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TransUnion to Offer Credit Freezes Nationwide

An anonymous reader writes "In a little-noticed press release issued Tuesday, credit reporting bureau TransUnion said it would begin offering credit freezes to all Americans, a change the belies the credit industry's oft-uttered claim that doing so would be too expensive and burdensome. The program takes effect Oct. 15, 2007, will cost $10 each to place and to remove, and request and must be filed by certified mail. As The Washington Post reports, the move comes as some 39 states and the District of Columbia have passed laws entitling their residents to credit freeze rights. The new right may have little benefit unless the other two major credit reporting bureaus follow suit, and both companies are staying mum about any plans to do so. In May, Slashdot examined a related story on the credit bureaus' traditional resistance to freeze laws."

150 of 174 comments (clear)

  1. Confused... by Jennifer+York · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I must have missed something... but how does freezing your credit history help with identity theft? And doesn't that defeat the purpose of having a credit history? I mean a history is used to determine if I pose a credit risk to the lender...

    1) I ask to freeze my credit history
    2) My history is frozen
    3) ???
    4) profit

    Anybody able to distill this into simple terms for us?

    1. Re:Confused... by stoolpigeon · · Score: 3, Informative

      it helps when it keeps the people who stole your identity from opening more accounts

      --
      It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
    2. Re:Confused... by glwtta · · Score: 1

      I'm assuming it's a temporary thing designed to limit the damage done to your history as a result of identity theft. I would assume that it would have to be in the unfrozen state for you to accomplish something that requires a credit check (eg apply for a mortgage).

      --
      sic transit gloria mundi
    3. Re:Confused... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      1) I ask to freeze my credit history
      2) My history is frozen
      3) ???
      4) profit


      3a) identity thief attempts to open an account in my name
      3b) identity thief fails to guess the secret password needed to mail in and unlock my account
      3c) identity thief's credit line is denied.
      3d) my credit record is safe, allowing me to unlock the credit when I actually do need it and...

      In simple terms, it makes sure nobody else can attach lines of credit to you. The credit bureaus hate this because every time someone verifies your credit, they make $50 or so, which means that they have a financial interest in making sure as many people as possible can access your credit as often as possible. If they only made money when people were legitimately applying for a credit card or a mortgage, they'd never be able to pay their CEO the millions of dollars he deserves.

    4. Re:Confused... by lena_10326 · · Score: 2, Informative

      stoolpigeon is right, but also it could be used as a preventive measure. Let's say you buy your house and you won't need to open any accounts for several years. You freeze your account so no one can open an account under your name and SSN. The thieves could have all your info but it wouldn't do any good, unless they find a way to unfreeze your account, but they wouldn't know your account was frozen. They'd only know you were denied credit (if it's implemented right). Also, it would be an undesirable expense to pay the $10 for every stolen name, and even that could leave a paper trail.

      --
      Camping on quad since 1996.
    5. Re:Confused... by stoolpigeon · · Score: 1

      right. i'm sure that's part of why they resist. among other reasons stated here. basically, if switching back and forth isn't too onerous, i'd lock mine and leave it locked until i needed something. and then i'd find out which service will be used and just unlock the one(s) i need. then maybe they'd quit bugging me at target about being approved for a credit card. and maybe i'd quit getting all that mail from american express and the others. (though i don't know if they mail those out prior to doing an actual check or not.)

      --
      It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
    6. Re:Confused... by karmatic · · Score: 3, Informative

      If you want to stop all the pre-screen credit card offers, opt out.

    7. Re:Confused... by UbuntuDupe · · Score: 1

      Ah, dammit, so *that's* what comes before "Profit!" THANK YOU! It finally makes sense now!

    8. Re:Confused... by sowth · · Score: 3, Insightful

      How can this be? You need a registered letter to freeze the account, yet a telephone call from your identity thief will "thaw" your account within 15 minutes and allow him/her to run wild with your credit again...

      I don't see how this will do anything to slow or stop this kind of fraud.

    9. Re:Confused... by talledega500 · · Score: 1

      And another thing,

      Even after "unlocking" your credit do you think a creditor is going to ignore that
      your credit has been locked and look favorably on you?

      NO WAY. You will be dinged. How do they know its you and not the bad guy NOW?
        And you will never know since you dont know whats in the FICO scoring engine. But having been divorced is in there,
      So you can probably guess having your credit locked is going to be in there.
      So say hello to shitty credit either way.

      Stop dreaming about this having anything to do with helping people. Its about credit bureau liability

    10. Re:Confused... by sodul · · Score: 1

      I did the paper version a few years ago and never ever received a credit card offer in the mail after that. Best 29 cents I ever spent (or whatever the stamp price was at the time).

      Also when I open a bank account I always make sure to tell that I don't want them to share my information with 'anyone'. Be proactive about it so you're sure you are not missing the fine prints about it. An ex Wells Fargo employee once told me that selling/auctioning customer information was their biggest income. She was so discussed about it that she had to quit.

      Now my wife keep receiving pre-approved offers while she can't get a credit card on her name because has no SSN (legal alien).
      When she applied (out of curiosity) she was deniedfor lack of SSN ... go figure.

    11. Re:Confused... by Alpha830RulZ · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I don't think this is accurate. This should increase the value of a credit score for the purchasers of credit scores, which are companies that lend money. This is a clear marker for a fraudulent loan application, which is one of the two precise things that lenders want to discover as they are processing a loan application (the other being a customer who is real, but nonetheless defaults on the loan). Credit Bureaus get money for returning a score for an account, generally about 10 cents a score. It doesn't cost them more, or reduce their demand to have a segment of customers marking their score as a do not lend value. From the credit grantor's standpoint, this is good info, and prevents them from getting scammed. Since the grantor's goal is to not loan money to people who don't intend to pay, they should want this information. The credit bureau still gets paid, and indeed should be able to charge more for a higher quality score. Everyone benefits.

      It's quite possible that I'm being naive. But I do work extensively with these scores and their customers in my job, predictive modeling for financial services companies. I'm the dark side. I make these scores. If I could add this feature to a score, I'd get a bonus.

      --
      I was taught to respect my elders. The trouble is, it's getting harder and harder to find some.
    12. Re:Confused... by karmatic · · Score: 1

      Did she try using an ITIN on the application?

    13. Re:Confused... by sodul · · Score: 1

      Yes it did not work.

      If we really wanted a credit card on her name we would go with American Express (they did issue cards on her name is the past but that's a different story). My wife will have a work permit in a few months and we'll go get her SSN as soon as we receive it.

    14. Re:Confused... by Zigg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm not terribly pleased with the inner workings of the credit-granting industry either, but it seems to me it'd make the most business sense to grant credit to people who care about protecting their own report. Therefore, someone who carefully freezes and thaws their own report would seem to me to be less of a credit risk.

    15. Re:Confused... by stoolpigeon · · Score: 1

      Thank you. Very helpful.

      --
      It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
    16. Re:Confused... by EllisDees · · Score: 2, Informative

      I had my identity stolen about three years ago and as a result, I put a 7 year freeze on my credit reports. What this means is that if I request any kind of credit, or if someone else does so in my name, the company offering the credit has to call me and verify that I am making the request before it can be opened. There is really no reason to "unfreeze" your credit under any circumstance, and IMHO this should be the default behavior for giving credit.

      --
      -- Give me ambiguity or give me something else!
    17. Re:Confused... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative
      With Experian, you are given a 10-digit PIN which you must provide in addition to the other identifying information (full name, SSN, DOB, confirmation # of a recently purchased report) in order to thaw your report.

      Basically, this service allows you to selectively decide whether you want somebody to pull your Experian report. Your report is typically pulled when applying for new credit, undergoing background checks, apply for insurance, marketers looking for candidates to send Balance-Transfer offers, etc.

      It does not affect existing creditors - they are allowed to keep pulling soft reports for account reviews, etc.

      One caveat to this is that a freeze does not prevent one (or a thief) from requesting a credit limit increase on a tradeline. Of course, if a thief is requesting the CLI, they then have to go further and avoid activity that is out-of-character for your account history and/or the credit grantor has determined to be a fraudalent pattern or activity.

      The other reason why freezes are used is when your Experian report is worse, has more hard inquiries, or has derogatory info (or more so) compared to the other 2 bureaus. Experian is quite tough about removing derogs, hard inquiries, or incorrect info, and many credit applicants find it more beneficial if a credit grantor pulls their TransUnion or Equifax reports. Oftentimes, a credit analyst will call and ask that you unfreeze your report. You can do so, or request that they pull your TransUnion or Equifax reports instead. Some will, some won't. The ones that won't will insist on pulling your Experian report, or deny your application if you refuse to thaw it.

      Besides, as a another poster has stated, depending on your state, you can thaw a report, let a credit grantor pull your report, and then refreeze it the same day.

      Like it or not, knowledge about credit is usually the one factor you can control that determines your success in your personal life and business. From what I've read on this thread, most slashdotters are pretty ignorant about credit and how it be useful for their goals.

      Everybody on this board should visit www.creditboards.com/forums and become more educated about the credit process rather than perpetuating false info and myths about credit.

    18. Re:Confused... by Nukenbar · · Score: 1

      Is this a test to see how may people will blindly fill out a form that requests a person's name, DOB, and SSN?

    19. Re:Confused... by ObjetDart · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I tried 2 different ways to stop the torrent of pre-approved credit card offers I was receiving in the mail:

      1. Called the companies up and, after wasting endless time in the phone system, finally found someone who claimed to be able to remove me from the mailing list. This had no noticeable effect.

      2. Started mailing back every single offer with "PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM YOUR LIST" scrawled across the acceptance form, in their own postage-paid reply envelopes. This was wildly successful. The mail stopped stopped almost immediately and hasn't resumed since, and that was a couple of years ago now.

