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University of Florida Student Tasered At Political Rally
An anonymous reader writes "During a political rally at the University of Florida, an annoying student was tasered while attempting to ask Senator Kerry (D-MA) some questions regarding the 2004 election. Police are looking into whether excessive force was used to prevent the student from going over his alloted question period." There are also several YouTube videos available of the incident.
> Police are looking into whether excessive
> force was used to prevent the student from
> going over his alloted question period
Perhaps they should bring in a similar policy for Oscars acceptance speeches.
simon
Sine the word 'deserve' is going to be used a lot in this one, I'll note that if you purposely watch the Oscars, you 'deserve' whatever lunatic ramblings you are exposed to.
"Sacrifice for the good of The State" - The State
And that's a good thing? The problem that a lot of human rights organizations have with "less then lethal" weapons is that they lower the standard for when force can be applied. Whether or not he deserved to be removed from the room is a subject I'm not going to dwell on. But four officers couldn't remove one college student without using a taser? Give me a fucking break! How did they manage police work before they had tasers?
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
One version the story is that this guy was pushy in getting to the mic and about asking his questions even though they were out of time.
Even if that's the case, there are far better ways to handle a questioner who hogs the stage. Whoever was in charge of that event should have politely interrupted, loudly say "Sorry, we have no time for further questions," and cut the mic off. This was totally uncalled for. The University, a state institution, should get their asses sued off.
---Technology will liberate us if it doesn't enslave us first.
Judging by the video, Meyer isn't even interested in any answers. He just keeps rambling on and doesn't even wait for Kerry to respond. After reading the blurb, I felt sorry for him. After watching the video, I don't anymore.
This is a growing problem with tasers. Law enforcement starts to think that they're harmless tools, which increases the likelihood of use. But, tasers are still somewhat dangerous and even lethal in some cases.
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
I'm sure different police precints are different, but I know at least some of them consider a taser to be only slightly below a firearm and should only be used when the officer feels that either themselves or someone else is in danger. This kid was handcuffed on the floor with 3 (4?) cops on top of him, how could he be a danger to anyone?
Give me a fucking break! How did they manage police work before they had tasers?
With someone who physically fights them, they physically restrain or subdue them. Absent things like tasers, that comes down to much less politically correct methods sometimes. And that results in everything from bruises to dislocated shoulders, and worse. And then people complain about THAT. What you're really asking is whether or not police should ever be able or be obligided to physically control someone's actions or presence. If the answer to that is yes, then we're just splitting hairs over the method... unless, of course, you're a cop, and perhaps you don't actually WANT to have to have a wrestling match with someone who might have an unsheathed knife in their pocket, or who might have open wounds, or who might be shockingly strong, etc.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
So four cops couldn't take down one scrawny journalism student and cuff him without using a god-damn taser? I'll be the first to admit that the kid was trying to get attention by pulling a stunt, however, the actions of these cops are nothing short of barbaric and excessive. These stories of police brutality are getting FAR to common. There is a much larger percent of are police force made up of garbage like these pigs than most people would think.
I caught a glimpse of this kid on the news before I left for work today. While I'm sure that the clip was edited for 'mainstream news', he got going on subjects that were important to him. He was determined to make his statement, and give his views to John Kerry. A statement with a question mark at the end isn't really a question.
If you have ever participated in any town hall style meeting, you generally get one or two questions, then you sit your butt down and let another person have the podium. While I respect this kid's right to expressing his views, there is a whole room full of people who also would like the chance to ask their questions. He was offered the chance to step down several times, and got riled up after they cut the mic.
Now as for the tasering, I didn't see the part between where the mic got cut and he got tased, but given his demeanor around the time his mic got cut, I don't think it was fair for him to force them to pull him off the stage. If you are going to complain about being tasered, make sure that you don't start out by giving them a good reason to be physically pulling you away from the podium in the first place.
