Mandriva Linux 2008 RC 1 Released

AdamWill writes "The first release candidate of Mandriva Linux 2008, codenamed Galilee, is now available. The release notes are also available via the wiki. A guide to major new features (some of which are not yet implemented in this release candidate), and the detailed technical specifications are also available. This release candidate is available as a three CD or one DVD Free edition (containing no non-free software or drivers) for the x86-32 and x86-64 architectures, with a traditional installer, and as a mini-CD edition for both x86-32 and x86-64 architectures. A One combined live / install CD edition will be released in the near future (problems with unionfs prevented the One edition from being release at the same time as the other editions)."

Comments

Hopefully

[fleshball]

This will reignite interest in mandriva... I o not know why people always go for the less polished distros, like ubuntu, over something supported nad stable like mandriva.

Re:Hopefully

[CastrTroy]

I've been using Mandriva for 6 years and I am thoroughly unimpressed with Ubuntu, Fedora, Gentoo, and all the other Linux distros that seem to be garnering so much attention. Ubuntu especially unimpresses me because it's supposed to be some big jump in desktop usability, but doesn't seem to offer anything that Mandriva doesn't offer, and actually tends to be lacking in quite a few areas.

Re:Hopefully

[betterunixthanunix]

Too late for me. I used Mandrake for years, then the shift to Mandriva occurred, and then the problems started. The repositories got screwed up (I know, they were required to change the name, but they could have done it more smoothly), then packages became even more out of date (it was still running a 2.6.12 kernel for MDV2006 last time I checked), and finally I just got too fed up and switched to Fedora Core 5, and have been running Fedora ever since. I will probably upgrade an old file server that is still running Mandrake, just so I can get updates (right now, updates are not even possible).

Re:Hopefully

[N7DR]

I o not know why people always go for the less polished distros, like ubuntu, over something supported nad stable like mandriva.

I can tell you why I switched to Kubuntu after six years with Mandr[ake,iva]:

1. 64-bits was relegated to very-low-priority (an inordinate number of supposedly-supported 64-bit packages had dependency failures)
2. A large percentage of bug reports would lie untouched not just for months, but for years. I have within the past couple of months received acknowledgements for bugs that I filed nearly two years ago -- and those acknowledgements basically came down to "this bug report is filed against a version that is no longer supported".
3. When a bug report was acknowledged in a timely manner, it was almost always to the effect of "this bug does not exist in 32-bit version; unable to test 64-bit" (or the fact that it was filed against 64-bit was simply ignored)
4. Official update mirrors would disappear for weeks at a time
5. Security updates would be made available weeks after exploits became known.

My experience with Kubuntu has not been painless, but I have found none of the above to be true for Kubuntu. It was with considerable reluctance that I switched, but in any case those were my reasons.

YMMV, of course (and probably does).

Re:Hopefully

[flyingfsck]

Hmm, things got decidedly better since the 2006 version. If 2008 is anythink like the 2007 Spring edition, then it will be suuuuuuupuuuuuuuurrrrb...

Re:Hopefully

[mahlerfan999]

I have to agree that Mandriva's team responds to bug reports too slowly, and do not do enough to fix them. I think that is simply due to lack of man power. But they are making better and better distros since they came into being (I mean Mandriva, not Mandrake). Perhaps if they pick up popularity, they will also make more money and then they can hire enough man power to do it right. Right now though they are far away from being there. I hope to see them improve to get to see better times though.

Re:Hopefully

[Steel Shepherd]

I used Mandriva for a few years and switched, eventually to Kubuntu. I tried Suse, Fedora, and Mepis. I really liked Mepis (based on Ubuntu) but switched to Kubuntu based on a sound driver problem. The switch was almost effortless. There is no question Mandriva is a polished distro. Desktop usability is certainly it's forte. My problem with it was package availability, especially when it's popularity began to slide. I ended up running cooker to try to keep up to date and try packages that were not available as stable. Switching to Mepis, based on Ubuntu, solved that for me. The management tools are not as good or as complete as the drake tools, but they are generally sufficient. I can't say though that I recall desktop usability being a strength of Ubunutu's. It's for everyone, as in many languages and affordable to all. If Mandriva gives you what you need, VERY COOL! If something isn't there, doesn't work, or isn't being kept up to date, a switch to Ubuntu will probably solve the problem.

Re:Hopefully

[Solokron]

I am going to have to disagree with this one. I enjoyed Mandriva myself but having others that were unfamiliar with any Linux desktop use it was not quite as easy as having them use Ubuntu. It's one thing to offer a clean desktop with plenty of features, it's another to keep it clean and simple.

Re:Hopefully

[Reziac]

Just curious as to what differences/lacks you've encountered?

No linux distro has ever entirely caught me, but to date my favourite was Mandrake v7.2.

Re:Hopefully

[fyoder]

When the name change occurred my account with their Mickey Mouse... make that Mandrake... rather Mandriva Club broke. My emails went unanswered, in spite of the fact I'd shelled out money to them. Switched to Fedora and haven't looked back (though am looking forward to trying Kubuntu). Frankly, I'm surprised they still exist.

Re:Hopefully

[myowntrueself]

4. Official update mirrors would disappear for weeks at a time

What drove me away from Mandrake (as it was then) was that every time I wanted to install a new package I'd have to spend a couple of hours:

1. Searching for the new location for the repository. They seemed to constantly change the paths arbitrarily every few weeks or so, apparently because they 'decided' that the old path wasn't a good naming convention or something.

2. Downloading the updated package info.

In Debian/Ubuntu an apt-get update takes a little while, maybe a minute or so. In Mandrake the equivalent to apt-get update (using urpmi) would take an hour or so. On the same internet connection. Which was 100M.

I used the 'easy urpmi' site to keep track of the repositories but it was still very very slow and painful work.

Re:Hopefully

[Goldberg's Pants]

Not sure why the original post is flagged as a troll right now. It's a perfectly fair comment. I've just got back into using Linux with Ubuntu and I love it. I used to use Mandrake in my previous Linux days. I always found it to be exceptionally good. Better than RedHat, Suse etc...

If I could be bothered I'd do a comparison of distros, but Ubuntu was largely painless, does everything I want, and is ludicrously popular meaning if there's a program I want and I don't want to cock about with source releases, I can invariably find a package of it.

Re:Hopefully

[$pace6host]

I used Mandriva (and Mandrake) for years, and really liked it, except for updates. I would ALWAYS eventually run into bad packages that wouldn't install for one reason or another, but were required for other packages, and I'd constantly have to update where I pulled packages from or I'd end up with bad signatures. My Xubuntu box never had any of those problems, so I finally gave up about 2 months ago, and switched the Mandriva box to Kubuntu. Those problems were likely with the mirror network (not Mandriva itself), but that's part of what you sign up for when you choose the distribution, so I don't know if I'll switch back. I don't like the desktop quite as much (it's not bad, though), but updates and package installs have been absolute simplicity. I also find it easier to get answers to questions with Ubuntu.

Re:Hopefully

[ricegf]

I too used Mandrake / Mandriva for years (it was my first full-time distro), but wandered away a few years back. I lost track of the company once Gaël Duval left. Partly, I was disappointed by the website, which I never quite understood (perhaps I should have studied harder in French :-). Partly, I kept falling into dependency hell - when I tried Ubuntu, installing new packages Just Worked, and I couldn't bring myself to return to my first love.

But I remember Mandriva fondly, and wish them all the best with 2008.

Re:Hopefully

[Anonymous Coward]

Whilst still mainly an XP user at home I have dual booted a Red Hat based linux distro since RH 5.2 switching to the Mandrake distro and its successors at around MDK7. Last week after seeing yet more articles about how wonderful Ubuntu was I decided to install it on my second PC instead of upgrading the version of Mandriva on there. I wasn't impressed. For the first time in years I had to edit my xorg.conf just to get my old 19" CRT monitor to display at a resolution higher than 1024x768 at a headache inducing 60Hz. In recent years I only recall editing this when installing proprietary NVidia drivers or cutting edge packages like Beryl at the time on Mandrake/Mandriva.

I quickly swapped to Kubuntu as I remembered why I don't like Gnome but overall I found I was diving to the shell a lot more for trivial tasks than Mandriva which has nice easy to use apps to accomplish most things so i can't figure out why this is touted as good for beginners. I am a software developer on HP-UX systems and also administer about half a dozen HP-UX test workstations so I am quite familiar with using various *nix shells but i really don't see why I should have to use them for simple config tasks on a desktop orientated distro.

My only complaint with Mandriva is that it can take a while for some packages to be updated Firefox and Thunderbird instantly coming to mind but unless you use some of the cooker/backport packages updates are extremely easy and painless with little chance of dependency hell often associated with RPM based distros but urpmi (used through the standard package manager or command line) sorts out a lot of these problems.

With Ubuntu being pre-installed on big OEM boxes it will no doubt get a lot of support and hopefully mature quickly but at present for desktop use Mandriva wins hands down hell even my mother was able to use it without any hitches.

Re:Hopefully

[quadfour]

You've described my experience with Mandriva exactly. Numerous bug reports just ignored. Being verbally belittled when trying to shed light on issues (even though I was a contributor).

It is far from a polished distro, and is leagues behind any other major distro due to the aforementioned issues IMO.

Re:Hopefully

[imr]

1. Searching for the new location for the repository. They seemed to constantly change the paths arbitrarily every few weeks or so, apparently because they 'decided' that the old path wasn't a good naming convention or something.
This is now done interactively from the package manager, you just click "add" and it gets a list of mirrors over the internet, you choose one, and your medias are automagically configured:
main + contrib + non-free which countain most of the stuff and their respective updates, backports, testing directories. (backports and testing being ignored by default without you having to configure anything).
So all this is transparent to the user now.

2. Downloading the updated package info.
there has been for years a synthesis version of this which is just a few Ko heavy.
With the procedure above, the synthesis version is chosen by defaut, you can choose by media to use or not the synthesis version. So info updates takes only a few seconds unless you really want the extra infos that are in the complete info file.

All this is of course possible from the command line too.

Re:Hopefully

[JayAEU]

Why not give PCLinuxOS 2007 a shot, instead? It's based on Mandriva, but much more polished and ironed out than the original.

You can get it from www.pclinuxos.org for free and it works like a charm. I just switched my wife from WXP over to it, which is something I never dreamt possible. No complaints, no nag, no malware, no viruses...

Amyway, I think that original Mandriva has become too commercial while they don't give you the impression that they really can deliver on support etc.

