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Designing Software With Privacy in Mind

dalektcalum writes "Dr. Ann Cavoukian, Canada's Information and Privacy Commissioner, recently gave a talk entitled Privacy by Design. The talk starts off by covering the basics of privacy, and privacy law, and then moves onto the important component: how to design software that properly protects users privacy. The majority of the talk is spent on design principles, but also examines specific technologies (such as Elliptical Curve Cryptography)." The site includes a flash video of the talk, but there are also several torrents for folks who want to avoid hammering their servers.

77 comments

  1. Konspiracy by bigmacd24 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Bah, user privacy my bottom. Information wants to be free! Now the government privacy komisar wanting to implement biometrics to 'protect' me seems like some crazy leftist nutjob after my vital fluids.

    1. Re:Konspiracy by holdenkarau · · Score: 0

      Did you even listen to the talk? Thats not what she was suggesting.

    2. Re:Konspiracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      dude, that person was obviously joking.

    3. Re:Konspiracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Bah, user privacy my bottom. Information wants to be free! Now the government privacy komisar wanting to implement biometrics to 'protect' me seems like some crazy leftist nutjob after my vital fluids.

      If they want my bodily fluide, they have only to kneel in front of me.

      Privacy by design is of no meaning in the face of a candy-ass government which legislates that all ISP equipment must be "cop-friendly".

  2. important points by crazyirishhobo · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Privacy is really important, and watching this talk makes me realize, I have not being doing my part as a software developer to respect users privacy. Hell I log way too much information, just to make debugging a little easier on the off chance I have to debug it in production. I'd encoruage all software developers out there to watch this talk, and take its message to heart.

    1. Re:important points by ninjapiratemonky · · Score: 0

      Who has the time? I mean, sure privacy cool, but what with the insane deadlines I face, I really don't have the time to go back over my debugging logic and remove everything that could potentially be logging sensitive information.

    2. Re:important points by fosterNutrition · · Score: 1

      It takes all of two seconds if you do it right:

      #define DEBUG

      #ifdef DEBUG
      logInsaneAmountsOfData();
      #endif

      And then when you go to production, remove the first line. Voila!

    3. Re:important points by mOdQuArK! · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That works right up until you're trying to debug a problem which occurs only in production.

    4. Re:important points by shmlco · · Score: 1

      How about like developing a service to store medical information online... and then tying it to a global ID you use for every other one of their online services?

      http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20071006-microsoft-wants-your-health-care-records-trust.html

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    5. Re:important points by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My company has its own logging system. It can be enabled/disabled on a per-user basis on demand.

    6. Re:important points by quanticle · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If you have problems in production that you don't have in test, then you're not doing your job properly. Ideally, you should be getting problems in test that you don't get in production, as you're pushing your code past realistic limits to see how it fails.

      --
      We all know what to do, but we don't know how to get re-elected once we have done it
    7. Re:important points by SoftwareJuggler · · Score: 1

      If you have problems in production that you don't have in test, then you're not doing your job properly. Only if you can control your production environment. If you are releasing your software to the general public, there is no way to test all of the configurations that are out there, so it is inevitable that you will have problems on configurations that were not tested against.
      --
      Enjoy -jim
  3. finally by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm really glad this talk finally made it online. I'm a UW student, but unfortunately wasn't able to attend (stupid cap on number of math students...)

  4. Possession is 9 points of the law by shanen · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'll believe they [the big companies and the government] are sincere about my privacy when they agree to store my personal information on *MY* disk space. Whenever they want to look at my personal information they need to tell me why, and I should have the right to say yea or nay to that request. Right now they claim that my personal information belongs to them, and there's no way for me to know anything about what they are doing with it.

    In more detail, this should actually be implemented by my settings of my privacy preferences. Most requests would be handled routinely without my needing to consider them in detail. For example, if I'm requesting a loan from my bank and they want to check my credit history, then my privacy policy would be to check that it was really my bank and that I had really initiated the loan request, and then they could look at the required information. If they need to compile some summary statistics, I'd agree for them to look at some of my information long enough to tally it. Etc., etc.

    If they need to make sure that I don't tamper with my data, they can sign it and put a checksum on it, and I won't be able to tamper with it. There are actually technologies that would still allow me to see what the information is even in that case. Actually, any technical problem you want to point at, I can refer you to the solutions. They are already published in the literature.

    The *REAL* problem is that the companies want to own us.

    --
    Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
    1. Re:Possession is 9 points of the law by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice post, but the important bit kind of makes the rest irrelevant: The *REAL* problem is that the companies want to own us. If the programmer must make it so that the company can fill its data warehouse, then he doesn't need to know about privacy enhancing techniques. Keeping data private would go against his job description.