As a disclaimer, I generally find the use of tasers to be too rampant. Some crazy guy with a sword in a mall and no pants? Sure taser him (been there, done that. On the safe side of the taser thankfully) Some 12 yr old girl who took a swing at you? Take the hit and cuff her, no taser necessary. I was punched by some 14 yr old kid who flipped out over a breakup with his girlfriend. Even then I didn't need a taser.
The kid in this video? I need to see more of the video.
If you ever want to 'resist' then I highly suggest you just go limp, don't fight back. A limp body is still damned hard to move and makes it much easier for your lawyer to defend you in court than if you run, swing, bite, yell.
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No, first he decided to preach and was warned. If he wanted to address an audience, he should organize his own speech or rally. Then, when warned to ask his question, he continued his preaching. When he finally got around to asking the "question", there were actually a string of questions. He didn't approach the mic to ask a question; he wanted to draw attention to himself and issues that he found important. That wasn't his time to take though, and he was asked to stop. He didn't stop. Did you notice how the audience cheered when the police grabbed him? He was wasting their time and making them look terrible in the process.
While that kid was kind of annoying, according to the article, he did not warrant use of a taser (at least by the standards of the police station I work for). He was already on the ground, he was already under control. Once the person is down and double cuffed, that should be it, drag his sorry backside out.
Of course, I can see many times where use of a taser is more than justified.
"The argument over which is better, VI or Emacs, is perfectly val*ZZZZAP!!*GUAAAHHHHHGH!*"
Tasers can kill people. They should not be used in lieu of muscle and control holds, they should be used when the only other option is lethal force and the cop feels he can use a weapon of less than lethal force to subdue the individual without putting himself or the lives of others at risk.
Cops will taser anyone these days.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances." Just curious, but how can some of you so callously be willing to deprive someone of the rights that so many people fought and died for? Because he was causing a scene? Big deal, its his right. Because he's press? Big deal, its his right. Numerous times people in the crowd cry out to do something, which any decent lawyer will state is proof that the police were using excessive force. On top of that the officer tells the camera holder to stop recording - at a public forum. You keep saying he got what he deserved - what happens the day when you ask a question and they don't like it? I just hope every soldier in Iraq can smile, knowing that videos like this demonstrate what freedoms they get to dodge bullets for. Thanks for protecting the police state.
Being a UF student, I have heard plenty about Mr. Meyer before this. He causes problems and does things to get attention. Meyer knew he could cause a scene and once the police got involved he saw an opportunity. He took that opportunity and has now achieved the national attention he sought.
First, this was an event open to the public, but not a public forum. Rules were in place for questioners. He was being led out because he would not relinquish the microphone after being politely asked. He started going peacefully, then began struggling with the campus police which caused them to treat him as hostile. He tried to run back to the microphone and that's when they pinned him down. He started screaming and writhing because the police were holding him down, but he started the tussle. They used the TASER to subdue him without twisting arms other more forceful methods.
The police probably overreacted, but Meyer was at fault. Kerry did ask the police to let him ask the question and he answered it even as they took Meyer away.
Ugh, these people are drama queens! It's not like there's a fine line between police brutality and rights to free speech and demonstrating. Just always favor the police and get the thing fucking over with. Who cares, it's never going to be me there.
The police handled things appropriately. A man swinging his arms at police as they are trying to escort him out of a venue is a threat to the police. He wasn't, until he resisted beyond reason, under arrest. Maybe he will learn where that line is now.
He was handcuffed, on the ground, with six cops kneeling on him when he was tasered. How was that appropriate?
"Tell me doctor, with all of your defenses, are there any provisions for an attack by killer bees?"
That's a pretty fucking long post you made there, attention whore. Too bad I can't taser you for it.
I can agree that he was resisting arrest, but in this case there was no need for the arrest in the first place. Have we lost all touch with our freedoms that we think we are living in a police state that one can be arrested and detained for a non-threatening reason?
... "I may not agree with what you're saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it!"
Additionally, the senator attempted to answer the student's questions, all the while the police were bent on arresting this guy. If you can make it out in the video, you can see an aid in the background signaling for the police to intervene, something that should NEVER have happened.
