Compiz Gets Thumbs-Up for Gutsy Gibbon

Da Chronic writes "After a vigorous debate at the last Ubuntu Technical Board meeting, the board decided to ship Ubuntu 7.10 with Compiz enabled by default. The decision was made despite the fact that Compiz still has some significant issues relating to drivers and Xorg. 'For instance, there are some problems — like accelerated video playback issues with Intel drivers — that can only be resolved by using the EXA accelerated rendering framework which is still not ready yet. When asked why Intel isn't addressing the driver issue, technical board member Mathew Garrett explained that "Intel are working on the basis that composited desktops won't be ready for rolling out until EXA is stable enough anyway, so it's not a concern [for them].' In the end, all but one member voted to include Compiz in Gutsy."

Comments

and Compiz is what again?

[ickypoo]

Here's your wikipedia. Thanks, submitter.

Compiz is one of the first compositing window managers for the X Window System that uses 3D graphics hardware to create fast compositing desktop effects for window management.

Re:and Compiz is what again?

[pebs]

Look at how long the submission is. Why would you make it even longer by including a definition of what a relatively popular software component is? You might as well include definition for Ubuntu, Gutsy, and Xorg while you're at it.

Keep up with the times or use Google/Wikipedia when you don't know what something is (like you just did).

Re:and Compiz is what again?

[xenocide2]

Actually, I'd say the technology is being tried by nearly every desktop user. And subsequently disabled. My roommate turned it off because it was too distracting. I keep it off because it tends to freeze X on me on feisty.

It's neat, but I suspect that it's not very well engineered.

Re:and Compiz is what again?

[Alioth]

It's unstable and it hangs X.org. I disabled it within half an hour of trying it.

Re:and Compiz is what again?

[xenocide2]

If you want examples, look at the bug list for compiz. 175 bugs. You can't even configure compiz by default, beyond "none, some, and more". The fire module tends to choke up starting apps that start maximized. The optional preferences manager in universe hates gconf. And it doesn't even call the burn module by the same name, sometimes calling it fire. And of course, it breaks GL apps that don't do some fullscreen magic. It resets your number of workspaces to 1, and doesn't replace them with viewports. But most of all, it won't really work out of the box in most cases. They try to detect when it won't work and prevent it from activating in those situations. Only the Intel integrated stuff will likely be able to handle it out of the box. Compiz won't be enabled by default if you upgrade, I hear.

These are nitpicks and serious bugs I've found while testing for a few hours. Most are already in launchpad. Bugs don't go away because you don't like me. If you want people like me to go away, report and fix bugs. There's nothing wrong with the software existing -- it's a great tool to experiment with, and impress people. And it's certainly better than what Vista provides. I just think it's important to provide people with a flawless experience out of the box, and let them explore the more adventurous packages Ubuntu provides at leisure.

What's worrying me...

[Anonymous Coward]

What name will they use for the release that comes after the "zesty zebra" release?!?

Re:What's worrying me...

[everphilski]

What name will they use for the release that comes after the "zesty zebra" release?!?

anonymous anorexic anacondas

Re:What's worrying me...

[shaitand]

'Nah, they'll use "Hungry Hungry Hippo", once it becomes bloated with other stuff like this that new users won't likely use.'

You don't think users will use a 3D accelerated desktop? Forget the breathtaking effects this brings, the performance makes 2D X look slow and crappy.

Re:What's worrying me...

[jemenake]

What name will they use for the release that comes after the "zesty zebra" release?!?

"[rusty [urmudgeon", followed by "/ntelligent /rma", and then "]azzy ]ason".

Re:What's worrying me...

[thegnu]

I said new users. More experienced users would likely use this technology.
I have to agree with GP. In my experience, although the 3d effects aren't implicitly useful, they tended to make my computer FEEL more interactive, and I tended to feel less tired after using the computer.

Which I guess sounds weird. Maybe I can get a government grant to study wobbly windows.

Re:What's worrying me...