      --
      I read Usenet for the articles.
    20. Re:Confused... by karmatic · · Score: 1

      No.

      TransUnion works with them, and since TransUnion is the one selling your info (which they get from credit apps), it's not like you're providing any information they couldn't already get.

  2. Re:Too lazy... by stoolpigeon · · Score: 5, Informative

    You can put a lock on your credit report so that new accounts cannot be opened.

    --
    It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
  3. So what they really mean by TubeSteak · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Is that it costs them less than $10 to freeze or unfreeze your credit.

    What I'm curious about is the certified mail
    It doesn't prove anything about the sender, merely that it got received.

    --
    [Fuck Beta]
    o0t!
    1. Re:So what they really mean by stoolpigeon · · Score: 1

      Maybe they are looking to avoid people sending it regular postage and then constantly calling to ask if it arrived, or going nutto when it never does arrive. This way, they force people to do what they ought to anyway, and keep the process cleaner for everyone involved. I'd also think that they want to do all they can to keep it from being trivial, yet without making it too difficult.

      --
      It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
    2. Re:So what they really mean by ucblockhead · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The amusing bit is that you need certified mail to place the freeze, but don't need certified mail to remove it. Interesting given that identity thieves would be interested in removing freezes, not adding them.

      --
      The cake is a pie
    3. Re:So what they really mean by lena_10326 · · Score: 1

      Is that it costs them less than $10 to freeze or unfreeze your credit.
      I think $10 is quite reasonable. It would prevent ridiculously frequent freeze on and freeze offs.... like every other day, and it makes guessing your secret pin by submitting an unfreeze request every time very costly.

      Compared to other services, such as ATM fees, cash withdrawal fees, transfer fees, application fees, discontinuation fees, etc, it's affordable IMO.
      --
      Camping on quad since 1996.
    4. Re:So what they really mean by Copid · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What I'm curious about is the certified mail
      It doesn't prove anything about the sender, merely that it got received.
      One possible reason is to prevent people from claiming that they froze their records after something goes wrong and then trying to blame TransUnion. TransUnion can simply say, "If you sent it, you must have done it via certified mail, so you have the records to prove that it was our mistake, right? No? Then go away." Of course, one would think that a canceled check or record of a credit card payment would be enough to prove that the transaction took place.
      --
      An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
    5. Re:So what they really mean by llamalad · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think that $10 is entirely unacceptable.

      They've been making money by keeping information about me, and now they want ME to pay them to STOP?

      Ridiculous.

    6. Re:So what they really mean by lena_10326 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, I look at it this way. Credit bureaus do provide a desired service for lenders and borrowers. Without a credit history, you would get the same ho-hum homogenized rate everyone else gets. When you have good credit, the credit bureaus are a service to you so they deserve to be paid that. When you open an account, you're initiating that service via the lender.

      But, I completely agree with you with the passive credit pulls. We don't request those, but we do have regulation to block those with the 1-888-5-OPT-OUT service.

      The problem is credit bureaus don't have enough regulation for requests we don't invoke. They only care about the lenders, not us, so that causes them to be extremely sloppy with handling our data, keeping error rates low, and providing us better service when fixing errors and controlling who accesses our history. The sloppiness of credit bureaus is the #1 cause of identify theft, so they are truly to blame. Federal regulation and punitive fines could put an end to it, but that's due to politicians simply ignoring our demands in preference for the lobbyists (and free gifts).

      I simply don't have issues with credit files in of themselves. Just the management of them.

      --
      Camping on quad since 1996.
    7. Re:So what they really mean by richardellisjr · · Score: 1

      It's easy to get them to stop, don't use any credit. However credit is a necessity for most, and someone loaning you the 200k for your new house wants to be sure you'll pay your bills. Don't like it, save up and pay for everything in cash, including that 200k house. Otherwise your playing their game, and have to play by their rules.

    8. Re:So what they really mean by Antony.Muss · · Score: 2, Funny

      You could steal your own identity and save the $10.

    9. Re:So what they really mean by SuperMog2002 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      These guys offer a service known as manual underwriting. Instead of using your credit score, they actually look at your income, assets, and expenses to determine your ability to repay. If you make decent money yet have a low credit score simply by not having any debt, they'll still offer you a loan.

      --
      Sunwalker Dezco for Warchief in 2016
    10. Re:So what they really mean by FLEB · · Score: 1

      If you were to take this tactic, though, you'd still want to freeze your credit-- your not having existing accounts doesn't mean someone else can't apply under your name.

      --
      Information wants to be free.
      Entertainment wants to be paid.
      You just want to be cheap.
    11. Re:So what they really mean by UbuntuDupe · · Score: 1

      It gets better. Credit reporting agencies have been exempted from the laws against defamation.

      If I say, "You're going to lend money to llamalad? Hm, he's not a good risk. He's behind on his payments to a grass-laying company" and that's not true, you can sue me and collect damages.

      If Experian does that through a credit report, you can maybe get it corrected ... eventually ... but never hope to collect damages.

    12. Re:So what they really mean by drawfour · · Score: 1

      Oh no, you're not paying them to stop collecting data on you. You are paying them to prevent allowing a new credit line to be opened. Any current lenders you have will still be able to report on how you pay your loans to them. If you get assigned to a collection agency, that will still be reported.

      It's just to prevent identify thiefs from opening a new account in your name.

      I agree that a fee for this is absurd, but they will still collect all information on you that they are currently collecting.

    13. Re:So what they really mean by prakslash · · Score: 1

      Meh. Have you actually ever taken a big loan like a house mortgage? Most loan companies go through an underwriting process where they look at your income/debt ratios, assets etc. Credit score is just one part of the equation and most companies treat it as such. Heck, the whole sub-prime loan business is for people with no credit/bad-credit and is all done through manual underwriting. I bet even these guys you talk about pull credit history and scores to start the process. Now, if they say they won't ever pull credit history, then you can talk about them. I don't think that is the case.

    14. Re:So what they really mean by nosfucious · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't an incorrect, bad credit report constitute libel? If it reduces your standing in the community and the information is not true, would one then have an opportunity to sue the credit reporting agency.

      In the event that they claim bad information, then you should be able to sue the party providing the bad information?

      Any lawyers, or lawyer-alikes care to comment?

      --
      Q:I was listening to a CD in Grip and it sounded horrible! What's up? A:Perhaps you are listening to country music
    15. Re:So what they really mean by Sancho · · Score: 1

      Freezing someone else's credit as a prank or as harassment would definitely be something to try to prevent. But really, certified mail isn't that authoritative, anyway.

    16. Re:So what they really mean by ucblockhead · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Very true. But I'd rather have my credit frozen as a prank than have someone get a credit card in my name after unfreezing my account.

      --
      The cake is a pie
    17. Re:So what they really mean by epine · · Score: 1
      Identity theft is a very small problem. Credential bungling is a huge problem, and it is caused by the institutional structure that this defamation-exemption created. How did that get passed into law?

      It strikes me as non-constitutional. How is anyone to succeed in the pursuit of happiness when major credit agencies are divulging damaging falsehoods about you in your significant financial relationships? Truly, in American society the pursuit of happiness must translate to litigating these credential-bungling credit rating agencies all to hell.

      I also think the law should support a class action law suit over the design of the credit card security mechanism which created this problem in the first place, towards appealing the common notion that their credential bungling is our identity theft.

      One post suggested that by enabled me to obtain better interest rates, I benefit from having my (good) credit history collected and reported.

      If that is the case, a capitalist society would enable me to hire third parties to gather and report this information. If I wish this service because it enables me to obtain favourable terms, then I seek it out and I pay for it myself.

      I have still have that Nixon tape running through my head after viewing Sicko the other night. Note to the Moore haters: let's ignore the messenger, and let Nixon speak for himself, in his own words, brought to use by the magic of magnetic tape:

      From http://whatisthemessage.blogspot.com/2007/06/michael-moores-sicko.html

      For private enterprise, it has worked remarkably well. As Nixon counsel, John Erlichman explains to the then-President,

      Edgar Kaiser is running this Permanente deal for profit. And the reason he can do it ... is all the incentives are toward less medical care, because the less care they give 'em, the more money they make. ... The incentives run the right way.

      Nixon: Not bad. The next day, Nixon announces the establishment of HMOs, saying, "I want America to have the finest health care in the world. And I want every American to have that care when he needs it."

      The credit rating agencies enjoy the same favorable legislative tilt, with the same detrimental consequences to the typical American: instead of litigating against credential bungling at the hands of the Enrons of personal record handling, we cower in fear over this ficticious concept of "identity theft" which merely a synonym for the non-constitutional legislative contrivance that "if corporations lie about you, you have no power to stop it".
    18. Re:So what they really mean by Nuitana · · Score: 1

      Certified mail is a formality best used when the recipient doesn't want to receive the mail, so the sender can have proof that the mail was sent. USPS gives excellent service, and it is a rare thing for first class mail not to be received. Personally, I do not accept certified mail and would not use it outside of extraordinary situations. Certified mail can be refused just like a package, and when it is, it is returned to the sender. The sender, at that point, has no proof of anything and has paid a fee for nothing.

    19. Re:So what they really mean by lena_10326 · · Score: 1

      I "think" you can only sue the lender who placed the invalid information on your report. I know if you alert the lender and make them aware it's an error (and it really is) and then they refuse to do anything about it, you can apply for credit, get denied to show damage, and then sue the hell out of the lender.

      --
      Camping on quad since 1996.
  4. Re:The Problem with credit freezes by stoolpigeon · · Score: 1

    Well, just keep checking for a credit report. And the minute one popped up prior to you wanting one to exist, then freezing it would be a great start. If all the big reporting companies get on board, it would probably be worth your time to do something to get a report with each and then freeze it immediately. You'd be completely safe.
     