  5. misread... by cosmocain · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...but interesting, too. ;)

    Designing Software With Piracy in Mind

    1. Re:misread... by roie_m · · Score: 1

      Good to know I'm not the only one.

  6. A concrete example for Gmail by shanen · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Picking on Google because of their prominence, but this is how Gmail could be designed to really respect my privacy by storing the data on my own computer. (This would also take care of the 2 GB limitation.)

    The email and the indexes would live on my machine. When I reading some email with Gmail, it would scan the email and send only the appropriate keywords to Google, and they would respond with the appropriate ads to be displayed in the appropriate boxes on my computer--but they would not have any direct access to my email once I had received it.

    This would actually open up a new field of backup services for email. Google could encrypt the email on my machine and backup only the encrypted data at their end. The encryption and decryption key need never be seen at their end--though of course I need to store them somewhere apart from the machine that is being backed up. They could also provide email syncing services in the same way without ever seeing the clear data that is being synced.

    --
    Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
    1. Re:A concrete example for Gmail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most of us use GMail because that way we can access our emails on ANY computer. If you save the emails on my computer, of what use is it?
      Anyway, you can do it: access via pop3, you can configure it to delete the emails on the server when you fetch them.

    2. Re:A concrete example for Gmail by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That might work for you if you keep your computer on and connected to the Internet at all time. Back in the day, people used web mail exactly because they didn't have a computer that was always connected to the 'net. If you do have a computer that is always on, you have no use for gmail. Just host your mail on your computer and you _will_ be in control, not just with respect to privacy, but also about the interface, supported protocols, ecryption, filtering; everything.

      --
      Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
    3. Re:A concrete example for Gmail by Chmcginn · · Score: 1

      This would actually open up a new field of backup services for email. Google could encrypt the email on my machine and backup only the encrypted data at their end. The encryption and decryption key need never be seen at their end--though of course I need to store them somewhere apart from the machine that is being backed up.

      Why bother storing it on your end if you're going to do this? A web-based email could encrypt email as you checked it, using a key stored on your machine, and then delete the original from the inbox.

      But only people who have something to hide encrypt things, right, citizen?

      --
      Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
    4. Re:A concrete example for Gmail by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 1

      No, you won't. You have no idea how many hops the data is making, who is in the middle, where copies are being stored.

      If you live your life in a way that demands privacy to assure your personal security, you will be disappointed.

      The privacy debates going these days are a bunch of bullshit. Privacy is a myth, and it serves the interests of those who already have access to all the data and don't want to lose that edge by sharing it with everyone else.

      We should be striving towards dismantling the myth, banishing hypocrisy and helping people deal with their deep dark secrets that they hide because of the real and present danger of being singled out and made to take responsibility for human failings they share with those who are judging them.

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    5. Re:A concrete example for Gmail by noidentity · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You do realize that e-mail is sent in cleartext the whole way, don't you?

    6. Re:A concrete example for Gmail by shanen · · Score: 1

      Because you need to have it in the clear to do the searching. (Actually this is not strictly true. There are ways to search encrypted data, but not as effectively.) Right now the indexing and searching runs on Google's servers, but if the mail is on your local machine, then you'd also do the indexing and searching on your own machine.

      It does get more complicated when you consider the funding aspects, which basically means advertising revenue in Google's case. However, the question here would be what needs to be paid for. The software design and implementation costs are unavoidable, but should I also be paying for Google's server capacity to do the searches when I have plenty of computing capacity right here to to my own searches?

      A large part of Google's software design (per the main article) has to be concerned with making sure email doesn't leak to the wrong user, but moving the data to the users' computers simplifies that part of the design. You can't leak information you don't have.

      I assume your last comment was supposed to be a joke. Me, I think the Bill of Rights was and still is a very good idea. Even a person who doesn't have "something to hide" can be manipulated and even enslaved with sufficient knowledge of that person's strengths and weaknesses.

      --
      Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
    7. Re:A concrete example for Gmail by Chmcginn · · Score: 1
      But this gets back to the other problem of accesibility. I like being able to check my email from home, work, or anywhere. I don't necessarily trust it enough to include, say, medical information there...

      And, yes, it's a good guess that anything with 'citizen' in it is probably a joke.

      --
      Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
    8. Re:A concrete example for Gmail by shanen · · Score: 1

      Okay, I'm correcting you because you got your facts wrong. You don't have to leave your computer on all day to receive non-Web-based email because the email is stored on servers until you receive it. Your point of confusion is apparently whether or not you want to be able to access that email from *ANY* computer that is connected to the Internet, or whether you should only be able to access that email from *YOUR* own computer. The question of whether or not your computer is turned on is purely specious. You can't read Gmail without turning on your computer.