At what point has the police become a protector of the elected, nearing gestapo practices, instead of being a protector of the people. If anything, the police should have recognized that they should be protecting the student so that his voice could be heard. Believing contrary to the state is no cause for being silenced.
How does the saying go?
think before you write, it'll save me moderator points.
we're becoming a police state, and this is one of so many contributing factors.
I'm not really clear, here, on how you arrive at that conclusion. The whole point is that we have the freedom to assemble. You know, the freedom to hold an event where people get to do things like take turns talking, if that's the sort of event you want to hold. And someone else decides that your freedom of speech and assembly isn't important, and that he can shout you down and take over the event for his own aggrandizement and 15 minutes of annoying notoriety. It's a "police state" action when law enforcement officers actually act to enforce the laws that are written to prevent people from interfering with your events and rights? If there were no statutes covering things like disturbing the peace, then the officers wouldn't have had the grounds to ask the guy to leave, or to arrest him when he decided to ignore their obligation to uphold those statutes. But there ARE such laws, and this twit clearly knew that he went in there to provoke exactly such a reaction, and he clearly considered the rights of the people gathered there to be secondary to his own need for political theater.
History is full of loudmouths, drunks, disturbed people of all sorts. That's why disturbing the peace is a notion we all understand. But the law works FOR this clown, too. This guy can have his OWN assembly where he DOES get to talk non-stop the whole time if he wants, and if someone decides to stand there trying to shout him down, then HE gets the benefit of the police working for HIM, if that becomes necessary. If he wants to run an event where non-stop interruptions by everyone there is the actual framework of the event, then someone being a blathering jerk, in that context, wouldn't BE disturbing the peace, and there's no need for the officers to act. Save the "police state" hyperbole for when it matters, because trotting it out when someone like this deliberately seeks this sort of action and attention completely cheapens the meaning of that phrase.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
I'm frightened by all the people (90%?) saying the kid got what he deserved being tazed.
What utter bullshit! You guys seem to forget, this was a political rally in a university! What the heck do you think academic freedom is supposed to be about anyway? I remember pretty well when they had that killer Meir Kahane get invited to Cornell U. when I was there, I wish there had been more people like this kid. Maybe he's immature, and a hundred other things but he has balls and he is a presumably a student paying for an education, paying to have Kerry come and to have the privilege to talk back to the Senator. If there is one place that kids MUST NOT BE TAZED it is at political rallies in universities. The idea that a kid has to be educated by corporal and potentially lethal punishment as to where the neocon-sensitized line is in public discourse, is utterly repellent. You expect undergrads to be immature. They are growing their minds. Kids are shown video of how political disobedience and political rallies are often done by people who are getting frog walked away by cops. It is assumed rubber and metal bullets are the province of Myanmar or past South American regimes. Tazers do not feature in the media they are pseudo-educated with, as far as I know they are only on-campus. I think there can be worse things than an unruly but passionate and basically harmless kid talking long. I doubt that is illegal either. And I senators expect this sort of thing. Unless you see someone rushing at the Senator with a knife there is no reason to taze. I'm sorry, I am almost entirely nonpolitical and never was on campus either but there has to be a line drawn. I cannot agree at all with the jerks who say the kid got what he asked for. Imagine what the scene would have been like 10 years ago when tazers were not the fad. This is BAD. It is educating people to be mice. Or if you still don't get it, it is educating people to buy Microsoft, they can't go wrong and what's good for them is good for you. Need I go on? The idea that there needs even to be an investigation is utterly bizarre. This country has gone quite insane, I'm sure.
First of all, he's not a presidential candidate. He's a former presidential candidate. He *is* a senator--he serves the public. What's wrong with taking "two minutes" of his time to ask some questions? I think that some of those questions were a little unfair, and rambled over too many topics. But I wouldn't say he was a raving lunatic either.
And the crowd? A bunch of little proto-nazis as far as I'm concerned. This is UF after all.
I honestly expected the guy to yell out "Help! I'm being repressed" as he was carried out of the room.
