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Broadcasters Oppose Wireless Net Service

kaufmanmoore writes "The AP reports that the National Association of Broadcasters is launching ads to target lawmakers over a push by a consortium of technology companies including Google, Intel, HP, and MSFT who want to use unused and unlicensed TV spectrum (the so-called 'white space') for wireless broadband. Broadcasters are airing concerns about the devices creating interference with broadcast television. In a statement, NAB chairman Alan Frank takes a swipe at technology companies: 'While our friends at Intel, Google and Microsoft may find system errors, computer glitches and dropped calls tolerable, broadcasters do not.'"

21 of 146 comments (clear)

  1. If broadcasts are so critical, how come.... by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    During the football (that's football, not soccer) season games are played every week with running commentary and everything runs just fine.

    Then the SuperBowl comes along and everything turns glitchy.

    How come broadcasters who think they are the end-all and be-all of reliability can't get this most important of games broadcast without problems?

    1. Re:If broadcasts are so critical, how come.... by purpledinoz · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Judging by the recent actions by the NAB, they are against anything that is competition to terrestrial radio. They are fiercely against the merger of XM and Sirius and have spent $4 million to lobby against the XM/Sirius merger. The NAB is hoping to block the Sirius/XM merger, in hopes that they will both go under (both are taking heavy losses). This new "whitespace" is a potential problem to terrestrial radio because people would be able to Internet radio over the airwaves: additional competition. Lets face it, regular radio is very repetitive, full of ads, and not very entertaining. We need MORE competition.

  2. Sounds like Bull to me by Kryptonian+Jor-El · · Score: 5, Interesting

    What do the broadcasters have against this proposal REALLY. They don't honestly think that this will cause interference. What is really in it for them for opposing this? Working with the Telcos now?

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    1. Re:Sounds like Bull to me by ichigo+2.0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Probably want the unlicensed spectrum for themselves.

    2. Re:Sounds like Bull to me by SuperQ · · Score: 3, Interesting

      True, a lot of wide bandwidth data will raise the noise floor in the spectrum, but the power limits for this "unused" spectrum will be in the milliwatt range.. DTV stations transmit in tens to hundreds of kilowatts. A lot of what hams are using the HF range for is fairly weak signal compared to what DTV stations are using. The max power a single ham station can use is 1500 watts.. most are only 100 watts tho.

      This is besides the fact that the FCC rules for this spectrum use dictate that stations must detect DTV and notch their TX out of any DTV in the air.

  3. Hrumph by ChoralScholar · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Cry me a river, broadcasters. Communications legislation in America crazy-favors the local broadcaster and cable companies (See SHVA/SHVERA). This is just more "I don't wanna do anything new" rhetoric from these whiny network affiliates.

  4. TV quality by maniac/dev/null · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Considering the garbage that these TV companies put on the air waves, I wouldn't mind if OTA television was wiped out entirely. Hell, if the old TV stations still own the licenses on the spectrum, why not convert to wireless TVoIP business models?

    1. Re:TV quality by antdude · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Wipe out entirely? Are you nuts? I don't want to subscribe to cable, satellite, etc. I like OTA since it's free, and its HDTV is higher quality and satellite and cable from what I read.

      --
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    2. Re:TV quality by Tim+C · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Be careful what you wish for, as the same applies many, many times over to the web. The proportion of generally interesting, worthwhile websites is much smaller than that of generally interesting, worthwhile TV programs.

  5. Oh Yea?? by snowraver1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    'While our friends at Intel, Google and Microsoft may find system errors, computer glitches and dropped calls tolerable, broadcasters do not.'"
    I would bet dollars to doughnuts that google has a higher uptime then their tv station. How many times have you been watching the TV and there is dead air for like 30 secs? How about watching a news broadcast and one of the mics isn't turned on. But more closely related to the article, I'm sure that the Broadcasters would oppose this even if it didn't screw with thier signals at all. Noone solely boradcasts anymore, they also sell thier service to cable companies and satellite. The cable company doesn't want a free wireless setup to compete with thier current duopoly. Therefore it is in the intrest of the broadcaster to help the cable company do well so it buys it's product.
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  6. Those were the days... by djupedal · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Gosh, Dad...it looks like we're the first family in the neighborhood to have a TV antenna on our roof!"