Re:Hopefully

[imr]

About the bug reporting problem, this problem has been adressed the last months by Adam who posted this news.
He has set up a team to go through all bugs and clean up the base, and they now follow all new bugs so that they don't leave reports unanswered, forgotten or unsolved. They also take care of the reporter side, whenever people need to be asked for details or tests.
There is also a new bugzilla, much quicker, setup by vdanen iirc.

So yes, there has been problems, but there is also a strong will to do what it's right to correct them, and there are some fine persons over there to do it. Don't take what you experienced then for granted.

Re:Hopefully

[Anonymous Coward]

clean and simple is GNOME.
clean and plenty is KDE.
You have them both with any distro. This is not about mandriva/ubuntu.

mandriva/ubuntu is:
distro with front end users oriented tools/distro with front end users oriented millionair
You choose.

Re:Hopefully

[ozmanjusri]

I tried Suse, Fedora, and Mepis. I really liked Mepis (based on Ubuntu) but switched to Kubuntu based on a sound driver problem. The switch was almost effortless.

I'll second that, and point out it's one of the reasons I choose Linux over single-origin operating systems.

Like Steel Shepherd, I've tried several distros (Ubuntu, Fedora, etc) and was impressed with aspects of them, but eventually settled on the ones which work for me now (SLED10 for business and Sabayon for fun). Switching between the distros while I was testing was totally painless, and installs mostly took just a few minutes of my time, with the bulk of the install occurring unattended.

If someone develops a new distro which works better for me, I can change to that without significant effort.

That's the free-as-in-freedom aspect of Open Source at work, and I guess it matters more to me than some, but it's nice to see it's getting easier for all computer users.

Re:Hopefully

[rmessenger]

My problem with it was package availability, especially when it's popularity began to slide.

I agree with GP that Ubuntu's usability, features, etc. aren't overly impressive compared to other distros like mandriva. However, Ubuntu's popularity attracts not only more users, but developers, driver support, millions of users testing Ubuntu on every kind of hardware, native linux installed on new hardware from major companies like dell, and vast, vast quantities of great free software that generally integrates perfectly into the desktop.

.Ubuntu's technical specifications themselves aren't responsible for this; it has simply reached a user critical mass of sorts. Windows operates on the same principle, and in theory, this principle can easily lead to a kind of de facto lockdown on inovation (just look at Windows).

HOWEVER, I think we need to put away our idealism here, and be pragmatic: the Ubuntu effect is the lesser of evils / means to an end that can bring a more modern, open, secure, and free operating system into the main stream. And this, I propose, is a very worthy goal.

Re:Hopefully

[the_womble]

I agree completely. I tried Kubuntu and went back to Mandriva.

There is one thing that is better in Ubuntu/Kubuntu. Package installation. The repo is a bit larger, Synaptic has a lot more in the way of search and filtering than RPMDrake, and apt has suggested and recommended package relationships as well a required.

Other than that, Mandriva is better in every way. Configuration, in particular, is way ahead of Ubuntu, and more ahead of Kubuntu.

Re:Hopefully

[Greg_D]

This seems to be an ongoing issue with Linux distros.

I started out with Slackware, moved on to Redhat, then Mandrake came along and made Redhat more usable.

I dipped out of Linux for a while, came back in, and moved right into Debian because I liked their package management better.

Then used Mepis for a while before settling on Ubuntu.

What seems to happen is that a new distro will come along and their user community will be galvanized into keeping the distro up to date with the features that the desktop user community really wants, then when they decide to try to grab a piece of the corporate market, their updates slow down and you end up having to hunt more and more through different webpages to try to figure out how to get component X and feature Y to work with the distro.

Right now, I'm really happy with the speed in which new Ubuntu versions are coming out and the focus they seem to give the desktop market. Additionally, software like Aptana and Eclipse are making it easier for web application developers to do their thing without having to worry about being tied to a specific OS.

The fun thing is that at the rate Ubuntu and some of the other distros are going, in 5 years or so when the desktop environments trully mature on a level with OSX and Windows, they really WILL have the superior OS from a technical AND usability standpoint. Not only that, but it'll give the average home user more choices as the abominable "software as service" trend becomes more mainstream.

Re:Hopefully

[flyingfsck]

An hour??? Obviously your setup was wrong. The Mandriva update mechanism is the same idea as the Ubuntu one - updates are done from world-wide mirrors, so if it is configured right then it cannot be any better or worse than Ubuntu.

Re:Hopefully

[AdamWill]

Mandriva 2008 introduces Suggests: support, actually. :)

Re:Hopefully

[giorgiofr]

Somewhat O/T
I don't understand the dislike for "software as a service". It makes perfect sense from a management POV and it seems to me like an obvious evolution from fat client to thin client to externally managed thin client. Even for home users: remote administration for, say, 15$/year with upgrades, patches and the likes would be a useful tool. Turn on the PC, suddenly Vista is running and everything just works(tm) (yeah, far-fecthed, I know).
Of course this does not mean that it's a perfect solution for everyone - I for one wouldn't use it - but for a) small groups of people unable to manage their IT themselves and b) huge organizations who would spend too much trying to manage their IT themselves it makes sense.
Finally, it seems to me that upgrading every year to a new release, is in the end the *same* as using SAS, except *you* are dealing with all the headaches. Of course, I guess having a company run out with your files on you might be an unpleasant side-effect. Trust professionalism at best, or cryptography at worst.

Re:Hopefully

[Anonymous Coward]

[his will reignite interest in mandriva... I o not know why people always go for the less polished distros, like ubuntu, over something supported nad stable like mandriva.]

What? . . . Mandriva stable? lol, you'll get arts crashing 10 to the dozen from the get go, and all other forms of crashing going on. Debian sid/unstable is faaaarrrrr more stable than /any/ mandriva /stable/ release, as is Ubuntu.

"less polished distros" IMO, Ubuntu is a more 'polished' distro than Mandriva. (and no, I don't use Ubuntu, I have tried it, but I prefer Debian sid) And when it comes to Mandriva and polish, well, lets just say you can't polish a turd.

Mandriva is, and has been on a downward slide for some time now. Lets be honest, it's buggy at best.

Re:Hopefully

[buchanmilne]

I ended up running cooker to try to keep up to date and try packages that were not available as stable.

This problem has been solved since the release of 2007.0, which introduced new media on the mirrors, and at the same time changes to the build system allowing maintainers to easily submit testing and backport packages from cooker.

At present, selection of packages to backport is mainly done by the maintainer, but requests are often taken on IRC and mailing lists.

IMHO, there is almost no advantage Ubuntu has over Mandriva (besides hype).

Re:Hopefully

[buchanmilne]

1. 64-bits was relegated to very-low-priority (an inordinate number of supposedly-supported 64-bit packages had dependency failures)

I note that a lot of users insisting on running a 64bit OS for no other reason than they have an x86_64 CPU (which is quite a lame reason - specifically if you have less than 2GB ram in said machine) don't notice that Mandriva has always had good dual-arch support. This means that you can transparently install and run the 32bit packages as well (which for a long time was impossible on Debian and all derivatives, where the only way to run 32bit apps was via 32bit chroot). Unfortunately, this, and the fact that some packages (OpenOffice.org, and all it's dependencies) were installed from 32bit packages by default (for good reason), meant that you would have both architecture packages. Invariably, users would add just the 64bit update repos (and not the 332bit ones as well), and then wonder why they have conflicts between different releases of different architectures of the same package ....

Some of these issues have been improved, but I note that all distros with multi-arch support have problems educating users (such as "use rpm -q --qf %{ARCH}\n" to see what architecture the package is, "remember to install the 32bit nss_ldap if you have 32bit apps - specifically proprietary ones - running as users authenticated via LDAP, etc. etc.).

I have within the past couple of months received acknowledgements for bugs that I filed nearly two years ago -- and those acknowledgements basically came down to "this bug report is filed against a version that is no longer supported".

This is actually evidence of the fact that bug reports are now being handled more pro-actively than in the past ...

4. Official update mirrors would disappear for weeks at a time

Distributions have little control over what mirror providers do, but there are some improvements that could be made to the mirroring situation.

5. Security updates would be made available weeks after exploits became known.

Sorry, but this is pure FUD. I make a point of looking at the delays in issuing updates for vulnerabilities on lwn.net, and Mandriva is usually ahead of at least two other main-stream distros (e.g. Fedora, Ubuntu, Gentoo).

Re:Hopefully

[urbanradar]

My problem with it was package availability, especially when it's popularity began to slide. I ended up running cooker to try to keep up to date and try packages that were not available as stable. Switching to Mepis, based on Ubuntu, solved that for me. The management tools are not as good or as complete as the drake tools, but they are generally sufficient. I can't say though that I recall desktop usability being a strength of Ubunutu's. It's for everyone, as in many languages and affordable to all. If Mandriva gives you what you need, VERY COOL! If something isn't there, doesn't work, or isn't being kept up to date, a switch to Ubuntu will probably solve the problem.

For the record, another good distro to try in situations like these is PCLinuxOS -- it's originally based on Mandriva, so it includes many of the Mandriva management tools, but has incredibly comprehensive package repositories of its own (easily accessible through Synaptic) and the best hardware support out of any distro I've tried. The community is generally also very helpful and friendly. Style-wise, the default theme is a little tacky IMHO, but that's certainly no show-stopper.

(I'm not associated with the PCLinuxOS project, by the way -- just a happy user.)

Re:Hopefully

[AvitarX]

I know I stopped using Mandriva (still Mandrake) when I realized after 2 years in their club at the basic level I was paying more than for Windows (by far) a still couldn't get the 64-bit download. I ended up not using Lnux for a while, then went SUSE 10 (when Novell started making ISO downloads available again), and now use Ubuntu as my only desktop.

I bet the popularity loss had to do with the requirement to join their club for ISO's with quick downloads.

Re:Hopefully

[noddyxoi]

So did you have virus in mandriva ? I know i don't have any.

Re:Hopefully

[AdamWill]

Mandriva's repos are actually rather larger than PCLOS'. PCLOS drops a few thousand packages that are in MDV.

Re:Hopefully

[urbanradar]

Mandriva's repos are actually rather larger than PCLOS'. PCLOS drops a few thousand packages that are in MDV.

Really? That surprises me. I can't remember the last time I wanted to install something and it wasn't in the PCLOS repos. And as far as I know, PCLOS was actually born out of a project by Texstar (the main PCLOS developer) to provide non-official repositories with additional packages for the Mandriva community...

Maybe my information is outdated...? But whatever the case is, PCLOS still provides me with the best desktop experience I've had on any system, and right now, I'd still recommend it to anyone.