"Did you see him repressing me? You saw him, didn't you?"
Reviewing just the first hour of video games.
Ladies and Gentlemen, while I'm sure there is more that meets the eye to this video that shows a very disgusting display of police domination, we still have a Constitutional guarantee of our freedom of speech. He was neither hurting anyone or making threats while on the mic.
He wasn't even totally acting outrageous when the mic was turned off. He was somewhat forcefully escorted out of the room and then being arrested. We need to know, what was his crime for the Arrest to take place. Why, when there were approximately 3 to 5 officers holding this young man on the ground did they then feel there was a need to Taser him.
Where was his aggressive crime that threatened the life of another that would warrant the need for a Taser? According to the limited video, there was none visible.
This appears to be a gross abuse of police force. Many more people should be outraged.
Why is this country so great? It is because men and women before us stepped up to the podiums throughout history to cry out against government, and political individuals. This is why this country is great. But now it appears that to speak out is a crime by the very act of opening your mouth. This is just wrong.
Life takes interesting turns, but the most interest is when you're off the beaten path.
The problem with resisting arrest is that police can walk up to you and decide you smell funny so we're going to arrest you. You, being a good citizen who has done nothing wrong but skip a shower is confused, scared, and angry that s/he is being violated for an unknown reason. Of course the reaction is to struggle.
Now you've been arrested for resisting arrest. Half the time the orig. charges don't stick, are dropped, or just didn't exist to begin with. Brilliant.
You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
I don't mean to suggest that you won't get arrested, charged, or tasered. But if someone manages to record you getting tasered, and you were just sitting there, or completely passive, it will at least net you some points on the blogs when the video hits youtube.
And it will allow your lawyer to say things like, "And here we see a completely passive person being needlessly tasered by over-aggressive police."
Instead of this: "Well, you can see from the angle that my client wasn't actually trying to punch the cop in the face, but was just waving to some friends behind the cop."
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You're sure? Why? Because he's a dick? Maybe you haven't noticed that this isn't the first occurrence of this sort of thing, and not all of them are on youtube. A couple years ago at OSU (columbus, OH), the city finally settled with a student who had been shot in the head with a wooden bullet. She had been unfortunate enough to walk near a party that was too large. As she was walking by, the police shot her in the head with a wooden bullet, giving her brain damage. She wasn't even on the same side of the street as the party.
And this is no shocker. Friends of mine have been maced for the horrific crime of leaving a concert. That's right. There was no altercation, just a croud of people leaving a concert. Apperantly the croud was large enough and the music weird enough to warrant a riot force to be waiting outside the venue, mace at hand. This sort of thing happened on a weekly or monthly basis in columbus.
Wake up. Just because this guy was an annoying prick doesn't mean that the cops don't taser these fucks for shits and giggles. Please don't tell me that the 4 of them didn't have his ass under control.
"Question with boldness even the existence of a god." - Thomas Jefferson
At what point exactly did they tell him he was under arrest?
"In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson
May contain traces of nut.
Made from the freshest electrons.
For your reading pleasure:
Taser S.O.P.:C.Authorization to use:
C.1 To control a dangerous or violent subject when deadly force does not appear to be justified and/or necessary;
C.2If attempts to subdue the subject by other conventional tactics have been, or will likely be, ineffective in the situation at hand; or
C.3If there is reasonable expectation that it will be unsafe for officers to approach within contact range of the subject, see also the Use of Force continuum,
Attachment A.. D. Prohibitions:
D.1The TASER may not be used on individuals who can be controlled by voice command or direction.
D.2The TASER may not be used as punishment or retaliation.
D.3 TASERs will not be used in conjunction with O.C. Spray.
D.4Handcuffed prisoners should not be tased without extenuating circumstances.
think before you write, it'll save me moderator points.
I think it's actually "I may not agree with what you're saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to be tasered for saying it". Some guy name Voltaire said it, appropriately enough.
Modern copyright is theft of culture from everyone and it retards the progress of the useful arts and sciences.
