2007 Hugo Award Winners Announced

jX writes "This year's Hugo Award Winners have been announced at the recently launched Hugo Award official website. Some winners that should be familiar to any well read/watched geek are Vernor Vinge for Best Novel, Doctor Who for Best Dramatic Presentation, Short Form), and last years hit movie Pan's Labyrinth for Best Dramatic Presentation, Long Form. Of course, a complete list of this year's nominees and winners is also available."

Comments

You mean...

[Anonymous Coward]

the 2006.667-2007.667 Hugo Award?

Re:You mean...

[savala]

No. The 2007 Hugo is for a book published in 2006. (Although there's some leeway for which date to pick for books which were first published outside the USA.)

Pan's Labyrinth

[lastninja]

The Pale Man sequence in Pan's Labyrinth, scared the living shit out of me. A must see movie.

Re:Pan's Labyrinth

[Don_dumb]

Pan's Labyrinth, quite simply (for me) the best film since the turn of the millennium. No other film has so much and ties it together so well, both brutal with the viewer and the most wonderful climax (which I wont spoil)

It's such a shame that so many people wont watch it just because it is subtitled. I have friends who actually say that subtitles are "too much work"

Re:Pan's Labyrinth

[Briareos]

Am I the only one to think that every movie that was nominated besides Pan's Labyrinth was a lot better and should've won instead?

In my book, Pan's Labyrinth was a jumbled, incoherent mess of a story that ultimately went nowhere. Sorry, but WW2 war stories and that kind of fairy tale fantasy just don't mix well, and Pan's Labyrinth was hopping from being one to the other all the time and in the end fell flat on both accounts.

All the other movies at least told their story well, but when I watched Pan's Labyrinth in the cinema it was just one big "Huh?" distributed over 2 hours. Granted, it wasn't "Night Watch" *shudder* bad, but bad nonetheless... :(

(And scary? What the freak was scary about it?)

np: Señor Coconut Y Su Conjunto - Showroom Dummies (Cha-Cha-Cha) (El Baile Alemán)

Re:Pan's Labyrinth

[stjobe]

I have friends who actually say that subtitles are "too much work"

Let me guess: You're American, right?

Re:Pan's Labyrinth

[Anonymous Coward]

Am I the only one to think that every movie that was nominated besides Pan's Labyrinth was a lot better and should've won instead?

Yes.

Re:Pan's Labyrinth

[Anonymous Coward]

I heard people were put off because it was called "Pan's" and had nothing to do with Peter Pan. Maybe the should of called it "Fawn's ...".

Re:Pan's Labyrinth

[PopeRatzo]

Granted, it wasn't "Night Watch" *shudder* bad,

You had me, then you lost me.

Re:Pan's Labyrinth

[Interlocutor de Anim]

Reading your comment makes me think you didn't watch the movie, at least not completely. The movie is brutal (there is a scene that almost make me puke, when the captain attacks a civilian with a bottle, it was horrible). Spanish is my native language, maybe that's why I was able to follow the movie from beginning to end, it was like poetry.

Re:Pan's Labyrinth

[Anonymous Coward]

This movie was highly recommeded to me by a friend. Perhaps my expectations were too high - I came away with a pretty strong dislike for the movie. YMMV.

Re:Pan's Labyrinth

[Don_dumb]

British, as much as we scorn at American culture, we aren't much better. If at all.

Re:Pan's Labyrinth

[Don_dumb]

Am I the only one to think that every movie that was nominated besides Pan's Labyrinth was a lot better and should've won instead?

In my book, Pan's Labyrinth was a jumbled, incoherent mess of a story that ultimately went nowhere. Sorry, but WW2 war stories and that kind of fairy tale fantasy just don't mix well, and Pan's Labyrinth was hopping from being one to the other all the time and in the end fell flat on both accounts.
You're not thinking at all, it was about the Spanish civil war, not WW2. So I would assert that the film was intellectually above you. I am not going to explain why the two stories make sense together because that would spoil the film for those who are just reading this thread. But I suggest you read the imdb.com summaries.

Re:Pan's Labyrinth

[cygnusx]

> Spanish is my native language, maybe that's why I was able to follow the movie from beginning to end, it was like poetry.

I don't speak Spanish and my only other Spanish-language film has been Y Tu Mama Tambien, but I can tell you that you didn't need to understand Spanish to get the poetry of Pan's Labyrinth.

For the first ten minutes I thought it was going to be a Narnia-wannabe, and then I realized that this fairy-tale was fucked up, and I saw what the director was doing counterposing the equally fucked up real world against the fairy tale (note: this film doesn't do PG-13 action scenes. You *will* feel disturbed watching some of the real world action unless you are borderline psycho.) Still, it was a fairy tale, I reasoned, and happily waited for the happy ending. It never came. Or did it? The fairy tale did end happily after all -- the princess went back to her father and lived happily ever after. How the viewer chooses to understand this is his own business, but the cognitive dissonance created in this film is par excellence.

And oh -- the sparingly used monsters in this film are *way* more intense than the relatively bland CGI creatures being turned out by Hollywood (see for example Narnia and now The Golden Compass).

And this doesn't even begin to cover the talented actors, especially Ivana Baquero, and the excellent music.

I do realize this film isn't for everyone -- it requires the viewer to connect emotionally with the characters on-screen. But the director makes it really, really easy to do this given the quality of the work.

Re:Pan's Labyrinth

[Briareos]

You're not thinking at all, it was about the Spanish civil war, not WW2.

Whoops. Then again, I'm not Spanish and you don't hear much about their civil war(s?) around here. And gee thanks for equating mixing up wars with "not thinking"... >:(

np: Kraftwerk - Numbers (Minimum-Maximum (Disc 2))

Re:Pan's Labyrinth

[SETIGuy]

You're not thinking at all, it was about the Spanish civil war, not WW2.

I'm not sure what movie you were watching, but it was "about" the trauma women (or at least some of them) go through when losing their virginity. The whole Spanish civil war + mythical beings thing was there to make you think it was about something else.

Or did you miss the giant representation of the female reproductive system on the movie poster?

Although I can understand how the point might be lost on the slashdot crowd.

Re:Pan's Labyrinth

[Anonymous Coward]

Let me guess: You're a douchebag, right?

Re:Pan's Labyrinth

[Interlocutor de Anim]

Just for reference, this is the Pan that is not Peter Pan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_(mythology) Pan (Greek , genitive ) is the Greek god of shepherds and flocks, of mountain wilds, hunting and rustic music: paein means to pasture. He has the hindquarters, legs, and horns of a goat, in the same manner as a faun or satyr.

Re:Pan's Labyrinth

[Interlocutor de Anim]

The language used was not the Spic language, it was the Spanish Language, keep in mind that wars are bought based on idiots, like Bush, Americans are so stupid they still think they can win in Iraq.

Re:Pan's Labyrinth

[jalagl]

I think it was actually "about" how spain lost its innocence during the civil war, using woman's suffering and the girl's imagination (denial?) as an analogy. It is still kinda what you mention, innocence == virginity.

It is one of my favorites movies from the past few years. Children of Men was great as well.

Re:Pan's Labyrinth

[Evil Pete]

Pan's Labyrinth is about a lot of things. I found it truly amazing. It is about growing up. About sacrifice ... and not the pretend type we often see in movies but pain, torture and death with no guarantees about the outcome. About the monsters we construct in our fantasy to teach about the real monsters that walk in human form. The movies is a bit like the yin-yang, you're never sure if it is a fantasy referring to real events, or a child's escapist delusions during real horrors ... there is evidence in the movie for both interpretations.

I found this a disturbing movie. It is fantasy and yet it is a little too real, I just can't bring myself to show it to my teenage sons ... and I thought they were too hardened by some movies they have seen. The only other movie that makes me feel that way is "Grave of the Fireflies".

I do agree about the poster. There is a strong theme about growing up, both mentally and sexually. I probably need to see it a few more times because of its complex themes.

