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University of Florida Student Tasered At Political Rally
An anonymous reader writes "During a political rally at the University of Florida, an annoying student was tasered while attempting to ask Senator Kerry (D-MA) some questions regarding the 2004 election. Police are looking into whether excessive force was used to prevent the student from going over his alloted question period." There are also several YouTube videos available of the incident.
His name is Andrew Meyer. Some people are claiming that he is crazy and that police did things by the book. I don't know what to think. Its hard to find neutral information amongst all the people crying "foul".
I'm sure that if it had been someone else speaking besides a presidential candidate, police would not have been there and Andrew would have been just politely asked to stop talking over and over. He probably deserved to be Tasered because he was resisting arrest, but he didn't deserve to be taken away from the mic.
While that kid was kind of annoying, according to the article, he did not warrant use of a taser (at least by the standards of the police station I work for). He was already on the ground, he was already under control. Once the person is down and double cuffed, that should be it, drag his sorry backside out.
Of course, I can see many times where use of a taser is more than justified.
"The argument over which is better, VI or Emacs, is perfectly val*ZZZZAP!!*GUAAAHHHHHGH!*"
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances." Just curious, but how can some of you so callously be willing to deprive someone of the rights that so many people fought and died for? Because he was causing a scene? Big deal, its his right. Because he's press? Big deal, its his right. Numerous times people in the crowd cry out to do something, which any decent lawyer will state is proof that the police were using excessive force. On top of that the officer tells the camera holder to stop recording - at a public forum. You keep saying he got what he deserved - what happens the day when you ask a question and they don't like it? I just hope every soldier in Iraq can smile, knowing that videos like this demonstrate what freedoms they get to dodge bullets for. Thanks for protecting the police state.
It makes me sick that those students didn't rise up against those security guards. Yea yea, you can throw all your bullshit "he deserved it", "your country was founded on this n that" bullshit at me but you know as well as I do that it doesn't stick when we are discussing things situation by situation. Fuck those students, fuck the police, fuck John Kerry. Andrew Meyer didn't deserve what he got and I hope he makes the most of it & knows what kind of a police state he really lives in.
I was a Kerry supporter, and I do believe this person was trying to cause a scene. However, I am continually troubled by the assertion that political figures should always be treated in a certain manner just because they are politicians. Just because the man ran for president, doesn't make a comment or opinion any less valid no matter how annoying or disruptive the average person may view it. We live in a democracy, not a monarchy. In my opinion, dissent is not just a part of a healthy democracy, it is a patriotic exercise. Sure, his comments are annoying and disruptive. Sure, he may not have had a strong political point to make. But this is not my place to decide, and I would prefer it not be up to the police to decide. We are becoming more and more of a police state every day. The thing that disturbs me the most is the way we have accepted it and internalized it to the point of justification. I think America is suffering from battered wife syndrome.
I sometimes wonder if physical intimidation isn't actually more effective than "high tech" stuff like Tasers and mace. Back in the old days, cops knew exactly how to hit people to gain compliance with minimal physical impact -- they knew where it hurt. Guys who took a baton to the solar plexus or a rabbit punch certainly knew that obeying made sense.
Now I'm *not* talking about insane, Rodney King style beatings where baton blows are delivered windmill style, but directed physical blows designed to inflict maximum pain on non-compliant subjects.
What's most disturbing about this video is how utterly ineffective a mass of cops are at subduing a single person, despite having him on the ground. Why couldn't they handcuff him? How did it ever become necessary to hold him down and taser him?
Being a UF student, I have heard plenty about Mr. Meyer before this. He causes problems and does things to get attention. Meyer knew he could cause a scene and once the police got involved he saw an opportunity. He took that opportunity and has now achieved the national attention he sought.
First, this was an event open to the public, but not a public forum. Rules were in place for questioners. He was being led out because he would not relinquish the microphone after being politely asked. He started going peacefully, then began struggling with the campus police which caused them to treat him as hostile. He tried to run back to the microphone and that's when they pinned him down. He started screaming and writhing because the police were holding him down, but he started the tussle. They used the TASER to subdue him without twisting arms other more forceful methods.
The police probably overreacted, but Meyer was at fault. Kerry did ask the police to let him ask the question and he answered it even as they took Meyer away.
Also note how the crowd applauds when he is pulled away from the mike.
The wonderful wisdom of the crowd.
Of course! He was armed with a book so he had to be tasered.
Do you really think that four full grown police man shouldn't have been able to handle this without using excessive force?