    "Right, Alan - this is the newest thing. Now we can pull in another 4 channels, and one of them is supposed to be showing at least an hour of VibraColor every Friday!"

    ...........later, after the family has had their dinner, and Alan's mother finishes washing the dishes, little Alan sits down in front of the Frank family's new Westinghouse 14" ChromaColor television while his father finishes connecting the also new roof aerial to the back of the glowing set.

    "While our neighbors may find it easy to put up with ghosting, rolling images and static..." Mr. Frank said to Alan, "...the Franks do not. One day, Son, everyone will enjoy color TV the way it was meant to be. Why, I bet they'll have at least twenty channels fifty years from now. Imagine!"

    "And since you're sitting right in front of it, flip the channel to six, Alan...careful - clockwise! Boxing starts in ten minutes! Marge - is that cake ready, yet? All this work & I'm still hungry!."

  7. They Are Telling The Truth by Nymz · · Score: 5, Funny

    Allowing others to make use of the white-spaces will create plenty of interference. Because any type of new communication or service will become and indirect competitor, and thus interfer with the broadcasters market and bottom-line.

  8. Broadcast TV is dead by heptapod · · Score: 3, Informative

    Satellite and cable are how people get their TV fix nowadays because of the variety and quality of signal. Plus the fed are going to force everyone to go digital come 2009.

  9. This just in... by symbolset · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Cable companies also oppose municipal fiber internet.

    Cry me a river. You had your chance to help. Now get out of the way.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
  10. Running for President by zoomshorts · · Score: 4, Funny

    I am running for President of the US on MySpace. Vote for me.

    My main thrust is lobbiests, they need to go away. The only
    lobbies that should exist are those that we all may find ourselves
    in, like the lobby for the aged or for the infirm(handicapped).
    All the rest need to be outlawed. Period.

    I would re-instate the original FCC charter with minor mods to
    take into account the technilogical changes that have happened
    since the 1900's. I would make the field level for all, and discount
    monied interests nearly 100 percent.

    Vote for Zoomshorts !!!

    Plus I have some really cool fachist(sp) leanings too.

    When politicials are talking, they are lying. I lie daily!
    You all should feel right at home.

  11. Re:Alan Frank, You Have Nothing. by hernick · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Broadcast isn't a waste a spectrum. Consider a broadcast TV station that can reach a half a million homes, with a few thousand TVs tuned in at any given time. How could "pull" save any spectrum?

    Also, "pull" would be completely impractical for TV and radio broadcasts over-the-air - how would the TV request a particular channel? It would need a way to contact the broadcaster and request a channel - meaning it would need a powerful, expensive transmitter.

    I'll tell you what's a waste of spectrum though: analog TV and radio. Digital transmissions use up a lot less spectrum. At least, in the USA, analog broadcast TV is going away - but I figure AM and FM are here to stay; the installed device base is enormous.

  12. It is bull, here is why: by Gary+W.+Longsine · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Anything the broadcasters can do, a packet network can do better. A new wireless broadband network which spanned the country threatens to not only provide entirely new services which could beam a Star Trek like future right into your pocket, but also to slurp the last bit of creme from their audiences. The broadcasters know they are not innovative enough to survive a technology revolution like this. They will be relegated to milking the declining revenue streams from their aging content libraries, until, finally, they are no longer relevant and have no influence. They will be bought by Google or some upstart that hasn't been founded yet.

    --
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  13. Maybe because it did in the tests by Moraelin · · Score: 4, Informative

    Just a thought, maybe it's because the initial demo by those companies created plenty of interference? It's easy to take a jab at the broadcasters, but I'd be worried there too. Yes, it can be designed to minimize interference, but I too would first like to see the model which indeed does that.

    Then those companies said, basically, "yeah, well, you should ignore that 'cause the device was just deffective." Well, then show me the model which isn't. Also, did they test it? If they can't take a demo to the FCC seriously enough to have a fully tested prototype, it doesn't exactly inspire confidence... yet.

    Also show me that you've fixed that mode of failure. If a device can just fail in a mode that jams two adjacent TV channels, I'd worry too.