Re:Pan's Labyrinth

[Reziac]

Guess they won't be watching The Seventh Seal either, will they... Do they read the balloons in comics? :)

(I haven't seen Pan's Labyrinth, not being much of a moviegoer at all... but thanks to all for the reviews/comments .... now I think I ought to see it. :)

Re:Pan's Labyrinth

[SETIGuy]

I think it was actually "about" how spain lost its innocence during the civil war, using woman's suffering and the girl's imagination (denial?) as an analogy. It is still kinda what you mention, innocence == virginity.

Pseudospoiler alert:

Since it was written for a Spanish audience, I think you have it backwards. What followed the Spanish civil war, through the end of the Franco regime in 1974, is still fairly fresh in Spanish memories, while any memories of prior innocence are long gone. I think it was taking a trauma everyone (in Spain, at least) had some experience of, and linking it to the (unshared) trauma of an out of wedlock pregnancy and the subsequent decision to sever all ties with the father. Ofelia and Mercedes are two aspects of the same person (the virgin girl, the strong woman). Ofelia gives up "her kingdom" to "some little prick she hardly knows" which eventually results in the death of the girl and the birth of the woman. Ofelia dies, which gives Mercedes the strength to kill the baby's father and tell him that his son will never know his name.

Re:Pan's Labyrinth

[Don_dumb]

Sorry, yes I meant 'set in the Spanish Civil War' as opposed to 'about'. Personally I felt it was most about the way that a young girl deals with an incredible trauma and stress. But that is great film making - it has more than a single subject.

Re:Pan's Labyrinth

[troicstar]

Just watched it to see why it got the Hugo award. I loved the movie, but I wouldn't associate it with sf,

tbh I don't think there was much out there to choose from tho.

For those of you

[saibot834]

who did not know what the Hugo Award was (like myself): Wikipedia article.
Basically it is an award for the best science fiction or fantasy work.

Re:For those of you

[Anonymous Coward]

who did not know what Slashdot was (like myself): Wikipedia article.
Basically it is a website disseminating "News for nerds".

Re:For those of you

[gkhan1]

One should also mention the Nebula, which is the other major sci-fi-award. Winning both the Hugo and the Nebula is the grand slam of sci fi, and the list of those who did it is an austere one. Some novels go even further and wins the Hugo, the Nebula and the Philip K Dick Award. That's sci-fi royalty, that is.

Rainbows End

[savala]

I read Vernor Vinge's Rainbows End last year, and wrote the following about it:

I expected it to be good, but it's gone way far above and beyond any expectations I harboured. Everything it did, it did perfectly right. The people living this story have become gloriously real, the story captivated me more and more with each passing chapter (building up to an awesome conclusion), there were real emotions, chillingly shocking and yet hopeful visions of the future as it could be, and through it all, the sense that everything in this book was written by someone who really knows what he's talking about.

The technology predictions in this book won't stand the test of time. Two years from now they'll still be valid, but five years from now they'll already be decidedly quaint. Still, as someone very famous once said, science fiction isn't about the future, it's about the present. And I think there's very few people who understand the present as well as Vinge does. And I can pretty much guarantee that even when the technology predictions are considered not just quaint but hilariously outdated, this book will still be read and enjoyed - simply because it's an awesome book with an awesome story.

You're looking at the clear winner of next year's Hugo and Nebula Awards.

Ok, so I was wrong about the Nebula. Can't win them all. :)

I can also highly recommend this book to everyone here at slashdot. It's the kind of book most of us will be able to relate to. A book by a geek who understands not only technology, but also the social implications thereof.

Re:Rainbows End

[aldheorte]

Vernor Vinge's best book is Marooned in Realtime, closely followed by A Deepness In The Sky. I have not read the other books that were nominated, so I cannot say how they compare relatively, but Rainbow's End was a rather unorganized, disjointed, and mundane book in comparison to his others. It didn't really have a clear plot line because one plot line about old codgers pissed off about destructive digitization of books just happened upon another plot line by blind chance. The connection was really forced. The haptics technology was interesting, but not mind-blowing. I guess it's to his credit to win the Hugo with an off book.

My advice would be to read the other books I cited before you read Rainbow's End so that it doesn't turn you off from his more impressive works, which are excellent.

Re:Rainbows End

[IdahoEv]

I expected it to be good, but it's gone way far above and beyond any expectations I harboured.

That's funny, because I am a HUGE fan of Vernor Vinge's and I was fairly unimpressed by Rainbow's End. I was really surprised that it won. Give that I've never heard of the competing books or authors, I just assumed it was a slow year.

The novel's setting was a fascinating and well-crafter vision of the hyper-info-technologized world of (~2030): I will give it that. But the characters were IMHO unsympathetic and most of the plot - particularly the end - felt forced and gimmicky to me.

Minor spoiler warning...

And, of course, the "librareome project" made absolutely no sense whatsoever. Given that we already have automated book scanning robots, why in 2030 would we go out of our way to shred books to scan them, since that only makes it harder than scanning an intact book? The genome project had to assemble the genome by computing the correct connections of millions of overlapping fragments because with a genome there is no other way to do it yet. But when you have an intact, scannable source it doesn't make any sense to destroy it for digitization purposes : you're only making your life harder.

Re:Rainbows End

[huckamania]

Marooned in Realtime and A Deepness in the Sky are both great reads on their own, but the first is a sequel and the other is a prequel, if I'm not mistaken. I would recommend reading them in the order they were written.

I keep hoping that Mr Vinge will write a sequel to A Fire Upon the Deep, which I consider to be his best book and definately top 10 SF all time.

Re:Rainbows End

[LauraW]

Marooned in Realtime and A Deepness in the Sky are both great reads on their own

Agreed.

but the first is a sequel and the other is a prequel, if I'm not mistaken.

Marooned in Realtime is a very long-range sequel to The Peace War and it definitely makes sense to read The Peace War first. A Deepness in the Sky is set in the same universe as A Fire Upon the Deep, but about 30,000 years earlier. The two books have almost no plot elements or characters in common, however, and I don't think it really matters what order you read them in.

I keep hoping that Mr Vinge will write a sequel to A Fire Upon the Deep, which I consider to be his best book and definately top 10 SF all time.

I'm not sure whether I like this one or A Deepness in the Sky better. Both were excellent. Vernor Vinge is one of the best there is at inventing convincing, very non-human, and very alien aliens. C. J. Cherryh can be good at that too at times, but I think Vinge is better, at least in these two books.

Re:Rainbows End

[aldo.gs]

I can also highly recommend this book to everyone here at slashdot. It's the kind of book most of us will be able to relate to. A book by a geek who understands not only technology, but also the social implications thereof.

You must be new here.

Re:Rainbows End

[IdahoEv]

The two books have almost no plot elements or characters in common,

Well, except for the main character, Pham Nuwen, who is the primary protagonist of Fire and one of the primaries in Deepness. And Deepness sets up how his character ends up in Fire.

Re:Rainbows End

[Vadim Makarov]

There is a fulltext of Rainbows End on Vinge's site.

Blink!

[radarsat1]

I thought "Blink" was by far the best Dr. Who episode this season.. can't believe it wasn't listed there.
Anyways, are they really canceling this show after next season?? I do hope it continues.

Re:Blink!

[Carewolf]

"Blink" has the same author, but was probably too new for this award. I don't understand why they don't make more episodes with Stefan Muffat, he is by far the best of all the current Doctor Who script writers.

Re:Blink!

[TheRealFixer]

Those episodes were from last year. I'm sure either Blink or Family of Blood will make it next time.

And they aren't canceling it. From what I understand, they're doing the 4th series, then taking a break and producing a handful of extended length specials, and then doing the 5th series.

Re:Blink!

[superid]

This was the very first Dr. Who that I've ever seen. I was hooked in 10 minutes and ended up watching every single episode. It's amazing how good the whole series is.

Re:Blink!

[peragrin]

I haven't seen it yet it airs next friday in the USA for the first time.