      The big problem with being able to read your personal email from anywhere is that it basically means that anyone else can do so, too. This is the part where privacy is threatened--but it makes the neo-GOP very happy to have complete access to all of your personal data.

      As regards Gmail, there are several possible solutions, but I think people should be able to choose the privacy options they like. For example, one option would be to keep a certain amount of recent email on the Gmail servers so that it could be accessed from any computer. This might appeal to people who travel a lot without their own machines. The option I would prefer would be to download all of my mail to my specified computers. The Gmail end would have a list of my authorized computers and would hold the email in encrypted form only until each of those computers had downloaded its copy. My computers would be responsible for handling the indexing and searching locally, and I would also accept responsibility for my backups (by having more than one copy in this scenario). Other people might prefer only one copy, but with Google providing an encrypted backup for when they move to a new computer.

      --
      Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
    9. Re:A concrete example for Gmail by shanen · · Score: 1

      I addressed this in more detail in another reply, but it sounds like it would be sufficient access for you to replicate your email system among a relatively small number of computers (which would also solve your email backup problem).

      --
      Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
    10. Re:A concrete example for Gmail by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 1

      ``You don't have to leave your computer on all day to receive non-Web-based email because the email is stored on servers until you receive it.''

      Well, yes, of course, but I was replying to a post where the suggestion was that the mail is stored on _your_ computer. I interpreted that to mean that it isn't stored on someone else's server, because that would kind of make the whole point moot.

      ``The big problem with being able to read your personal email from anywhere is that it basically means that anyone else can do so, too.''

      In theory, yes. In practice, not if you use good encryption.

      --
      Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
    11. Re:A concrete example for Gmail by shanen · · Score: 1

      And what if the email is transmitted in the clear and passes by someone with a packet sniffer?

      By the way, that relates to one of the nifty but little known features of Gmail. If you access Gmail with HTTPS instead of HTTP, then the entire connection stays encrypted. Most other Web-based email systems only attempt to encrypt the password exchange, and then go into the clear.

      Though I can't prove it, I'm pretty sure that the email is stored in the clear on Gmail's servers. We know they are constantly searching and indexing your email for their advertising convenience, and that's most convenient to do if the email is in the clear.

      --
      Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
    12. Re:A concrete example for Gmail by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "And what if the email is transmitted in the clear and passes by someone with a packet sniffer?"

      I own my computer and I access e-mail (once on its mailbox) via secure protocols like IMAPS and/or HTTPS.
      Of course that doesn't cope with the MTA to MTA transmission which is usually in the clear.

      But then, that's what PGP/GPG is for.

      "Though I can't prove it, I'm pretty sure that the email is stored in the clear on Gmail's servers"

      That's pretty irrelevant. It's obvious that the end user is doing nothing to decypher e-mail on their side, so no matter how it is stored, Gmail is more than able to decypher it so it would someone that owned one of their (related to email) boxes.

    13. Re:A concrete example for Gmail by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "But this gets back to the other problem of accesibility. I like being able to check my email from home, work, or anywhere."

      Then you could have a fixed-IP xDSL connection and manage you own mail server/webmail, not that it is such a "geeky" task.

    14. Re:A concrete example for Gmail by shanen · · Score: 1

      Basically if you agree to use SMTP you are accepting that the email will be transmitted in the clear. Most people live with that because they don't even think about it. It sort of falls under the imaginary projection: "It's illegal to look at my snail mail, so my email must be safe." Whatever the legal status of email, it's pretty clear that the neo-GOPs do not feel that way about our personal information, which is where it connects to the original topic in terms of designing software so that it does not intrude on your privacy. Actually, I assume that the NSA is routinely copying all of my email, just on principle.

      However, and even though I have *NOTHING* to hide (that I know about), I'm still unhappy with the idea of Gmail retaining long-term copies of all of it. I trust Google more than most companies, but not *THAT* much.

      [And *NO* I still do not want to hop over to help with meta-moderation and *YES* I do want /. to stop asking me about it. The system is already wasting quite enough of my time, thank you.]

      --
      Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
    15. Re:A concrete example for Gmail by WarJolt · · Score: 1

      Btw, Google does data mining across all products.

      You could publish a public key and have all senders encrypt their e-mail. I've had to do this using PGP for some sensitive e-mail communication. You can still use gmail servers, but you'd either have to decrypt the e-mail yourself or use a program that does it for you automatically.

      If you're worried about private information then encrypt it. As long as you're sending e-mail without encryption your data in unsafe. Too bad most websites don't have a checkbox that says "send me encrypted e-mails." That would be cool. Maybe in e-mail 2.0.

      I think the only way you could get encrypted e-mails in widespread use is build encryption into the protocol layer.

    16. Re:A concrete example for Gmail by rtb61 · · Score: 1
      You just don't get it. Privacy is not hardware or software, it is a legislated requirement the the general public via government forces upon companies.