Re:Hopefully

[AdamWill]

I'm not surprised, as you sound like a desktop end-user. PCLOS is more single-purpose than MDV (Tex would tell you the same) - it's aimed particularly at 'normal' desktop home users. So a bunch of packages that are really only of interest to servers, for instance, are left out. Mandriva is a general-purpose distro - it's intended to be usable as a production web server, for instance, as well as a regular desktop - so it has all that stuff.

Re:Hopefully

[AdamWill]

Just in case you don't know, since 2007, ISOs are once more available to everyone (Club members and the public) at the same time.

Re:Hopefully

[urbanradar]

Ah, good point, I hadn't taken that into consideration -- now it makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up.

I work in web development, so I do have to deal with servers once in a while, but I generally write code and leave the actual server setup and administration to other people (other than my very basic local installation of Apache), so yes, you're right, I am definitely first and foremost a desktop user.

I'll refine my statement then: I'd happily recommend PCLOS to anyone looking for a solid, modern desktop system!

Re:Hopefully

[AvitarX]

Too bad people stopped releasing packages for it as a major desktop distro in the 2-3 years in between. Between the effort the Debian team does, the effort the Ubuntu team doeas, and the fact that both often get pre-built packages from projects, or at the very least, special compile directions, it will take another distro getting the support of Ubuntu before I am ready to switch again . It may be behind Mandriva and SUSE now, but it is ahead of where they were when I stopped using Linux, and for me ahead of OSX and Windows (hardware price over OSX and pakage availability over both).

When I as using Mandrake I found the removable drive thing would often lock-up requiring a reboot to fix, in Ubuntu it works great (though with 3 years to improve it probably works great everywhere).

Windows costs about 15-20/year, I give about $10/year to each Debian and Ubuntu, and a little bit to other projects. Paying $60/year for limited access to the Free software version of only 32-bit Mandrake me to them, and it will be hard to make me switch back. Based on their dropping out of the American Linux conscious I doubt I am alone.

Re:Hopefully

[Talchas]

But for some of the programs that would be sold as SAS, you don't buy an upgrade every year unless you're nuts.

Re:Hopefully

[CastrTroy]

I'm not sure about the Mandriva Repositories, which are quite large, but once you use Easy URPMI to add the contrib and PLF sources, then I don't think there's a piece of software that I haven't been able to find.

Re:Hopefully

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, that is the problem with the centralized software distribution, like the one in Linux distributions. Obviously, the acceptance and popularity doesn't depend on the distro quality and technical merits, but on the number of packages that are available in repositories. So, the number and availability of applications is becoming more important than other factors. Now, isn't that the same with Windows?

Re:Hopefully

[Lproven]

There is an aphorism: "Jack of all trades, master of none."

Mandriva tries too hard to be all things to all men. You want KDE? You got it. Prefer GNOME? We do that, too. Want obscureWM? Yes, we include that. Want a smooth desktop? We offer that. Want everything and the kitchen sink? We can do that too.

It's too much, too widespread.

I don't want to spend lots of time tracking what is state of the art in Linux apps. I want someone who does that for a living, or as a passion, to choose the best of breed of each type of app and bung them on a CD for me. I don't want to have to select from hundreds of packages, lots of options. I want it quick, clean and simple. Then, if I want to explore alternatives, I want that, too.

By the same token, I run Linux because I've been using Unix for 20y. I trust it. So, I want a tried-and-tested packaging system, something Done Right from day 1, not some lash-up that later had online repositories added to it, then after that, some form of automatic dependency resolution. I want that to have been designed in from the start, as it is absolutely critical. I know RPM, I've used it for years. I grew to hate it over those years. Apt-get works and when I screw it up it's usually because I was fiddling.

I don't want lairy themes, colourful desktops and snazzy cartoon-themed icons. I don't want bally penguins everywhere. I want it sober, clean, smart and easy on the eyes. Most Linux desktops look like they were designed by colour teenage boys with hormone imbalances. I want my desktop to look muted & elegant.

I don't much care for KDE for the same sorts of reasons. It started well and around v1 I loved it and v2 was... all right, ish. Since then, it's bloated into a horrid ugly mess. I want my desktop to be simple, elegant and minimal. I do not want things to fade into view with stipple effects; I do not want a fake LCD font on the clock; I do not want a taskbar cluttered with resident programs I didn't ask for and don't use. I want as little as possible, no distractions, nothing getting in the way.

Mandrake started out as Red Hat with KDE. That was good. Simple, clean, focussed.

Since then, it's grown into a monster.

Ubuntu started out as Debian made easy for the desktop. Simple, one purpose, one app for one job.

And it *still is.*

The people who want to graft on 18 extra wheels and a windmill can go off and play with Kubuntu or something. If they want training wheels on it, they can play with Mepis or Mint or Freespire or something like that.

Ubuntu itself remains focussed, minimal and simple. That is the essence of beauty. Nothing more than what is absolutely required.

Re:Hopefully

[Anonymous Coward]

And there lies the problem. There are just too many distros out there for Linux which is driving away lot of people who want to try out Linux. Though I have to admit, I am one of those who tried a few distros before settling down with Ubuntu.

For the noobs, there is nothing really different between Ubuntu and Madriva or any other distro for that matter - provided you just work with a terminal/vi/perl/Python (or lang of choice).

If you just want fancy graphics, go hand over all your savings to Microsoft and keep hoping you earn enough to keep upgrading your hardware to keep up with the software, software to keep up with the hardware - infinite loop...

Re:Hopefully

[davidsyes]

Is Filelight still supported?

Is the command line rhyme tool re-supported?

Is ETHERAPE painlessly re-supported?

I've had problems with libs for each.

Will it let me force the install of Win4Lin 4 (or the pre-xp, pre-2k version so I can run win 98x, since I don't NEED xp or 2k on my Lx box...)

Re:Hopefully

[AdamWill]

contrib is an official Mandriva repository.

Re:Hopefully

[AdamWill]

Have you tried the Mandriva GNOME live / install CD lately?

Re:Hopefully

[AdamWill]

Filelight's fine, I think. Etherape hasn't been built since 2007.0, I'll give it a kick today to make sure it's okay in 2008 final. Rhyme does not appear to be packaged, I'll look into that.

Re:Hopefully

[davidsyes]

Thanks for replying. I think Rhyme is a kewl tool. It makes looking up words and word endings a SNAP... It seems to me it should be a spotlight item for non-likers of the command line...

Re:Hopefully

[AdamWill]

Well, I packaged Rhyme, but it doesn't work!

[adamw@lenovo rhyme]$ rhyme orange
Finding perfect rhymes for orange...
2: orange

see, useless ;)

okay, okay, bad joke. All three packages will be fully up to date and working in 2008. Thanks again for the suggestions.

Re:Hopefully

[mrsteveman1]

Software as a service will be used to control users even more. Right now you at least have the code running locally.

On a DRM scale, SAS is even worse than Palladium.

Re:Hopefully

[Hucko]

I'd dissagree only on the package management system. When I was using Mandarake urpmi still lead to rpm hell (slower than Redhat though.) Ubuntu has got into dependency hell, but it was easier to get out of too, so I've stuck with Ubuntu. On other factors of usability (day to day stuff), Suse and Mandriva still are watching Ubuntu approach the finish line polishing their trophy. Okay, maybe a little exaggeration, but their config tools are better. If there was a debian base fork of either of those, I'd probably go back. Heck, I'll probably go back anyway eventually. (My itch for a new distro is starting.)

Re:Hopefully

[lanc]

ah, flamebait? how about a

setenv irony_detector on

hm?

Re:Hopefully

[Anonymous Coward]

yes, it sucks, menus don't update when you install prog's, sound system crashes, when you close the mixer vis the 'X' button, you get a crash, EVERY time, if you do it via the menu, it's fine, and on and on it goes.

Re:Hopefully

[kbahey]

Same here.

I used Mandrake for my server and the workstations until around they became Mandriva.

What made me switch to Kubuntu:

- Mandriva 10.something (was it LE 2005?) took ages to boot. It was painfully slow.
- apt/deb makes it easier to stay up to date.

Now everything from my laptop, kids' desktop, server, hosting run Ubuntu server or Kubuntu.

If Mandriva works for others, well and good. For me, I find in Kubuntu what I need. YMMV.

Mandriva

[Anonymous Coward]

"The Gay Linux"

Re:Stay Away From My Bum, Mister...

[Anonymous Coward]

ah a gay joke, didn't see that coming

Re:Stay Away From My Bum, Mister...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's still a gay-sounding name, the sort of operating system you expect to find in certain bath houses.

Very funny. I got a good laugh out of that comparison today at school on the playground too.

RELEASE THIS!

[Anonymous Coward]

(_|_)

RC is the new pre-alpha?

[Anonymous Coward]

major new features (some of which are not yet implemented in this release candidate)

How does that work?

Re:RC is the new pre-alpha?

[man_of_mr_e]

Yeah, I don't get it either.

Release cycles have changed a lot in the last 10 years or so. With the advent of iterative software development cycles, you can often times get betas that are not feature complete (the idea is to test the iteration cycles that are complete) but a release candidate should be feature complete most definitely.

Re:RC is the new pre-alpha?

[pieleric]

I'm using this version right now and the only listed feature that seem missing is the hybrid suspend mode. IIRC, this feature is mostly implemented but there is still a little more work required. All the other features seem already here, excepted of course gnome 2.20 which is currently 2.19.92!

So, no this is not a pre-alpha version ;-)

Re:RC is the new pre-alpha?

[Daimanta]

Simple, they integrate new features but they won't make it available. For example, Firefox 3.0alpha has the possibility of page zooming, the problem is that there is no interface to control it. -.-

Re:RC is the new pre-alpha?

[Goaway]

Well, since "alpha" turned into "beta" and "beta" turned into "release candidate", I guess it's only to be expected that the process would continue. I wonder what new category we will need to make up next.

I nominate "gold master" for the new "beta"!

Re:RC is the new pre-alpha?

[Anonymous Coward]

The marketroid mindset is increasingly prevalent in the open-source world these days. Mozilla publishes misleading statistics in their press releases and drops features to meet deadlines. Slackware skips version numbers to "keep up" with the competition. And people abuse the terms "alpha", "beta" and "release candidate" to mean what they want them to mean rather than something sensible.

People who are thinking of labelling something a "release candidate", ask yourselves one question: if major new bugs aren't found with it, would you be comfortable simply renaming it to be the final version? No? Then it isn't a release candidate!

Re:RC is the new pre-alpha?

[AdamWill]

Honestly, I've been copying and pasting the same release announcement since Beta 1 and I forgot to take that bit out. :)

Almost everything on that page is now included. However, it's true to say that Mandriva RCs are not really true release candidates - they're not builds that we honestly believe could be the final release unless someone finds a bug (well, the *last* one usually is, for 2007 Spring that was RC3, for instance). They should really be considered more as late betas. We didn't even hit version freeze yet (it's tomorrow). It's always been this way with MDV, it's a bit odd but we're used to it...:)

Re:RC is the new pre-alpha?