So don't spoil it for me the previews looked good and I have to wait as it is or spoil my friday sci-fi night.

Re:Blink!

[Anonymous Coward]

I really enjoy the "NEW Dr. Who" myself, all thru the Christopher Eccleston/Billie Piper 2005 series episodes, & into the David Tennant/Billie Piper/Freema Agyeman 2006-2007 episodes!

My favs are:

====

Christopher Eccleston as the Doctor:

Dalek (my fav of C.E.'s series episodes, an insight into Dalek's & quite the "social message" by Rose Tyler (Bille Piper) @ the end, imo @ least!)

The Unquiet Dead (first one I ever saw from the 2005-2007 series)

----

David Tennant as the Doctor:

(BILLIE PIPER EPISODES)

The Girl in The Fireplace

Tooth & Claw

Rise of the Cybermen

The Age of Steel

The Impossible Planet (leads into my fav)

The Satan Pit (my fav)

Love & Monsters

Army of Ghosts (leads into the one below)

Doomsday (awesome Dalek stuff here, & my 2nd fav from this series)

(FREEMA AGYEMAN EPISODES)

Blink

Gridlock

The Shakespeare Code

====

I'd absolutely HIGHLY recommend this series 2005-2007 to ANYONE that likes Science Fiction, by ALL means...

APK

P.S.=> The British astounded me on this series, I am truly "hooked"... it's Science Fiction DONE RIGHT (up there with my all-time fav, Star Trek The original series (Kirk, Spock, & McCoy stuff))... apk

Re:Blink!

[Orange Crush]

Rumor has it that Moffat will be taking over from RTD after season 5. They're having a 1 year hiatus between season 4 and 5 and RTD is expected to move on to something else. I agree, I've loved each and every episode penned by Moffat and Blink was perhaps the best one.

Re:Blink!

[Stephen Williams]

Anyways, are they really canceling this show after next season?

No, thank goodness! It's going on semi-hiatus in 2009, with three specials instead of a full season. No news as to whether David Tennant will return in 2010, though.

-Stephen

Re:Blink!

[Anonymous Coward]

You'll love it, I almost guarantee that... & oh:

See these episodes I list, especially, when you get the chance to catch them... they're awesome!

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=291821&cid=205 20731

Enjoy!

APK

Re:Blink!

[FishWithAHammer]

Christopher Eccleston was far, far better than Tennant. Too bad we can't go backwards.

Re:Blink!

[h4rm0ny]

Blink was great. Wonderfully tightly wound little plot, great effects and creepy-lovely. I also like the Utopia - Last of the Timelords sequence because it introduced some nice modern day concerns and well, it's hard to go wrong with such an epic villain. Very true to the character of the Doctor in his non-violent approach to defeating the Master, also. But Blink was definitely one of the best.

Re:Blink!

[SpooForBrains]

If you liked the episode, be sure to read "What I Did on My Holidays" by Sally Sparrow, the short story on which the episode was based. It was a favourite in our house before the episode was made - the kids really loved it.

Re:Blink!

[meringuoid]

I haven't seen it yet it airs next friday in the USA for the first time.

Well, you're in for a treat and a half. This is an episode that really thinks through the possible mindfucks of time travel, and gets it all into one story. And it's spooky as hell, too - I imagine it's caused more than its share of nightmares :-)

Re:Blink!

[meringuoid]

I thought "Blink" was by far the best Dr. Who episode this season.. can't believe it wasn't listed there. Anyways, are they really canceling this show after next season?? I do hope it continues.

Blink was fantastic; Family of Blood was also excellent, and the finale was tremendous.

They're definitely not cancelling the show; it's absolutely huge, the kids love it, and merchandise sales are astronomical. They're having a year out, and I hear it's because David Tennant is going to be playing Hamlet. I mean, seriously... cancel Doctor Who? Why, the BBC would have to be quite mad to do away with such a national icon. Certainly they'd never do such a thing. Nope. Never ever ever.

(No, I never have forgiven them for what they did when I was eight. Damn them.)

Re:Blink!

[forkazoo]

I haven't seen it yet it airs next friday in the USA for the first time.

Well, you're in for a treat and a half. This is an episode that really thinks through the possible mindfucks of time travel, and gets it all into one story. And it's spooky as hell, too - I imagine it's caused more than its share of nightmares :-)

I'll just jump in and say ++ to how great that episode was. It's like after 40 years, somebody working on the show finally said, "Hey man... our main character travels through fucking time. That's kind of trippy. I mean, you completely mess with causality when you get to travel arbitrarily." I had a few complaints about that episode, but far and away my biggest complaint was the fact that it wasn't a two parter!

Side note: In addition to the story being quite well written and well directed... The actress who plays the guest character is quite hot. They should bring her back as a companion if possible.

The Best Short Story Nominations are . . .

[Slithe]

Best Short Story

        * "Impossible Dreams" by Tim Pratt [Asimov's July 2006]
        * "How to Talk to Girls at Parties" by Neil Gaiman [Fragile Things, William Morrow 2006]
        * "Eight Episodes" by Robert Reed [Asimov's June 2006]
        * "Kin" by Bruce McAllister [Asimov's Feb 2006]
        * "The House Beyond Your Sky" by Benjamin Rosenbaum [Strange Horizons Sep 2006]

Best Related Non-Fiction Book Funny, I didn't know Slashdotters held that much power at Worldcon

Re:The Best Short Story Nominations are . . .

[91degrees]

Funny, I didn't know Slashdotters held that much power at Worldcon

Yes, I get the joke, but I'd bet a hell of a lot of the people there were Slashdotters.

And yeah, a hell of a lot of them don't know how to talk to girls at parties:)

Re:The Best Short Story Nominations are . . .

[bornyesterday]

don't get your hopes up. it's fiction

Re:The Best Short Story Nominations are . . .

[deniable]

Science fiction.

Re:The Best Short Story Nominations are . . .

[phedre]

So does it teach you how to meet girls at parties that are into science fiction? Of course that is surely a mythical creature, and that is precisely why the book is fiction. After all, can we really have a dating guide based on how to date a mythical creature? And being a girl who likes sci-fi I guess I just said I don't exist. Whatever.

Re:The Best Short Story Nominations are . . .

[mink]

Well my copy of The Guide suggest this "Hey doll, is this guy boring you? Why don't you talk to me instead? I'm from a different planet."

Charles Stross

[grassy_knoll]

I'm disapointed that he didn't win the best novel category. I'm a huge fan of his Laundry books ( think HP Lovecraft + Dilbert in a spy novel ).

Re:Charles Stross

[Anonymous Coward]

Meh, he can be a really good author, but this specific book (Glasshouse) wasn't up to par (compare with Accelerando), while Vinge totally outdid himself with Rainbows End.

(Most) Huge voters don't play favorites; they vote for which specific work is best, not which author they like best overall (there's other awards for that).

Re:Charles Stross

[91degrees]

If it's any consellation, he did win an award from the Libertarian Futurist society.

Re:Charles Stross

[savorymedia]

( think HP Lovecraft + Dilbert in a spy novel )

That description made my brain hurt.

Re:Charles Stross

[lavonardo]

Well, the awards are for individual books, not authors.
And Glasshouse, which was nominated this year, sadly isn't as good as the Laundry-stories.

Re:Charles Stross

[Elladan]

( think HP Lovecraft + Dilbert in a spy novel ) That description made my brain hurt. I think that's the point. :-)

("The Atrocity Archives", and "The Jennifer Morgue")

Re:Charles Stross

[brianeisley]

That's particularly interesting, because Stross is a socialist.

Re:Charles Stross

[FleaPlus]

One of Stross's Laundry novellas, "The Concrete Jungle," is actually available online:

http://www.goldengryphon.com/Stross-Concrete.html

I believe it lies in between the events of the Atrocity Archives and Jennifer Morgue. Concrete Jungle rather uniquely manages to tie together the UK's surveillance camera grid with Greek mythology, and is a lot of fun to read.

no online short story winners?