Having been arrested for "resisting arrest", I can assure you that they don't drop charges. I'm 6'5" and was in excellent shape at the time, and there is no way that two short skinny cops could have arrested me if I was "resisting". It would have taken at least twice that amount. But that didn't stop them from putting the cuffs on me, and dragging me off to jail. It also didn't stop them from lying in court until their own stories didn't line up. luckily for me, the jury took more time to elect a foreman than it took to come back with a verdict of not guilty.
.... Publicity hound seeking camera time. Welcome to your 15 minutes of fame, now go away.
In the case of the article above, I was half expecting the person to be a right wing wacko that Kerry was trying to dodge, but it turns out the guy was a left wing wacko on Kerry's side. The story makes even less sense now. I think one of the other posters got it right
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
People are focusing and commenting on the wrong thing both here and in other forums discussing the topic.
The question is not weather or not it is justified to taser someone who is resisting arrest. It is not even is it justified to taser this guy who was obviously already subdued.
The question is **why the hell is this guy being considered resisting arrest inthe first place**. What justification was the original arrest under? The police are not supposed to be able to arrest you for speaking out of place in a public forum!
I don't care how annoying the guy was being, or what he was doing that was out of line (storming the mic, etc). Campus security could get involved and escort the guy off the premises, but he shouldn't be arrested for speaking his mind! The police who were there (likely for Kerry security) should not have even been involved in the entire incident.
Even if that's the case, there are far better ways to handle a questioner who hogs the stage. Whoever was in charge of that event should have politely interrupted, loudly say "Sorry, we have no time for further questions," and cut the mic off. This was totally uncalled for. The University, a state institution, should get their asses sued off.
I just had the perfect idea for future debates. Ask a question within 30 seconds. If it isn't a valid question, you get shot with a taser. If the person debating evades the question or doesn't actually answer the question, that person gets hit. It would bring life and ratings back to US political debates.
"but the point is he did have the right to ask his questions along with anyone and everyone else attending the meeting."
And so did everyone else. At what point does someone have to intervene to make sure those rights are observed equally?
See, that's the part you're leaving out in your fairy tale recounting of this incident. He certainly has the right to be heard, for his allotted time, with repercussions being that he'll be cut off if he goes over. But then what happens to all those patient, well behaved people who would like to respect the rules but are not allowed their rightfully granted access? Oh right you don't give two fucks about them, they're not throwing a tantrum.
You keep talking about what could have happened, or what he might have done, but that's bullshit. What he did do was monopolize the mic, and resist those trying to enforce fair access.
So pretending he might have gone quietly when he was given the opportunity to do so and refused is bullshit too.
He didn't get tasered because he was exercising free speech, he got tasered because he actively resisted arrest. Stop trying to turn this into something it's not.
A society of cowards and a leadership that promulgates fear to stay in power. That's it in a nutshell.
No matter how many speakers you taze, no matter how many KB&R detention facilities you build, no matter how many radio trackers and bugs you put on your kids and employees, no matter how many strip searches and drug tests you all inflict on each other, the basic problem, the one creating these new police states, is that you are all conditioning yourselves to be cowards, and cowards are never safe enough. The level of security you are demanding not only for your persons, but to keep your tender ears from hearing things be said you do not wish to hear, is infinite. The number of people you need to kill overseas to feel safe is impossible to limit. And the more you squeeze those you fear, the more they will hate you and rise up against you, thus making you more afraid and more demanding of more police and more locks and more cameras. I understand Miami cops are now carrying military weaponry. Yet no one feels any safer.
Cowards die a thousand deaths. True cowards kill a thousand people to not die those thousand deaths, and yet still die those thousand times. Stupid people are always afraid, and you can't cure stupid.
> You greatly oversimplify the situation by saying, "he was resisting arrest."
And you miss point 5. :
5. Being pinned to the ground by at least 3 officers he kept on yelling, so they threatend to taze him and finally did so.
You're right, the first 4 Steps he was escalating the situation and the police acted appropriately. If the reaction to 5. had been carry the guy out of the room, it would have never made it to slashdot.