      This article is a growing sign of the times, the wild wild west of the internet is coming to an end. In terms of what a company will be allowed to know or keep records of, with regards to the general public will tighten up and basically be reduced to the absolute minimum required for order placement and account keeping processes.

      Privacy is not a myth, privacy will be a criminal punishment for those individuals and corporations that get caught abusing it. Expect future surprise government audits of corporate data bases.

      Of course it will not be the general populace pushing it, it will be the rich and greedy wanting to hide their secrets, it will be the celebrities trying to maintain their profit generating public image, it will be politicians trying to maintain the illusion of their integrity, it will be corporate executives trying to maintain the fantasy of the skills and abilities to confuse the investors and on the nice side, it will be parents trying to protect the future of their children.

      So make no mistake, those anal retentive companies who currently generate their profits by invading our privacy are basically, no to put a too fine point on it, fucked ;).

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    17. Re:A concrete example for Gmail by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "Basically if you agree to use SMTP you are accepting that the email will be transmitted in the clear."

      Which part of "that's what PGP/GPG (or S/MIME) is for" didn't you understand?

    18. Re:A concrete example for Gmail by shanen · · Score: 1

      I'm not saying it's impossible within SMTP. Or what is your intended point?

      --
      Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
    19. Re:A concrete example for Gmail by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "I'm not saying it's impossible within SMTP. Or what is your intended point?"

      My intended point is that by using the SMT protocol I'm not "basically [...] accepting that the email will be transmitted in the clear": there are known and not difficult to use protocols that are specifically designed to cypher point-to-point e-mail messages.

  7. Privacy by hyades1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You might want to pay attention to what Dr. Cavoukian says. I've followed her public statements for quite a while, and she understands clearly what we're on the verge of throwing away by being casual about our privacy.

    Just as an aside: You'll notice when you deal with privacy issues that many of the people who say, "If you aren't doing anything wrong, what are you trying to hide?" usually have pretty rigid limits on what parts of their own lives are on public display. Powerful organizations and people have tools to limit what you learn about them. Average folks have only their rights under the constitution. You won't have them for long if you forget that as a law-abiding citizen living your life in a free society, it's your right not to be bothered by people sticking their nose in your business.

    --
    I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
    1. Re:Privacy by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 4, Interesting

      So, perhaps you can explain to us all exactly why privacy is so important. The whole story, because I'm sure we've all seen bits and pieces before. What exactly is the risk in letting some organization know everything about everyone? Would the same risk exist if everybody knew everything about everyone? Is the only organization we need to be afraid of the government, or are there others? What are the different kinds of information we need to be concerned about, and what are their relative values? If you could gain a hundred dollars by it, what would you be willing to give up? A million dollars? Your living expenses covered for the rest of your life? What information would you never want to give up, no matter what the reward? Does it depend in any way on societal taboos? If so, isn't the real problem the taboos, not the availability of information? Wouldn't the taboos disappear once we knew, for example, how many people really had visited porn sites? If you did something illegal and the government knew, a malicious government could arrest you for it. A malicious government could also arrest you even if you had never done anything illegal. So what does it matter what the government knows? Etc.

      --
      Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
    2. Re:Privacy by ricklow · · Score: 1

      Because privacy protects you from abuse by people in positions of power. Pure and simple.

      --
      "Oh God help us. We're in the hands of engineers."
    3. Re:Privacy by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 1

      No, privacy protects people in power from abuse by you. The people in power already have access to the things you're trying to keep private, and the things your neighbour is trying to keep private. They are holding all the cards already, and trying to keep you from getting your hands on them.

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    4. Re:Privacy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      So, perhaps you can explain to us all exactly why privacy is so important. The whole story, because I'm sure we've all seen bits and pieces before. What exactly is the risk in letting some organization know everything about everyone? Would the same risk exist if everybody knew everything about everyone? Is the only organization we need to be afraid of the government, or are there others? What are the different kinds of information we need to be concerned about, and what are their relative values? If you could gain a hundred dollars by it, what would you be willing to give up? A million dollars? Your living expenses covered for the rest of your life? What information would you never want to give up, no matter what the reward? Does it depend in any way on societal taboos? If so, isn't the real problem the taboos, not the availability of information? Wouldn't the taboos disappear once we knew, for example, how many people really had visited porn sites? If you did something illegal and the government knew, a malicious government could arrest you for it. A malicious government could also arrest you even if you had never done anything illegal. So what does it matter what the government knows? Etc.

      I'm very sorry. I didn't get the notification that I was to be your private tutor for the month.

      What the hell do you think you're doing asking questions like that?

      Get your lazy ass on Google and come to class prepared the next time.