[sdedeo]

Curious to see that the print journals (and Asimov's in particular) still rule. I don't read SF as much as I used to, but I would assume that there is a lot of work online and probably a lot of good online magazines for it to appear in. At least, that's how it is in my own niche, poetry, where online journals these days publish a non-negligible fraction of the work that wins contemporary awards in the "industry."

Are the Hugo readers still a little too snobby for the web?

Re:no online short story winners?

[jguthrie]

They're still trying to figure out where to fit the Web into it, so they don't know what to do with on-line magazines like Baen's Universe Fortunately, selected bits of last year's Baen's Universe have been published in book form, and they say they're planning to do that again next year. That makes them eligible for awards under the current rules for printed works.

I've got to believe that the local denizens would like that magazine. They offer DRM-free downloads of each issue and, in addition to stories, have editorials about what's screwed up with the current copyright laws.

Re:no online short story winners?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, Strange Horizons (http://www.strangehorizons.com/), which published Benjamin Rosenbaum's Hugo nominee short story, is an excellent online weekly magazine - not a print journal. They even pay pro rates for fiction and poetry authors, and have published a new issue every week for seven years - not a small accomplishment. So, while most of the nominees (for short fiction, at least) are still from traditional sources, it's nice that venues like Strange Horizons are getting some recognition as well.

Re:no online short story winners?

[julesh]

Are the Hugo readers still a little too snobby for the web?

No. There's a distinct shortage of web publishers who pay as well for stories as the leading print ones, so there aren't as many good stories published first on the web. It's times like this I really mourn the loss of scifi.com's "scifiction" site, but they had a number of Hugo winning stories over the last few years, IIRC.

Also note that Hugos are fan-voted awards, not industry selected, so snobbiness is somewhat unlikely.

Is it too much to ask...

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it too much to ask that articles on a geek site have proper parenthesization? I going to have nightmares about the article not compiling for the rest of the day.

Re:Is it too much to ask...

[maxume]

You are not a particularly effective pedant. Or perhaps it was after dark wherever you were when you posted.

Blindsight should have won

[Viperion]

Not to take anything away from Vinge and Rainbows End, but Blindsight was just simply amazing. From the characters to the technology to the plotting style, it took everything good about a first contact story, and then added to it. If you haven't read it, you owe it to yourself to (and the associated Vampire Domestication presentation.) Best of all, Peter Watts has made it, and his previous Rifters trilogy, available online under a Creative Commons license at his website, and it's well worth just downloading and checking it out. I read it CC, and then bought the book. Haven't bought the Rifters set yet, but I probably will my next Amazon order.

Seriously, Blindsight took vampires, transhumans, uploaded minds, and alien contact, and made it into something incredible with the narrative devices, character development, setting and dialog. You need to read the book, and since the first one is free, why not?

Re:Blindsight should have won

[aldheorte]

Vampires? Fantasy and vampire books do not belong in the Hugos. Yes, I know Harry Potter won a Hugo and the Hugos nearly jumped the shark then, but it seems like they have gone back to real science fiction. If the vampires can be explained as simply a predatory species without all the gothic overhead, I could suffer that (though there better be a damn good evolutionary explanation for how such a species could evolve in such a way to consume the blood of other alien species), but if they come from hell or another dimension or whatever and are totally emo in between maintaining their blogs, that's right out.

Re:Blindsight should have won

[savala]

Fantasy most certainly does belong in the Hugos. From the FAQ:

Aren't Hugos just for Science Fiction?

While the organization sponsoring the Hugos is named the World Science Fiction Society, our charter explicitly makes fantasy as well as SF eligible for our awards. Works of fantasy have often won Hugos, and, in fact, Hugos have been won by works that some people consider horror or even mainstream. There will never be universal agreement about the precise distinctions between genres and sub-genres, so WSFS's position is that eligibility is determined by the voters. To paraphrase the great SF editor and writer Damon Knight, a Hugo winner is what the Hugo voters point to when they award a Hugo.

Also, you must never have read C.S. Friedman's The Madness Season, or Steven Brust's Agyar. Just like not all science fiction is rocket-ships and laser-guns, not all vampires come from "hell or another dimension".

Re:Blindsight should have won

[TomHandy]

Or "I Am Legend" for that matter.

Re:Blindsight should have won

[QuantumET]

It was explained with plenty of hard science fiction - a human subspecies missing the ability to produce a key biological compound, leading to a host of other adaptations to allow the vampires to successfully hunt regular humans, including different brain wiring, hibernation ability, and an unfortunate mental glitch having to do with right angles, which lead to them going extinct way before modern times. They were then brought back through some genetic archeology work.

Re:Blindsight should have won

[Viperion]

If you read Watts' Vampire Domestication PDF, it should answer most of your questions, and let you decide if you are going to read the book or not.

Re:Blindsight should have won

[tehcyder]

You need to read the book, and since the first one is free, why not?

Good job on making it sound like a drug deal!

I didn't like Rainbow's End

[Henry V .009]

I am normally a big Vinge fan, but I wasn't too impressed by Rainbow's End. I thought that the schooling part of the story was mostly silly. Success isn't really about schooling, it's about intelligence. (Although big impressive credentials are important and its hard to get those without schooling.) Unlike Vinge's imagining, high school computer class in the future will be just as silly as it was 10 years ago, just as silly as it is now. Even if the technology improves, the teachers and students will not. If you are a genius poet from the past, the place to learn about computers is not high school.

The technology was interesting and well thought out, but Vinge didn't really have an impressive plot to go with them. He concentrated on characters, not Vinge's forte, to the detriment of plot, which is Vinge's forte.

Maybe I should re-read Fire Upon the Deep and True Names to get the taste of Rainbow's End out of my mouth.

Re:I didn't like Rainbow's End

[Silmaril]

Agreed. I couldn't stand Rainbow's End, though I read it through to the end because it was written by Vinge, and I loved his other work. This frankly makes me lose faith in the Hugo as a guidepost to what to read.

Re:I didn't like Rainbow's End

[Anonymous Coward]

He's a professor of computer science. I'd say that career choice represents a viewpoint which is fundamentally opposed with your pet theory on intelligence. Q.E.D.

Re:I didn't like Rainbow's End

[Tyr_7BE]

Glad you posted this. I read Rainbow's End, and by the end of the book I was rushing to get through it. As you said, the technological predictions were interesting, but the plot itself was a real lemon. Maybe I'll give him another shot, since it seems Rainbow's End wasn't a true representation of his work.

They need some new categories.

[foniksonik]

There should be:

Best Video Game - Console/PC

Best Video Game - Web

Best Machina - Short

Best Machina - Long

Best Interactive - Website

Best Interactive - Microsite

Essentially there are a lot more formats available for Sci-Fi/Fantasy creative works than there used to be. Let's give those people awards for their contributions.

Re:They need some new categories.

[Anonymous Coward]

An excellent suggestion.

Re:They need some new categories.

[GeorgeVW]

Getting Hugo categories added is a long and tortuous road. There have been attempts in the past to add Best Interactive Video Game and Best Website but they failed through not enough people bothering to nominate and/or vote in those categories. If you're seriously interested, there's a lot more information at this page.

Re:They need some new categories.

[Sibko]

I would really rather they didn't do that. Have you ever seen how fanboys argue with each other on forums about how this game sucks, and that game rules? I quite honestly think videogames would kill the reputation of the Nebula and Hugo awards. There's incredible differences between a Tolkien fanboy arguing with an 'R. R. Martin fanboy over literary elements, and a Halo fanboy arguing with a Half-Life fanboy over gameplay elements. [I'm sure you can imagine how those two conversations would go.]

Re:They need some new categories.

[The One and Only]

Who could have known that science fiction enthusiasts could be so stodgy, conservative, and stuck in the past?

Re:They need some new categories.

[GeorgeVW]

Anybody who's spent any time around "fandom", unfortunately.