[AdamWill]

As I mentioned, in our defense, we've been doing it this way for *years*. Mandriva - ahead of the curve as always! ;)

Re:RC is the new pre-alpha?

[Anonymous Coward]

Slackware skips version numbers to "keep up" with the competition.

Yeah, but wasn't that done as a joke?

Re:RC is the new pre-alpha?

[Petrushka]

So, to summarise your post: there is a feature missing; therefore it is not pre-alpha. Well, OK, if that premise necessarily implies that conclusion for you, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and back away slowly and quietly.

Just to clarify, it is surely obvious that this is not an RC but an alpha version. "Alpha" is after all the standard way of denoting "not feature complete". That's what "alpha" means.

I trust no one is going to claim that "one feature missing" = RC. RC should mean "finished in absolutely every conceivable respect, and completely absolutely bug-free as far as we are able to tell (and believe us, we've tried), but we just want to make extra extra quintuply sure that there's nothing wrong before we really release for good". That is clearly not the case here.

Re:RC is the new pre-alpha?

[martin-boundary]

Well that's easy: it means that the package is already available on their servers and everything, but if you try to apt-get install any one of them, you get an error message "bash: apt-get: command not found". Nothing serious, they'll fix it eventually :)

Re:RC is the new pre-alpha?

[AdamWill]

actually, apt-rpm is in the Mandriva repos for anyone who feels like using it. As are smart and yum. :)

Re:RC is the new pre-alpha?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope. Slackware jumped from version 4 to version 7 because they didn't want to be perceived as being behind other distributions.

Re:RC is the new pre-alpha?

[Anonymous Coward]

The only feature missing is GNOME 2.20 which is not released yet. When it's released it will be in Mandriva. Why would you bash a perfectly good distro with this nitpicking is really beyond me.

Re:RC is the new pre-alpha?

[Clived]

Well I hope that they do a better job with the packages in the distro than they did with LE 2007. I have used Mandrake/Mandriva since ver 9.2 and up to LE 2006 thye were fantastic. Unfortunatley LE 2007 was a dogs breakfast with packages missing on the CDs (Free edition as well as Powerpack). I wasted a lot of time trying to get my network online, but kept running into problems such as being unable to find/load bind, dhcp and a few others. I am back running LE 2006 and am seriously contemplating moving over to Suse.

My two bits

Re:RC is the new pre-alpha?

[hawaiian717]

I trust no one is going to claim that "one feature missing" = RC. Microsoft did exactly that with the Vista release candidates. As I recall, Vista RC1 was released with the disclaimer that it wasn't feature complete, either.

Not that I'd accept "Microsoft did it" as an excuse.

Re:RC is the new pre-alpha?

[waferhead]

Re:RC is the new pre-alpha?(Score:2)
by hawaiian717 (559933) on Thursday September 06, @03:13PM (#20498069)
(http://www.quanterium.com/)

I trust no one is going to claim that "one feature missing" = RC.
Microsoft did exactly that with the Vista release candidates. As I recall, Vista RC1 was released with the disclaimer that it wasn't feature complete, either.

Not that I'd accept "Microsoft did it" as an excuse. Hell, Microsoft has always done that with shipping product, not just the RCs. ;-)

Re:RC is the new pre-alpha?

[Llamalarity]

LE 2007? I'm pretty sure that 2005 was the only Mandriva to be labled "L"imited "E"dition. I think because it was the first one designated by year and the last one under the original ~six month development cycle. Chewy Mandriva 2005LE on the outside, crunchy Mandrake 10.2 on the inside:) 10.1 - 2005LE - 2006 - 2007 - 2007.1

I just noticed something

[FoolsGold]

There's as much flaming for Mandriva as there is for Windows.

Not only do you HAVE to be a part of the Linux camp, but only for certain distros too it would seem. Slashdot really has gone backwards.

Re:I just noticed something

[Anonymous Coward]

WTF are you talking about? Where is the flaming for Mandriva?

Re:I just noticed something

[betterunixthanunix]

Welcome to UbuntuDot/SlashHat.

Re:I just noticed something

[Ironchew]

More like iSlash/Googledot.

Re:I just noticed something

[Anonymous Coward]

Welcome to group think. Also, if you don't toe the line, your opinion is inversely proportional to your user id.

Re:I just noticed something

[Anonymous Coward]

Selective perception. We remember negative posts more vividly, especially if they attack our positions.

Re:I just noticed something

[$pace6host]

I think you might be exaggerating a bit. /. hates Windows a whole lot more than it hates Mandriva. But it's not surprising that /. opinions reflect what http://distrowatch.com/ says - Ubuntu is #1 and Mandriva is #9. I just switched myself - Mandriva has been good from a user perspective, but has had repository / update problems in recent years. Maybe this will signal a turn around, but I'm probably not going to switch back unless I hear the repository problems are gone.

Re:I just noticed something

[Anonymous Coward]

I think it's just that a lot of us were burned by mandrake, back in the day.

Re:I just noticed something

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

I think it's just that a lot of us were burned by mandrake, back in the day. Indeed, burn me once, flame on you.
Burn me twice, I'm going ubuntu!

Re:I just noticed something

[UncleTogie]

...only if you believe in such...

Re:I just noticed something

[TheVelvetFlamebait]

I've just noticed something myself. Your account number is in the 1000000+ range, and you've made only 8 comments (at the time of my reading). Exactly what time period are you referring to when you say "Slashdot has really gone backwards"?

Re:I just noticed something

[baeksu]

That's GNU/UbuntuDot/SlashHat to you, mister!

Re:I just noticed something

[bmcage]

People are allowed to recount their experiences. Fact is, many people have used Mandriva (I did too a couple of years ago when it was Mandrake), but switched.

I develop for an OSS program (GRAMPS) that has version 2.2.8 out now, we get Mandrake bugs on version 2.3.6! I don't know who manages packaging there, but it is their Achilles heel. Urpmi drove me away, helping Mandriva users on our bug tracker (mostely french people lately) shows me the problems are still there.

Re:I just noticed something

[AdamWill]

[adamw@lenovo drbd-utils]$ urpmq -r gramps
gramps-2.2.8-1mdv2008.0
[adamw@lenovo drbd-utils]$

2007.1 (latest stable release) had 2.2.6, yes. That was probably the latest version when 2007.1 was released. 2.2.8 could be sent to /backports, but it depends if the maintainer chooses to...we don't backport *everything*. This is pretty normal, I don't know why you find it so terrible.

Re:I just noticed something

[bmcage]

I'm glad 2.2.8 will be in Mandriva 2008, and I don't mind that stuff is not backported. However, it is nice if you know how to help people and can tell them where to find third party builds. Ubuntu, Fedora, Suse have enough users that those are available.

See eg http://www.nabble.com/%22bug-report%22-tf4373448.h tml, it clearly lists:
Gramps version: 2.3.6-1 LANG: fr_FR.UTF-8OS: LinuxDistribution: 2.6.17-14mdv".

My search a while ago to find a more recent package turned up empty, so source installation it is for these people if the bug is solved in a more recent version. Our info on the wiki: http://www.gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title =Installation#Upgrading_to_the_latest_version gives the latest info we got from a user, but I don't think it is correct, and although we have a lot of users on Mandriva we tell to upgrade, none apparently get back to us on where to find alternative packages, or can write up an upgrade process (removing old version, installing source, correct path). I feel save recommending Ubuntu/Fedora/Suse: download install, and yes, I know it is the community that provides those packages, but that is just it, isn't it?

Also note the install path:
/home/mandrake/rpm/tmp/gramps-2.2.6-1mdv2007.1-bui ldroot/usr/share/gramps/GrampsDb/_GrampsBSDDB.py
I have seen that alot recently. This looks a strange path to me as a linux user, but then, I don't know the Mandriva system anymore.

Sorry you take this bad, but as an application developer, not a distro maker, I want my users to use the latest version instead of reporting old bugs to me. It's free after all, and having always the option of using the latest version is actually the one big benefit that linux offers. The requirement of constant upgrading the OS to get new versions or do source install otherwise, just doesn't work for the normal PC user.

Re:I just noticed something

[AdamWill]

That would suggest a bug in the build - that path is the temporary fake 'root' where files are installed during a Mandriva package build, and should never show up in the final package. I can't seen any such problem in the spec, though. If you give me more context I can figure out what happened.

The 2.3.6 thing I just fixed: there was a perl substitution command lying around in the spec to convert all occurrences of 2.2 to 2.3 in configure. I guess it was something from years ago to fix a Python 2.2 / Python 2.3 issue, or something. I've taken it out.

I'll push a build of 2.2.8 to 2007 Spring /backports, just for you. :) You can then just direct people to: http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/Docs/Basic_tasks/Insta lling_and_removing_software#Advanced_use:_Backport s_and_candidate_updates to enable the /backports repositories, and they will find 2.2.8 available (from tomorrow or so, it takes a few hours for packages to propagate out).

Re:Stay Away From My Bum, Mister...

[larry bagina]

I guess that's why no one uses it ... gnu/hippies hate to take baths.

The popularity of NSA bathroom sex linux is surprising, though.

Crikey

[werdz]

I read the headline first as "Microsoft Linux 2008 RC 1 Released" and nearly spat my tea out at my screen...

Re:Crikey

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, you obviously need to see an eye doctor ASAP!

Re:Crikey

[rts008]

Arghhh!!!

Now I have to go scrub my brain with bleach!

I hope this don't cause The Nightmares again. *pictures Bill Gates in a Tux, handing Penguin chairs (yes, also in Tuxes) to Steve Ballmer, who was....NOOOO!! Make It Stop!!!*

Yeah, maybe if I dilute the bleach with lye...that'll work!

Re:Crikey

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, Microsoft is working on Microsoft Linux 2008. Expect a shipping version early 2015.

Re:Crikey

[ceeam]

No, they use X.Y versioning scheme and are at 10.something currently ;)

Re:Crikey

[Tarlus]

Dunno... I'd pirate it.

We use it for a reason

[mackermacker]

Some of us have been using Mandriva since back in the day when the conversion happened (think Mandrake, not like any noobs remember that ol' thing). Mandrake was always Redhat on steroids. Mandriva followed the same path. It had so many apps that could be configured, easily, via http://easyurpmi.zarb.org/ . I run 4 linux distros, and I still like Mandriva. Debian and Suse fanboys, what's your rational? Some people like rpm package management, others apt-get. Fine, fair enough, to each his own. NO, I don't like the French either. And yes, mandriva has some serios issues when it comes to wireless cards (ndiswrappwer DOES NOT work unless you compile from source with almost any car other than a BCM4xxx chipset). Overall though, they do a decent job, unlike debian, which doesnt have all the apts available, and its a bitch to get the network set up on an alienware SLI graphics card setup. I won't defend the French, but fanboys piss me off.

