Shaolin Monks May Sue Over Tale of Defeat by Ninja

Socguy writes "A unique story on the CBC website details an even more unusual conflict. A Chinese Shaolin temple has demanded an apology from 'an Internet user who claimed a Japanese ninja beat its kung fu-practicing monks in a showdown.' A letter from the members of the temple, posted on the Internet on Thursday, denied the fight ever took place and called on the person who posted the claim under the name "Five minutes every day" to apologize to the temple's martial arts masters. Monks from the temple, which is located in the Songshan Mountain region of the Henan province, said they will consider legal action if he or she doesn't make a public apology."

Comments

ninja's "calling out" shaolin monks?

[kae_verens]

Ninja's do not do competitions. This is something that Maasaki Hatsumi has said - there will never be an official Bujinkan representative at any competition.

As for the past - why would a ninja be so stupid as to fight in a tournament? The way a ninja fights is not in the open - they sneak and kill in secret, and only fight hand-to-hand when there is no alternative.

Would a ninja beat an entire group of shaolin monks? You bet. Wait for them to go to sleep, then pick them off one by one. Easy as pie.

Wouldn't happen that way

[Anonymous Coward]

Ninjas were assassins used in feudal Japan and as such, if they were seen, they'd already failed.

What happened with a Ninja, you would simply be found dead the next morning. Or perhaps never found. That was a successful Ninja. I train in a Japanese system based on fighting styles used in the 15th and 16th century and just for fun, we'll try a few simple techniques that are/were attributed to Ninjas. Now I suspect there really were never Ninjas, but I'll play along for 2 hours to have some fun.

Typical is that as you walk by somebody (opposite way), if you grab their arm and yank straight down, they will fall. It seems like it shouldn't work, but it does. And it only works if the person doesn't expect it. If you fall backwards quickly like that, you'll be stunned for a second or two. If the attacker has a knife, you could be dead within seconds. That's (to me) the essence of Ninja stuff. Quiet, and striking when your guard is down, and then they're gone.

Again, I think it's a lot of B.S. but I think the Ninja myth is to Japan what the Cowboy myth is to the U.S. or what the King Arthur myth is to England.

Re:Wouldn't happen that way

[A nonymous Coward]

If that's the essence of ninja, then someone's pulling your leg (ha ha) or you are pulling ours. If the ninja has a knife, why not just stab the victim in the first place? Why not throw the knife? Why go thru the extra steps of, first, walking past the victime, and second, yanking his arm?

Seems more like a mall ninja tactic, what you describe.

Re:Wouldn't happen that way

[jahudabudy]

Again, I think it's a lot of B.S. but I think the Ninja myth is to Japan what the Cowboy myth is to the U.S. or what the King Arthur myth is to England.

And just like the cowboy myth, and probably Arthurian legend, there is some historical basis for the ninja legend as well. I have studied (in an informal manner) feudal Japanese samurai culture, and run across some material related to ninja. Ninja basically began as traditional samurai that operated outside the code of Bushido in order to defeat their enemy. One almost certainly apocryphal story I ran across related the origin of "ninja" as follows:
It was considered a great honor for a samurai in an army attacking a city to be the first one across the city walls. In order to be able to claim the honor of being the first across the walls when battle began, a couple of bright lads got the idea to sneak into the city the night before! It became a short step from there to sneaking inside a city before battle to plant units that would spring up behind a city's defenses, assassinate enemy leaders before battle began, etc. Eventually, a few groups or even clans became willing to hire themselves out to perform such "dishonorable" actions, which naturally became more sophisticated as the "ninjas" gained experience in this type of warfare. But just like any other criminal organization, they didn't exactly advertise; this secrecy is probably what began the myth of the ninja, which was then exaggerated by the clans themselves as a form of PR. But I don't think there is any real consensus on the origin, or even exact role, of the ninja in Japanese society. The very nature of the myth itself makes it difficult to disprove. "The fact that you know nothing about this secret society of invisible assassins merely proves how good they really were!"

Re:Not invincible

[elborrachogato]

Well ninjas use ninja stars and throwing knives so it isn't fair. C'mon, ninjas are assassins primarily, meaning, if you were to be killed by one, you probably wouldn't have seen him coming. It's like putting Fedor Emelianenko against a sniper.