Re:They need some new categories.

[WilliamSChips]

Yeah, the latter actually talk about things that aren't incomprehensible to anybody who doesn't take decades studying obscure literaria.

Jim Baen's Universe

[sdedeo]

My eyes! That has to be the most horribly laid-out webzine I've seen in awhile! The fontsize seems chosen for the massively aged, e.g., and the leading is awful. (Well, OK, the internet is a race to the bottom when it comes to layout, of course, although I thought things were changing.) Also, what is up with megalomaniac SF names? Who is Jim Baen? He ain't Asimov, that's for sure! (And I believe Asimov had to be cajoled into letting his name be used as the magazine's title.)

Interesting to see that they charge for access, which has never been a successful business plan on the web (I get 90% of my periodical reading online and have never paid for content; even the New York Times couldn't make it work, TimesSelect is on the outs. I sometimes get free online access as part of a print subscription deal, though, so call me a hypocrite.) They do seem to be generous with payments to authors (on the order of thousands), which is terrific.

Re:Jim Baen's Universe

[AaronLawrence]

Doesn't seem so terrible to me, except for the very cluttered image in the front.
They seem to be going for a retro look, which is interesting.
Font size doesn't seem any different to anywhere else...

Perhaps you're just reacting to a website that dares to use serif fonts?

Re:Jim Baen's Universe

[sdedeo]

Funnily enough, I have just been advocating forserif fonts for body text on the web (check my blog.) The font size thing may be a browser dependent thing -- on the latest version of Safari, the lowercase (!) in the stories is taller than the standard mouse pointer. That's way too large for me. I am way way sympathetic to browser-dependent bugs, we just finished laying out absent, a poetry journal, and it took far longer than expected because Safari's treatment of word breaks in <pre> tags is broken w/r/t to the spec. (Not to slam Safari in particular -- IE also was a horror to deal with.)

Re:Jim Baen's Universe

[Jardine]

Who is Jim Baen? He ain't Asimov, that's for sure! (And I believe Asimov had to be cajoled into letting his name be used as the magazine's title.)

Jim Baen is the publisher (or was, since he recently passed away). Baen Books is huge in their niche market of military science fiction and space opera. Many of the books they publish are also available as DRM-free ebooks. Quite a few are at the Baen Free Library for free and a lot of the newer hardcover books come with CDs containing other works by the author. These CDs can be freely distributed.

Re:Jim Baen's Universe

[jguthrie]

Up until he died last year, Jim Baen was a big name editor and publisher and had done that for 30 years.

Re:Jim Baen's Universe

[AaronLawrence]

OK, the font looks normal to me, lowercase much smaller than mouse pointer (and I have a minimum font size set in Seamonkey). It looks about the same as the fonts on absent to me.

Hm, nice look on Absent, but I find the bright red on brownish background difficult to read myself. I would dull it to about half that. Just my 2c.

Doctor Whaaa?

[MrZaius]

I'm not going to argue that Doctor Who is somehow insignificant or unworthy of attention, but last year was a wonderful year for science fiction on television. I cannot begin to understand how Doctor Who took the award for best episode even when its fanbase was split between two nominated episodes. It seems remarkably hard to fathom that the 4,000 year old series, infinitely rehashed, is still considered original enough to warrant the award. Give lifetime achievement awards for those that stuck with the project(s) longest, but don't try to tell me that the Doctor Who from last year was in any way shape or form superior to, say, Eureka, Heroes, or Jericho, each of which was more original and compelling than the remarkably hard to kill Doctor Who series, and somehow managed not to get a single nomination. Are the World Science Fiction Society members completely unwilling to watch a show that isn't 40 seasons old a remake? There was nothing fresh or original in the nominations. Even if you disregard the originality complaint, Battlestar Galactica was still infinitely more deserving.

Re:Doctor Whaaa?

[Anonymous Coward]

Long time Doctor Who fan here. I wouldn't give you 2c for Eureka, Heroes or Jericho. (They're all too 'Dawson's Creek' for my taste.) But, I also wouldn't nominate Doctor Who either. The writing's been far too often sloppy and the "science" has been laughable. The Doctor being recast from David Tennant to Dobbie the House Elf in the final episode of this season was also pretty risable. If there's a series that deserves an award for quality writing and well realised sci-fi drama, it's been Battlestar Gallactica. No question.

Re:Doctor Whaaa?

[CharAznable]

Did you actually watch the episode in question? I kinda lost interest in the new series after Eccleston left, but I have to admit that "Girl In The Fireplace" is by far the best Doctor Who episode ever, and roundly trounces anything in Battlestar's second season.

Re:Doctor Whaaa?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't understand the fascination with the latest incarnation of Dr. Who, either. I personally find it downright silly. The writing is laughable. I guess it's alright if you look at it a a kid's show, but if that's the case, then it really is in a different category than the other shows nominated and that you mentioned.

Re:Doctor Whaaa?

[Stu Charlton]

As a watcher of Heroes, Jericho, and Battlestar Galactica, I must say that the "Girl in the Fireplace" was one of the best Doctor Who episodes they've ever done. The quality of an individual episode is what's evaluated here, not that it's a part of a 40-year old framework.

Heroes struck me as candy on the level of Prison Break, with a lot of comic-book sensibility thrown in.
Jericho is more (good) drama than Sci Fi.

Having said this:
- The Hugos were for shows that aired through Summer 2006. Heroes and Jericho will be up for next year's awards.
- They're going to have a heck of a competition with Doctor Who + Stephen Moffat again. The episode "Blink" was fantastic. There's also the "Human Nature/Family of Blood" duo, by Paul Cornell
- Battlestar Galactica is much more daring and deserving of recognition.

Re:Doctor Whaaa?

[itsdapead]

Are the World Science Fiction Society members completely unwilling to watch a show that isn't 40 seasons old a remake?

Ever since the heartbreak of Firefly (and all those other promising shows that got canned after a season or less) you can forgive people for not wanting to mentally invest in anything without a few seasons under its belt :-)

Its very ambiguous whether "Who" is a remake, a re-boot or just a show picked up after a 15-year hiatus... the format has been changed but it does have some continuity with the old version.

Also: "Who" is pretty unique because it is targetted at a mainstream "family" audience - in the UK it goes out at 7PM, Saturday on one of the main terrestrial channels - plus its one of the "main events" on Christmas Day. Its done a lot to get SF/fantasy - and general action/adventure - back on the TV map in the UK. This may not be obvious if you're watching via Bittorrent in the US...

The writing on the new series is variable - but Stephen Moffat's episodes "The Empty Child", "Girl in the Fireplace" and (this year) "Blink" are absolute gems. The latter two also make excellent use of time travel, which should give them SF brownie points.

The trouble with all these awards is how you are meant to compare "new BSG" (gritty, adult themes) with "Who" (traditionally a bit B-movie creature feature camp, aimed at kids in the 7-70 age range, tries to sneak the odd adult theme under the radar*).

* the least said about the paving-slab fellatio episode, the better... that one should be up for the Razzies :-)

Re:Doctor Whaaa?

[exp(pi*sqrt(163))]

> "Girl In The Fireplace" is by far the best Doctor Who episode ever

No it's not. The winner of next year's Hugo award, by the same author, is even better.

Re:Doctor Whaaa?

[exp(pi*sqrt(163))]

Like most TV "sci fi", Doctor Who has always been Cargo Cult Science Fiction. It has the trappings of Science Fiction - spaceships, time travel, aliens, robots and so on - but in all its years, nobody has ever thought to write an actual science fiction Doctor Who script, until Stephen Moffat came along. The Doctor has been a little risible lately, but don't let that get in the way of the fact that Moffat has written two or three episodes that transcend the genre and rise up to the level of some of the great science fiction stories of old. I love Battelstar Galactica too, and it was well put together drama, but it doesn't have any individual story to match Moffat's writing.

Re:Doctor Whaaa?