    If it gets that way - and it isn't too hard to switch back and forth - I may freeze mine, as I don't need any new credit now, and just unlock it when I need to.

    --
    It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
  5. Pulling Credit Reports by JRHelgeson · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In the past, prior to applying for a home loan, I had subscribed to credit reporting services at each of the 3 credit reporting agencies. I have had my user accounts set up for over 5 years with each of them. I quit paying for the services once the free AnnualCreditReport.com went up. Now I have been checking my credit annually. Apparently I wasn't the only one who quit paying for services they should be getting for free because they started scamming the consumers.

    This year, I went to go pull my report from all 3 bureaus and none of them will let me see it - apparently because they "cannot adequately verify my identity", even though I've logged in with my same account information I've had with them for years. I enter my info; they'll ask me 3 questions about my credit past, which I correctly answer... then tell me I need to send my request via snail-mail.

    HOWEVER

    If I login and agree to pay $10, then they'll grant me access to the information, no questions asked.

    This is a scam!

    --
    Good security is based upon reality and common sense. Common sense is a function of having common knowledge.
    1. Re:Pulling Credit Reports by lena_10326 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If I login and agree to pay $10, then they'll grant me access to the information, no questions asked.
      I have to presume they would check the name and account number on your credit card and see if it matches any accounts in your report, which would offer 1 more hurdle of security by requiring you to have physical possession of the card (they always ask for CVV2 code).

      --
      Camping on quad since 1996.
    2. Re:Pulling Credit Reports by Lord_Breetai · · Score: 1

      I have to presume they would check the name and account number on your credit card and see if it matches any accounts in your report, which would offer 1 more hurdle of security by requiring you to have physical possession of the card (they always ask for CVV2 code). While this makes sense, can't they go through all the motions of a credit card transaction without actually charging any money. It would have the same result and it wouldn't have to cost $10.
      --
      "You are only young once, but you can be immature forever." -www.animemusicvideos.org
    3. Re:Pulling Credit Reports by JRHelgeson · · Score: 1

      They already have my CC information on file... I just click SUBMIT and it charges the card.
      They can SEE the money they're turning away, and they block the transaction.

      --
      Good security is based upon reality and common sense. Common sense is a function of having common knowledge.
    4. Re:Pulling Credit Reports by lena_10326 · · Score: 1

      They have it on file, but they don't know that you have the physical card in your hand. Did they ask for a CVV code? If not, then you're right. It was pointless. If yes, then it's 1 extra level of security.

      --
      Camping on quad since 1996.
    5. Re:Pulling Credit Reports by langelgjm · · Score: 1

      There's no reason they couldn't do that for free. Plenty of places will run temp authorization of about $1 on your card, just to make sure that it's valid.

      --
      "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
    6. Re:Pulling Credit Reports by sconeu · · Score: 1

      Same thing happened to me (with Experian only -- the others worked) -- and this was when I was getting my free one for a case of identity theft!!!!

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    7. Re:Pulling Credit Reports by JRHelgeson · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Okay, I just spent $10 to answer this question, so this post had better get modded UP! :)

      I went to TransUnion, logged in, provided my buddy's credit card number (with his consent, I gave him $10 cash) and bought my credit report that they previously would not give me for free!

      Any questions?

      --
      Good security is based upon reality and common sense. Common sense is a function of having common knowledge.
    8. Re:Pulling Credit Reports by zarqman · · Score: 1

      wow. thanks for trying that. it's amazing how screwed up the credit outfits are.

      if i had mod points, i would have modded you up. unfortunately i don't. hopefully others will.

      --
      geek friendly VPS's and free API enabled DNS : zerigo.com
    9. Re:Pulling Credit Reports by lena_10326 · · Score: 1

      I went to TransUnion, logged in, provided my buddy's credit card number (with his consent, I gave him $10 cash) and bought my credit report that they previously would not give me for free!
      Heh. Heh. Heh. Funny. I spose you were right all along. Heh. That's effed up.

      --
      Camping on quad since 1996.
  6. Re:Too lazy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It means that someone, who has an infinitely larger amount of knowledge about that industry than any Slashdotter, has figured out that they can make the same amount of profit off of the same amount of data while still allowing a percentage of their data generating population to entertain a false sense of fairness/security in the system by saying,"Oh, good, I can freeze my credit report with agency XYZ. That solves _EVERYTHING_!"

    It's a PR move made by extraordinarily wealthy people trying to shore up their public image.

    Simply put all of the conventional wisdom about freezing credit reports, and all of the hyporthetical armchair conjecture about identity thieves, and all of the poster children who pop up in news articles and brochures saying,"I froze my credit and, not only did it save my life, but it walked my dog, buttered my toast, and installed Gentoo for me!" are a decoy. Nobody knows the inner business workings or dealings of the major credit bureaus at the executive level and the credit bureaus, along with the executive level members of the banking institutions which they work with, like it that way. They'll keep offering you bread and circuses ("You can now freeze your credit report" "OMG! That's going to totally revolutionize the economic system and make all of the executive level fraud, insider trading and political graft suddenly disappear!") as long as the American public continues to generate profit and support their multibillion dollar facade.

    Truth hurts. Cue the whimpering cries from trolls screaming "where's the evidence!" in agony. :)

  7. Re:The Problem with credit freezes by SScorpio · · Score: 1

    This is a terrible idea unless you are going to purchase your house in full. It is extremely hard to obtain a mortgage with a good rate when you don't have credit. One of my co-workers had this happen to him about a year and a half ago. He needed to use his WOW account as a way to show a consistent monthly payment along with his cell phone bill and some past history with apartments.

    It's easy to build good credit if you start early. Just get a credit card with a low limit of say $500. Use it once in a while and pay it off in full every month. You'll have to call your credit card company every so often and fight a little to keep your limit low. But having a good credit score will pay off in the long run.

  8. Already available for free? by DaveAtFraud · · Score: 1

    All three credit agencies allow consumers to request that no new credit be granted. This includes both "instant credit" and new credit card offers. It's a really good idea unless you enjoy kiting your debt between different credit cards.

    If you want to change banks, you can always shop for a better rate on-line and then request an account application from the bank you decide best fits your needs. This will probably be a better rate than the unsolicted card offers you get in the mail.

    Cheers,
    Dave

    --
    They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty.
    Ben
    1. Re:Already available for free? by Geste · · Score: 1
      "If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's free." -- P.J. O'Rourke

      You should ask P.J.O'Rourke about infant mortality and longevity stats in places like Sweden and France and what percent of their GDP is expended on health care.

    2. Re:Already available for free? by DaveAtFraud · · Score: 1, Interesting
      I'm quite happy with what P.J. O'Rourke has to say. Different peoples have differing expectations as to what the government should and should not do. The French, Sweeds, etc. have an expectation of the government taking care of them (see also socialism). A goodly number of people in the U.S. see such cradle to grave care by the government as a tax on those willing to take risks and/or take care of themselves. Neither is right or wrong; just different approaches to the problem that suits the temperament of different people. You should also note that the new French president is attempting to dismantle some of the social support structure since they don't seem to be able to afford it.

      You might also look a little more closely at countries with socialized medecine like Canada and the U.K. Those with money leave to get the care they need in a timely manner. Those who can't afford to leave sometimes die waiting for facilities and tests that are considered routine in this country. Yeah, they may have a lower infant mortality rate but don't get sick with something that requires specialized treatment (unless you can afford to pick up the tab yourself possibly after some travel).

      Cheers,
      Dave

      --
      They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty.
      Ben
    3. Re:Already available for free? by rikkards · · Score: 1

      Yeah, they may have a lower infant mortality rate but don't get sick with something that requires specialized treatment (unless you can afford to pick up the tab yourself possibly after some travel


      Which would be like the US correct? I do live in Canada and granted the Healthcare does have issues (mostly silly things like people who are just sick clogging the hospital when they should stay home or go to a clinic instead), but when my wife required an MRI it was less than a month. It wasn't critical just used for investigation purposes and if we wanted one the next day we could have paid $700 over in Hull across the bridge in Quebec. If it had been a critical issue she would have been bumped to the top. For an MRI, CAT scan, hospital visit, blood flow analysis using a sonogram, and ambulance ride, the total bill was $35. Guess which we paid for?

      The one stupid thing I have noticed is that provinces would rather send people south to the states than send them to another province if there is a specialist available in the other province.
  9. Fast thaw by Joaz+Banbeck · · Score: 1

    Some states have a law requiring that the credit reporting companies 'thaw' your credit within 15 minutes of you requesting it. For a few bucks, you can thaw, be checked, and refreeze in one day.

    1. Re:Fast thaw by hedwards · · Score: 1

      Depending upon ones jurisdiction, it could be free or it could cost money.

      My guess is that by providing the service in states that don't have credit freeze laws that they are hoping to get a few to freeze the accounts, then a fee each time they thaw it out for a credit provider.

  10. Re:The Problem with credit freezes by westlake · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I don't plan on getting credit until I purchase a house.

    Why should a lender trust you to repay the $60K loan - the $100K loan - when you have no history of managing debt on a much smaller scale?

    The mortgage market is getting very tight for borrowers who can't demonstrate that they have both the experience and the resources to meet their commitments.

  11. Experian won't answer its phone. by arbitraryaardvark · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In theory you can get a free credit report from AnnualCreditReport.com, as required by federal law. Not to be confused with freecreditreport.com, which is free for $12.95 a month forever, a scam run by experian. My credit had been hit by an identify thief,and I've been trying to get some false info taken off my experian report. The online site didn't work. Calling the toll free number got me an automated thingy and no way to reach a live operator to explain what I actually needed, so today after a couple of weeks I got the form letter refusing to give me the report I'm entitled to under federal law, so I started calling, to try to reach a live human being.
    No live response at the 1-877 number, just loops of answering machines that hung up after awhile.
    So I called corporate at 714.830.7000, at 5:29 pm eastern. Operator hung up on me. Called back, same operator, wouldn't tell me her name, wouldn't put me through to a supervisor, kept sending me to an answering machine that after awhile of canned ads hung up on me. Went through this 4 times.