      Hint: if privacy means so little to you, please send me large, high-res photos of you, your sister and your mother buck naked in a three-way. Please append a notarized, sworn statement that I may use or publish them in any way I so desire, with no recourse by you and yours for any harm, embarrassment or other liability. At that time, you will have passed the quiz on what privacy means.

    5. Re:Privacy by hyades1 · · Score: 1

      Forgive the somewhat scattered nature of this post. I'm REALLY pressed for time, and it's difficult to present a complex subject in simple terms without totally losing the point.

      The problem is not with your facts but with their context. For one thing, we used to be guaranteed a level of anonymity by raw numbers. Technological advances are taking that away, but we still base our concept of what total lack of privacy would mean on our current situation. We still enjoy a level of protection we don't appreciate or value, and there are uses for all that information we casually dismiss that we haven't even dreamed of yet. Something simple: An RFID chip in your shopping basket can tell marketing specialists exactly where you spend time, and possession of all your personal information can rapidly reduce you to the status of prey. If you're too poor to afford the things you spend time looking at.....watch those lottery opportunities start appearing under your nose. That's a simple, non-threatening example. What will the situation be in 20 years, once you've given away your own right to privacy, and your children's, too? Do you really believe you can guard yourself against manipulation when it's entirely possible the manipulators will have a pretty good minute-by-minute picture of what you're actually feeling? Check out current published research on MRI scanning as an infallible lie detector. It works.

      There's another problem, too. If data had equal value to all parties, you might be right. That's not the case, though. For example, a database management company can assemble lots of worthless little bits of information into a complete portrait of "You As A Shopper", "You As A Voter", etc. Then they can sell that information to people who are intent on manipulating you by means of marketing campaigns directed at the pre-teen kids they know you have.

      Another example: I know you're a bit sloppy about taking home office supplies. What's that information worth? If your boss is one of those people who see things in black and white, it's potentially pretty valuable. If I want your job, it's pretty much priceless. If your boss is a live-and-let-live type, the information is probably worthless.

          And by the way, some of the things you denigrate as mere "societal taboos" are actually fundamental social lubricants that allow us to live together without killing each other. In socio-biological terms, we're what some call a "tournament species". Check out the ramifications with respect to some of the "taboos" you regard as disposable. They aren't disposable, and we won't be taboo-free any time soon.

      You question what information a person would surrender for millions of dollars. That's nonsense. Nobody would ever offer that. They'd simply find a way to steal it, then bribe,sorry, "lobby" elected officials to make that theft legal. For that matter, what did you get paid for supplying your postal code (zip code to Americans) the last time a WalMart cashier asked you for it? Nothing. You just became an unpaid part of a WalMart marketing survey. Thank you for your support. Your check is NOT in the mail.

      I also have to confess to being old-fashioned in some ways. Stupid. Out-of-touch. A dinosaur, even. In some important respects, you see, I'm not for sale. Not at any price.

      Thanks for your attention.

      --
      I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
  8. if you are bored.... by ninjapiratemonky · · Score: 0, Troll

    There is a webcam of the place up at http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/office/webcam-streaming.html with whom I can only assume is the sysadmin staring at some machines :P Also, the office number is 1-519-888-4567 x 33870 (according to http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/about/ )

  9. Hey! Me too! by denzacar · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I thought that there was going to be some talk about MicroSoft's, Adobe's and others techniques for acquiring and maintaining market share...
    You know... all those copies of Windowses and Offices and Photoshops and etc...
    Being so easily distributed and pirated that I am yet to see a user with a licensed Windows copy. Or a legal copy of Photoshop...

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  10. About Having Nothing to Hide by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Remember, if you have nothing to hide, take off all your clothes!

    --
    Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
    1. Re:About Having Nothing to Hide by krischik · · Score: 1

      Indeed. Nothing to hide /= nothing illegal.

      Martin

    2. Re:About Having Nothing to Hide by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 1

      Let us eat and drink and be merry, for tomorrow, they might make it illegal. ...

      And don't think I'm kidding. I'm told that in Belarus, people have been arrested for smiling.

      --
      Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
    3. Re:About Having Nothing to Hide by Plutonite · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm aware you're on the pro-privacy side, but it should not have to come to this. We DO have nothing to hide, some of us, yet the sanctity of our privacy should not be violated by anybody all the same. Even if we feel comfortable revealing something (information, body parts..etc) the revealing should still be a matter of our choice, done with our permission and with our knowledge. Why should I be compelled to do something that I have no interest in doing? Because you are asking me to? Who gives you authority over me? There are nudists who are perfectly convinced they have nothing to hide, and indeed they take it all off. But not for you. It's called freedom.

      Your rhetoric is un-nice.