But that's not what happend. They decided to inflict great pain to a person which was in their custody. That's the scandal!
If you RTFA, you'll see that Kerry was actually asking the cops to leave the kid alone.
What the kid was asking about was why Kerry caved on the election. He was citing evidence uncovered by Greg Palast that Florida was stolen in 2004: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Palast. That was the book he was waving. People in Ohio have been convicted for election fraud: http://freepress.org/departments/display/19/2007/2379. Asking Kerry why he caved might be awkward for Kerry but it is an important question.
From what I'm reading elsewhere, the student had already raised a fuss and got Kerry to say he'd answer his questions when they said that they weren't taking any more questions due to time restraints, and then proceeded to ask two questions (which were answered) instead of just the one (like everybody else did), and was about one minute into a rant regarding freemasonry or some other crackpot conspiracy theory before security came in to get him off the microphone and let the proceeding continue. Oh, and yeah, he barged in without having (and paying for) a ticket in the first place, which was why security was there around him anyway.
This guy was creating a public disturbance. He deserved what he got, IMO. He'll also be charged and probably fined for it.
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
That's not the way I see this at all. At every step, he made choices that escalated the encounter.
1. He wasn't asking questions. He was making rhetorical statements. He was preaching. He was robbing other people of the chance to actually ask Kerry questions. What is the punishment for that? Simple, they take the mic away from you and give it to someone with something constructive to say. "He apparently asked several questions he went on for quite awhile then he was asked to stop," university spokesman Steve Orlando said. "He had used his allotted time. His microphone was cut off, then he became upset."
As two officers take Meyer by the arms, Kerry, D-Mass., can be heard saying, "That's alright, let me answer his question." Audience members applaud, and Meyer struggles for several seconds as up to four officers try to remove him from the room.
So when you ask a question, and the person to whom you asked the question wants to answer, you should submit to the uniformed thugs who have decided that they didn't like your question and they want you out of the public forum?
In Soviet Russia, or 21st century USA?
You can't take the sky from me...
Mods, that's not flamebait... In fact, I can see nothing wrong with the comment or reasoning - it's dead on.
This student's behavior / attitude is what got him into trouble. It wasn't just making a comment and asking a question, it was HOW he did so, asking questions in a loud fast-paced run-on without giving Kerry a chance to respond, cutting him off when Kerry tried. It was the tone of the voice, manor of speech, body language, etc. Disruptive style behavior indicative of mental instability / hostility.
That said, it was handled POORLY. At most, he should have been simply ejected, not arrested. He got tasered for resisting arrest, which was understandable given the behavior I saw on the video.
In a very timely parallel, I went to my local city council meeting last night. During "Open Forum," we had someone who behaved EXACTLY the same. Same body language, same speech patterns, etc. He was obviously mentally disturbed by the content of his comments. How did the city council handle it? Perfectly. They listened to him with respect, let him finish his 5 minute long rant (including references to Timothy McViegh,) thanked him, and the guy left.
I keep seeing comments that he deserved what he got, and I find that frightening.
I must've watched a different video, because the video I watched had this chain of events:
1. He's standing at the microphone waiting patiently for Kerry to finish his speech.
2. Kerry finishes and calls on him to speak. The guy thanks him for his time in addressing the students.
3. He holds up a book and recommends Kerry read it, because it states that he actually won the 2004 election.
(Kerry states he 'has' read the book)
3. Question #1: (after a statement leading into the question... he's a journalism student after all) How could you concede the election with so many unknowns in relation to disenfranchisement of voters and improper vote counts?
4. He gets a bit upset at a security officer trying to cut him off before he even gets to the question stated in point 3.
5. Question #2: Why not impeach Bush before he invades Iran, since Bill Clinton was impeached over a blowjob?
6. Question #3: Is Kerry a member of the Skull and Bones society, along with Bush?
7. The officer then shuts the microphone off halfway through his last question/statement. (by this time it's been 1 minute and 30 seconds of him at the mic).