    To give an example from another wave band and type, imagine that a disco opens across the road from your house. Yes, it can be soundproofed to hell and back, but I'd like them to do that first, not just remain at the "it could be done" stage. If the first test could be heard from a mile, dunno about you, I'd probably be at the head of the medieval mob with torches and pitchforks trying to get them out of town.

    And, honestly, the computer-related companies _do_ have a track record of pushing unsafe or untested stuff out the door. Tell anyone who's seen a Windows computer get pwned in 10 minutes flat after connecting to the internet that they should _totally_ trust MS to have their broadcasting equipment fail-safe.

    Google is any better only because they stuck to the "but it's only a beta!" defense for how many years now? In any other tech company, going productive with a beta would be called irresponsible. My boss would probably have my head for lunch if I told him "it's just a beta" about a version that got deployed.

    At any rate, it's again a culture that doesn't inspire confidence when it comes to other domains. If they can run their search engine as a beta and tweak it as it goes, more power to them, but it's not a model I'd want in something that broadcasts stuff. Or generally in anything that involves a physical product. If their page rank algorithm fails it's just a "teh oops" moment, and they'll tweak it some more again. If such a broadcasting device fails, it jams two adjacent TV stations. It's just not the same thing.

    Heck, even in software it becomes an unworkable model if you move out of the free-services-over-the-net arena. If you shipped an OS by the "it's just a beta" philosophy, you'd probably do worse than even MS. Remember, MS at least has the policy of never shipping with known bugs. But even just the unknown ones caused the pwnage-fest when connected to the Internet. Now imagine it shipped as a beta.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  14. This is not about signals, it's about viewers by tiqui · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Broadcasters can whine about this and try to convince lawmakers (most of whom are tech-dumb lawyers) that this is all about protecting the radio frequency spectrum, but this is BUNK, Just as the FCC claims its regulation of computers is about protecting the spectrum is also BUNK.

    If the FCC was REALLY about protecting the spectrum, then they would require some of the worst RF noise emitters (electric razors, light dimmers, lawnmowers, etc.) to be certified. There is a lot of money and prestige in regulating computer technology and none in regulating cheap low-tech devices. As long as they regulate important whizz-bang things like TV, radio, and computers, congress sees reasons to fund them at current levels. If they were the regulators of razors and light dimmers they might have less respect and lower budgets.

    Similarly, the broadcasters are not worried about the spectrum (which sounds important and high-tech); This is about trying to keep from losing even more viewers (and the associated ad and/or subscriber revenue). Everybody knows that younger people are getting more of their entertainment from interactive web-based sources (news from the web, online games, etc) and this trend will likely SKYROCKET if low-cost high-speed net access becomes too available. Any roadblock they can throw-up will help hold back the tidal wave of losses.

    Watch-out whenever somebody tells you that he, like some knight in shiny armor, is a defender-of-the-spectrum, (defender of the faith... protector of the realm... ) and all that stands between you and electromagnetic chaos. If he has a financial interest in the outcome then he probably is in it for the cash.

  15. This is so old ... by ScrewMaster · · Score: 3, Insightful

    1. NAB opposes [anything new].

    2. TV studios oppose {anything new].

    3. RIAA opposes [anything new].

    4. Music studios oppose [anything new].

    5. MPAA opposes [anything new].

    6. Movie studios oppose [anything new].

    7. FCC [still hasn't got a clue]

    Nothing new under the Sun, I guess.

    --
    The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  16. Dissenting view - I agree with him by mwillems · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I am afraid I actually agree with him.

    Background: As an ex telecommunications engineer I know about reliability; as a radio ham I know about interference.

    With that background, I am afraid it seems to me that he may have a good point that some industries tolerate failure (Vista bluescreens on me several times a month), while others do not - your (wired) phone, for instance, always works. A public telehpone switch or a TV transmitted do not need "reboots" - a reboot of a phone switch can take hours, so it is engineered to not need them.

    So while there is a legitimate question about the validity of broadcasting TV, the fundamental point, that while it exists interference should not be tolerated, is valid. It took decades to get to reliable TV transmission, and that can all bre broken very quickly.

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