[sootman]

I'm just happy this release wasn't 'glistening goatse'. *shudder*

Compiz is...?

[BloodyIron]

Sorry, pardon my ignorance, but what is Compiz?

Perhaps giving a brief description of what Compiz does in the article is in order?

Don't get me wrong, I would consider myself a fairly adept GNU/Linux user, but that does not necessarilly mean I know everything :/

Help computer...

Re:Compiz is...?

[mrchaotica]

It's like Beryl. Hope that helps! ; )

Re:Compiz is...?

[BloodyIron]

yeah, i've been trying to post an appology outlining that my original post was being written as the original reply was being posted, i didnt see it.

sorry.

Re:Compiz is...?

[eln]

This is simply unacceptable behavior for a Slashdot reader. You never admit that you were wrong, and you certainly never apologize. Next time, reply with something like "The article was Slashdotted, you insensitive clod!"

I'll forgive you this time, though.

Re:Compiz is...?

[Adult film producer]

here, watch it.. better than any wordy description.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4Fbk52Mk1w

Re:Compiz is...?

[El Lobo]

Compiz is the thing that MS gets criticized to death when they dare to use it in their OS (called sometimes bloat, or stupid effects, shit, etc), and that is critically aclaimed when Apple, some Linuzzz distro or use it in their distributions.

Re:Compiz is...?

[someone1234]

One thing you forgot, in M$Win it would be enabled by default, and wired in without any chance to remove it.
With Linux, you at least get a chance to find a distro without it, or be able to remove it completely .

Re:Compiz is...?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not certain as I am still kinda new here...

You must be new... Ah, yes you've already admitted that. The GP (that means 'grandparent post' in /. speak) was being silly, although this is a prime example of 'never a truer word spoken in jest.' Most people on /. find it very difficult to admit when they're wrong, that's why that post has been modded-up: 'funny'.

There are a number of other things you should know about /. particularly all the in-jokes: Natalie Portman, hot grits, in Soviet Russia, Steve Ballmer's chair fixation the list goes on. If you don't understand one of these, don't ask, you'll probably get modded-down, the maxim here is: 'Just fucking Google it.'

Another thing: you may note that I am posting as 'Anonymous Coward', this is because I am a 'Karma whore' (a concept you will soon become familiar with). I cannot post as my normal account because this post will probably be--rightfully--modded 'offtopic' and that would damage my karma. So welcome to /. ! Hope you enjoy your time here, mind out for trolls, and may your karma be as great as your intellect.

Re:Compiz is...?

[sYkSh0n3]

MS gets criticized because when they implement it, it hogs system resources and requires bleeding edge hardware to run. My 6 yr old computer will run Beryl with no effect on system performance, but i can't turn on the effects in Vista without my computer slowing to a crawl. (i tried to run it for 30 days so when i said how horrible it was, i could give examples from personal experience. i only made it 10 days, but i got plenty to bitch about.)

Re:Compiz is...?

[Reverend528]

but not with the detailed configurability of Beryl

or the stability of all of those window managers that don't do the worthless fancy stuff.

Re:Compiz is...?

[QuantumRiff]

Guide to Slashdot Etiquette

Never Ever Read the Articles.. That is for people with time to spare, and we are busy geeks..

Never Admit Being wrong, Just post that your being misunderstood, and what you were trying to say was....

If there have been more than 4 articles about google or apple this week, we hate them!

If the day ends in "Y" you hate microsoft

Corollary to above, If you post a genuinely well thought out, insightful comment about maybe MS is not all that bad This time you will be marked as Troll or Flamebait.

If a post is made by a "4 digit" user, even if they claim the Iraq war was started by Ceasar in 42BC, for control of the moon and the entrances to the caverns beneath the earth were the Hobbits live, you may never comment against them, or mod them down..

Funny Beats Intelligent comments any day.. (see this comment for reference, which is also a reference to the next rule!)

Last and most important, always try to Karma Whore!

Re:Compiz is...?