Re:Not invincible

[Palpitations]

Interesting you bring up this point. I have spoken with several very experienced martial artists (see my other comment, here), and one common recurring theme that came up was that a sniper was the closest thing to a ninja you could find today.

Use what's available, have the element of surprise on your side, kill without being seen, and get out safely. Sure sounds like a sniper to me. With that sentiment coming largely from someone who is highly trained in Kung Fu, has a few high caliber rifles, and sometimes carries 2 .45ACP handguns on him (to help him become one with his weapons...), I wasn't about to argue.

Re:Not invincible

[jma05]

> If this is the case, how come shaolin kung-fu masters aren't winning UFC championships and such?

Ai yai yai. One of those YouTube arguments again? Shaolin Kung Fu is a "Martial" art. It was designed for the battle field (albeit in a firearm free era). There have been historical instances where the monks used their art to fight entire army (shaolin temple was destroyed when the army was not happy with the outcome of the first match and declared a rematch - without telling the monks first) and yes, pirates (despite an abundance of pirate jokes on this thread). The art itself has little to prove. However, it is not optimized for ring fighting (just like "powerful grappling" is when your opponents have spears, swords and bows) although it certainly had been used for the same. Besides, no single martial art style can win MMA style matches anymore. MMA is kind of a unique style now optimized for that rule sets.

Historically, most martial arts were meant to be used in conjunction with weapons (anything else was not practical at that time). In modern times, where the said weapons have lost relevance, we mostly use the unarmed aspects of the styles. Shaolin monks were great because these spiritual nerds trained early, trained a lot and trained to save their skin. Anyone who spends that much time in any rich martial art is bound to be awesome. The modern monks are mostly performers that the Chinese govt sanctioned after the success of the movies of the temple.

> There's no reason a clever ninja couldn't have also come up with clever techniques to beat monks as well.

Sure, Ninja's were said to kill silently - and that can be done on anyone. But one thing they never did was have challenge matches.

Re:Not invincible

[RESPAWN]

He may have been after more than just subduing the attacker -- he may have been trying to make sure that the attacker never came after him again. I know a family who got mugged during Mardi Gras this year. Like any normal citizen, they went to the police, filed a report, and gave a description of the attacker. And the attacker was actually caught. 2 weeks later he's out on bail, pissed off, and calling their house threatening them with bodily harm, etc., etc. Unfortunately, shit like this does happen.

Now, take the GP's post. If you were the mugger who was very soundly beat by this martial artist, would you have much motivation to try to come after the guy later, after you're healed up? Machiavelli said (and I'm paraphrasing here since I no longer have a copy of The Prince) that the only way to truly win a conflict is to beat your enemy so soundly and completely that they won't even entertain the notion of coming back for another attack later. The same can be said for a mugging as can be said for an actual war.

so what if we dont give a hoot

[hesaigo999ca]

I have to say, being one myself, I don't think any ninja would have the time or energy to waste on little things such as pride. I would more so believe that some bystander saw something relating to a duel where there was a need for defense on some level and it is quite possible that a ninja could beat a monk or a monk could beat a ninja...depends on the level they are at.

A Koga region ninja could very easily beat a shaolin monk , but might have problems with a white crane kung-fu master....why, diff. styles, and diff. combinations, certain regions are closer, therefor have seen the other styles or have had influence on them.

I could even let you know that the present day GrandMaster Ninja Hatsumi sensei, not only is a ninja, but comes from a long line of samurai masters...his family were samurai, and he learned the ways of the ninja. SO anything is possible in this world, I have heard stories of how demeaning a monk could be to fellow peasants, and I have seen myself how family oriented and
how much value for life certain ninjutsu masters have,
I would hate to generalize as so many people do in their ignorance (and as in this article).

If it were a real shaolin monk , there would be no lawyers, as the duel would take place immediately afterwards, with the monk seeking out the indivdual (as it would be his duty)
and "finishing" the duel.

Both sides take no sh*t and I think it sad that someone could start this whole thing as a media frenzy, where if asked I bet neither side would really care about such clames.