Microsoft Announces New 360 Bundle Packs

Starting at the end of this month, you'll be able to get a little more for your dollar when buying a new Xbox 360. Gamasutra is reporting that Micrsoft has unveiled bundle pack versions of the Elite and standard consoles. The $449.99 Xbox 360 Elite and the standard $349.99 Xbox will now both come with packed-in game titles: Forza Motorsport 2 and Marvel Ultimate Alliance. "Microsoft says both bundles will be available by the end of October and throughout the holidays. The retail packaging bears the company's new model-specific slogans, with the Elite tagged 'Go Big', and the standard 'Go Pro'. On October 3rd, various now-deleted online retail listings showed the existence of a third pack, the $279.99 'Arcade' bundle, which bore all similar markings as the new models, and was tagged 'Go Play' ... As yet, Microsoft has not officially announced the bundle, but all signs point to its imminent arrival."

Comments

HALO 3

[KGIII]

I bet if they packed Halo 3 in with it (and of course charged a slightly higher price) they'd unload a pile of systems at a decent enough profit. I realize that the game is still selling just fine all on its own but it would convince me to pick up an extra XBox to have when my hardware fails and the added benefit of a low-cost Halo 3 would be what made me pick it up instead of the rather lame games they have listed.

Re:HALO 3

[n0dna]

Like this one?

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xbox360halo3console/default.htm

Re:HALO 3

[KGIII]

Nah, mine hasn't failed but having a backup handy is always good in my opinion. Much in the same way I clone and backup my PCs regularly I often will buy multiple pieces of hardware (after the initial price has gone down) so that I can hopefully get more use out of the other things I buy for them later. It may be that I am a rarity but I've had no problems with my Xbox. After going through two PS2's quite rapidly I've given up all Sony products so the only console I play at all these days is Xbox.

Re:HALO 3

[jtroutman]

You should go back and read the items included in the package you linked to; Halo 3 isn't included with it.

Re:HALO 3

[n0dna]

Yup, fucked that up, didn't I?

Re:HALO 3

[EasyT]

I bet if they packed Halo 3 in with it (and of course charged a slightly higher price) they'd unload a pile of systems at a decent enough profit.

While I share your opinion that their currently bundled games themselves aren't very compelling, but I doubt we'll see a Halo 3 pack-in because I suspect Microsoft isn't terribly worried about moving systems this Christmas season. Wii's are still seeing supply fall short of demand and PS3 systems have fewer games at a higher price. And Halo 3 (and Mass Effect and other soon-to-be-released titles) will move plenty of systems even being sold separately. The system is starting to move under its own momentum.

By NOT packing in Halo 3, they'll still sell lots of units and they'll additionally rake in tons of cash by selling Halo 3 separately. And making loads of cash and perhaps finally showing that Microsoft's game division is profitable sounds like a pretty good strategy.

Just my uninformed 2 cents.

Re:HALO 3

[KGIII]

According to that link Halo 3 is not included. "Halo 3 game not included--sold separately" Nice idea though and thanks for the link.

Re:HALO 3

[KGIII]

It is an interesting way to look at it. Unfortunately I don't have any mod points or anything but thanks.

Re:HALO 3

[This_Is_My_Happening]

Why would you want a backup 360 in case yours fails? RROD problems are covered for 3 years now. Even if you bought a launch console in 2005 you would still be protected for another year at least.

Re:HALO 3

[News for nerds]

Their gaming division needs every cent to get out of the red.
If you bundle it with Halo 3 those who purchase such packs won't buy a copy of Halo 3. A simple math. What they want people buy is this overpriced pack with bargain-bin games + Halo 3.

Re:HALO 3

[EvilIdler]

Getting the replacement can take up to two months.
What will you do while it's off to be "repaired"?
The safest is to live in a cave, like I do. No overheating yet :)

Re:HALO 3

[ToasterMonkey]

You backup your PC, you don't buy a backup PC just in case your primary one fails. You should have just bought a better PC to begin with.

Re:HALO 3

[KGIII]

Yes I do as well as keeping old ones so that I can have extras should hardware fail which, inevitably, it will regardless of the quality.

Re:HALO 3

[juanitoescarcha]

There is a Xbox 360 with Halo 3 currently on sale in Mexico (http://www.gameplanet.com/gdetalles.php?pd=882224509350) it costs 6190 MXP (about 570 USD).