    I've been meaning to email tony.hadley@experian.com> vp govt relations
    Matthew Besler Public Relations Manager ("flack", not a real manager) Tel: +1 224 698 4415 Email: matthew.besler@experian.com, about this, to ask them why they don't answer their phones,
    but I'm lazy and didn't get around to it.
    So, experian, are you going to answer your phone next time I call?

    1. Re:Experian won't answer its phone. by sconeu · · Score: 2, Informative

      [AOL] Me Too [/AOL]

      I had a case of ID theft, filed a police report and everything. Experian kept telling me I wasn't me.
      Equifax and TransUnion had no problems.

      Experian are a bunch of asshats.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    2. Re:Experian won't answer its phone. by ageoffri · · Score: 5, Informative
      DO NOT USE THE PHONE OR EMAIL This can't be stated enough. Check out http://www.creditboards.com/ for more then enough information to successfully fight the 3 major Credit Reporting Agencies. About 2.5 years ago I had one stupid credit card company decide that since my sister and I have the same first letter in our first names that we were the same person and they closed my account also and listed it as a charge off due to bankruptcy which my sister did file. After I figured out what they did the company was very quick to correct the mistake. I then sent letters to the 3 CRA's and two of them followed the law and removed the bankruptcy and updated my account. After repeated attempts with the third I sent a letter labeled Intent to Sue and listed the legal statues that I was prepared to sue under. Almost immediately they corrected the information.

      Send everything in writing and send it certified mail return receipt, yes it is a pain but when the time comes to the the CRA to small claims court you have everything you need.

      --
      -- Slashdot, making the Left look conservative since 1997.
    3. Re:Experian won't answer its phone. by isorox · · Score: 1

      So, experian, are you going to answer your phone next time I call?

      If they don't answer their phone I doubt they'll respond via slashdot. Write a registered letter

    4. Re:Experian won't answer its phone. by foniksonik · · Score: 1

      Additionally if you don't get a response there... contact your State Attorney General. Mail a physical letter to him/her stating your problem. You'll get some quick results. If you work at a prominent company in your state or belong to any other organization that would push you to the top of the pile, get some letterhead to put it on. If you don't work somewhere, go 'borrow' some letterhead from a bank or law firm. If you have an attorney already for any reason.. have them write the letter on your behalf... even quicker results (unless your attorney has somehow wronged the AG ;-p)

      --
      A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
    5. Re:Experian won't answer its phone. by Frank+T.+Lofaro+Jr. · · Score: 1

      Let me guess, the bureau that gave you trouble was Experian, right?

      --
      Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
  12. Re:Too lazy... by Brian+Gordon · · Score: 1

    People don't care about corporate corruption. Corporate corruption doesn't ruin their lives. Their life savings vanishing and finding themselves in a million dollars of debt 5 years before retirement does.

  13. Re:The Problem with credit freezes by puck01 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Your absolutely right about the importance of having a credit history. A short credit history can kill a credit score even without any delinquencies or other negative factors.

    I do take issue with the benefit of keeping the credit limit low. A potential lender may see larger limits and take that as a sign that other lenders feel comfortable extending credit to you. This is reflected in how the score is calculated. I use Experian's site regularly because I have free access due to my previous job (employer exposed employee data so they bought us all full access). There is a section where you can modify a number of the factors that affect your credit score and see what your score would be with the modified factors. Raising your limits on your credit cards accounts can improve your score. What will harm your score is having a low total percentage of credit available. For example if you have a balance of $400 on credit cards with a total limit of $500 between your credit cards, you will only have 20% of your credit available. This will negatively affect your credit score. If you have a $10,000 total limit with the same $400 balance, your percent of available credit is close to 100% and your score with be much higher.

  14. new income stream by mmeister · · Score: 2, Insightful

    these guys are just looking for a new income stream.

    Are they taking responsibility for the fact they give you sensitive information which might compromise your identity? No. Instead, they say for $10 per transaction (freeze/unfreeze), you can do it.

    Welcome to the new corrupt America where we are all treated like some kind of cash machine, be it from corporations or gov't agencies.

  15. Re:The Problem with credit freezes by EvanED · · Score: 1

    Having good credit can also help lower rates for stuff like car payments (I assume, though I don't have 1st hand knowledge) and insurance (which I do have semi-1st hand knowledge of).

  16. That's nice... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2, Funny

    How about giving back my identity and life, and maybe throwing in a free iPhone for kicks? Signed, Joe Blow Consumer

    1. Re:That's nice... by TubeSteak · · Score: 2, Funny

      How about giving back my identity and life, and maybe throwing in a free iPhone for kicks? Signed, Joe Blow Consumer Dear Joe,
      After checking your credit score, we talked with the credit bureaus & discovered you won't be able to afford >$1,000 a year in cellular service anyways.

      Sorry, no iPhone for you.
      Signed,
      AT&T
      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
  17. Tell TransUnion what you think of their new plan by mmeister · · Score: 1

    Be sure to tell Mr. Katz how much you enjoy getting bent over by TransUnion.

    CONTACT: Steve Katz of TransUnion, +1-312-985-2373,
    skatz@transunion.com

  18. What's to stop a thief from lifting it? by zymurgy_cat · · Score: 2, Insightful

    From the article:

    To place a freeze with TransUnion, consumers will need to submit a request via certified mail, but they will be able to lift it via regular mail or by telephone.

    Uh, isn't this backwards? It takes certified mail to issue the stop, but only a phone call to lift it? That's like saying it takes a key, password, and retina scan to shut down your computer but nothing else to turn it on. What's to stop a determined identity thief from lifting the freeze with a phone call?

    --
    -- Fugacity: Confusing chemists since 1908
    1. Re:What's to stop a thief from lifting it? by FLEB · · Score: 1

      Here's what I'm assuming--

      Since you're initiating the process from scratch, the reason they need a mailing to initiate the freeze is firstly: the cover-your-ass surety of certified mail, and secondly: you're doing all the "initiation" bits there-- passing them the initial "key" information you'll use to unlock your account later, and giving them the information you need to associate your request with your account. When you're unlocking, however, all you're doing is reciting the "key"-- they have all the other relevant info-- and effecting a status change. Basically, there's a lot more raw information getting passed around to freeze the account, versus unfreezing.

      Also, people may legitimately need to unfreeze their accounts in a relative hurry.

      --
      Information wants to be free.
      Entertainment wants to be paid.
      You just want to be cheap.
    2. Re:What's to stop a thief from lifting it? by athdemo · · Score: 1

      That does seem odd. I filed for a temporary credit alert through Equifax, and it worked the opposite way, as you said. I was able to file it relatively easily, just providing some basic information, but to take it down I had to mail them my SSN and two other forms of verification (copy of my driver's license and a credit card statement for me). Interestingly, the thing is not actually off my credit report even after they mailed me in response saying that it was. I applied for a student loan and got a call saying they couldn't process it automatically because of it being on my credit report. Don't know what the deal is, and I really despise the struggle inherent in finding out what it is.

  19. You've all got it wrong, its like this: by Gary+W.+Longsine · · Score: 5, Funny

    1) Lobby Congress with many millions of dollars over many years so that your industry, an entirely artificial creation of oligopolies over which you have no influence, can fuck up your life with their piss poor security and even random errors in their "system" 2) Watch as consumers get their lives fucked up when bad guys exploit an entirely different but also screwed up monopoly that entered your life and over which you have no control or influence (Windows) 3) Charge people a fee every time they need to "start" and "stop" your "service" to protect them from item 2 4) Profit!

    --
    If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
    1. Re:You've all got it wrong, its like this: by OldHawk777 · · Score: 1

      I agree, ID-theft is big USA business. ID as personal property ended decades ago. Long ago all names and Social Security Numbers (SSN) were in the wild of the W3. When credit/finance, retail stores, banks ... many businesses (& Government) are held financially responsible for allowing the ID ... personal data/content (loans, medical, purchases ...) theft, then maybe the corporatist-welfare laws will change. Most places still demand your SSN for ID. Few care where you lived for the last ##years. Many ways to stop most to all ID theft, but then big USA business would lose many (end of year) tax-deductions. Also, the whole nascent ID-Theft-protection (mafia-like) business sector would collapse.

      I say folks should sue the companies that harass them about an ID theft problem, because the problem is with the business and government that provided your ID, credit ... to fraudulent criminals to obtain/steal the property and services. Why should any law abiding good citizens be aggravated (half to death) for a problem not created by them and/or a crime in which they had no knowledge/involvement.

      I guess; in the Corporate States of America (CSA), you can buy a politician or you can buy protection, but you can not afford both "OR" you do not need to pay for protection. GOD BLESS THE CSA!

      Has anyone heard (rumor, I hope) that the state of Washington may be changing the state name to Boeing or Gateston. I have heard the Boeing and M$ are bidding against each other, and trying to pack the state legislature for renaming the state to be more meaningfully to US business. Don't worry, I don't think, Zip/Area codes will change.

      Boeing (local folks would call it Boring) or Gateston (local folks would call it Fakeston)

      --
      Unaccountable leaders are masters, and unrepresented people are slaves. How do US and EU fare?
    2. Re:You've all got it wrong, its like this: by sesshomaru · · Score: 1
      Bill Gates: <outraged> Balmerberg?!?!

      Steve Ballmer: It's just a tiny little town.