    4. Re:About Having Nothing to Hide by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 1

      Just so you get the right picture, I am a naturist, but I do wear clothes where others can see me, because I not wish to needlessly upset them. As for privacy, I don't know where I stand. I'm all but certain that privacy is important, but I haven't yet seen a convincing argument as to the why.

      --
      Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
    5. Re:About Having Nothing to Hide by Plutonite · · Score: 1

      You were correctly modded interesting, then.

      I will not argue with you about your instinctive inclinations - if you do not feel the non-learned instinct most people have for protecting their reproductive organs with clothing at most times, and particularly in front of other people, then there is little in the way of argument that will convince you. The idea that those who do have these feelings are "hiding something" is correct here. They are in this case "hiding" something which society in general agrees they should be hiding.

      Why is it wrong to be hiding something? More importantly, do you not see the basic freedom involved in the ABILITY to hide something that is in your possession alone from others? The reason why you may hide it is irrelevant. It is your simple freedom of action (or inaction, where the activity is to reveal) in relation to things that you OWN, that is important. And if you don't understand that, then I will force you to keep your clothes on at all times inside your own house until you get it.

    6. Re:About Having Nothing to Hide by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What I hide has more to do with the behavior of the people I'm hiding it from than my own behavior. For example, I don't give out my cell number to people I suspect won't use it with respect. When a day laborer doing construction at my apartment complex engaged me in conversation and started asking questions that would have revealed my apartment as an extremely profitable burglarly target, I lied to him. Previously I had a boss whom I lied to about what I did on weekends, for the sake of preserving peace between us. (I often worked weekends; he told me, and honestly believed, that I could do whatever I wanted with my weekends without incurring his resentment, but he was wrong -- when I took a weekend off, his reaction depended very much on what I did.)

      So, to sum up, there would be nothing wrong with everybody knowing everything about me if I trusted them to use that information justly and wisely, just as I would be happy to have no lock on my door if there were no one in the world except my close friends.

    7. Re:About Having Nothing to Hide by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 1

      Now that makes a whole lot of sense. They, whoever they are, cannot abuse what they don't have. Don't have your phone number? Can't call you. Etc.

      --
      Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
    8. Re:About Having Nothing to Hide by turbidostato · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "I haven't yet seen a convincing argument as to the why."

      That's because there's no argument to give. Privacy is the naturale state of things: you usually don't know anything about me. Then it is the one that breaks such a 'statu quo' the one that needs to convincingly argument about their intentions. I need no other "convincing argument" for my privacy than "such is my mood".

  11. databases are risks by erlehmann · · Score: 2, Informative

    somehow it's simple: when government or bigbiz collects information about you, this information is stored in databases. from these information, conclusions are drawn. the simplest thing is that a health insurance won't accept you b/c you are genetically inferior. but, speaking of government, one german citizen was abducted by the CIA [1], another man was wrongfully imprisoned in guantanamo for 5 years [2].

    this happened due to some entries in some databases about them hanging around with the wrong people.

    [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_El-Masri
    [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murat_Kurnaz

  12. unbelievable... by cosmocain · · Score: 1

    ...but my copy of xp is licensed! imagine, i actually paid for it (okay, not myself but my employer).

    1. Re:unbelievable... by denzacar · · Score: 0

      Well... I am entitled (as are my colleagues) to a student-licensed copy of XP Pro.

      About 1 in 5 students knows about that, and about 10% would bother themselves to bring an empty CD to our sysadmin.

      Many don't even bother to get their free licensed copies of MS Visual Studio (which we use in our C++ and other programming classes) - it is simpler to use the pirated copy.

      --
      Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    2. Re:unbelievable... by cosmocain · · Score: 2, Insightful

      it is simpler to use the pirated copy. actually, it is - you don't have to activate anything, no personal data/information is transmitted or anything else of the downsides of legal copies. but is guess, we're getting near the -1, offtopic moderation ;)
  13. Trivia... by mangledspine · · Score: 1

    Dr. Ann Cavoukian is Raffi Cavoukian's sister. Yes, that's right - that Canadian's children entertainer. :-)

  14. Video? by BenoitRen · · Score: 1

    Text or it didn't happen.

  15. Re:Privacy - two points here by Bearhouse · · Score: 1

    C'mon - the same tired rehash with people getting modded 'interesting' for saying one of either...

    1. If you're not guilty, you've nothing to hide, think of the children, terrorists, blah, blah...

    -OR-

    2. The Govt. or others, (normally Google), should not have the right to know *everything* about you, rant, rave, loss of civil liberties...

    Surely it's rather more nuanced than that? I've got 'nothing to hide', but I'm not about to publish my e-mail here, any more than I am about to leave my car in the street with the keys in it. As always, the lawmakers lag behind technology, so it's up to us to act responsibly - both as custodians of information, and citizens. Don't capture and store more personal information than you really need, and don't tolerate others doing it either.