8. Then he gets upset that they shut off the mic before he was completely finished, but not combative at all, then they grab him and attempt to eject him from the proceeding.
9. He pulls himself away from the guards once Kerry states that everything's OK and that he'll answer the question(s), but he still shows no signs of combativeness.
10. It pretty much devolves into a melee from here.
I really see nothing here that warrants his treatment, nor justification for the tazering. The fact that some people feel it was justified makes me glad that they're not police officers. Even the cops replying to this thread are saying that the guards were out of line... that should say something.
For those who think it's easy to control a ranting idiot:
Get 5 of your friends, choose a reasonably healthy male of about the
same size as the guy in the video and try to politely put cuffs on him
with him resisting:
The rules,
you cannot bruise him or hurt him in any way.
and he can do whatever he wants short of throwing a punch.
I think if you do this you'll find a new found respect for the
police officers.
From Kerry's Blog: http://www.johnkerry.com/blog
JK: "A good healthy discussion was interrupted"
by Rick Albertson on September 18th, 2007
Senator Kerry made the following statement in response to the arrest of a student at the University of Florida:
In 37 years of public appearances, through wars, protests and highly emotional events, I have never had a dialogue end this way.
I believe I could have handled the situation without interruption, but again I do not know what warnings or other exchanges transpired between the young man and the police prior to his barging to the front of the line and their intervention.
I asked the police to allow me to answer the question and was in the process of answering him when he was taken into custody.
I was not aware that a taser was used until after I left the building. I hope that neither the student nor any of the police were injured.
I regret enormously that a good healthy discussion was interrupted.
I'm sure the court can strike that down, but they can certainly arrest the guy for whatever they want. IMO the police went way over the line arresting the guy for taking too long, but it's true that he was acting pretty crazy and violent once they started to take him away and at that point it was certainly causing a disturbance.. it seemed like he was just waiting for the police to do something to totally flip out and overreact. It's a QA session, you can't just keep talking, he must have expected the police to do something and then act like it's police brutality.
It's horrifying though to see everyone sit there cooly watching the guy get tasered over and over. If they had all rushed the police the crowd could have helped him.. regardless of whether the police were doing the right thing, the crowd should have tried to save the guy.. this is frighteningly close to people being too afraid to do anything when their neighbors are dragged away by the gestapo, and the threat is clear in the video "stay in your seats or you'll be tasered and arrested too."
He was acting like a raving lunatic.
People stayed in their seats because the police were trying to remove a raving lunatic.
They were told to stay in their seats to maintain order. They weren't threatened. If they started to rush the police, it would have seemed like he not only was a loon, but had conspirators.
The crowd had no real incentive to help the guy. He came in with the intent to cause a disturbance. He proceeded to cause a disturbance by breaking the rules of the forum, so no one questioed him being escorterd out. Once he started causing a significant disturbance to the police and people around him, they had no reason to intervene, because he was acting like a criminal.
The people did what they should have. The police did what they should have.
This is nothing like the Gestapo pulling people out of their homes at night because of who their mother was. This is nothing like someone being arrested in the middle of the night from publishing a disenting opinion in a paper the day before.
You are terribly incorrect to have even likened it to real suppresion. It gives people that actually worry about such suppresion less credibility. You having said that, and it getting modded up will give credence to people that allow said travesties to happen, saying easily "Must have been another loon..."
They cut off his mic and he didn't take the cue so the campus police asked him to leave. It's apparent when the guards approached him. When he resisted, he became a trespasser, which is a crime in USA. Police can taser you if you're trespassing and resisting their effort to remove you from private property. His resistance escalated the police response to tasering; it was his fault.
The audience did not rush to his aid because it's apparent many were applauding the police, which implied they perceived the student to be a disruption. They were right not to rush to his aid because doing so would have disrupted a legal arrest, which is also a crime. He was charged with disrupting a public event, which appears to be the case if you watch the video.
Had it been on a public sidewalk, I think the guy would have a civil right's case, but since it was on campus, the campus police acted within their rights. Acting like an idiot and not liking the response is not a civil right's violation.