[CharAznable]

Damn. Is there anything Moffat can't do? Seriously, 1 or 2 episodes per season is not enough. This man should write all of them.

Re:Doctor Whaaa?

[91degrees]

Heroes is great. The only real problem is that no individual episode is anywhere near as good as the entire series (And Hugos are only for individual episodes).

That and Blink was one of the best pieces of sf television I've seen for a while.

Re:Doctor Whaaa?

[sunspot42]

I cannot begin to understand how Doctor Who took the award for best episode even when its fanbase was split between two nominated episodes.

Doctor Who didn't take home the Hugo because it's been around for a long time, although I don't see why that should be a consideration one way or the other. The episode "The Girl In The Fireplace" took home a well-deserved Hugo because it's one of the finest pieces of science-fiction to show up on the small screen in years. It's got crap to do with the age of the series or its many longtime fans. "The Girl In The Fireplace" makes Eureka, Heroes and Jericho look like crap (as did Battlestar Galactica's "Downloaded", but that's another story).

It's just a pity scriptwriter Moffett is only turning out a single Doctor Who episode a season instead of a dozen.

Re:Doctor Whaaa?

[Nazlfrag]

I'm with you here - while the latest incarnation of the series has been uninspiring as a whole, there have been some superlative episodes that deserve all the recognition and awards they will get.

Re:Doctor Whaaa?

[julesh]

I cannot begin to understand how Doctor Who took the award for best episode even when its fanbase was split between two nominated episodes.

The Hugo vote uses a form of instant runoff voting. In most cases, splitting the fans between the two episodes shouldn't matter, because as soon as one episode is eliminated their votes will be transferred to the other.

Re:Doctor Whaaa?

[kalirion]

Actually I think the Heroes graphic novels (still continuing while the series is on break!) on nbc's site are often more deserving of awards than the show itself.

Re:Doctor Whaaa?

[mink]

"but in all its years, nobody has ever thought to write an actual science fiction Doctor Who script"

I'm not sure I can agree with this. Your statment appears to paint every episode ever writen as that, and I do not agree.
Sadly IMO some of the better written arcs are lost to us or only partially exist as reconstructions.

Do you mean "hard science fiction" when you say "actual science fiction"?

Re:Doctor Whaaa?

[exp(pi*sqrt(163))]

Do you mean "hard science fiction" when you say "actual science fiction"?

I've watched hundreds episodes of Doctor Who in my life and almost all are simply stories from another genre with characters dressed in science fictiony outfits. Many episodes read as straight horror, or crime, or fantasy quests, rather than science fiction. For example, consider time travel. It's mostly just used as an excuse to have people wearing different period outfits in different episodes. Any time there might be an interesting consequence of a bit of time travel, the Doctor makes some excuse about paradoxes and closes off that plot direction. (Which is of course just an excuse for scriptwriters to avoid anything that might hurt their little brains.) Finally, after decades of waiting, Stephen Moffat has written a couple of stories that explore some of the consequences of time travel. It seems like he's the first writer they've had whose read some science fiction before in his life - as opposed to seeing tinfoil outfits in 50s science fiction movies and thinking that that was what science fiction was about. Is exploring time travel in anything other than a trivial way "hard science fiction"? I'm not sure it is. It's just plain science fiction.

Having said all that, I do like Doctor Who. But I like it for the fun character interactions, and the shiny science fictiony outfits, not because there's any science fiction content.

Re:Doctor Whaaa?

[mink]

Ahh. So you are happy with the recent uses of time travel as a part of the plot rather then as a means to get to Ceti Alpha 5 so they can build sandcastles.

I agree that the writing you refer to is science fiction. I think you are overlooking a lot of Dr. Who writing that, while not using time travel as a major plot element, still is science fiction.

The reason I asked if you were wanting Hard SF is that the hard stuff looks at things we know about the way things work and where it is going and the writer uses that in the story. Wikipedia has some links to authors who tend to write in that style.

Dr. Who writing is not hard SF (even the stuff you like goes too far) and there are often elements of fantasy there as well as the horror/remade story elements you mention.

Looks like our definitions of what is acceptable as science fiction are different I can live with it. I hope you get more episodes to your liking. It's worth watching some old ones (especially the first two doctors) from time to time, even if they are not exploring the nuances of time travel and reversing the polarity of the neutron flow (3rd doctor).

Re:Doctor Whaaa?

[exp(pi*sqrt(163))]

> It's worth watching some old ones (especially the first two doctors)

Are these episodes different in character? I enjoyed Jon Pertwee and Tom Baker - but this was primarily because of the personalities that they portrayed.

Re:Doctor Whaaa?

[mink]

From wikipedia "The programme was intended to be educational and for family viewing on the early Saturday evening schedule. Initially, it alternated stories set in the past, which would teach younger audience members about history, with stories set either in the future or in outer space to teach them about science. This was also reflected in the Doctor's original companions, one of whom was a science teacher and another a history teacher."

During the seconds Doctor's series they dropped the historical style episodes (they had stuff in the past, but it was all about the sci-fi in the past). I liked them, sure they were not hugely educational but they were well done and it was amazing how good a job they did with so little.

Half the time the first Doctor was getting into trouble was because of scientific curiosity, at least the character started as one who was interested in exploring the unknown, collecting rock samples and looking at things in a microscope. Often every stereotype of an old man (part of this was intentional and part was due to an undiagnosed illness) he had a sharp wit and cared greatly for his "daughter" Susan.

The second Doctor was younger and more active. He tangles with Cybermen and Daleks, and there are quite a few Sci-Fi on earth Stories (Yeti robots, and other strange things). This Doctor's run introduced Lethbridge-Stewart who later became the leader of U.N.I.T. I would describe him as whimsical and much like Tennant capable of giving his adversaries the impression he is a bumbling fool rather then a clever and intelligent opponent.

It's worth seeing at least his final story arc (war games I think it was called).

I really want to see more U.N.I.T. in the current run of Dr. Who., Torchwood does not cut it for me.

Sadly many of the first two Doctors episodes (more of the seconds sadly) were destroyed and if they exist only as reconstructions made with production photo stills (sometimes with action subtitles) and usually complete audio tracks.

For a good description of the style of characters and things read the wikipedia entries on the first and second doctors.

If you do decide to watch them, try to see the early Dalek and Cybermen stories, The Cybermen evolve the most over the various Doctor Who series.

I also like the multi doctor episodes (2, 3 and 5). Another fun thing is that the earlier actors tended to blend in a little of their predicessors mannerisms and quirks from time to time. To me that made the character feel more like an evolution rather then someone who jsut walked on stage to play the part.

Re:Doctor Whaaa?

[kastandlee]

Actually, the Hugo Awards are for anything that first appeared in calendar year 2006. They do not refer to television "seasons."

In addition, the WSFS Business Meeting renewed a provision that allows that works first published or appearing prior to 2007 outside the USA that are first published or appear in the USA in 2007 get an extra year of eligibility. For example, a show that airs in the UK in 2006 (but didn't get nominated) but then airs for the first time in the USA in 2007 would be eligible for the 2008 Hugo Awards.

Kevin Standlee
Former Hugo Awards Administrator

Speaking of print sci-fi journals....

[supremespleen]

I didn't even know that sort of thing was still being published? I've found Asmiov's (http://www.asimovs.com/). What else is out there? I totally would love to subscribe to one of these but would like to know the options and what is the best. Any assistance is appreciated!

Re:Speaking of print sci-fi journals....

[RealRav]

I subscribe to Asimov's, Analog:Science Fiction and Fact, and Fantasy & Science Fiction. All three have consistently high quality fiction. They can usually be found at your local bookstore in the magazine section. Look closely they are smaller that the magazines. All of them also have web portals with samples of their writing. Take a look, there's some fantastic fiction waiting for you.

RealRav

Re:Speaking of print sci-fi journals....

[GeorgeVW]

And if you're not into dead tree media, all three (Asimov's, F&SF, and Analog) are also available as PDF subscriptions through Fictionwise, which is how I get them.