[StalinsNotDead]

Just post that your being misunderstood

In addition to these suggestions:

Never use the contraction you're, no one will understand you

it's is possessive

alot is one word

there, their and they're are interchangable

you dinfinately hang lose and loose your car keys

Re:Compiz is...?

[Techman83]

I actually use it on a daily basis and some would think it is bloat, but actually my notebook is a whole lot more responsive, longer battery time (more so than the windows xp that was on it and longer than default window manager) and I also am a whole lot more productive. I can monitor many terminals at once in real time just by the flick of the wrist, very very handy!

Bloat++

[zblach]

guh. Why not make a package w/ auto-configurable scripts available for install? Put a box in adept, or something "Click here for flashy graphics!!11". I run Kubuntu because I like having a *nix compatible desktop, not because I want another toy. I understand that some people are turned to linux for stability, and some for flashy graphics, but why include by default? Aero competition? Hope it's easily (and completely) removable. -z

Re:Bloat++

[notthe9]

No one is hiding a root password from anyone. Ubuntu by default install with no root account. The idea is that you will do all your administrative stuff using sudo. You can easily enable the root account with the password of your choice.

As to removability, I would assume a single apt-get call or a couple clicks in a graphical window manager will remove Compiz completely. (You'd sudo the tasks if you are not root.)

Re:Bloat++

[Zonk (troll)]

I imagine it would be easy to remove if they just gave us the root password.... (or am i getting my distros mixed up?) sudo passwd

Now you have a root password.

Still, to disable Compiz all you'd have to do is click on "System"->"Preferences"->"Desktop Effects" and press the "Enable Desktop Effects" toggle button. No password required (it's a per user setting).

If you want to completely remove Compiz from the system, just click on "System"->"Administration"->"Synaptic Package Manager". Type in your password, and then do a search for "desktop-effects" and "compiz-core" (all over compiz packages depend on this, so removing it will remove them as well) and remove them.

Re:Bloat++

[MMC Monster]

It's not that there is no root account. There is a root account that cannot be logged into without first setting a password (using sudo from a user account that is allowed to run sudo).

The idea is that no one needs to be root except to run particular commands (using sudo or gksudo). If you do need to run root you will create the root password and log in as root and be able to shoot yourself in the foot if you point the run in the wrong direction (ie: rm -R /. instead of rm -R ./).

Re:Bloat++

[GrubInCan]

Export AWT_TOOLKIT=MToolkit

seemed to fix it for me

to boldly go...

[downix]

or to crash and burn, that is the question. Ubuntu might be making a brave move, or a bad move, but only time will tell. If their gamble pays off, they might be on the cutting edge, and with a marketable, noticeable advantage. If not, well... there's always Knoppix.

well...

[Anonymous Coward]

as long as that "fallback configuration tool" that was linked here a few weeks ago works properly, i guess it shouldnt cause too many problems. lets hope that the installer will intelligently choose the correct manager.

Re:i for one

[Anonymous Coward]

> welcome our gusty gisbo overlords.

We set AC up with the perfect opportunity for a Goatse Gibbon, or a Gutsy Goatse, or a Goatse's Guts, and he swings and misses.

*sigh*

Re:I don't get it

[SlashdotOgre]

I've been running Compiz in its various forms (compiz-quinnstorm, beryl, now compiz-fusion) on Gentoo since around March of 2006, and while I can see where you're coming from I have found some of its features actually useful. The ones I particularly like are: the expose clone (google 'expose mac to see what I'm referring to), the live alt-tabs (you see what's running in the alt-tab windows), it allows for extensive key bindings (I know you can use other programs like xbindkeys, but it at least beats Metacity's binding capability), and transparency (compiz isn't required to do this, but it makes it a lot easier than other WM's -- basically it's designed with that in mind).

Most of the eye candy doesn't eat too much CPU, and it all easily be enabled and disabled from it's control panel (compiz-fusion uses ccsm which works great, beryl-settings-manager was also pretty good). I was also impressed by beryl-manager (now fusion-icon) which made switching windows and decoration managers easier than ever.