Re:HALO 3

[ookaze]

While I share your opinion that their currently bundled games themselves aren't very compelling, but I doubt we'll see a Halo 3 pack-in because I suspect Microsoft isn't terribly worried about moving systems this Christmas season. In the USA, their biggest and only relevant market, perhaps that's true. But they must be really desperate in Europe, as some of the FIGS (France, Italy, Germany, Spain, aka 4 of the big 5) countries have an official Halo 3 bundle already. And yes, it retails for less than the console + Halo 3 bought separately.
I don't know about UK, which doesn't seem to need it as their behaviour mimics the USA.

And Halo 3 (and Mass Effect and other soon-to-be-released titles) will move plenty of systems even being sold separately. The system is starting to move under its own momentum. We'll see, but I doubt that. Already, in UK, it seems like what I believe was true : most people wanting Halo 3 already had a XB360, as the bump in sales accounted for less than 2 % of the installed base in the week of release, while the game sold to 1/3rd of the installed base the same week.
Also, I don't understand the price cut right before the release of your flagship title. That's very stupid to do, unless you think your flagship title is not enough to send sales upward. So now, instead of 2 big momentum, they are left with one.

By NOT packing in Halo 3, they'll still sell lots of units and they'll additionally rake in tons of cash by selling Halo 3 separately. And making loads of cash and perhaps finally showing that Microsoft's game division is profitable sounds like a pretty good strategy. So Europe is lost for that strategy then. Let's see how they fare in NPD of September.
If most people that bought Halo 3 didn't have a XB360 already, that means a lot of the Halo 3 fans have bought a XB360 now. So to say most of the Halo 3 fans didn't have a XBox 360, I think we can say at least 10 % of the current install base must show up. That would mean 90 % of Halo 3 fans already had a XB360.
Well, that would mean last month's 280k XB360 + at least 650k XBox 360 sold in September ( IIRC XB360 has more than 6.5M installed base in the USA alone).
So the XB360 should sell nearly 1 M console in September. Somehow, I doubt it did.

Re:HALO 3

[twistedsymphony]

I don't know where you're getting your figures but I haven't seen any stats regarding console sales sales figures post Halo 3 with the exception of Australia... which saw a 55% increase in hardware sales for the week it went on sale and September saw a 158% increase in sales over august in the same region http://www.itwire.com/content/view/14759/532/

So I'd say that both the price drop AND Halo 3 are quite a substantial catalyst for the 360. taking it a step further and bundling two games with the already reduced price hardware (and I should note that Forza 2 is still a full priced game, and a AAA 1st party franchise no less) will probably push sales even further for them.

Re:HALO 3

[twistedsymphony]

except that Forza 2 isn't a bargain bin game... it's on of the 360's top sellers and still fetches full price at retail. http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Forza-Motorsport-2/dp/B000FRVCAA/?qid=1191942433

Re:HALO 3

[Vanye1]

I would definitely be picking it up. I enjoyed the first two games, and my stepson is enjoying the heck out of it at a friends house. I think that this would be worth my money.

Baffled

[wizzard2k]

I'm still baffled why the 360 Halo Edition does not come bundled with the game.

Re:Baffled

[LordNimon]

It's because there are three different versions of Halo 3, and so by not bundling the game, the customer can choose which version of Halo 3 he wants.

Re:Baffled

[Hamster Lover]

Yeah, that's a great reason not to include Halo in the package. No offense, but do you realize how silly that sounds?

The real reason is obvious: You can't charge $60 for the game if you bundle it with the system, can you?

Re:Baffled

[LordNimon]

I don't think it sounds silly at all. Stores that sell the Xbox 360 also sell Halo 3. There's no reason why a person can't pick up both at the same time, and at that time you can choose which version of Halo 3 you want.

Did they fix their console yet?

[SignupRequired]

Seriously, it has a known, fatal design flaw. Why doesn't anybody but me see how awful this is? You fix that, and give me some way to guarantee that I will receive a fixed version of the console, and maybe I'll consider buying. Until then, it'd be pretty fucking stupid to spend hundreds of dollars on something that might become a paperweight after a month. I just don't get why MS didn't jump all over this and fix it immediately and issue a big press release about how awesome they were and so on.