Re:We use it for a reason

[jstomel]

Gods, I've been with Mandriva since it was Mandrake 8.0. It's still the best distro out there, with the possible exception of ubuntu. Mandriva makes linux painless. It is the anti-slackware.

Re:We use it for a reason

[AJWM]

Mandrake was always Redhat on steroids.

Yeah, with some of the analogous stability issues. That said, though, it was Mandrake that I recommended to a client when we were building some DV applications for them; Mandrake was the first distro to include the IEEE 1394 (Firewire) drivers, so at least I didn't have to walk them through rebuilding a kernel.

Re:We use it for a reason

[Anonymous Coward]

We used to use Mandrake at our small business. About a dozen or so systems between servers and desktops. Once we saw Kubuntu Edgy (now Feisty) and how well it worked on the desktop, we switched and haven't looked back. Mandrake is a very good distribution, but there are some hassles. Kde updates were slow to appear, online repositories were questionably reliable (we had to switch them occasionally as they became overloaded or quit updating), and other things. Finally, the merger of Mandrake and Connectiva seemed to slow them down even further, in terms of updates. I do hope Mandriva gets back in the saddle, so to speak. They remain one of the few distros that do a half-decent job of supporting KDE.

Re:We use it for a reason

[Anonymous Coward]

NO, I don't like the French either.

  It's a good thing you didn't disavow racial hatred, otherwise we'd think you weren't cool.

Re:We use it for a reason

[ladislavb]

NO, I don't like the French either.

This one sentence made your entire post utterly infantile. You don't like an entire nation??? Has every single person out of 60 million Frenchmen done something nasty to you so that you dislike them all?

Sorry for being off-topic, but I'll just never be able to understand how a rational, intelligent and Linux-using human being can make such statements of hatred on a public blog, which proudly displays his/her nickname and web site. Crazy...

Re:We use it for a reason

[Anonymous Coward]

To be fair, he could be posting his disagreement with the French government, rather than the French people.

After all, when people make the same generalizations about "Americans", that's the only way it makes any sense, and I don't see people getting modded up acting indignant about it. And I KNOW there would never be a double standard on Slashdot...

Re:We use it for a reason

[flyingfsck]

Half of Mandriva is based in Brazil, so you don't like the Porras either?

Re:We use it for a reason

[Anonymous Coward]

To be fair, he could be posting his disagreement with the French government, rather than the French people.

After all, when people make the same generalizations about "Americans", that's the only way it makes any sense, and I don't see people getting modded up acting indignant about it. And I KNOW there would never be a double standard on Slashdot...

  If someone blithely inserted "Of course, I hate Americans" into a discussion about Redhat, you know damn well he'd be modded to oblivion. Double standard, my ass.
  Hell, Mandriva is both French and Brazilian ever since the Conectiva merger, so it's not even an appropriate flamebait. He forgot to tell us about his theories on the bathing habits of the citizens of Rio de Janeiro, which is totally pertinent to the discussion of a linux distro. (/sarcasm)

Re:We use it for a reason

[Anonymous Coward]

I wish people would keep that in mind when they talk of actions and decisions made by government, as if those actions and decisions were actually made by the entire collection of unique thinking individuals which live under the rule of that government.

Let's call a spade a spade: the government and the people are NOT the same thing. That should be apparent now more than ever, as centralized powers around the world continue to consolidate power in their top-down systems which, by necessity, transfer power to the hands of the elite few.

Really, at what point will the average person come to accept this? How high must the pyramid of power get before its true colors are recognized?

Re:We use it for a reason

[empaler]

I read it as being the language. Which is ever-present in the versions of Mandrake I've played with.

Re:We use it for a reason

[Anonymous Coward]

Hell, Mandriva is both French and Brazilian ever since the Conectiva merger, so it's not even an appropriate flamebait. He forgot to tell us about his theories on the bathing habits of the citizens of Rio de Janeiro, which is totally pertinent to the discussion of a linux distro. (/sarcasm)

Only with photos.

Re:We use it for a reason

[Anonymous Coward]

Has every single person out of 60 million Frenchmen done something nasty to you so that you dislike them all? Nope! But every single one I've ever come into contact with has been a whining, arrogant ass. Also they keep electing whining arrogant asses into office. ALSO, they smell. Everyone in the fucking country. I've been there. Never going back.

Re:We use it for a reason

[Anonymous Coward]

I read it as being the language. Which is ever-present in the versions of Mandrake I've played with.

Funny, I used every single Mandrake release from 8.0 through 10.1 and never ran into text that wasn't properly translated into English.

  And what he said was "NO, I don't like the French either."

  Honestly, why is it that every time someone says something bigoted on slashdot, there's always a large contingent of people who jump up to provide all kinds of excuses, or else just blame everyone else for noticing that it was insulting? I don't get it.
  I often wonder if it's related to all the Libertarians on /., since I've noticed that the Libertarians I've met IRL have been really sheltered, really white guys with a complete tin ear for anything remotely connected to racism or social relations between different groups of people.

Re:We use it for a reason

[empaler]

I read it as being the language. Which is ever-present in the versions of Mandrake I've played with.

Funny, I used every single Mandrake release from 8.0 through 10.1 and never ran into text that wasn't properly translated into English.

And what he said was "NO, I don't like the French either."

Honestly, why is it that every time someone says something bigoted on slashdot, there's always a large contingent of people who jump up to provide all kinds of excuses, or else just blame everyone else for noticing that it was insulting? I don't get it.
I often wonder if it's related to all the Libertarians on /., since I've noticed that the Libertarians I've met IRL have been really sheltered, really white guys with a complete tin ear for anything remotely connected to racism or social relations between different groups of people.
Whoooah, calm down there. It's funny how you completely disregarded that I clearly wrote that I read it as being about the language, and went and used me as a straw argument for your view point. I did not blame anyone for anything, I just said that I read it differently. Hell, you're most likely right, but I clearly, unlike you, am not used to people saying stuff about not liking the French (being European, I'm more used to people disliking Americans). Please try to moderate yourself in the future; when you write posts like above it will most likely be regarded as flamebait.

As for Mandrake, it's been at least half a dozen years since I've seriously played with it; I can't remember more details than I've already provided as I discarded Mandrake back then. Maybe my memory serves me wrong? Maybe it was only when I was looking for specific documentation on their web page.

wouldn't load for me

[BigGuy]

Mandriva wasn't able to deal with my setup of a dual boot with Vista, Mepis and Kubuntu. It wanted to format the hard drive. Obviously this wont work. I had tryed the previous live version and was hoping this would work with wifi enabled on my laptop (hpPavilion dv9500) no luck with any of the distro's so far. Intel 4965 chipset.

Re:wouldn't load for me

[AdamWill]

2008 should work with that chipset (we have the iwl4965 driver included in the kernel). I *think* it ought to work in RC1, but I'm not entirely sure. Give the live version a shot when it comes out.

Re:wouldn't load for me

[Zero__Kelvin]

"Mandriva wasn't able to deal with my setup of a dual boot with Vista, Mepis and Kubuntu. It wanted to format the hard drive."

Mandriva 2008, like every version of Mandriva*, offers the option to format the drive, use an existing Windows partition, or partition the drive yourself, including on the fly NTFS (et. Al.) partition resizing. * The caveat is that you should only do it this way if you are a skilled Linux person, and you should not use the "Install from Live CD" option. It is known to work poorly. Download the 4 CD set or the single DVD .iso and install from that. On older Laptops you may need to pass "acpi=off noapic" to the kernel at boot time during the install if it hangs without them. And by the way, what you described is a TRIPLE-boot

Less advanced users should purchase one of the Powerpack or similar versions.

When I install Mandriva on a persons computer, they invariably are the happiest computer owners I have ever met, laptop or desktop. When someone who doesn't know the ins and outs of setting up the wireless card, how to install the dvdcss and win32 codecs (or indeed even that they need to), and graphics card issues with NVIDIA and ATI proprietary drivers tries to do it on the cheap, they get what they paid for, then they complain about Mandriva instead of citing their inexperience. Again, because it bears repeating, if you are not a highly skilled Linux person, buy the correct Mandriva version for your needs. If you try to do it on the cheap, make sure that you blame *yourself* rather than Mandriva when you cannot play FLASH, use Java, or connect with a wireless card, etc.

Finally for advanced Linux users new to Mandriva you need to know about the alt.os.linux.mandriva newsgroup and the Penguin Liberation Front repository which makes it easy to add the plf-free and plf-non-free repositories to your URPMI tools config file, etc.

Try it. You will like it. Either that or you ignored my advice, or you misclassified yourself as advanced when you really need to shell out the Cashish.

Re:wouldn't load for me

[Provocateur]

my setup of a dual boot with Vista, Mepis and Kubuntu.

Perhaps this is a new definition of 'dual' that they happen to be unfamiliar with

The truth hurts

[Anonymous Coward]

1999 called, they want their distro back.

Also the 1980s called, they want their joke templates back.

Also 1978 called, my mother is considering not getting pregnant after this disappointed display of tact. Sorry Mum, I would normally write more about how no one uses Mandrake anymore and reference distro statistics and the ugly desktop and how they don't involve the community like ubuntu or fedora but I can't be bothered with that and a dumb joke will have to do.

Actually

[obeythefist]

I like that they've called the product "2008"... in the larger OS world, where Linux is still a little fringey compared to Windows, anchoring the product to a time instead of a more abstract version number will make less savvy end users more comfortable with their understanding of the product.

This is a good move! More FOSS products aiming at the mass market should consider adopting a similar approach!

Re:Actually

[MightyMartian]

I like that they've called the product "2008"... in the larger OS world, where Linux is still a little fringey compared to Windows, anchoring the product to a time instead of a more abstract version number will make less savvy end users more comfortable with their understanding of the product.

This is a good move! More FOSS products aiming at the mass market should consider adopting a similar approach!

Agreed. We should put chrome condoms on and run around declaring "I'm the Big Meat 2008!"

Fuck, but I hate marketers.

Re:Actually

[jombeewoof]

Agreed that marketing people need to be shot. But maybe only in the leg. They do serve some purpose, even if they are total scum.

Think about it, if it weren't for some kind of marketing how would anyone know about anything?

Word of mouth? I don't think so. you can only get so many people talking about something they have never heard of, and you still have to get them to use it before they'll talk about it.