  16. Re:Privacy - two points here by --daz-- · · Score: 1

    It boils down to this: AT THIS POINT IN TIME, it's not quite so bad. If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to fear.

    However, there WILL COME A TIME when the definition of 'WRONG' changes and suddenly you're rounded up for being in the 'WRONG' category due to all the evidence they have against you in the myriad of databases they have on you.

    Cases in point:
    - Supporters of the Tzar during the Octoberist revolution, dissenters and non-party members in Soviet Russia
    - Jews, Catholics, Gays, and others in Nazi Germany when they decided these many in these groups were enemies of the state

  17. Small Correction by sdt · · Score: 2, Informative

    She's not Canada's privacy commissioner, she's Ontario's (a province of Canada) Information and Privacy Commissioner.

    1. Re:Small Correction by dadragon · · Score: 1

      You say that as if people from Ontario can tell the difference.

      --
      God save our Queen, and Heaven bless The Maple Leaf Forever!
  18. The sad truth is that you wouldn't like the result by CFD339 · · Score: 1

    As a matter of practice, you store a key to the data on the user's machine but not the data itself. You also use and password or something so that if the user looses the key or logs in from another PC that key can be replaced. If you store the real user data in the local machine (say in a cookie for web apps) than the loss of the cookie means the application breaks for that user. User environments are not reliability enough for this to be acceptable.

    --
    The problem with quotes on the internet, is that nobody bothers to check their veracity. -- Abraham Lincoln
  19. Re:The sad truth is that you wouldn't like the res by shanen · · Score: 1

    What result are you talking about that you think I would not like? The premise was that my personal data should be stored locally. This used to be the default case. A 100 years ago, almost all of my personal data could only be obtained by asking me, since almost all records of my personal data were stored in my head. That's why the prohibition against involuntary self-incrimination was so important... If you have some argument against the Fifth Amendment, I'm curious what it might be--and I have a few highly personal and highly objectionable questions that I bet you don't want to answer.

    The question of backup is a completely *DIFFERENT* aspect of software privacy. There are a number of possibilities that still consider privacy. For example, you could divide the files into multiple pieces with one of the encodings such that some number of pieces need to be collected before the decryption is possible, though the most common solution is to trust one entity to hold all of the backup. However, in either of those cases you can still encrypt the data that is being backed up and keep the decryption key locally or in a trusted escrow system.

    --
    Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
  20. Difference between rule 1 and rule 2 in this case. by CFD339 · · Score: 1

    Rule 1: Don't collect any personal data you don't need for the operation of the program or web site.
    Rule 2: For information you DO collect, do not trust the end user not to loose it.

    Your points primarily relate to rule 1 -- That is, my application should not be storing any data not directly needed for its operation. I don't collection ss# because there is no need. I don't store credit card numbers because there is no need. You can't have stolen from me what I do not store.

    On these points, I agree completely with you.

    My point is on that information I do need (in the case of my work, this involves cell phone numbers and email, often home address and telephone numbers as well) my users would be very upset if I did not store this on my end so that it was available to them without them having to re-enter it from any other PC or if they deleted local cookies.

    --
    The problem with quotes on the internet, is that nobody bothers to check their veracity. -- Abraham Lincoln
  21. Re:Difference between rule 1 and rule 2 in this ca by shanen · · Score: 1

    Your thinking seems to be muddled. Protecting the security of information (as for backup services) or sharing information (via networks) do *NOT* require knowing what that information is. Google (or other companies) could support backup and information sharing services of personal information without ever having actual access to the information in question.

    They [again referring to corporations and governments] don't want to do that because it is more convenient for them to collect, look at, exploit, and (in a worst case) even release your personal information. My original point was that the only real defense of privacy would be if we hold and control our own personal information, which could potentially take us back to the Bill of Rights. Especially in the case of a government, if the government wants access to our personal information, they should have to show why. As it stands now, the government can simply buy most of our personal data directly from the companies that 'own' it.

    --
    Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
  22. Sure, but that's not what TFA is about. by CFD339 · · Score: 1

    TFA is about writing code that treats the data it uses securely. We're not talking about having off-site backups through the internet necessarily. Nobody (surely not me) is saying you should back up your data to an internet site that stores it in a way they can see it. I'm talking about the data you need for the application to work properly -- in the case of an online application. I'm saying you can't rely on the user to store it. You have to store it in your application. Yes, you should do so in a secure way, but you have to be able to read it so that you can use it to do whatever your application does. If your application doesn't need it, you shouldn't be storing it at all.