You are right about the public's fear of gestapo-like police, but I didn't see it in the video. It's really too late to be concerned about that though. Police have the power, you don't. We as a nation gave it to them a long time ago. We all just have to live with it... or work toward changing it.
Camping on quad since 1996.
IS TO REMAIN PASSIVE! This dip-shit's thrashing around could have injured a cop or an innocent bystander. He was putting people in danger by struggling and at that point subduing him was the right thing to do. Was it right to stun-gun him? Maybe not, but the alternative was to hit him with baton or fist until he stopped trashing about. I've been hit by lightning, and I'd take a beating over that. I'm not sure a I'd take a beating over a taser, which I've heard is more like a cattle prod (which I've also experienced)
I watched the videos and heard this dude screaming like a kid having a tantrum. I HIGHLY doubt the cops were completely mute. Even people close to the camera got drowned out at times. It's highly probable that the cops were speaking in less hysterical voices and it just wasn't picked up by the camera.
As for the rest of it, I saw him clearly resist the officers attempts to remove him. He was kicking and screaming and thrashing about. That is undeniably resisting arrest, which is illegal even if you are being arrested for a crime you didn't commit. The place to fight it is in the courts, and if it is truly unjust the ACLU will probably jump up to defend you.
Nonetheless, if a cop puts his hand on you and you start trashing about like a spaz, they are going to take you down. If you continue to struggle once they have you subdued, they can't just let go of you until you are "cooperative".
This dick was trying to cause a violent confrontation. Gandhi would be ashamed of this tool.
"Cheeze it!" - Bender
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaiWCS10C5s
Kerry finishes a question, points to him, and says "Sir?".
During his question, the guy is interrupted, and at the end of his question, his mic is cut, and police immediately grab him and proceed to forcibly remove him from the premises. At that time, Kerry is asking the police to let the guy be while he answers his question. The police PREVENT KERRY FROM ANSWERING with their actions, and when the kid starts to fight them off THEN the crowd applauds him.
The Kid waited his turn, politely asked a question when he was invited to do so by Kerry, his question was interrupted as soon as he said something controversial, his microphone is then cut and he's immediately removed from the microphone area, and Kerry cannot answer the question because the officer's action are causing a disturbance in the proceeding.
THAT is what the videos show. That is what Kerry's official statement says happened.
You can't take the sky from me...
torture
I didn't see any torture. I saw someone who KNEW what he was doing going to great lengths to make sure he screamed like a school girl at exactly the moment needed to maximize the theatrics. A hit with a taser isn't torture.
stab gear is light weight and worn under the shirt so you can not see it
Which does nothing for your arms, groin, face, or legs. As you obviously know.
sadism
You're confusing this kid's deliberately putting himself into that scenario and launching the physical part of the conflict with someone ELSE looking for some chance to inflict pain. Sadism: BS, and you know it. Not wanting to have to deal with someone acting increasingly loopy, is more like it. And, you're still talking like they just walked up and tasered him, which you know is BS. They TOLD him they were going to, half a dozen times. All he had to do was quit being physical, problem solved.
I would have put one of the kids arms behind his back grabbed a handful of hair with the other
Just what a guy like this would be hoping for, if he could talk you into tasering him. An officer dragging a political protester by the hair is a nice second place - he'd LOVE you for that. It would also go right up on his home page.
Hell bouncers in most bars would have done a better job then those clowns did.
I've bounced, subdued, and disarmed plenty of large, drunk people. I'm not a cop, so of course no arrests personally. But I've dealt with people three times that kid's size that turned out to be big pushovers, and some very small, very scrappy people that I've watched dislocate an officer's arm, break a jaw, and nearly blind someone else while resisting being tossed out of a venue. And I HAVE watched someone get a bad guy's dislodged, hidden belt knife rammed right into their thigh, followed by some life-threatening bleeding in the middle of the fight. His vest likely would have stopped it, but... he wasn't wearing his vest on his damn leg, as you ALSO know.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.