Taking only a non marketed approach would certainly get you a much smaller more community oriented group, but you would not have the full spectrum of users. You would have power users, and only power users.
If things were that way, we'd still be in 1998 and then where would we (the linux community) be?

Re:Actually

[obeythefist]

Hate them all you like, put them on the "B" Ark, whatever, but marketing makes or breaks a product and we all know it.

Look at Linux, it's free, it's competitive, but it's not marketed and it's not marketing driven, and you can tell by looking at it. It's starting to change, but the fact of the matter remains.

People do not want unmarketable products.

Re:Actually

[MightyMartian]

People do not want unmarketable products.

People are retarded rubes. That's why they deserved poisoned toys and toothpaste from China. Perhaps someday they'll throw all the marketers in the world in a boat and send them off to some far off land where evil liars are loved.

Re:Actually

[setagllib]

Ubuntu does this too, where 7.04 means "month 4 of year 2007". It's not very obvious.

Re:Actually

[imr]

anchoring the product to a time
You are so right. And it was really thought as a representation of the technical reality and timeline of the distro, not for pure marketing reasons.
Here is the complete story that is behind this names, if that interrests you...

The naming convention came from the switch to a one year release cycle for the 2006.
Since the distro was going to be there for one year, and since most of this year was going to be 2006, it made more sense to call it 2006 and have it called 2006 for 3 months in 2005 than the other way around.
The decision to switch to a one year cycle came from users requests for more stability.

Unfortunatly, this move, despite having been made at the users requests, wasnt a popular success. Just read the comments on this page and you will see that a lot of people want the last version of many apps as soon as possible. Which has some sense in the free software world where some apps just move so fast and sometimes a newer version means more stability.
So with the 2007.0 the distro came back to a 6 months cycle.

But some aspects of the one year cycle remained in order to have the best of both world and again, it had to be reflected in the naming convention.

So, 6 months later the 2007.1 was built from the 2007.0 with no revolutionnary change to its foundations (like kernel, glib, gcc) but instead with many improvements and polishings in the desktops, fixing all those little bugs that were so irritating with every mandrake/mandriva release up to now, and a lot of work has been put into improving the existing mandriva tools, like the package manager and now the connexion manager.
So the 2007.1 was a really stable yet up to date distro.

Another nice aspect of the distro since that time is the backporting infrastructure.
Since the distro was going to stay for one year, in 2006 a lot of work has been put into making the softwares from the development version available easily to the previous version of the distro through a process that should not be a burden for the contributors. So the distro was back to a 6 months cycle, but this infrastructure was and is still there, and now important fast evolving apps like firefox can be backported quicker, which was one of the complaints made often to the distro. (You can see the importance of backporting in MEPIS recent swith to debian).

So all this led to chosing a name that would convey the fact that the 2007.1 was very close to the 2007.0, an evolution in time: "2007 spring".

Take all that with a grain of salt, I'm managing the Mandriva french forums for Mandriva, but I'm coming from the mandriva community and it really is my distro of choice.

Re:Actually

[garett_spencley]

Ubuntu does this too, where 7.04 means "month 4 of year 2007". It's not very obvious.

You're right it's not obvious. I'm an old time Linux nerd who has worked as a *nix admin and reads /. on a daily basis etc. I know way more about Linux and *nix than most 'average users' would ever care to. I've been running Ubuntu for a few months now as all the hype got me really curious and I wanted to see just what kind of "inroads" they had been making on the desktop that has everyone talking.

Your post is what informed me that their version numbers were done this way.

Whether you agree with the parent or not regarding naming versions after dates aside, the fact that 7.04 translates to "April 2007" does not have a remotely similar effect and is absolutely no different, to end users, than any other major.minor versioning scheme.

I pretend mod your post +1 Informative and, at the same time, -1 Irrelevant.

Re:Actually

[rubycodez]

that's really going to get confusing when the year 3000 hits. like, do they go 1000.04, or do they suddenly kick in the millenium number like 999.10 -> 3000.04 Hope they get the patches for dist-update for this out in time

Re:Actually

[rubycodez]

and more importantly, what adjective and animal will that release be?

Re:Actually

[SoapDish]

Some distros, like gentoo and ark linux played it smart with versions of YYYY.? . They're future proof up to 9999 AD, and beyond!

Re:Actually

[Hucko]

Surely we are going to be changing soon to a new dating system? Maybe after WWIII, which by most foretellers is overdue.

Re:Actually

[setagllib]

Everybody knows that every mainstream operating system markets itself via a name. Leopard, Vista, Gutsy, whatever. The numbers are just a form of serialisation key.

tangent {

Apple has a similar problem, which is that their numbering will be exhausted soon, with 10.9 being the last 10.x release. Then they *have* to move to 11.x, and eventually it'll be 100 and no longer string-sort desirably. Who cares? Not I.

Microsoft has an even bigger problem, which is that their naming has always sucked. They used to use codenames but still tacked on varying combinations of numbers, letters and years. Now they just change the codename at the last minute, and release that as a product (WinFX, Longhorn, ...). Then in a few years they fix the product up to basic usability, by which point the 'trendy' name is even more bland. In the same sort of time span, would we really care to hear about "leveraging Windows 2000 technology"? Why is it ok if it's Vista instead?

} // tangent

Re:Actually

[rubycodez]

those are all pretty nice next to Sun, with Solaris naming they dropped the leading 2 after a while, Solaris 2.7 became 7 and 2.8 is 8, etc. and don't forget they retroactively called Solaris "SunOS 5", so Solaris 9 is really 2.9 and also known as SunOS 5.9 (which is at the top of the man pages)

Re:Actually

[rubycodez]

forgot the best part, that the old SunOS 4.x was renamed to Solaris 1.x

Re:Actually

[setagllib]

It could have been worse: MicroSun Inc. SolarOS 7.5.2.9 Gutsy Leopard Release Candidate (aleph-null)

Same boat...

[msimm]

I'd almost like to give it another shot, but I'm happily running Kubuntu on my laptop and really can't justify pulling a solid system to scratch that itch. To date, personally, Kubuntu and the rest of the Ubuntu family have the most cohesive feel to a Linux based distro I've known. Mandriva's user tools used to shine, but unless they've done something remarkable I just don't see much advantage. And the breakage in the last version (specifically the x86_64) left a very sour taste in my mouth. Maybe on day at work I'll pluck about with a spare server, but if Ubuntu can continue on it's current path I'm probably hooked. It feels like a system.

Re:Stay Away From My Bum, Mister...

[MightyMartian]

At least you weren't modded a troll by the no-humor idiots who seem to get all the mod points these days.

My complaint still stands. It's a lousy name for a distro. Not that Ubuntu is much better.

Happy Mandriva Desktop user here.

[Simple-Simmian]

I have been using Mandrake now Mandriva since way back in the day (before 7.2) and I value stability, I have run plenty of other distros but my Main desktop machine has been a Mandriva Box. 2007.1 is a great release, as good as my bench mark 9.2 was. 2008 may be as good. Since I use KDE and value stability I will stick with 2007.1 for a while on my main desktop. 2008 will go on an older machine. If it works well it will go on my Wife machine which is running Mahdriva 2006 and my secondary computer. IF you want bleeding edge you can get that from the cooker if you want stability you can get that from the Main distribution. Mandriva has improved a lot in the last two years. They are still French and all that entails but they have got much better and are almost back up to the level they were at in the Mandrake haydays. Mandriva just works for me.

Re:Happy Mandriva Desktop user here.

[flyingfsck]

France/Brazil actually, but Adam lives in Vancouver, eh!

Truth is Stability works for most people

[Simple-Simmian]

Mandriva is stable, if stability is a 1999 concept then I am all for it. I want an OS that just works. Mandriva satisfies that requirement for me.

Got Torrents??

[RobertLTux]

Or a mirror with some bandwidth (distrib-coffee is downish)

Re:Got Torrents??

[AdamWill]

Where are you?

In North America, I'd recommend ftp://carroll.cac.psu.edu/pub/linux/distributions/ mandrivalinux/devel/iso/2008.0/ . In South America, ftp://ftp.c3sl.ufpr.br/MandrivaLinux/devel/iso/200 8.0/ . In Europe, ftp://distrib-coffee.ipsl.jussieu.fr/pub/linux/Man drivaLinux/devel/iso/2008.0/ , or ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/os/Linux/distr/Mandrakelinu x/devel/iso/2008.0/ if that one's slow.

We don't do torrents for beta releases as the demand is not usually high enough to warrant it - the FTP mirrors usually cope with the demand easily.

Not trying to bash mandriva here

[Orthuberra]

But why is this on here, stuff like this is meant for distrowatch and linux.orgs news. If we had a news bulletin for every rc, beta, and official release, we'd be drowning in news items. Distrowatch.com already has 1-3 new release bulletins a day, and with 3-400 Linux distros out there, on top of the OS releases, we'd be drowning in threads. I can only troll so much.

Re:Not trying to bash mandriva here

[AdamWill]

They don't print a story for every rc, beta and official release. I should know, I've submitted a story for every 2008 beta / RC and this is the first one that got accepted. :D I think it depends on which editor reviews the story...and how nice they're feeling. It generally works out that I get a story printed for one pre-release and the final release for each cycle, which I think is about right in terms of not over-flooding. Of course, Ubuntu get a story posted every time they sneeze. Sigh.

Re:Not trying to bash mandriva here

[rubycodez]

mandrake -> mandriva is trying to come back after years of problems, so maybe this is a little more newsworthy than every point version increment of other distros. Mandrake was good awhile back, then with the problems I've since gone elsewhere (Debian for servers and Ubuntu for my desktop & laptop). Hope they come back to their former glory

Weeks after exploits available? I call BS

[vdanen]

5. Security updates would be made available weeks after exploits became known.

Care to provide some proof on that one? A general and very broad statement like that calls for some proof to back it up.

Unless you're referring to the kernel itself (which there were issues with, due to a certain kernel developer that's no longer with Mandriva), most (and I do say most... there are exceptions, just like any other distribution unless you're using Gentoo and can emerge the latest upstream version the moment it's released) updates were released in a very timely manner. Unless it was a "0-day" vulnerability, updates from Mandriva are more often than not released within ~24hrs of other major vendors if not earlier.

I'd love to get some proof on this one.

For all those who haven't tried Mandriva lately

[AdamWill]

For all those who haven't tried Mandriva in a while, quite a lot has changed. It'd be great if you could try Mandriva again before posting comments. For instance, managing remote repositories is far easier than it used to be: you can configure a full set of official repositories from within the Mandriva package management tools. Instructions are at http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/Docs/Basic_tasks/Insta lling_and_removing_software#Making_more_applicatio ns_available .