Re:Speaking of print sci-fi journals....

[julesh]

In addition to the other replies, there's also Interzone, which is British and of a slightly different tone.

Is Vinge a Judge?

[teapot_giovanni]

He seems to scoop up the Hugo for every book. Ranbows End was good, but it isn't a Pham Nuwen novel, IMO.

Re:Is Vinge a Judge?

[skidv]

Its really tough to game the Hugo voting system. Here's a description:

http://www.thehugoawards.org/?page_id=4

Many US Libertarians feel that we should use this system (or perhaps, a system with a similar design) to vote in US elections:

http://rangevoting.org/rangeVapp.html

All Who All the Time!

[jefu]

At one point, mumblety-mumblety years ago when PBS was running Dr Who, I taped each episode and watched them while exercising. I believe I saw every episode that PBS broadcast, ranging from (the available) Hartnell episodes to McCoy. It took rather a while. (And yes, I enjoyed them and no, I'd not even think about doing it again.) I've since seen (but less comprehensively) many of the episodes produced since. (I didn't enjoy the Eccleston series as much as some of the others, but rather I'm looking forward to the Tennant ones from the promos I've seen.) I do wonder if your "every single episode" translates to what I'd think of as "every single episode".

Re:All Who All the Time!

[superid]

No absolutely not. I definitely know of the "classic" Dr. Who's but I've never had the chance to see them. I should have qualified what I said as every single modern episode. Working from the wikipedia entry I mean only Dr.s 9 and 10 so I have obviously only barely scratched the surface.

The Girl In The Fireplace

[CharAznable]

Is the best Doctor Who episode ever. It's been a while since you could say that a Doctor Who episode is so original, and its story so poignant, and elegantly written. I especially love how the final shot ties the whole episode together and resolves what looked like a plot inconsistency up to that moment.

Re:The Girl In The Fireplace

[itsdapead]

It was good - I thought it had a disticnt Douglas Adams-y feel to it.

On reflection, that was probably the inexplicable Horse, plus a bit of inspiration from the Grebulons in "Mostly Harmless"... Still, what goes around comes around :-)

(FYI the late lamented Adams once worked as script editor/author on the original Doctor Who - elements of "Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency" and "Life, The Universe and Everything" actually started life as Doctor Who scripts)

Great thing about Stephen Moffat is that - unlike other Who authors - he realizes that time travel isn't just a plot device to take you somewhere interesting to have an advanture - same goes for his episode "Blink" that should be airing in the US about now... Not such a tear-jerker, but another contender for Best. Episode. Ever.

Re:The Girl In The Fireplace

[CharAznable]

OK I just watched "Blink" and I almost crapped my pants, from a combination of it being the best episode EVAR and the statues creeping me out. Pretty much best writing so far in Doctor Who, and by far the best episode of any sci fi show this year.

Link to full text of fiction nominees

[fmackay]

Here.

Most of them anyway - the Stross is a link to buy the ebook for a silly price, so why not try Accelerando instead, which is free, or any of a bunch of stories on his site.

This is not news

[Anonymous Coward]

The winners were known more than two months ago

Re:This is not news

[julesh]

The winners were known more than two months ago

Really? How on Earth could that be possible, seeing as the ballot only closed last month?

Re:This is not news

[WIAKywbfatw]

Duh. Time travel.

You're new to this sci-fi lark, aren't you?

Now please excuse me while I travel forward in time to see next year's results, then further forward another two weeks to see the Slashdot story, then further forward another week to see the dupe.

No kidding

[markov_chain]

I so wish I could nominate localroger's (Roger Williams I think) stories he posted at kuro5hin... his Revelation Passages series is the single best, most imaginative and logically consistent story I've ever read; truly good SF! Highly recommended: Revelation Passage.

Re:No kidding

[sdedeo]

There was a fantastic, grotesque story on kuro5hin a few years ago -- I can't remember the title or author -- a very well worked out novella on the notion of post-singularity AI that endeavours to protect mankind, against its wishes in many cases, from death. The novella focuses on a cult of people who "push" the system as far as possible. Really one of the best SF pieces I've read in years.

Re:No kidding

[Pembers]

That would probably be The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect, by the same localroger chappie. (Too lazy to dig out a link to it.)

I read it a couple of years ago and, while the plot was interesting, I wouldn't say I enjoyed it very much. I'm not keen on blood and gore, and I think the large amount of it in the first half of the book put me off.

Naomi Novik

[ladybugfi]

She won the Campbell award for Best New Writer with her first Temeraire book, "His Majesty's Dragon". It's basically a Horatio Hornblower book with dragons and interesting social commentary. Highly recommended.

The fun part is that Peter Jackson has optioned for the movie rights. The book(s) would really make a great adventure film(s).

News Travels Through Time

[Ray Radlein]

Is it horribly churlish of me to mention that all of this happened the better part of a week ago?

I've already had pictures run through my Flickr contacts feed of happy winners (Geri Sullivan posing with a soda bottle stand-in for her statue for Science-Fiction Five-Yearly) and so forth.

How is it that it took this long for someone to submit this to Slashdot?


[ n.b. : I was away at a Science Fiction convention last weekend; that's my excuse]

"Dramatic Presentation" Awards

[Telephone Sanitizer]

I wish they'd eliminate those categories. They're nothing but pandering.

Participants keep pushing with the "No Award" votes, but the message isn't getting through.

Re:"Dramatic Presentation" Awards

[Xtifr]

By "the message isn't getting through", you mean, "actual nominees keep winning", which suggests that a majority disagrees with you. Actually, I would say that the message isn't getting out there (I'd never heard this argument before), isn't being understood (I have no idea what you mean) or isn't being accepted (to the extent that I do understand, I disagree).

Can you explain how, exactly, this is "pandering"? Who is being pandered to? How is dramatic presentation pandering, while best novel (for example) isn't? They both could be considered pandering to their respective industries, and, in fact, "Hugo Winner" is often proudly plastered on the cover of books, while the fact that a feature film has won the Hugo is something that only insiders will generally know. If you mean pandering to the public to try to increase voter participation, well, frankly, I think that's a good thing. Though I suspect it's a pretty minimal effect, since the movie audience is largely unaware that movies win Hugos.

I'm willing to listen to a more detailed explanation of the argument, but I have to say that my first reaction is to make sure I always vote "No Award" at the bottom of these categories in future, even when I think there are nominees that should be ranked below it, simply to offset the inappropriate biased voting of a misguided clique.

Re:"Dramatic Presentation" Awards

[Telephone Sanitizer]

> If you mean pandering to the public to try to increase voter
> participation, well, frankly, I think that's a good thing.

That's part of it. Another part is that the sci-fi community is still plagued by insecurity and by throwing their lot in with feature films and pop tv, people seem to hope to legitimize something that's already legitimate.

Pandering, in this sense, refers to the simpering geek begging for attention, affection and affirmation who lurks inside of otherwise competent and confident adults.

> By "the message isn't getting through", you mean, "actual nominees keep winning"

No, I mean that every year there are protest votes and gag votes because the categories are not taken seriously or are outright ridiculed. There's a significant portion of the sci-fi community that considers those categories worthy of scorn.

When there was only one dramatic presentation award, participants only treated it half-seriously. For gosh sake, "Flesh Gordon" was a nominee!

But the fun has gone out of the game. People, as I said, vote for what they think legitimizes and promotes the industry to outsiders rather than what they enjoy or honestly believe is worthy of praise. It's a drag and I think that those categories -- recent additions -- should be retired.

Re:"Dramatic Presentation" Awards

[Anonymous Coward]

There's a significant portion of the sci-fi community that considers those categories worthy of scorn.

Yes. However, there's a *bigger* portion of the SF (thankyou!) community that considers those categories worthy of recognition.

"The message" is getting through just fine. It's just that not many of us actually agree with it.

