troll.

    --
    Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    1. Re:MODS ON CRACK by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1, Informative

      Now that the GP has been modded Funny your post is OT ;)

    2. Re:MODS ON CRACK by k8to · · Score: 1

      Amusingly, in my personal settings "Funny" is larger markdown than "Troll", so you just downgraded it (subjectively).

      (The background to this is that the collective slashdot sense of humour underwhelms me significantly.)

      --
      -josh
    3. Re:MODS ON CRACK by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 1

      And I have Flamebait and Troll mods set to +5. Sometimes they're the most insightful comments.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
  8. So... by Pluvius · · Score: 3, Funny

    I guess this means that Spitzer has discovered a spritzer?

    Rob

  9. If we had better telescopes . . . by StefanJ · · Score: 3, Funny

    . . . we'd see giant terraforming spacecraft from competing interstellar coalitions laying down clouds of spores among the proto-planets in the hopes that life that arises on future worlds will be of their bio-tradition.

    Well, not really, but it's cool to think of.

  10. rocky planets like our own... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you mean there could be hot wet vapor coming from Uranus?

  11. uh huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You know the universe is nothing like we perceive it. If the universe is so large that it takes light millions of years to get here then we only know the universe of yester-million-year. We have no clue what it is actually like today.....

    In light of this, I would like to say that we should all just give up and be glad that god gave us beer. Now that is the path to true enlightenment.

  12. It's a Steam Punk thing. by ScentCone · · Score: 3, Funny

    *clears throat, goes for slightly maniacal tone*

    Electric Universe! Come on, man, just think about it. It takes time to develope these things. Before we had the fancy, new Electric Universe, we had the Water-Powered Universe.

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  13. I'm confused! by jvollmer · · Score: 1

    How does water vapor even exist in a vacuum?

    1. Re:I'm confused! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would think that the water would have to be in that phase in a vacuum if it is warm enough to melt.

    2. Re:I'm confused! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How can water vapor exist in an atmosphere? What's the difference?

    3. Re:I'm confused! by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 1

      Um, vapor is one of two ways water can exist in a vacuum. (Ice is the other; liquid water is right out.) "Water vapor" just means a bunch of individual H20 molecules floating around.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
  14. One in Thirty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "Why did only one stellar embryo of 30 show signs of water? The astronomers say this is most likely because NGC 1333-IRAS 4B is in just the right orientation for Spitzer to view its dense core. Also, this particular watery phase of a star's life is short-lived and hard to catch."

    IANAA. Is this a reasonable explanation?

  15. In Space... by Octopus · · Score: 1

    ...No One Can Hear You Stream!

    1. re: In Space... by KevinColyer · · Score: 1

      ... no-one can hear you steam!

  16. oh noes! by larry+bagina · · Score: 2, Funny

    I just hope it's not chocolate rain!

    --
    Do you even lift?

    These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    1. Re:oh noes! by caol.kailash · · Score: 1

      I just hope it's not chocolate rain! I'm pleased to report it is not chocolate rain...it's purple. But since it's vapor: purple haze.
  17. "like our own..." by posterlogo · · Score: 1

    Is this really like our own? From what little I know about planetary geology, I seem to recall that water did not just rain down on our planet, but was possibly created at or near our early planet from constituent atoms. Could someone clarify this?

  18. Re:I love the picture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Shit, not again. Before we know it, girls start raping their fathers again.

  19. life by Tsiangkun · · Score: 1

    I wonder if this high energy, water rich, dust rich, environment
    could provide an environment where basic building blocks of life like
    amino acids, lipids, and such could form.

    Then these blocks could get frozen into the water vapor,as comets, and sent roaming.

  20. water + dust ... by ozbird · · Score: 2, Funny

    ... = mud. You might have thought Glastonbury was muddy, but that's just peanuts to space...

    Seriously, this might solve how a disc of cigarette smoke-sized particles can condense to form planetesimals, and thus planets.

  21. Re:Oxygen and Hydrogen as Water Vapo(u)r by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    is never seen.

    (Someone deserves an (image word) for their inaccuracy!)

  22. Water Vapor Seen 'Raining' Onto Young Star System by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They're watching us, water in our solar system, raining down upon the rock planet, 3rd from the sun.

  23. Don't be too thrilled about this news by lord_rob+the+only+on · · Score: 1

    This could as well be vaporware

  24. fire hose confusion by icepick72 · · Score: 1

    Below the story Slashdot has "Related Stores - Firehose: ..." At first I thought it was being suggested by submitter that a fire hose is being used to inject water into new planets.

  25. Re:Oxygen and Hydrogen as Water Vapor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What? Your post doesn't make sense.

    You might not like this definition(it's not the scientific one), but I'll post it anyways:

    vapor,
                  n 1: a visible suspension in the air of particles of some substance [syn: vapour]

  26. Gases by Mark_MF-WN · · Score: 1
    Strictly speaking, there aren't any gases in space. It's all ionized -- the universe is mostly plasma.

    As for density, the article is about a star-forming region, where densities are much higher. That's the whole point; gravitation is bringing all this matter together into a big cloud, and densities are becoming high enough that molecules -- especially ultra-stable ones like water -- can form.