We've made big improvements in overall polish and stability since the releases that many people remember badly (2005, 2006). 2007 Spring looks much better, has far fewer package quality problems and runs more stably than those releases on most systems. 2008 will be better again, there's been a lot of work done on improving overall package quality, and it includes a very good and recent kernel build with very good hardware support. For instance, we have probably the best graphics card detection and configuration system in a major distro. I'm pretty sure that 99% of cards from major manufacturers (Intel, NVIDIA, ATI) will be correctly detected and configured in 2008. Our support for VIA / S3 (Uni)chrome chips (which are used on VIA's popular mini-ITx motherboards, for e.g.) is better than any other major distro to my knowledge.

Since 2007 Spring, we have a public non-free repository (that is configured when you set up repositories following the instructions above), so it's easy for anyone to get stuff like the NVIDIA and ATI proprietary drivers, Intel wireless firmware, Sun Java and so on. For instance, for the NVIDIA / ATI drivers, just enable the repository and then re-run the graphics card configuration tool, and it will give you the option of using the proprietary driver.

Since 2007, we have official /backports repositories (in 2007 Spring and later, these are configured when you set up repositories, but not enabled by default for stability; you can enable them with a single click in the repository configuration tool). These contain up-to-date versions of popular applications. For instance, the 2007 Spring /backports repositories have amaroK 1.4.7, Compiz Fusion (0.5.2), VirtualBox 1.5.0, k3b 1.0.3, pidgin 2.0.1 (will update to 2.1 soon), avant-window-navigator latest SVN, brasero 0.6.0, deluge 0.5.4.1, gimmie 0.2.7, jokosher 0.9, mediatomb 0.10.0, miro 0.9.8.1, ntfs-3g 1.516, powertop 1.3, seamonkey 1.1.4, smplayer 0.5.21, tovid 0.30, transmission 0.72 and a *huge* amount of other updated packages (these are just some examples I picked). These are not officially supported, but they *are* built in a clean environment on the official Mandriva buildsystem and all built against each other, so they represent a contiguous set of packages that you will never have trouble using together, which is far better than the case on many other distributions where you have to use dozens of single-purpose or tiny third party repositories that are unofficial, not necessarily cleanly built, and often conflict with each other. There's a couple of other distros with /backports repositories to my knowledge, including Ubuntu, but Mandriva's are far bigger than any other distro and include far more useful packages.

so, yes, Mandriva is changing, quite a lot in fact. It'd be great if you'd give us another chance with 2008, read up on the forums - http://forum.mandriva.com/ - and the Wiki - http://wiki.mandriva.com/ - and see if your issues aren't improved.

On the Bugzilla situation - N7DR is not at all wrong in his criticism as it relates to earlier times. During the 2008 release cycle, we created a Bug Squad and I was appointed Bugmaster. The Bug Squad now triages all bugs reported, which has helped immensely with the response rate and time for newer issues.

Re:For all those who haven't tried Mandriva lately

[mgkimsal2]

We've made big improvements in overall polish and stability since the releases that many people remember badly (2005, 2006). 2007 Spring looks much better, has far fewer package quality problems and runs more stably than those releases on most systems.

A problem with this is, and you probably are already aware, is that the 2005 release was touted as 'polished' and 'stable' and 'greatly improved' at the time as well. We've heard the spin before, and it'll probably take another couple releases before you win people back from Ubuntu and Fedora and whatever else people migrated to. Mandrake/Mandriva lost me in '05 (and I tried the '06 and '07 as well) for a few reasons.

1. Cutting edge packages were more readily available on other distros (php5, etc.).
2. To rectify #1, I tried to join the "club" on multiple occasions, and they could never process my US-based credit card. :(
3. Flaky admin tools. Every release we get more perl and python based GTK crap that is just broken out of the box. The *feel* of those tools was/is just horrid. Very nice to look at, but painful once you use them in the real world.

I've got a family member who's still with mandriva, and based on his view of '08, I might give it another shot, but there's little incentive to switch from kubuntu these days. The admin interfaces don't suck, I don't have to join a club, and the bulk of the current/new software I want is packaged for that distro.

Good luck with the Mandriva stuff though!

Re:For all those who haven't tried Mandriva lately

[Growlor]

I've been a Madrake/Madriva user off and on since version 6.0. Its the only commercial Linux distro I've used and most of the time I've been happy with it. When I went to select a Linux distro for my wife's notebook, I tried Ubuntu, Fedora and Suse's open release, but ended-up with Mandriva open (since I couldn't get any of the others to work with the wireless in it.) She has been pretty happy with it overall (the one issue was the lack of a power down option in the shutdown menu on the 64 bit version of 2007 open.) I liked it well enough to buy a full copy of 2007 for my PC (its what I am using now) and will likely get a copy of 2008 when it comes out. If I have one thing I'd ask you guys to look at it's your support and reference options on your web site. I don't know if its just me, but I have always struggled with finding things on your web site - something about the way things are organized just seems different than other web sites (maybe its a French language thing that doesn't translate well?)

Re:For all those who haven't tried Mandriva lately

[AdamWill]

Well, let me give you more concrete examples, then - during the 2008 development cycle, I personally have gone through and rebuilt almost every package (there's a few which simply can't be built any more, but over 95%) in the main repository with a mdk* release tag (indicating that it hasn't been built since Mandriva 2006 or earlier) or a 2007.0* release tag (indicating it hasn't been built since Mandriva 2007), making sure they build, run, and are compliant with our current packaging policies. This has never been done for any previous release. I'm hoping to get quite a lot of the 2007.1* packages (those that haven't been built since 2007 Spring) before we ship, too.

As I wrote in the post to which you're replying, we provide up-to-date packages in the /backports repositories. These aren't part of the Club, they're alongside all the other public repositories on the official mirror sites. The Club is not really used for providing packages any more, except for a very few packages that are non-free and that we cannot legally redistribute to the general public for license reasons (the most significant here are Flash and Acrobat Reader). You absolutely don't have to join the Club to use Mandriva: apart from that small group of packages, everything is available to non-Club members.

The admin tools are written in perl for a couple of reasons: it's what our coders know, it works, and we have a rather neat system which lets us write the tools once and have them work in both graphical and console (curses-based) mode. Rewriting them all in some other language and toolkit would be a lot of work for no real return.

I find they generally work pretty well. If you find problems in them, please do file bug reports. We do fix the bugs, honest. :)

Thanks for the good luck wishes.

Re:For all those who haven't tried Mandriva lately

[AdamWill]

Oh, and I forgot to mention: we've had a PHP5 package since release 10.1:

http://sophie.zarb.org/rpmfind?mversion=10.1&searc h=php5&st=fuzzyname&submit=Submit+Query&qcount=20

10.1 came out in October 2004.

Re:For all those who haven't tried Mandriva lately

[Manilal]

A problem with this is, and you probably are already aware, is that the 2005 release was touted as 'polished' and 'stable' and 'greatly improved' at the time as well. We've heard the spin before, and it'll probably take another couple releases before you win people back from Ubuntu and Fedora and whatever else people migrated to. Mandrake/Mandriva lost me in '05 (and I tried the '06 and '07 as well) for a few reasons. Having gone through a lot of Mandriva releases (every since 6.0 or something), I concur that 2005 had quite a few annoyances. It felt that Mandriva wasn't going forward as much it used to. However, overall quality and user experience has improved tremendously with the latest releases (particularly 2007.1). FWIW, the 2008 improvements address exactly what I thought were the last major weak points:

• repository management
• although quite usable, somewhat cumbersome network management tools
• deprecated crypto

Not to mention the long list of huge improvements (better to read the full list), particularly in the laptop support dept.: tickless kernel (sure you can recompile but this is mainstream), improved suspend (already much better in 2007.1), improved wireless...

This is probably true for Linux in general, but in the past year and a half it has really felt like Mandriva has been quickly converging toward an unusually polished state. IMHO, Adam Williamson is right when advising not to post based on previous impressions.

Re:For all those who haven't tried Mandriva lately

[noddyxoi]

Just 2 suggestions for the Mandriva crew. 1) couldn't you drop urpmi to use smart instead ? i find smart to be great and would also be a contribution to the linux community in general, while urpmi is great but only works for Mandriva. This logic applies to other Mandriva only packages. I guess you're thinking too local (Mandriva only) and you could think global (Linux). 2) make ZSH default instead of BASH and put allot of code completion and smart stuff there, i know my command line experience is great thanks to ZSH. That is all, thanks for making linux possible for me, those ubuntu kids don't known what they are missing. A linux user since Mandrake 7.

Re:For all those who haven't tried Mandriva lately

[noddyxoi]

PS: wanna buy another distro like you did with connectiva ? buy Sabayon.

Re:For all those who haven't tried Mandriva lately

[gosand]

For all those who haven't tried Mandriva in a while, quite a lot has changed. It'd be great if you could try Mandriva again before posting comments. For instance, managing remote repositories is far easier than it used to be: you can configure a full set of official repositories from within the Mandriva package management tools. Instructions are at http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/Docs/Basic_tasks/Insta lling_and_removing_software#Making_more_applicatio ns_available .

Well, I haven't tried it in a while.. and to be honest, I probably won't. No ill feelings, just that the timing wasn't right.

I was a RedHat user from 6.2 to 7.3. I stayed on that release a long time... too long. My system was flaky, I couldn't get some apps to run, I was in dependency hell. So it was a fresh install. I tried out SuSE, it was just OK. I ended up with Mandrake. Loved it. But after a couple of years, it got stale. I ended up in dependency purgatory. The package management of Mandrake just didn't deliver. Some things just didn't work quite right - usb devices like my camera weren't automatically recognized and mounted. I don't mind tinkering in the least (remember, I said I used to run RehHat 6.2) but the tinkering was getting in the way of getting things done.

So I went on a quest for a different distro, and found one that so far has been excellent. Kubuntu has been good to me for the most part. There's been some glitches here and there, but it is the best distro I have used. I am all for trying other distros for fun, but it would be hard for me to switch to be honest. Right now, it is easier for me to maintain my stable, up-to-date system than it is to switch to a new one.

Re:For all those who haven't tried Mandriva lately

[Anonymous Coward]

Ahhm, people post about Windows based on their 10 years old impressions, why would Mandriva be different? Usual Slashdot fanboys, I guess.

Hold the Front Page

[Anonymous Coward]

A second tier linux distribution have announced a release candidate! The final version could be out in a couple of months!

Stop the fucking presses!

Re:Hold the Front Page

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry but it will be out no later than October. Mandriva is pretty damn slick truth be told.

Are these guys still in business ???