Re:I don't get it

[kerohazel]

For me it's a convenient way to answer someone who asks me "Linux? Why do you use _Linux_?"

Not much of a meaningful answer, but then again when posed like this it's not really a meaningful question.

General public

[general_public]

general public is not going to buy into this.

Actually I love Ubuntu and am looking forward to upgrading to Gutsy when it comes out.

Re:I don't get it

[ericrost]

Maybe this'll help, with a decent 3d graphics chipset, it makes the desktop more responsive by offloading the desktop rendering to the GPU completely.

Re:Does Beryl = Compiz now?

[Nimey]

The old Compiz team is concentrating on the Compiz-Fusion core, while the old Beryl team is concentrating on the plugins (eye candy goodness).

So, Compiz + Beryl == Compiz Fusion.

Re:I don't get it

[Nutty_Irishman]

I originally thought the same thing with Beryl (the breakoff from Compiz, which is now remerging into compiz-fusion), and thought, "hey it looks nice, but that's about it". I left it installed on my machine as it was pretty stable and didn't see a need to remove it. After a while I started rearranging and managing my desktop-- all development work in one window, terminal windows in another, email/web browser in another, and the last for visualization apps (imageJ, matlab, etc.). It wasn't until I had all four desktops being active used that I realized how much easier it was to multitask with a more sophisticated windows manager. I could actively switch between desktops fast, drag and drop items from one desktop to the other, separate global and local task switchers-- all much faster and with less downtime than before. Now I find it rather limiting to use a linux box that doesn't have it installed.

The only thing really holding it back is the stability issues (my desktop has no problems, but my laptop crashes at least once a day with it enabled). It doesn't hurt to install it and give it a try-- if you don't find it useful at first but it runs stable, then leave it installed-- you might come back and find it useful someday.

View from the bottom

[fishthegeek]

I teach at a technical high school, and I use Ubuntu, Vista, XP, and OS X in the course for integration lessons. The kids Ooooh at Vista and OS X but when they discover that Ubuntu can do compositing in a flashier way (with Compiz Fusion) than either of the other two platforms and that it is free they immediately ask for one of the Ship it CDs that I happen to keep around.

I'm not saying that I evangelize Linux but since it is free, and I do teach it I find it very convenient to be able to just furnish them a copy on the spot. Flashy sells. It sells cars, bombers and hookers why not use it to sell an OS? Before anyone posts a response about bloat please remember that these are primarily 15 year old kids and the concepts of bloat are just academic to them. They won't care about bloat until they are running their own network.

Re:View from the bottom

[sharkey]

They won't care about bloat until they are running their own network.

Or until they find it in one of the hookers you mentioned.

Re:I don't get it

[Trifthen]

Did you run top while using Compiz? I'd think letting the video-card handle all the effects (vid cards these days handle games with requirements far more brutal than a wussy little desktop) would be way more efficient than rectally violating the CPU. I've seen X bolt to the top of my CPU lists frequently, and I just roll my eyes every time.

I've actually been waiting for it to stabilize and for Compiz and Beryl to quit arguing amongst themselves for just this reason. The eye candy is nice, but I just want a system that doesn't throw a tantrum because I'm desktop-switching. From the Google videos I've seen of Compiz in action, that doesn't look like a problem.

Stability Now

[keithjr]

Depending on how stable all related drivers and devices are by the time Gutsy rolls out, this may very well be the worst thing that could happen to Ubuntu since that bad Xorg update last year.

Ubuntu is cherished by new-to-linux users as being zero-configuration and extremely hardware-compatible. Now they are introducing features which may fail to work with certain hardware. Why on earth would they do this?!

Why is it Intel's problem?

[LWATCDR]

They have released the docs for their GPU. I have been told time and time again on Slashdot that all that has to happen is to document your hardware and a legion of FOSS programmers will write a better driver than you could.
So why does Intel need to address anything?

Re:Why is it Intel's problem?