OK, OK, the student was annoying. But the police were stupid to use a taser. They didn't need to use that much force. Very bad publicity, probably just the scene the student intended to create. Don't they train police in aikido? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aikido
Birth is the leading cause of death.
At what point exactly did they tell him he was under arrest?
"In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson
A taser is not a punishment
You're right. It's a pain compliance tool. Research tasers - this isn't the barbed style that incapacitates you for a few seconds - it's the localized stun mode designed to get the guy to shut up, listen, and comply. Not a lot different from the cop putting his knee on the back of your head as he cuffs you or locking out your wrist.
He was looking for a bleeding heart reaction - you've been played.
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Made from the freshest electrons.
I believe that in this specific case, the student did have the expected right to be heard. He was invited, along with the rest of the public, to listen to and speak (however indirectly) with Sen. Kerry. He was given the opportunity to speak at the podium (open mic) during a Q&A session.
I could agree with you that the student should/could have released the mic once his allotment of time had been exceeded (if it had, from what I can tell the student had 2 minutes, and had only used just over his first minute). But something that you're missing is that Kerry did attempt to answer his questions and, atleast in my opinion, that should have trumped any 'time' constraint that had been assigned.
Was the student being a dick, sure. Was he being obnoxious, sure. But when did that become grounds for not being given the opportunity to speak at an open forum?
think before you write, it'll save me moderator points.
It has been that way for awhile. Back during the Republican convention for Bush Sr in Houston, the police marched a peaceful AIDS protest into a dead end alley and blocked it off. Then after keeping the protesters trapped (My ex-wife remembers a 60 year old mother of an AIDS victim being prevented from leaving)the police charged in on horseback...right over a die-in (a form of protest where you lay on the ground.) Needless to say people got stepped on...
Ultimately nothing came of it...my ex-wife was the most credible witness because she wrote everything down immediately afterwards and sought medical treatment for where the police baton hit her. She had bone bruises which took months to heal. Oh and btw, she had taken some training on what to say if such an event happened...namely getting hit by police...she was told that she had to verbally say that she was being hurt to the person doing the hitting...guess what...he hit her again...knocked her glasses off making her blind as a bat...
The reason nothing came of it... it was at night and the badge number on the riot gear is in reflective tape....You need a good light source and not really be stressed to see it...
Other people that were more seriously hurt didn't want to testify because they were from out of state....
I was impressed with Sheila Jackson-Lee, who at the time was on Houston City Council. She was one of a few that wanted an inquiry and more details.
Another interesting bit, a couple of Republican friends of my ex-wife were at the convention as attendees and over heard some police officers talking about beating up some queers that night. They didn't think any of their friends would be there, so they didn't tell anyone until afterwards.
To quote Reverend Martin Niemoeller:
"Only one thing, is impossible for god: to find any sense in any copyright law on the planet." Mark Twain
The problem is that at venues like that, and at campaign rallies or other large events (even concerts), the police work closely with the organizers and the event security. While they're not subservient to the organizers, they do listen to them. In fact, the organizers probably had to pay the sheriff's office (or the campus police, or whoever) for the protection. When it works, it works rather well. When it doesn't work, we get something like this.
Not that this is going to be a popular point, but when someone is holding a private event, they have the right to kick you out. This happens at football games or basketball games, and this happens at concerts quite a bit. It can happen just as easily at times at a political event. If they rent the venue and have any barrier for entry (checking student IDs, tickets, whatever), they can throw you out.
When an officer tells you that you have to do something, you must do it.
So, if you are a young woman, and the nice officer tells you to take off your pants, lie down and spread your legs in his back seat, you should just do it, right?
This whole, "THE LEO IS ALWAYS RIGHT" bullshit is, well, bullshit. Face it folks, the cops are out of control. And it is only getting worse and going to continue getting worse.
Not quite "leave him alone" but "That's alright." When I looked at it again, an office first came forward when he mentioned vote suppression in Florida. Perhaps the officer was concerned owing to personal involvement?
We should start a movement for an Amendment to the Constitution guaranteeing the right to resist unlawful arrest. Actually, I'm flabbergasted that this wasn't explicitly included in the original Bill of Rights. I suppose the due process clause and prohibition of illegal seizures sort of imply that there should never be any unlawful arrests in the first place.
This video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bVa6jn4rpE&NR=1 taken from near the rear of the auditorium by a Gainesville Sun reporter shows the protestor being bulldozed toward the door by a really big campus cop (that's an effective technique of you have the beef to do it), after he's already refused to leave and broken free of the two who he kept brushing off as he asked his rhetorical questions ... and he fights free of the big guy, heads back into the group of cops and keeps yelling.