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[jtroutman]

Seriously, it has a known, fatal design flaw.

Well, there are two things here. First, "fatal design flaws" rarely seem to stop people from purchasing electronics. As an example, see the iPhone. Secondly, what is the known, fatal design flaw anyway? I know my brother's 360 locked up a couple of days after he bought it, but he got it the first day they came out and they shipped him a replacement immediately. Mine has never so much as hiccuped, maybe I'm just lucky.

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[NumbDr9]

Let me answer your question with another question. After Microsoft announces a "fixed" version and puts the official seal of non-brickedness on their consoles, what happens to all the "pre-fixed" consoles that are still sitting on the shelves or in warehouses?

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[sscroggins]

I'm still amazed that so many people have had problems. We have 2 systems in our home, 1 from release day and the other from the Christmas right after release. Both run quite a bit and neither has had any overheating issues. Of course, we placed the brick away from the console itself and have plenty of space around the unit itself. We let them have air and they keep breathing.

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[Damvan]

Off topic and all that, but I am curious what the "fatal design flaw" is on the iPhone?

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[jtroutman]

Just my opinion, but I'd say code that's executable from the stack and internal code addresses that aren't randomized at boot time qualify, especially since those can't be fixed through patches. That's what lead to the first hack and could spell more problems.

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[arsheive]

Ostensibly (and I don't have anything to back this up like a statement from MS) these new releases contain the awaited "Falcon Board" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360#Xbox_360_Falcon) that will fix the "fatal design flaw" with a new processor, heat sink, etc.

That flaw being some combination of the "red ring of death" and the fact that the board eventually warps due to the unit overheating so often.

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[Osty]

Secondly, what is the known, fatal design flaw anyway? I know my brother's 360 locked up a couple of days after he bought it, but he got it the first day they came out and they shipped him a replacement immediately. Mine has never so much as hiccuped, maybe I'm just lucky.

It depends on when you bought your console, and when it failed.

• There was a bad batch of power supplies with the launch consoles, which is most likely what caused your brother's to fail. In those cases they should've just sent along a new power supply, though it wouldn't surprise me if they just did a straight console replacement instead.
• More consoles suffered from heat-related issues, especially with the GPU. Over a fair amount of time and use, the console would get hot enough and cycle enough that the solder holding down the GPU (or sometimes the memory chips) would lift. The infamous towel trick works on such consoles, because intentionally overheating the console may cause the solder joints to expand enough to make a connection. This problem was addressed earlier this summer with a more efficient heatsink for the GPU, and when coupled with the new 65nm process CPUs (GPUs are still 90nm) overheating leading to solder lift should be a thing of the past.
• There has been some amount of "random" failures. For example, when my first console died from the GPU solder lift fault, it was replaced with a unit that had a bad DVD drive. After about a week with the new console after replacement, the DVD drive simply refused to spin disks (insert a disk, notice the orientation, close the drive, get an error that the console can't read the disk, open the tray and notice that the orientation of the disk has not changed). That was just a fluke, and truly falls into the standard ~1-3% acceptable failure rate for consumer electronics.
• Finally, there's been plenty of user error pawned off as system faults. For example, the notorious DVD-eating nature of the Xbox 360 is due in most part to idiots tilting the console while a disk is spinning. Yes, I know it's fun to watch the ring of light re-orient itself on the fly, but is it worth risking the wrath of physics of a spinning disk?

With price cuts, 65nm CPUs, and updated GPU heatsinks in consoles for sale now, the Xbox 360 has never been a better buy. When you include the 3-year warranty for Red Ring of Death issues (any failure that would cause a "three red lights" error, which would not include DVD-ROM failure), I wouldn't worry at all about buying a 360 right now. It's those of us who purchased at launch time that got screwed (I'm on my 2nd replacement console, and bought a backup Core system so that I could play Forza 2 at launch while my main console was in the process of being replaced the second time).

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[Blakey Rat]

1) Most Xboxes run just fine. People don't go online and post "my Xbox 360 is still working today!"
2) It's been fixed for months, in any case.

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[Damvan]

Thanks for the source, I was not aware of this flaw.

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[H0NGK0NGPH00EY]

Hey everybody. Just wanted to let you all know that my Xbox 360 is still working today!

Of course, I had to exchange my copy of Halo 3 due to the dreaded disc read error... But now even that is still working today. Just an FYI.