[LWATCDR]

So without the company that created the hardware dedicating resources to a driver project the driver may or not be done in a timely manner.
So if a company wants their driver in the Kernel they will have to not just release the documentation but dedicate programming staff to the project. So they pretty much have to make the same effort as they would with a closed source driver but also prepare the documentation, manage the open source contributions if they get any, and make sure that their software is legally clean to publish as open source.
So what I am hearing is that I shouldn't hold my breath for those new good FOSS drivers for ATI.

Re:Why is it Intel's problem?

[krmt]

I hope you're not trolling here. X.org has very few contributors as a whole. Maybe 20 or so, with about half who do real work on the graphics drivers. That's really not very many for such a large amount of code. So no, I'm sorry to break it to you, but there's no armies of experienced graphics driver coders just itching to write those drivers. If you believe that then you're living in a fantasy land.

On the flip side, it's becoming easier and easier to get involved, for those who are interested. XFree86's project management effectively prevented a community of graphics driver coders from forming in the same way that a community of kernel driver coders did. This was compounded by the fact that graphics chip specs have long been withheld, making it difficult for new people to get on board. Many people have asked over the years on the X.org devel list about how to help with driver development, and even though they've been pointed to some information by the community, there's been very little available for them to get going. This has been a serious problem. Luckily, the formation of X.org has solved the first problem, and now with Intel providing well documented drivers and ATI providing specs we should see people who want to learn have that ability to contribute.

Opening up the specs is, as has been said so many times before, no panacea, but Intel has benefited very noticeably by opening up their development process. They've gained a lot of goodwill and undoubtedly a lot of customers who just want the best Free drivers available. AMD stands to gain the same, which is something they simply can not get if they keep things closed. So there's a real tangible monetary benefit to opening up the process so that the community can contribute. The result of this is that people from several groups including AMD, SuSE, Redhat, and Tungsten Graphics will be working on the new driver (many of these people are the current ati driver maintainers, so they're seasoned and knowledgeable) so I wouldn't worry about manpower there.

Finally, it's very important to note that Intel itself doesn't maintain the driver that gets shipped in your distro, X.org does. Intel employs a lot of people to help maintain it, but they do their maintainance on X.org machines. So anyone who's a X.org developer (and you can become one the same way you can in other free software projects) can become an intel driver maintainer, even if they're not employed by Intel. So if you want to contribute to the driver and other components needed to make the composited linux desktop a reality, you can do so. Intel isn't stopping you, nor is anyone else.

Re:I don't get it

[Constantine XVI]

They did quit arguing. Beryl is merging back into compiz as compiz-fusion.

s/compiz/kwin/

[DreadSpoon]

You realize that Kwin is including all of the 3D graphical foofah in new versions, right? Compiz is a WM that you can swap out with Metacity (or anything else) whenever you want, but your desktop is coming with the special effects built-in to the default window manager.

Thankfully, you're using KDE, so you'll have at least 8 checkboxes to disable it. ;)

Re:This is just typical stupid Canonical thinking

[diegocgteleline.es]

Compiz disables automatically in computers that doesn't have enought horsepower to run it.

Compiz-Fusion is of value even without the fancy..

[Vspirit]

Since the 3D engine and direct rendering features accelerate rendering windows, toolbar, systray etc.. it ought to be of value to all, even the X users that only use X to open terminal windows and|or use multiple monitors. (most of you guys use web browser also anyways).

I have not yet used compiz-fusion, although I have made sure the graphics card and the freebsd+xorg installation are prepared, when I do I sure hope that it is fairly simple to install a configuration that can be stripped down, so only the the cpu+mem eating code that are needed to render window, toolbar, systray and alike are active, making it efficient. Then I hope it is also easy to enable/disable simple features that suits my liking, with and option to save and switch between different profiles.

But I still wonder if what I dream of is simply a fairytale, or whether this can be expected?

PureEyeSugar

[Nosklo]

OOOOOHHH!!! My Eyes! They have Diabetis now! Too much candy!!