    --
    The problem with quotes on the internet, is that nobody bothers to check their veracity. -- Abraham Lincoln
  23. thank you by AlgorithMan · · Score: 1

    I, for one, just want to say: thank you for that link
    I don't think I'd have found it without that article, but I'm very interested. I'm downloading it right now (via torrent)

    this is one of the rare occasions, when reading a /. article was really useful for me... now mod me offtopic :-)

    --
    The MAFIAA is a bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first up against the wall when the revolution comes
  24. Re:graphs of the servers by khellendros1984 · · Score: 1

    *They're* over *there* sitting in *their* chairs. Thank you.

    --
    It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
  25. Typo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The slide labeled
    "More Security Per Bit"
    At the bottom right should be 512.

  26. Re:Privacy - two points here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    However, there WILL COME A TIME when the definition of 'WRONG' changes and suddenly you're rounded up for being in the 'WRONG' category due to all the evidence they have against you in the myriad of databases they have on you.

    Cases in point:
    - Supporters of the Tzar during the Octoberist revolution, dissenters and non-party members in Soviet Russia
    - Jews, Catholics, Gays, and others in Nazi Germany when they decided these many in these groups were enemies of the state

    C'mon -- that's ancient history.

    - Martin Luther King

    - Daniel Ellsberg

    - United Farm Workers' Union

    - the Quakers

    - people in the Catholic Worker movement

    - all the people J. Edgar Transvestite held under the whip like sheep with his dossiers

    - probably Mother Theresa

    - probably you already

    - certainly me for my activities in the 60s, 70s and 80s

  27. Down with privacy? by hdon · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm glad some people are being honest and asking questions. Kudos to RAMMS+EIN.

    Claiming that privacy's significance is fundamentally rooted in philosophical axioms specifically about privacy are all fine and well, but for those of us who live for more important things in life, something a bit more substantial is required.

    IMHO, the significance of privacy breaks down into four issues, all derived from axiomatic benevolence (a very popular axiom):

    1) Societal taboos: Society is irrational. Most people are not bright thinkers, and have a great deal of difficulty with the abstract logic required to view all aspects of life from an objective point of view (no, objective POV does not mean mean or median point of view; FOX news is not "fair and balanced.") If we lived in a society which had a strong rational majority, this point would be rendered pretty irrelevant. Take the relatively recent acceptance of homosexuality by society: if society were largely rational, then pre-existing societal taboos would not be a compelling reason to protect people's privacy. However, since social revolutions don't occur over night, the only way to let such people live in peace is to give them a degree of privacy within which to live. If we took away their privacy now, many people might simply choose to wholly deny their secret inclinations, and no social revolution would ever occur.

    2) Omniscience versus state secrets: Are the majority of surveillance advocates actually suggesting we divulge all state secrets? Personally, I'm in favor of an entirely transparent government. However if this is not part of the no-privacy-deal, get ready for a kick in the nuts: The power to erase privacy is an awesomely frightening power that makes conspiracy theories start to look like real possibilities. If you're used to summarily disregarding conspiracy theorists as raving madmen, and you don't think privacy is important, get ready to change your tune. Once the kind of concentrated surveillance power the Bush administration dreams of actually exists, there ceases to be a practical limit domestic black ops. The most convoluted of conspiracy theories will no longer be relegated to novels, it will really be able to happen. (I'm not accusing the government of doing anything like this, but the government isn't a single person. Resist the inclination to personify organizations; they aren't that simple. A single rogue government agent with sufficient power would be all that's needed.)

    3) Revolution: Strongly related to the first two points is something that has already been demonstrated (and demonstrated against) in our own country. Giving the government or the public access to everything you read is not completely unlike giving them access to everything you think. There are people in our country, including many of middle-eastern descent, who have a real, credible fear of purchasing certain books with a credit card, or checking them out at a library. Profiling, no matter how distasteful, is real, and its role in law enforcement is not going to go away. Beside that, there is the issue of trial in the court of public opinion: People should not have to face ridicule or discriminatory treatment for entertaining or studying currently-unfavorable ideas. Our culture would be locked into the status quo, with no opportunity for radical improvement.

    4) Law enforcement: Although this point is largely predicated upon the potential for a fully pervasive surveillance system, it's still an important consideration. A public policy dismantling any notions of personal privacy does not automatically compel individuals to actually comply to the point of volunteering the most private details of their lives. Every person with a vibrator or porno collection to hide would be highly suspect in a community where everyone let the cops rummage through their homes on a whim. This is the same reason I use encryption to communicate with friends and colleagues, and the same reason that I don't allo

    1. Re:Down with privacy? by Have+Brain+Will+Rent · · Score: 1

      1) Societal taboos: Society is irrational. Most people are not bright thinkers...

      Stop right there. It's not necessary for society to be irrational for there to be a danger, because individuals are irrational. I'd rather not have any nutbar, who decides to take a dislike to me, have unfettered access to personal details such as my schedule and movements.

      --
      The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny - Aesop