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[king-manic]

. Secondly, what is the known, fatal design flaw anyway?/i>

A number of things
1- cheap solder on the motherboard which is prone to crack and break
2- screw placements that cause damage if the board moves
3- A motherboard that warps when heated just right and if the solder softens
4- insufficient cooling
5- too much heat generation from CPU/GPU

Added together it makes it likely that the motherboard will warp and break the board. Thats what the red ring of death is.

The extended 3 warranty is only this problem. Supposedly the next CPU version will use 45nm technology to reduce heat generation nd will stop cheaping out on solder. Initially the "replacement" 360's were refurbished. Thus you're getting someone else machine that crapped out and just has a few new parts in it. I'm not sure what the status of that is. I have a friend on his 3rd 360 all of my friends have had to replace their once and there is a story of a guy who had 8 boxes in two different house with many attempt to prevent overheating on slashdot a while ago too. It might be more common with hardcore gamers who use their machine more often.

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[king-manic]

1) Most Xboxes run just fine. People don't go online and post "my Xbox 360 is still working today!"
2) It's been fixed for months, in any case.

There is hard data that 360's fail at a much greater rate then any other console or even any other non economy home electronic device. So no it's not just a few people. If you look for some data some distributors noted a ~30% exchange rate.

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[jtroutman]

Whoops, I linked to the wrong reference. Here's the actual exploit for the flaw.

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[tomhudson]

"That was just a fluke, and truly falls into the standard ~1-3% acceptable failure rate for consumer electronics."

WFT - 1 in every 34 consumer electronics devices failing is acceptable???

Imagine if the whole world worked that way. 1 in every 34 elevators failing, 1 in every 34 food items sold at stores being rotten, 1 in every 34 newspapers or books you buy filled with blank pages instead of news, 1 in every 34 flushes not "doing the job" ...

A 1% failure rate indicates a very poorly designed product, poorly executed, and with awful quality control processes, or one that is operating at the experimental limits of today's technology, like the space shuttle.

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[king-manic]

CPU version will use 45nm technology

Oops thats 65nm.

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[king-manic]

1 in every 34 elevators failing, 1 in every 34 food items sold at stores being rotten, 1 in every 34 newspapers or books you buy filled with blank pages instead of news, 1 in every 34 flushes not "doing the job" ...

If elevators were $300 then yeah 1/34 might be about right. Newpapers do indeed have a high rate of misprints, smeared ink and blank pages. 1/34 is not unlikely. Books too have smeared ink and blank pages and offset print. 1/34 books at elast. Depending on what you make 1% may be very good, terrible, or legally compromising. Car Breaks with a 1% fail rate would be a fiasco. A toilet plunger wiht a 1% fail rate would be okay.

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[Other Than That...]

There's not actually 'one' design flaw in the 360, as Microsoft states on their warranty faq page (towards the bottom), but one indicator for a multitude of possible problems. - Not sure if that should make you feel better.

I'm personally waiting for my 4th 360 from Microsoft, my first one was purchased on launch day. As of today, I have not paid one cent for the repairs or shipping, the only cost to me has been time without a 360, which you can also experience in larger measure by not buying one until "it's fixed".

My experience (3 broken consoles) isn't typical of people I know who have one, but I don't regret getting one. Plus I figure I get to play games for several uninterrupted months at a time while I wait for them to "fix it", and, eventually, I'll have one of the "fixed" ones.

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[pokerdad]

A 1% failure rate indicates a very poorly designed product, poorly executed, and with awful quality control processes

On the one hand, you are absolutely correct, but on the other hand, you clearly have no knowledge of the consumer electronic industry. It is pretty much standard pratice industry wide to give little or no QA on most electronics (it turns on? ship it). Basically companies have discovered that it is cheaper to let customers be their QA (I guess paying shipping is cheaper than hiring people; plus the added benefit that some customers will just give up and accept whatever the flaw is).