Yikes

[massysett]

If there has to be "vigorous debate" about something like this, then it is not ready to be turned on by default, plain and simple. The article says the developers don't know how stable Compiz-Fusion is, because they don't have data, etc. But they have doubts, which is all that matters. It would be fine to go forward with turning it on by default if all the devs ran it and none experienced any problems. Instead, there are known problems (such as this Intel problem) and some of the devs acknowledge that the thing can crash once a DAY, which is consistent with other experiences I have read as well.

New users (Ubuntu's target, I believe) will try Ubuntu, see this thing crashing all the time, and think "why did my geek friend tell me this Linux is more stable than Windows? My XP doesn't crash once a day."

One dev said "if we don't get it out there at some point it'll never get good enough." I don't see how foisting it on new users will help get it into shape. Are the Compiz-Fusion devs not busy enough already? There are apparently already KNOWN ISSUES that aren't being fixed, so how is turning it on by default going to improve anything? It surely will not generate better bug reports--new users will not know Compiz-Fusion is the problem; how are they going to bugreport it?

I hope Compiz-Fusion shapes up soon or that Ubuntu reverses itself; if not, this release will be a slide backward for many users--it will resemble Vista: a release with lots of paint, but with no improvements under the surface.

Re:Yikes

[xenocide2]

If we don't get it out it'll never be good enough
The basic idea here is that by shipping it with bugs, you'll motivate a few people who wouldn't have otherwise used it to investigate. In some cases, this is true. But realistically, we're not sitting on a pile of unused openGL / video driver development talent. Any such slack was picked up by Intel and put to work on what they felt pressing, and as such is not available to meet Canonical's unpaid requests.

We don't even know how bad it is
There are 150 open bugs against compiz, and only 3 labelled critical. But we really don't know how perception of compiz affects bug reporting. We know not all bugs found are reported by it's finder. It's possible that compiz is known to be unstable and rather than report, people just disable and get on with life, assuming compiz stability will continue to be a back burner issue. Dropping compiz into gutsy by default would likely expose more users to bugs.
This exposure is theoretically what testing is for, but for various reasons, hasn't come to fruition. One is that upgrades don't enable compiz. Another is that people come to testing not for Ubuntu's sake but for theirs. They're interested in significant new software, or preserving some hardware compatibility.

Or it's simply possible that that's all the bugs there are. But I doubt that.

However
Ubuntu does have a significant support structure in place capable of dealing with all but the most egreious failures (think broken X server pushed out). Launchpad does a good job of searching for duplicate bug reports to bring people together, and test workarounds / patches. It's also got a way to attach to upstream bugs to follow on with. This is good because compiz's bugzilla is a nightmare.

Re:Ubuntu

[digital_rich]

So does your mom... troll.

Re:I don't get it

[kaizokuace]

the major thing i see that this eye candy helps with is smooth fast transitions between tasks and whatnot. Switching desktops or dragging and dropping from one desktop to another is nice when you can see the motion of the desktop 'cube' spinning as you switch. If it just switches with no animation its kind of an abrupt break in your vision and subsequently in your thought process. The animation just makes it easier on your brain which increases productivity. Thats my 2 cents. I'm also an animator and understand how animation interacts with the mind i guess.

Re:Ubuntu

[HermMunster]

He's clueless. Ubuntu is awesome.

Re:Ubuntu

[sootman]

Sorry, I don't have time to read your whole post. Could you summarize your thoughts for me please?

Re:Another stupid name

[freewaybear]

Another stupid name
For another shitty distro. Get with the program folks. The general public is not going to buy into this.
I, for one, don't give a teflon turd about what the general public buys. I like it, and will be using it.

Re:Ubuntu

[Anonymous Coward]

Could you summarize your thoughts for me please?

Microsoft gave me $$$

Yer Maw

[Dogtanian]

So does your mom... troll. I find it strange that this comment was modded "informative".

Mainly because I doubt there's anyone out there that *doesn't* know that his mom sucks :-)