      Bill Gates: Balmerberg?!?!

      Steve Ballmer: But Melinda has her own place... fine, fine I'll erase it....

      --
      "MIT betrayed all of its basic principles."
    3. Re:You've all got it wrong, its like this: by Steavis · · Score: 1

      Dude, kudos for the Superman reference. I'd +1 if I could :)

      --
      If Star Trek had the internet: Captain, we've received an IM from the romulans. "Surrender or be destroyed. LOL. o.O"
  20. Possible problematic detail... by Chris+Snook · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Acceptable forms of payment are American Express, Discover, MasterCard and Visa."

    --
    There's no failure quite as dissatisfying as a complete and total solution to the wrong problem.
  21. Re:Too lazy... by Chmcginn · · Score: 1

    For anyone to lose their entire life savings because of Enron meant that their entire life savings was is one company's stock. This is not sound financial planning.

    --
    Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
  22. Re:The Problem with credit freezes by lena_10326 · · Score: 1
    Well, I think the order of events would go like this:
    1. Open several starter accounts. You won't have much credit so you'll be at much lower risk level than someone with a great credit history.
    2. You build a credit history over a couple years.
    3. You buy your house.
    4. You freeze your credit file.
    After the freeze, existing accounts would still post monthly reports so you're still going to have a continuous credit history even with a frozen file, if it's done that way. I admit there would still be a window of time where you're vulnerable, but having the freeze is better than what we've had before.

    By the way, I had always thought the freeze ability was already there because I've heard of this as far back as 10 years ago. It was supposedly possible to get the freeze done at all 3 credit bureaus, but it was difficult and typically used for notable people, such as movie stars and politicians. And, I'm not referring to opting out of pre-screen offers; I explicitly mean a credit file freeze. But, I heard that from 2 money guys on the radio, so not totally sure if they knew what they were talking about.
    --
    Camping on quad since 1996.
  23. So much fuss, so little problem. by seebs · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The whole problem with identity theft and abuse would be so very easy to fix.

    1. By law, make it the creditor's problem to prove that charges or credit requests were legitimate.
    2. Preemptively invalidate absolutely ALL contract terms, agreements, or otherwise, which shift this burden. Period.

    If there were an economic incentive for security, banks would be secure.

    Right now, citibank employees will tell you to enter information about your accounts on the web site in "that email" if it has their logo. They don't know what sites are theirs or not. Paypal sends stuff out that comes from "x.com" -- try explaining THAT one to someone who's not aware of their history. Why? Because it's mostly not their problem.

    --
    My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
    1. Re:So much fuss, so little problem. by Duncan3 · · Score: 2, Informative

      1. By law, make it the creditor's problem to prove that charges or credit requests were legitimate.

      Funny thing that. It is.

      --
      - Adam L. Beberg - The Cosm Project - http://www.mithral.com/
    2. Re:So much fuss, so little problem. by seebs · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Right now, there's some ambiguity, and some grey areas, and I believe they are allowed to get away with demonstrating only that they had a good-faith belief. I want them to have to prove that the belief was correct. Right now, it's up to the victim to establish that there was identity theft or whatever.

      --
      My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
  24. Re:The Problem with credit freezes by puck01 · · Score: 1

    Wow.

    The reality is there are people in this world that have money to invest. Some do it by lending money to others that need money for things....houses, cars, buying dinner, whatever. All investing has a certain amount of risk, including lending. Anyone who invests or lends wants to assess and minimize risk. Some might equate low risk with trust. The reality is that even the most trustworthy people have emergencies or personal disasters that result in the inability to pay off debts. Defaulting on loans is nightmare for lenders usually. Don't believe me? Check out some of the many forums where lenders hang out. It doesn't take many bad choices to result in lost money.

    In any case, if anyone needs to get a clue, its you.

    Personally, I have more debt than most due to years of schooling in addition to the normal stuff. As much as I hate it, I'm thankful I was able to borrow that money to pay for my education for >8 years and still survive. I do consider most of it more of an investment anyway. Now that I have a real job I also invest and lend. There is such a thing as mutually beneficial situations and hopefully a borrower is doing so to benefit themselves and/or their family.

  25. It goes deeper than that by swb · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It goes deeper than that. Companies you have credit with will extend you more credit than you think you have (often in the form of higher limits) not just because they like you, but because it can actually lower your credit score by making you more "at risk" for being in debt because you have access to credit.

    This helps, say, your credit card issuer because you'll get fewer or less lucrative offers to switch to other cards because you are higher risk, but it also means you might pay a higher interest rate on things you DO want to buy on credit (like a car).

    If you can freeze your credit, credit issuers can't silently over-credit you and drive up your cost of credit at the same time.

    IMHO, the credit "industry" is a major racket which only appears to be a marketplace; the customers of the credit reporting clearinghouses are the lenders, and the lenders benefit from lower credit ratings and scores by being able to charge higher interest rates. The credit clearinghouses have ZERO incentive to have accurate records, fair correction policies or transparent scoring algorithms; their customer, the lenders, benefit from consumer-unfriendly policies through both higher interest rates and lender-leaning policies that treat borrowers suspiciously.

    I don't know, but I've often speculated that the mortgage crisis, which is actually a bad-lending-policy crisis, happened because some renegade lenders figured out several years ago that the clearinghouses were manipulating data against consumers grossly enough that a market was being denied credit generally unfairly. Of course this blossomed into a get-rich-quick real estate bubble, but the technical origins were in our "traditional" credit markets being lender-skewed by the reporting agencies and non-traditional lenders exploiting this gap.

    I'd like to see MUCH greater regulation of the reporting agencies, including mandating transparency of records (eg, I get access to everything you share/sell about me in whatever format you package it in), record freezing, banning scoring (force lenders to make decisions based on actual borrowing and payment histories) or at least making the scoring process totally transparent and subject to regulation (ie, queries alone can't lower your score, scoring only based on borrwing and payment histories), requiring a simpler challenge process with the burden of proof greatly shifted to lenders (eg, electronic-only records not in consumers favor MUST be removed if challenges, lenders must provide non-electronic proof of discrepencies, etc).

    I'd also like to see credit reporting ONLY available to lenders, not to employers or landlords or anyone else not extending credit trying to judge personality or whatever they use it for.

    Its just amazing how little control we have over our credit dossiers and how much influence it has over many details of life. You can get caught raping a 10 year old and win a million dollar settlement if the cop who arrests you even THINKS about smacking you, yet even if you're the best credit consumer in the world you can get dicked over by the credit reporting agencies with only the weakest of "rights" available to you.

    1. Re:It goes deeper than that by GizmoToy · · Score: 4, Informative

      Credit freezes would have no effect on pre-existing credit. This would not stop anyone from raising your credit card limits as access to your credit report is not required to do so. They can, and usually will, provide limits increases based solely upon your previous spending habits and payment history.

      I frequently read through CreditBoards, and while having a lot of available credit could conceivably hurt you, actually being denied for having too much credit is pretty rare and seems to only apply to mortgages. In this case, the loan officer will instruct you to close some tradelines before they will proceed. This practice hardly seem predatory, especially given the multitude of other huge problems with the CRA system.

    2. Re:It goes deeper than that by Libertarian001 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You've made some interesting points, and generally speaking I'd agree with you about new legislations, system transparency, et al. Then it dawns on me: Why exactly does this for profit corporation think that they have any right to 1) track my financial transactions*, 2) sell that information to anyone and everyone, 3) make no effort at accuracy and actively fight against the people they're tracking and 4) charge me to view the records they're keeping on me without my permission?

      *A few transactions are actually a matter of public record, like real estate. Note, however, that how something is financed is a private affair and is generally not publicly available (unless it's something like a city building a ball park).

      As to what the lack of information on my credit worthiness would do to the credit-lending industry... I would submit that that industry is the cause of a rather large problem in the U.S., much the way a crack dealer regularly supplying a drug addict is a problem.

      On a side note, this industry is entirely jacked up. Sure, rich people "deserve" to have nice low rates on their loans. That said, artificially increasing the rate on people with a lower score makes it that much more likely that someone who already has a hard time re-paying the loan will default. Obviously if you can't afford it then you shouldn't be buying it. I refer you to the crack analogy above.

    3. Re:It goes deeper than that by peterofoz · · Score: 2, Informative

      Just before we refinanced our home mortgage I had to pay of and cancel several credit cards and ask the remaining ones to lower our credit limit from $50,000 to about $5,000. The credit card companies were 'consuming' our ratings which reduced our ability to get a much lower cost mortgage. Now I just carry 2 cards: 1 for work and 1 for home.

    4. Re:It goes deeper than that by saikou · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'd say that's the right observation for completely wrong reasons. Your credit score depends on the amount of the credit line you use. So if you have a card that's being used up to 90% and then your creditor increases your credit line so you only use 60% of your card the score improves (that's also why it's recomended to have several cards and spread your charges around instead of using one to the max).
      You may have problem only if your total amount of credit starts to exceed your possible income. But in that case you don't really need another credit card anyways (though it may have implications for getting a different type of credit such as mortgage etc)
      But yes, credit companies love to extend the credit to "not credit worthy" because there is a better chance of getting fees/interest payments/etc.

      Of course it's more fun to think that all of the free credit increases you get are just companies trying to "get you". But it's sorta like believing that cities that provide water service do it so they can put "evil drugs" in the water. And electric companies transmit through the power lines hidden mind control signals.

      If credit card is really interested in screwing you, they wouldn't increase your credit line. Instead they'd report to credit agencies that you were late with your payment 3 times by more than 30 days, which'll put your rating in the toilet so much faster.

    5. Re:It goes deeper than that by pgrst · · Score: 2, Informative

      It goes deeper than that. Companies you have credit with will extend you more credit than you think you have (often in the form of higher limits) not just because they like you, but because it can actually lower your credit score by making you more "at risk" for being in debt because you have access to credit.