  - Paul B. =:o}

Re:"Dramatic Presentation" Awards

[Xtifr]

"Recent additions"? There were seven awarded in the sixties, eight in the seventies, and a full ten awarded in each of the eighties and nineties. Unless you're referring to the split into "short form" and "long form", which was only done a few years ago, I don't see anything recent about it. The first Dramatic Presentation Hugo was in 1958 for The Incredible Shrinking Man. That's a year before I was born, and I'm no spring chicken.

> Another part is that the sci-fi community is still plagued by insecurity and by throwing their lot in with feature films and pop tv, people seem to hope to legitimize something that's already legitimate.

Sounds like there's another part of the community that is insecure and trying to overcompensate by trying to prove that they don't need films and TV, which strikes me as much more stupid. And fairly pathetic.

Of course, Sturgeon's Law applies to films just as much as to any other form of SF, but that's hardly a revelation.

> There's a significant portion of the sci-fi community that considers those categories worthy of scorn.

Speaking as a second generation fan who has been a regular at conventions since he was three, and has voted on numerous Hugo ballots over the years, I have to say that this "significant portion" has done a remarkable job of remaining invisible, at least to me. But at least now that I know these cretins exist, I can adjust my own voting in the future to try to compensate for their idiocy.

> People, as I said, vote for what they think legitimizes and promotes the industry to outsiders

They do that with books too. But more people (significantly more) vote for what they like. And if what they like frequently maps to what the mainstream likes, that only demonstrates that SF is increasingly mainstream these days. Sounds like some people are still trying to carry on a battle that was mostly won by the eighties. Sounds, as I said, like some people who are far too concerned with trying to overcompensate for their own feelings of inferiority. SF is accepted and respected now, so trying to prove that it doesn't need acceptance and respect strikes me as a pointless exercise. Secure, confident people don't run around trying to prove how secure and confident they are; that's something that insecure people do.

Pan's Labyrinth

[FroBugg]

It's interesting that of all the nominees for movies, three of them were based on novels, one on a graphic novel, and only one was an original premise.

Am I alone in being underwhelmed?

[msimm]

While I think it was a good movie I'd stop short of calling it revolutionary. If anything it was rootsy. As in the unedited Brothers Grimm. The original fairy tales before the disneyfication. Brazil was revolutionary. As was the Clockwork Orange. Even the stylized surrealism of The City of Lost Children. This felt predictable to me as a fairy tale in the traditional sense would.

PCs vs Consoles.

[Nicolay77]

I don't think it is a good idea at all to mix Console and PC games.

Games that shine in one platform are usually not that good as ports in the others, and that doesn't mean that the game is bad.

For example: doing Deus Ex IW a platform game made it a total failure in the PC. I have it and it sucks compared to the original. Not being able to use the keyboard for entering passwords sucks. And console gamers want easy things, so the game is dumbed down and it makes it less interesting. And even today it has bad framerates.

Finally: I can't really see Starcraft 2 in a console.

For anything remotely resembling winners and losers, keep those two platforms separated.

Re:PCs vs Consoles.

[foniksonik]

You may be right but consider that in an award like this it would be more about the premise, storyline and what the game as a work of creative fiction has contributed to the genre, rather than about it's gameplay. Many of the winning books and short stories are not exactly reader friendly to the masses (though it's a plus if they are) and are awarded based on these merits... otherwise you'd be seeing the latest Harry Potter in there every year as a nominee.

Great Hugo trophy this year!

[bookrats]

Does it come with it's own Beta Capsule?

Vinge yes, Rainbow's End no....

[simplerThanPossible]

Vernor Vinge deserves another Nebula (many!). But not for Rainbow's End, IMHO.

It has space opera/Hollywood depth of science/technology, whereas his earlier work addressed interesting questions (eg. of identity, in the Tines, and in Pham's godshatter in a Fire upon the Deep). Rainbow's End lacks the particular "strangeness" and humour of science fiction - no aliens to illuminate the human condition from a new perspective; no fundamentally new science or technology to invert our ideas. It's pretty straightforward extrapolation.

Maybe it really is written for Hollywood?

Re:Vinge yes, Rainbow's End no....

[savala]

There's a whole lot of science fiction authors who no longer are writing about the (far) future. Ken MacLeod, Kim Stanley Robinson, William Gibson, Vernor Vinge... they've all shifted focus to what's happening in the here and now. The one explanation on this I've seen was in an interview with William Gibson, where he said that the current day had gotten stranger and harder to follow than anything he could imagine or predict for the future.

Vinge's older books might have had a wider scope - been more interesting (something I've seen a whole lot of old-day Vinge fans here at /. say) - but Rainbows End is far more relevant. The underlying world contains much less self-congratulatory "humanity is so great, destined for so much" escapism and much more "look at what we're allowing to happen here, people".

Re:Vinge yes, Rainbow's End no....

[simplerThanPossible]

> The underlying world contains much less self-congratulatory "humanity is so great, destined for so much" escapism and much more "look at what we're allowing to happen here, people".

Yes, science fiction is escapism in that it abstracts problems, and thus clarifies. It's a fable or philosophical tract. eg Orwell's 1984 and Animal Farm. I agree about the underlying world often being positive (which is optimistic and hopeful). Yet the foreground story is often a dire warning about amazing new tech. eg. Frankenstein's monster. eg. A Fire upon the Deep has a theme of humility: be you ever so high, there are higher Powers.

But Rainbow's End isn't a fable and doesn't make a philosophical point (IMHO anyway). heh, I guess the title itself is a little pessimistic...

I agree with your point from William Gibson. Here's a real, current example of a tooth decay cure:

Tooth decay is mostly caused by sucrose, which bacteria process to acid, which attacks the tooth (tooth decay is dramatically lower in ancient skulls, pre-sucrose, and in primitive societies without access to sucrose - this changes when they do get access). Fructose, lactose and other sugars etc aren't processed in this way - it seems that humanity and our bacteria evolved to coexist over time, and refined sucrose is simply too new. So... the cure is a genetically modified version of the same bacteria that doesn't produce the acid. It fills the same niche in the mouth, so won't displace anything else; and produces an antiseptic, which kills rival bacteria in that niche.
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn1941
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_caries#Bacteri a

I can see scope for drama in this scenario... but admit it: tooth decay immunity would be awesome!

You mistake the message

[abb3w]

Success isn't really about schooling, it's about intelligence.

Success isn't really about either schooling or intelligence; it's about learning. The life story of Robert Gu is one example: pre-Alzheimers, he's a creative genius, but an utter failure as a human being.

Of course, your confusion on this point is understandable. The singularity threshold society Vinge depicts seems to have figured out how to ensure schooling equates with learning, which is a case of A Sufficiently Advanced Technology if I've ever heard of one.

I am Legend

[Valdrax]

Vampires? Fantasy and vampire books do not belong in the Hugos.

Vampires have been given the science fiction treatment before. Read "I am Legend" (1954) by Richard Matheson sometime. It's a survival horror story about the last living human in a world filled with vampires in the wake of a nuclear war.

If you haven't read Matheson's work, you should. He's won practically ever non-mainstream fiction award there is from the Hugo to the Nebula to the Edgar to the Golden Spur.

Izzat so?

[Valdrax]

Success isn't really about schooling, it's about intelligence.

Explain our President, then.

Prometheus Award

[theefer]

I was at the worldcon and he told me that he was surprised too, and the only reason he had won was because they couldn't give it to Ken McLeod this time around because he hadn't published any book that year. And yes, I was also disappointed that he didn't win the Hugo with Glasshouse.

Heroes

[kastandlee]

While the Hugo Awards for Best Dramatic Presentation, Short Form are for individual episodes, many people have made the case that each season of Heroes is actually one long multi-part story, and multi-part stories can be nominated as a single dramatic unit. For instance, if enough people thought the entire season of Heroes was a single serialized dramatic unit and nominated in Best Dramatic Presentation, Long Form, it seems likely that it would be placed on the ballot in that category.