[HW_Hack]

I guess at least they haven't capitulated to Bill the Beast Master

About to swap to Ubuntu myself

[funkdancer]

I'm about to swap to Ubuntu myself. I've been using Mandriva as a paying Silver member for years, but every time I want to go to the next major version [because I can't easily get updates for the old] I've pretty much had to start from scratch. The package / update management is just too hard; I'm running I think a Club/Xmas Edition Mandriva 2007 and whilst I was ok compiling e.g. KTorrent, getting something like Firefox 2.0 installed was a major PITA for my experience level. Everyone had moved up to the next point release and I couldn't find packages for the old.. they were supposed to be there, but the Mandriva Club website was just much work.

So just got a new Q6600 to become my main Vista workstation; my old SC AMD64 will thus have Ubuntu installed for the primary reason of the good stuff I've heard about package management. Also ability to update between major versions is a huge bonus.

Re:About to swap to Ubuntu myself

[AdamWill]

I suspect you're actually running 2006 - that's the version that had an Xmas edition, and 2007 has Firefox 2.0 available as an official update.

2006 is really too old to be supported now. We have a 12-18 month support cycle. It's worth noting that Ubuntu's cycle is just the same, except for LTS releases. I expect you wouldn't have too much luck finding packages for two year old Ubuntu releases, either.

Re:About to swap to Ubuntu myself

[funkdancer]

My current version is the Official 7.0 release...

[root@linuxgutt etc]# more mandriva-release
Mandriva Linux release 2007.0 (Official) for i586
[root@linuxgutt etc]# uname -a
Linux linuxgutt 2.6.17-5mdv #1 SMP Wed Sep 13 14:32:31 EDT 2006 i686 AMD Athlon(tm) GNU/Linux

The issue for me is that there doesn't seem to be an official upgrade path other than a complete reinstall to go from the previous major version to the next? Or am I missing something completely here? Maybe I'm just in the "dumb" category, but the Club website certainly doesn't make it easy.

It would be nice if when paying for the silver service if it actually "worked", e.g. told me the appropriate mirrors for my install and actually did what I thought it was meant to do. I don't want to keep on top of what the latest quarter release is at any old time, I do however want to be told what to do to keep in the update loop. This could very well be managed in a version tracker that links to the customer profile.

I've probably put down about $600 over the last 4-5 years as a support member - (probably more than I've paid for my WinXP Pro OEM and Vista Home Premium OEM licenses ;] ), I don't mean to winge about it and hope they've been able to put it to some good use.

However in Ubuntu it just looks extremely easy:
http://www.ubuntugeek.com/upgrade-ubuntu-610-edgy- eft-to-ubuntu-704-feisty-fawn-2.html

I also just noticed that Ubuntu offers "LTS" long term service editions that put them alongside Windows release cycles; this would be perfect for people like me... however the Ubuntu updater looks easy enough that I probably wouldn't need it.

(If Mandriva could offer an update manager like what I'm seeing in the Ubuntu link above then I'd stay on.)

Re:About to swap to Ubuntu myself

[AdamWill]

To keep a stable release up to date with security and bug fixes, you simply need to run MandrivaUpdate regularly - nothing more than that.

You can indeed upgrade from a previous version to a later one. Simply download the later version (you need one of the regular installer editions - Free, Powerpack or Powerpack+ - not One), boot the installer, and you will be given the choice of a fresh install or upgrading your old installation.

Upgrading from 2007.0 (which you have) to 2007 Spring (A.K.A. 2007.1, the current stable release) generally goes very well, from the reports I've seen.

You can also do an 'Ubuntu-style' upgrade simply by using a mirror finder like Easy URPMI - http://easyurpmi.zarb.org/ - to configure repositories for 2007 Spring, then either using rpmdrake's facility to upgrade all available packages, or using this command at a console as root:

urpmi --auto-update -v

However, the installer is able to resolve conflicts and migrate settings that this method sometimes is not, so we recommend less technical users and those who just don't want hassle to use the installer upgrade rather than the urpmi / rpmdrake upgrade option.

Mandriva is the best yet

[MichailS]

I'm not an expert, but I have tried a dozen different distros in many version numbers over the last 9 years, and I keep coming back to Mandrake/iva (and Windows 2000). All end up broken within a week. Last time I tried, ubuntu kept throwing out my nvidia drivers between reboots, and I could not get it to record sound through the TV card from a VHS player.

Mandriva is the most polished and user friendly of all I have seen. It is not perfect, sometimes apps crash and I keep finding coredumps in strange places, but Drakxconf makes me forgive a lot. It's what Windows Control Panel should have been.

Some complain about package repositories. They do tend to disappear and you will have to check the box for another instead. Big deal. also, I have yet to encounter a generic RPM or tarball that has not worked well enough on Mandriva. If there were no Mandriva version of a software, any Red Hat or Fedora usually did the trick. I have had more problems with .deb than with .rpm over the years.

Re:Mandriva is the best yet

[AdamWill]

You can disable core dumps entirely by sticking a line like this in /etc/security/limits.conf (or just uncomment the one that's there already, most likely):

* soft core 0

Re:Mandriva is the best yet

[Hatta]

I'm not an expert, but I have tried a dozen different distros in many version numbers over the last 9 years, and I keep coming back to Mandrake/iva (and Windows 2000). All end up broken within a week.

I wonder what common factor in all these experiences could be causing breakages. Hmmmm...

Re:Mandriva is the best yet

[fschmeisser]

I'm looking forward to the stable release. After using SuSE, various versions of (K)(X)Ubuntu, MEPIS, Linux Mint I settled on PCLinuxOS 2007 as my favorite distro, which is Mandriva-based. It's very polished, looks great, and is stable.

Mandriva is a great distro.

[12357bd]

I' ve been using mandriva on desktops and servers for years, and the progress has been quite noticeable. Frankly the 2007 version is almost as good as it can be (to my needs), not a single problem with repositories (easyurpmi website), 64 bit system/packages without a glitch.

Everyone has his own distro preferences, true, but i feel it's important to support such a great work.

Re:Hopefully; Tinky Winky, Dipsy, Laa-Laa and Po

[Anonymous Coward]

just maybe because http://www.flickr.com/photos/glagla/54320180/in/se t-1177687/

those frenchies...

My first distro ...

[Anonymous Coward]

... Was ZipSlack, you insensitive clod!

Sorry, not for me

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't bring myself to try a distro whose name sounds dangerously close to "mangina"

I'm glad we have Ubuntu, also.

[backwardvisionary]

I've started with Mandrake 7.2, just to make better use of my h/w (and my time, and my brain!) than I could have done with Windows 98 at this time. Then upgraded to 8.0 , 9.0, 9.1, 10.0, 10.1, 10.2 "2005", 2006, now on 2007.

I also tried Suse/Novell but gave up, saw Debian (actually still using it on my Alumni website server) but left it to students with time, and saw Ubuntu and left it to my older brother who liked it as his small business laptop OS.

I'm glad we have Ubuntu, it seems to make Linux desk/laptops more widely popular which is beneficial to all Linuxes. I leave it for others as Mandriva 2007 fully satisfies my laptop needs of wireless browsing, website hosting, photo management, disc space management (the disk space view of file manager Konqueror is what I most badly miss on Windows !), secure e-mail & browsing, daily file backup, virus-free and unbeatable uptime, multi-lingual writing, etc ... For free. Oh, I forgot to mentions usages ... I could not mention publicly without obfuscating some kind of minority audience ;)

But Mandriva, who is mostly funded by its server offer in French government offices needs a competitor to keep bringing quality releases on lap/desktops and Ubuntu plays perfectly this role, at least for now.

from a recent Windows user who switched

[Jess (geek-chick)]

My Vista laptop was frustrating me with its freezing and blue screens (driver issues!) and I wanted to try something different. I did try Ubuntu, but found that Mandriva was easier for me to adapt to using. As an IT worker who deals with Windows and fixing problems all day, I just wanted to go home and have my personal computer Just Work(TM), so I didn't have to spend almost my whole waking time trying to fix computer problems. I do have a hubby and 1.5 year old who also need my attention! Anyway, the install went great, even getting the wireless working was just a matter of pointing to the correct .ini file for my model of wireless adapter. The only problems I've had were getting qComic working (turns out I had to install unrar for it to read the file types I had) and figuring out other Linux specific things I'm just not used to. My next project, when I have time, is to get Civ IV running under Wine. I found a great how-to, and it looks easy, just a few steps. I still have to use my XP desktop for a couple of things, mostly to synch my Nike+ Nano data and for iTunes. But my long term goal is to strip out the DRM from the few songs I bought there and use my laptop exclusively. Although I'll still have to use the desktop for the Nike+ stuff, it will be just my backup/file storage machine. Long story short, I hope the next distro of Mandrake does keep impressing me.

what is wrong with this statement?

[Anonymous Coward]

...A guide to major new features (some of which are not yet implemented in this release candidate)...

Umm, how can it be a major new feature if it is not yet implemented?

Sheesh!

[Hucko]

That's MSGNU/UbuntuDot/SlashHat

How long can we go on?

Mandriva has a flawed installer

[rastoboy29]

I have installed Linux distros hundreds of times, and dozens of distributions (literally), but the recent Mandriva's are far too challenging for me.  What seems to be the problem is a forced net-based install where you have to choose a repositorty and live or die by it.  The sucker may go fine for a while, and then it slowly dies, and you have to start all over again.

Either that, or I'm too dumb to figure out which ISO I'm supposed to download.  That isn't very clear, either, in their repositories.

I do seem to be able to install Fedora, RHE, Ubuntu, slack, zenwalk, suse, and even vector linux just fine, though.  I'm sure the problem is me!

Re:Mandriva has a flawed installer

[AdamWill]

The installation of Mandriva is not solely (or even by default) internet-based, so I think you probably are downloading the wrong ISO - I suspect you're using either boot.iso (which is simply a bootstrap for a hard disk / network based install) or the Mini ISO (which is a very minimal single CD intended as a base for futher customization).

The editions we recommend for the general public are Free - a full disc-based distribution on a single DVD - and One - a full live distribution on a single CD (there are KDE and GNOME versions) which can also be installed to the hard disk. With either of these editions, you do not need to use a remote repository to do the installation, it's fully self-contained. If you're a Club member, you can also get the Powerpack edition, which is also a complete and self-contained distribution.

You certainly don't need to re-install if you find you're having trouble with your repositories. You can just use the repository configuration tool - 'Select from where software packages are downloaded when updating the system' in the Mandriva Control Center - remove the troublesome repositories, and click the 'Add...' button to add new ones.

http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/Docs/Basic_tasks/Insta lling_and_removing_software contains a lot of useful information on installing software and managing repositories in Mandriva.