      This is a common misconception regarding credit limits. larger credit lines do not decrease credit scores. An increased credit line decreases a) credit utilization for that specific credit line and b) overall credit utilization. - Two of the primary determinants of credit scores. (of course, this assumes that when the individual is offered more credit the individual does not run up more charges...)

    6. Re:It goes deeper than that by ckokotay · · Score: 1

      Right, lower balances on high limit cards do not decrease the 'score'. However, a mortgage lender doesn't just look at the score - they look at the whole report, and the combination of score/report is used to place you in the worst rate category they have for your 'category'. Everything is done to maximize their take - not get you the best deal. Now for FHA loans, they only look at the contents of the report, not the score.

      --
      It does not matter what you do, it's wrong.
    7. Re:It goes deeper than that by swb · · Score: 1

      It is not required that you borrow money.

      It's not required that you participate in modern life, either, but its damn hard to do it without access to credit. And I'm not talking about dumbshit consumer debt wasted on dining out, clothes, big-screen TVs and look-at-me cars; I'm talking about renting a car or a hotel room, buying a house/condo, hell, even getting a *job* often requires a credit check and one that comes back with "no credit history" will surely raise red flags.

      I haven't personally had a problem with the credit system -- I pay my bills on time and my ONLY debt is my house. However, I also don't think that the credit "system" is anything more fair than a casino where the house controls the odds and sets the minimum bid.

    8. Re:It goes deeper than that by Shadow99_1 · · Score: 1

      Personally I've tried a few times after getting a raise to borrow some cash, at the time for a ring for my now ex-girlfriend, and was denied for having to much credit... None of my cards is maxed, but they specifically list me as having to much credit in general. The funny part of this is that most of my cards have maybe 50% load with a limit no higher than 1.5k, credit card-wise, and the only reason I wanted to add a line of credit was to avoid having to use multiple cards and potentially max one or more of them to buy them. I only have 3 cards anyways, so it's not like I have alot of them. A bank didn't want to give me a loan for a whopping $800, with them saying that I wasn't interesting enough to them with such a small sum.

      Oh well my now ex-girlfriend took care of that problem by dumping me while trying to work out how to afford the ring to ask her to marry me with...

      --
      we are all invisible unless we choose otherwise
    9. Re:It goes deeper than that by djh101010 · · Score: 1

      Oh well my now ex-girlfriend took care of that problem by dumping me while trying to work out how to afford the ring to ask her to marry me with...
      Sounds like the bank may have inadvertently done you a favor on that one.
    10. Re:It goes deeper than that by jafac · · Score: 1

      It's worse than just a bad-lending-practices crisis. It's a Media Monopoly crisis. Haven't you watched CNN/Fox/MSNBCBS? The problem isn't the lenders, the problem is just a few bad borrowers (subprime) and the fact that all these mortgage backed securities bundled the subprimes in too complexly, so that risk cannot be assessed on these securities. THAT'S the "official" story.

      And the problem with this is - we will NOT learn from this mistake. Just like we did not learn from our past mistakes of the S&L crisis of the late 1980's. The media has SO distorted what the cause of the problem is: (Bad monetary policy, along with the fact that, when these private banks and lenders fail, taxpayers bail them out - but when the borrowers fail, nobody bails them out, and they're still obligated as taxpayers to bail out the failed lenders! - and the borrow/lend expertise is supposed to be the DOMAIN of the lender, not the borrower, yet it's the borrower who is being punished for a bad loan? Not the lender?).

      This will be a wholesale raping of the American middle class, the taxpayer, the treasury, the value of the US dollar - and in 10 years, this nation will be wholly owned by foreign corporate interests.

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
    11. Re:It goes deeper than that by BalanceOfJudgement · · Score: 1

      If credit card is really interested in screwing you, they wouldn't increase your credit line. Instead they'd report to credit agencies that you were late with your payment 3 times by more than 30 days, which'll put your rating in the toilet so much faster.


      No, because the instant you realize your credit report is inaccurate, you change it and they lose their edge.

      It's much more advantageous to dangle a carrot in front of you that's poisoned, and benefit when you take it. Then, the fault is ENTIRELY yours, YOU entered into the agreement and there's nothing inaccurate about it.

      And if you think they haven't thought of this, and build their business practices around it, you're naive. Their WHOLE JOB is to think of things like this.
      --

      We are the fire that lights our world.. and we are the fire that consumes it.
    12. Re:It goes deeper than that by BalanceOfJudgement · · Score: 1

      larger credit lines do not decrease credit scores.


      At a certain point they do. Since the scoring algorithms aren't transparent, we can't know at what point, but once you've got enough credit to potentially owe far more than you can repay, your score is going to go down.

      The score takes into account how much debt you can potentially be in tomorrow, if you suddenly decide to spend every cent of credit you have. The higher your credit limit relative to your earnings, the more that counts against you.
      --

      We are the fire that lights our world.. and we are the fire that consumes it.
    13. Re:It goes deeper than that by untaken_name · · Score: 1

      This will be a wholesale raping of the American middle class, the taxpayer, the treasury, the value of the US dollar - and in 10 years, this nation will be wholly owned by foreign corporate interests.

      I get it...you're posting from 10 years in the past! That's amazing!

    14. Re:It goes deeper than that by dave1g · · Score: 1

      50% load is pretty bad, try paying off some of the cards in full while only paying the minimum on the others. That may help your credit.

      I had a problem with Sprint getting cell phone service because they thought I had bad credit. Turns out the real reason was that I had a maxed out card. The card was a 0% interest for 12 months card with no balance transfer fee. so when I got the offer in the mail I thought "free interest for a year" which is a financially smart decision. I have done it many times across the last 4 years. and Always pay them off in full when the intro rate disappears. Its a great way to take advantage of credit cards while earning interest in your bank account (~5% on paypal, or similar internet "direct" banks.....I know paypal isnt a bank....blah blah)

      Anyway, since she dumped you I guess it was a good thing you didnt buy the ring.

  26. Re:The Problem with credit freezes by FLEB · · Score: 1

    Granted, this is just something I recall my mortgage broker saying a year ago (so take with salt as necessary), but I've heard that a critical component of assessing your credit is available credit versus utilized/outstanding debt. Having a higher credit limit (with low utilization) is a good thing-- I think it's thinking along the lines of "if you come into hard times, you can use your available credit to soak up other bills, and still pay us." (Of course, upping your limits just before looking to mortgage does trip fishiness filters.)

    --
    Information wants to be free.
    Entertainment wants to be paid.
    You just want to be cheap.
  27. Re:Tell TransUnion what you think of their new pla by Lord_Breetai · · Score: 1

    Be sure to tell Mr. Katz how much you enjoy getting bent over by TransUnion.

    CONTACT: Steve Katz of TransUnion, +1-312-985-2373,
    skatz@transunion.com Katz, eh? He'll just say "All your credit are belong to us."
    --
    "You are only young once, but you can be immature forever." -www.animemusicvideos.org
  28. Re:The Problem with credit freezes by Frogbert · · Score: 1

    Perhaps because up until this point he has managed to live within his means and not need short term loans to survive. In addition he has manged to save up enough money for a deposit for a house, despite having less money available to him.

  29. Re:Tell TransUnion what you think of their new pla by mmeister · · Score: 1

    I think if he got 10,000 emails saying basically "thanks for the new scam" and it might just raise a few eyebrows at TransUnion.

  30. Identity clearinghouse by Dachannien · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I've been a proponent for quite some time of an "identity clearinghouse" - an independent government-funded organization to which you could optionally submit your current contact information for the purposes of verifying your identity. Credit offerors (banks, CC companies, etc.) would be required by law to check with the clearinghouse before they could open a line of credit for anybody. The process of signing up for the clearinghouse or of changing one's information would have to be done in person at one's local DMV, where in nearly every state they already have computer photo records of everyone who has a license or ID card.

    The clearinghouse would take the lender's verification request, determine whether the purported credit applicant was listed in the database, and if not, they would respond that the person isn't listed. The lender could then open the line of credit. If the applicant is listed, then the clearinghouse attempts to contact the applicant using the contact information on record to verify the request, first by phone, then by mail (the applicant could also request only to be contacted by mail, or could request that all verifications be denied until further notice). If the applicant verifies the credit request, then the lender is notified with a simple "yes" and can then open the line of credit. Otherwise, the lender is notified with "no" and is forbidden from offering credit under that application.

    Any lender found to have opened a line of credit for a person who refused to verify a credit request would become fully liable for that line of credit. The reporting agencies would be required to remove the credit line from the person's records. Any legal costs incurred would also become the lender's responsibility.

    The system would be funded via a fee charged for every verification request.

    This wouldn't solve all identity theft problems. For example, if someone steals your credit card, you're still on the hook (at least as much as your credit card issuer doesn't cover). It wouldn't necessarily cover interception of one's mail. But it would make mass ripoffs of PII useless.

  31. Re:Tell TransUnion what you think of their new pla by Lehk228 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    100,000 emails with "Eh..." in them would do more.

    --
    Snowden and Manning are heroes.
  32. Re:The Problem with credit freezes by Alpha830RulZ · · Score: 1

    Well, what will go into the model will be things like: income, length of employment, other open trade lines(loans/credit cards). If you have several years of employment, decent income with no debt, you won't have any problem. But it wouldn't hurt to have had a credit card that you paid off to zero every month.

    --
    I was taught to respect my elders. The trouble is, it's getting harder and harder to find some.
  33. Re:Too lazy... by umghhh · · Score: 1

    what about half of the life savings. Or third of it? Would it do? This still can push you over the border to poverty even if not immediately. Unless of course you will decide to take justice into your own hands and spend the remaining parts of your life in federal prison for murder then you will not live in poverty. Choice is yours.

  34. Re:The Problem with credit freezes by jrumney · · Score: 1

    In addition he has manged to save up enough money for a deposit for a house, despite having less money available to him.

    Long term, he'll have had more money available to him, as he hasn't been paying interest on his expenditure.

  35. Re:The Problem with credit freezes by jrumney · · Score: 1

    But it wouldn't hurt to have had a credit card that you paid off to zero every month.

    I have one of those, Experian has no knowledge of it, so it doesn't help one bit. Some banks only share details of defaults with credit agencies, at least in the UK.

  36. Re:The Problem with credit freezes by dargaud · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The way the US loan system works has always seemed absurd to me: it's easier to get a loan if you have always been in debt than if you have always have a clean debt-free life. Doesn't make any sense.

    --
    Non-Linux Penguins ?
  37. It's a crime against G*d and mankind by VanessaE · · Score: 1
    We're all supposed to be cvilized people who are supposed to take care of one another. Why don't these agencies, or for that matter anyone else in power, ever seriously consider those of us who really had no choice but to let our credit slip?


    My husband and I are disabled, and until a few years ago were not able to get on top of our bills. During the years leading up to my husband's disability declaration (I was denied), our credit had gradually fallen, with no way to recover. Today we're doing better, but our credit is still hosed. We'd like to pay off those old debts and fix our credit, but according to someone in the credit industry whom I spoke with about a week ago, even if we could pay them off, there would be no point because the debts are too *old* to matter! All that paying them would do is remove certain 'flags' from our credit reports. The debts would remain listed (as "paid") and it would most certainly NOT improve our Beacon scores, he says. To raise that score, we were told, we have to find some way to get a line of credit from someone who reports to the credit agencies, and few companies (if any) want to give anyone a line of credit if their score is too low.

    It's the ultimate catch-22. Basically, to get a line of credit, you have to fix your credit first, and to fix your credit, you have to get a line of credit first. So if for any reason, your credit drops below a certain score, you're too much of a 'risk' for further credit, and you're fucked for the rest of your life if you're disabled, unless you're particularly lucky anyway.

    It's as though your worth as a human being has been distilled down to a single, three-digit number, and it is truly disgusting that we-the-people allow this kind of crap.

    1. Re:It's a crime against G*d and mankind by Vegeta99 · · Score: 1

      Here's a tip that worked for me, I'm 21, and was an emancipated minor. When the economy starts looking bad, the first ones they get rid of are the 16 year olds who aren't really technically old enough to be there, so I bombed my credit, because I couldn't pay rent and whatnot.

      Once I got on top of things, I wrote everyone I owed money a letter with a check. The letter said that even though the debt is written off, I would like to pay it back, as long as they agreed to remove it from my report. It also said that cashing the check itself constituted agreement. I didn't put any account info on the check or letter - just an SSN - so theoretically, the envelope-opening monkey couldn't just tap in an account number and cash the check off without removing it.

      It did work, but not in all cases. Unfortunately, I don't know how to fight it (or if I really could), but hey, some result is better than no result!

  38. Disable all services you don't use by iangoldby · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It seems to me that a credit freeze is similar to the system administrators' principle that you don't leave running services that you don't need. If you get no benefit from a service, why accept the risk that it poses, even if that risk is very small? Similarly, if you don't need credit, why make it even possible for someone else to get credit in your name?

    Here in the UK, someone by the name of Jamie Jamieson came up with a way to exploit a UK law that says that everyone has a right to place a "Notice of Correction" in their credit report, which lenders must take into account when they assess your credit. Full details are given at http://www.freeidprotection.co.uk/ but in short, you send the three UK credit agencies a notice of correction stating that any application for credit by you will be accompanied by your thumbprint, and that any application not accompanied by your thumbprint should be considered fraudulent.

    It's important to note that the credit agency is not expected to verify that the thumbprint is yours. But most fraudsters would not know in advance that a thumbprint would be necessary, and certainly would not want to supply their own...

    I have no idea whether this would work in the USA.

  39. heading off state laws by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is just a ploy to stop more states from passing freeze laws. In Ohio, they wanted $10 with the proposed freeze law. Everyone is screaming that's too much and to make it $2 or free.

    They really need sued.

  40. Educate Yourself by encoderer · · Score: 4, Informative

    I really think you should educate yourself. Maybe then you wouldn't say such stupid and offensive things. There are about 2 dozen books written about the Enron collapse but if you can't be bothered to actually READ you should at least pick up the Documentary Enron: The smartest guys in the room.

    First, there was a lot of corporate pressure for Employees to invest all their 401k allocation in company stock. This was pushed by the HR department as well as the C-level managers at corporate pep rallies. Second, Enron stock was GOING THRU THE ROOF. It was EXPLODING. You're sitting there, in the middle of the 90s boom, and you're seeing your co-workers dumping the max federal limit into their 401k's, every dime of it into company stock, you see the internal view of the company, flush with cash and growing like crazy, and you see those co-workers becoming MILLIONAIRES before your eyes. So you invest your 401k into Enron stock and get your boarding pass to the gravy train.

    Still, I can level with you that personal greed (however understandable) is what put them in that position. However, there's a whole lot of people who never really had a choice. PG&E was bought on the cheap and integrated them with the rest of the Enron West Cost energy assets. PG&E had an internal stock ownership program: employees were granted shares of the company. Lifelong employees had loads of stock in a company that had been local, with a solid business, for decades. This was their nest egg.

    When Enron bought them, they swapped PG&E shares for Enron shares. No doubt many of these employees were excited to see that, considering how Enrons stock was still going strong. But these are people who never really had a choice. They lost everything. And the very worst part of that story is that a Federal Bankruptcy Judge injuncted those employees from selling the stock. Enrons share price didn't collapse overnight. It took some time to unpeel that onion. At the same time, executives like Lou Pai were selling millions (even Hundreds of Millions) of dollars in Enron stock, these poor bastards who worked 40 years as linemen or plant operators were forced to just sit by and watch the stock price plunge.

    This was an absolute tragedy. These people were just bent over and fucked over and over by the company AND the government. You really should educate yourself before you speak.

    1. Re:Educate Yourself by jank1887 · · Score: 1

      I think Memron was a much better documentary. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0392439/

    2. Re:Educate Yourself by Knara · · Score: 1

      Wait wait wait. So, you're saying that because these people (who, if they held stock, had plenty of time to sell it and put their gains elsewhere than the company they worked for) were sheep who trusted the company they worked for to provide for them, like the corporation was some sort of kind benefactor looking out for their best interests, we should feel bad for them?

      Yeah, sure, the stock market is a zero sum game, but comeon, every ESPP has "sell" dates where people can ditch the stock. They weren't forced to keep it unless they foolishly had their entire 401k in their company's stock, which is a bad idea in the first place.

      I know, hindsight is 20/20, but really, just because the rank and file were on auto-pilot for most of their lives, doesn't mean we should regard them all as blameless victims.

    3. Re:Educate Yourself by encoderer · · Score: 1

      Somebody else addressed what you missed about the ESOP at PG&E.

      So I'll skip over that and correct one more thing:

      The stock market is NOT a zero sum game. The notion of a ZSG is that your gain is somebody else's loss. If I buy shares in XXXX for $100 and sell them next month an investor at $120, I made money, and he didn't LOSE anything -- those shares are WORTH $120.

      The difference is that wealth is created in the stock market when companies appreciate in value, not when you out-maneuver somebody else. A poker tournament is a ZSG: There is, say, $10,000 in value at the beginning of the tourney, spread out over 100 people, and $10,000 in value at the end of the tourney, spread over, say, 10. In the stock market, that's not the case.

      It may APPEAR ZSG if you look at one isolated trade, but that's deceptive.

    4. Re:Educate Yourself by Knara · · Score: 1

      They could have sold long, long before Enron was visibly in trouble. They put all their eggs in one basket, relying on a single source of investment for their retirement. They were on cruise-control, as I said, assuming that because they company they were working for appeared to be doing well, that they were set for life.

      My TV and my computer are insured because I know the possibility of them being stolen is real. That's the difference between myself and people who have all their investment funds in one pot.

    5. Re:Educate Yourself by Knara · · Score: 1

      You are right in that regard, there are not an equal amount of winners and losers in the stock market. I blame early morning slashdot posting without proper amounts of sleep last night. :)

      I replied to the (rather nasty) addressing of my ESSP/ESOP in the other subthread. In summary, sure they were prevented from selling when it was obvious that the house of cards was falling, but there was plenty of opportunity to avoid the pain of having a single investment source long, long before then.

    6. Re:Educate Yourself by Chmcginn · · Score: 1

      I really think you should educate yourself. Maybe then you wouldn't say such stupid and offensive things.

      ...

      Still, I can level with you that personal greed (however understandable) is what put them in that position.

      How is my original statement any different from your second statement here? The cliche "Don't put all your eggs in one basket." is quite appropriate here. Regardless of how good that basket looks, people should know that betting your life savings on one company is not a good idea. I'm not saying I don't feel sorry for this people, or that they weren't screwed by Lay & the rest. I'm saying they were screwed so badly because of poor planning on their own part.

      First, there was a lot of corporate pressure for Employees to invest all their 401k allocation in company stock. This was pushed by the HR department as well as the C-level managers at corporate pep rallies.
      Just because HR pushes something doesn't mean it's a good idea. Hell, I would say that HR being that pushy is probably a good sign that it is a poor idea.

      When Enron bought them, they swapped PG&E shares for Enron shares. No doubt many of these employees were excited to see that, considering how Enrons stock was still going strong. But these are people who never really had a choice. They lost everything. And the very worst part of that story is that a Federal Bankruptcy Judge injuncted those employees from selling the stock.

      True - PG&E stock owners weren't given a choice about selling their stock, or recieving Enron shares, after PG&E's bankruptcy proceeding began. For those whose stock had reached it's sell date, they were screwed by both companies. But those who let their stock pass its minimum sell date, and left all of their savings there... well, it's the same as above.

      This was an absolute tragedy.
      True.

      These people were just bent over and fucked over and over by the company AND the government.
      Also true.

      You really should educate yourself before you speak.
      I've been pretty well educated on corporate screwing. I've been laid off with no notice, and I've lost chunks of money to the stock market. Which is why I fail to see anything "stupid" about spreading my retirement savings around, nor telling others to do the same.
      --
      Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
  41. Re:The Problem with credit freezes by Siberwulf · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Good for him. Too bad the credit agencies don't agree.

  42. Re:The Problem with credit freezes by ArmyOfFun · · Score: 1

    It's really not that absurd. If you've demonstrated that you keep yourself out of debt, how can a lender make money off of you? That's the biggest issue. Lenders aren't charities (in general), and they don't make money if you don't go into debt.

    Another issue is verifying that if I lend you a bunch of cash, you will give me the money back at some point. If you've never handled a bunch of cash someone else gave you, how can I trust you'll be good with mine?

    What's more perplexing to me is that I've only had two lines of credit where I couldn't pay off the principle before any interest was due (a school loan which was still paid off quickly and a mortgage). Every thing else I've paid off before a penny of interest was due. In my eyes, this makes me a really lousy credit customer. The only way they make money off of me is from the transaction fees they charge stores when I use my credit. Yet, any time I've decided to open a new line of credit, I've never had a problem. Despite the fact that in all probability, they're barely going to make any money off of me (if any).

  43. Re:The Problem with credit freezes by base3 · · Score: 1

    On a manual review, maybe -- but the FICO scoring algorithm rewards maintenance of huge limits with low utilization. A person is better off with a $2,000 debt against a $20,000 credit limit than with $200 in debt against a $500 limit, all other things being equal.

    --
    One CPU cycle wasted on digital restrictions management is ONE TOO MANY.
  44. Re:Too lazy... by eno2001 · · Score: 1

    And why do their life savings vanish? What's the leading cause? [rim shot] CORPORATE CORRUPTION!!! You're welcome for letting me school you. HAND.

    --
    -"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
  45. Re:The Problem with credit freezes by dargaud · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If you've never handled a bunch of cash someone else gave you, how can I trust you'll be good with mine? If it was only about this, then it should be enough to show your monthly salary ('cash someone else gives you') and that you have no outstanding debt. QED. And it's exactly how it works in europe: there's no such thing as this credit reporting bureau bullshit. You are right, they want to squeeze you like a lemon, and not necessarily make sure you can pay back your loan properly. Otherwise why would they offer things like 2nd or 3rd mortgage ? After you fail payment, they move in, grab the loot and make even more this way. Or that's the way I understand it and I stay away from those guys at all costs.
    --
    Non-Linux Penguins ?
  46. Extortion - money for nothing? by flyingfsck · · Score: 1

    So now Americans have to PAY in order to NOT receive an UNWANTED service.

    If ever there ever was a business model that is sure to be profitable, this one is a winner.

    --
    Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
    1. Re:Extortion - money for nothing? by AnalogDiehard · · Score: 1

      So now Americans have to PAY in order to NOT receive an UNWANTED service.

      Before the cell phone boom, the bell companies made $$$ selling their phone lists to telemarketers.

      Then they tried to extort more $$$ from the customer by selling options that would combat telemarketing - caller ID, call blocking, etc.

      It was a great double-dipping $$$ scam until the phone customers got wind of it. Small wonder many of them abandoned land lines for cell phones.

      --
      Eternity: will that be smoking, or non-smoking? I Corinthians 6:9-10
  47. Re:The Problem with credit freezes by isorox · · Score: 1

    Why should a lender trust you to repay the $60K loan - the $100K loan - when you have no history of managing debt on a much smaller scale?

    At the moment in the UK it's over $300K for a 1 bed flat within an hour of London, $500K for one in London. Even if you somehow manage a 10% deposit ($30K)

    There is a house price crash coming, although even then a London flat will still be need well over $200K for a mortgage.

  48. Re:The Problem with credit freezes by Ihlosi · · Score: 1
    And it's exactly how it works in europe: there's no such thing as this credit reporting bureau bullshit.

    There is, they're just being less obnoxious, and Europeans aren't as obsessed with spending more money than they have than Americans. For example the SCHUFA in Germany.

  49. Re:The Problem with credit freezes by Glsai · · Score: 1

    Well truth be told he's not the only one, or maybe I'm your coworker :) I bought my place a little under a year ago. It is smart to have a low limit credit card, kept up to date. You also want to make sure you pay all your bills on time. If you do not have a credit history you will have to provide credit reference letters from electricity, phone, rent, etc that say how often you pay online. WoW accounts work because it is a monthly bill that gets paid on time :)

  50. lose home and auto inurance? by peter303 · · Score: 1

    I'm in a state where many insurance companies used creidt scores to adjust rates. (This is banned in some states.) What if the insurance company cannot longer read these? set to the highest rate then?

  51. Biggest Unreported Credit Fraud Crap by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 1
    The biggest piece of Crap information supplied by the credit reporting bureaus is when they tell (sell, actually) as part of your credit record, everyone else who has accessed your credit record to date.

    I personally know of banks that have refused to extend credit, or even consider applications, when they see a flurry of recent inquiry activity. They'll look for every loophole to deny credit to anyone they feel "is shopping around for credit."

    This inquiry history has no bearing on your true credit history and should not be kept at all since it can only hurt the consumer! Obviously this is something that makes the credit report more interesting to those making inquires and creating additional entries in this inquiry history field in the process, but it screws the borrower over royally!

    Yes I am upset about this practice, and never hear it discussed!

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  52. Re:The Problem with credit freezes by Frank+T.+Lofaro+Jr. · · Score: 1

    It was true when prices were going up, but not now since prices are going down.

    Which is why they'll likely make it much harder to get loans for high-risk borrowers.

    --
    Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
  53. Re:The Problem with credit freezes by Frank+T.+Lofaro+Jr. · · Score: 1

    They even have 4th mortgages now. How soon before someone offers a 5th mortgage? Or is that illegal?

    --
    Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
  54. Not quite what you think by charleste · · Score: 1

    Me too... but this is just called a "Fraud Alert" - which I have on all three credit bureaus. A freeze is a different kind of animal. A Fraud Alert causes a response by the credit bureau for you to call and verify the request is being made with your authorization. A Freeze on the other hand causes NO response.

  55. Re:Too lazy... by tacarat · · Score: 1

    For anyone to lose their entire life savings because of Enron meant that their entire life savings was is one company's stock. This is not sound financial planning.

    Aside from the slight exaggeration of the entire life savings, part of the Enron scandal was the employees got royally shafted due to their 401ks all being in the company stock. The higher ups dumped their stocks early when they knew things were going south, but the regular folks were left high and dry.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enron_scandal#Pensions

    --
    "Common sense will be the death of us all"
  56. Re:Too lazy... by Brian+Gordon · · Score: 1

    Identity theft?...

  57. Re:The Problem with credit freezes by puck01 · · Score: 1

    That is one possibility, but the people who study these things and have strong incentives (money) to get it right show that the larger credit limit implies improved the likelihood of not defaulting. That's just how it is.

  58. Re:The Problem with credit freezes by puck01 · · Score: 1

    Theoretically that could work. Problem is, income does not equal fiscal responsibility and is not as reliable an indicator of long term ability to pay off debt.

    You do not necessarily need to be in debt to have a credit history. Using a credit card to make routine purchases and paying it off completely each month is not what I would consider debt. Just because there are people who don't get the system and spend beyond their means, thus ruining their credit, doesn't mean its a flawed system. Personally, I think its more of a failure of families to educate their kids and the education system for failing to focus more of personal finance and math.

  59. Re:The Problem with credit freezes by zarqman · · Score: 1

    It's my understanding that the credit bureaus don't actually know what your credit limit is. try actually pulling your credit report sometime. it definitely has the credit limit. it also has when the account was opened, when it was closed (if it has been closed, of course), the most recent reported balance, and a whole lot of other stuff.
    --
    geek friendly VPS's and free API enabled DNS : zerigo.com
  60. credit freeze "rights?" by vldmr_krn · · Score: 1

    some 39 states and the District of Columbia have passed laws entitling their residents to credit freeze rights

    Residents have always had credit freeze rights. This law doesn't grant any new rights to anyone. It takes away the right of credit reporting bureaus to abstain from providing credit freeze services. I'm agnostic in my judgment of this move, but please don't obfuscate the meaning of "right" in the political context. I have the right to a trip to Disneyland, and Disneyland has the right to deny me admission if I don't buy a ticket. If Government passed a law making admission to Disneyland free, it wouldn't be granting me a right, but removing one from Disneyland (or more accurately, from the owners of Disneyland--the right to charge admission to enter their property).

  61. Re:The Problem with credit freezes by base3 · · Score: 1

    I don't know exact numerics, because Fair Issac keeps those close to the vest. But with the utilization you have on your cards, you're looking very good. There's a decent article about the credit scoring system here.

    --
    One CPU cycle wasted on digital restrictions management is ONE TOO MANY.
  62. Re:Too lazy... by Chmcginn · · Score: 1
    I've never had more than about 15% of my retirement savings on one place. Most often, that wasn't even stock from a single company, but a mutual fund. Still, that would certainly hurt. But 100%? In one place?

    "Don't put all your eggs in one basket" may be a cliche, but that's primarily because it's fairly sound advice.

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    Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?