I think it goes without saying that all the companies doing this either don't know or don't care what it does to their brand image (then again, I remember when I used to work for one of these companies reassuring a co-worker that for ever customer that swore off our products there were plenty more who'd just sworn off our competitors)

So to sum up, yeah it sucks that this is how it is, but for many products you can't buy an alternative that has been QAed. (and with the way the world is, the only reason I think that all the other industries you mentioned tend to be good nearly all the time while electronics aren't is that the courts have largely let electronic manufacturers off the hook so long as they have a reasonable return policy, while say food producers shipping 3% rotten food would be in for a world of hurt in court)

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[tomhudson]

Newspapers USED to have a high rate of smeared ink, misprints, etc. Its a lot rarer nowadays, at least for big-city presses.

I haven't bought a book in years that has unslit pages (something that I used to see once in a while). Quality control has gone way up in most areas over the last decade.

Specifically, a 1 in 34 fail rate for consumer electronics, given the cost of handling returns, etc., IS a fiasco, unless its some cheapie $10 item that people are going to just throw away if it doesn't work.

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[geeknado]

Yeah, I'm on my third, but I know many people who play more regularly who're still on their first. My first was a launch console(not bought then, but apparently it'd been in a CostCo warehouse) and broke within 7 days-- ouch-- so it was taken back to the store, but my second made it most of a year. The replacement time was only about 2 weeks, and they sent me one of the new 'fixed' boxes rather than a refurb, so...Not that terrible an experience, presumably this latest one will last longer.

Hopefully, you'll get a new-new one as well...That seems to be their current pattern(along with a note informing you that they've done this rather than making you wait for the repairs).

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[tomhudson]

It would seem to me that it should be easy to build proper QA testing into every device. For example, the 4 brand new Seagate hard drives I've got sitting on my desk, all bad. There's no reason they couldn't have been automatically spun up for a minute before being shipped, and their smart status queried - they would have been found to be defective before being shipped, and they could have fixed the problem on the production floor, instead of continuing to produce junk that is going to end up costing money instead of generating profit.

Its not like you even need humans to do this - it can be automated fairly easily.

The cost savings would mean QA would be a profit center, not a money loser.

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[Gaerek]

Fatal design flaw? I've had my system since launch (read, almost 2 years now) and the only problem I had was when I first brought it home, it gave me a red ring error when I first started it up. Of course, it been in my car for a couple of hours in 20 degree weather. Once I gave it 30 minutes to warm up, it never gave me an issue. My brother also has a launch console, and lo and behold, no issues there either. As a matter of fact, of the half dozen or so people I personally know who own launch consoles, no one has ever had a problem. Ok, so that's not a very good sample, but let me give you a few suggestions, those of you who have had issues.

1. Why did you place the power brick right next to the fan on the back of the system? That's a good way to overheat everything.

2. Why did you tilt your system while it had a spinning disc in it?

3. Why did you put your system on the carpet where it could potentially cover up the vents?

4. Why did you place your system in an enclosed space where there wasn't enough ventilation?

5. Why did you not keep the vent areas around your system free of dust that could potentially block the ventilation?

I'm no expert or anything, but I would be willing to bet that a lot of systems crapped out, not do to manufacturer defects, but due to improper care. I'm sure there were some lemons out there, and I know that when the 360 first came out, the "bricking" issues seemed like they were everywhere, when in reality there were a few isolated incidents that happened to get publicized. I could be wrong, but I bet if these bricked 360s were properly cared for, there'd be much less of a problem now.

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[Jeff DeMaagd]

Consumer electronics generally have gotten cheaper over time though. A basic B&W TV used to cost about as much as a car did. I remember predictions when computers would cost less than $1000 new, and I laughed at that.

XBox360 is actually quite a high performance machine, I think to get the similar performance in a PC, you would be out several times the price.

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[Jeff DeMaagd]

How do you know that those drives weren't tested like that, and somehow got excessive shock while in transit?

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[ToasterMonkey]

My experience (3 broken consoles) isn't typical of people I know who have one, but I don't regret getting one. Plus I figure I get to play games for several uninterrupted months at a time while I wait for them to "fix it", and, eventually, I'll have one of the "fixed" ones. If ANYTHING in my house broke that often, to hell with the warranty, I'd buy a different brand. You seem to be taking the whole "glass is half full" thing a bit too far.

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[Jeff DeMaagd]

I really don't understand why anyone would tilt the console while in operation. I'm not even convinced that it's the primary cause of disk damage. If it's causing a lot of problems, then why aren't there a lot of Wii and PS3 owners complaining about the same thing? Those systems have a horizontal and vertical position too. When that explanation was given, I assumed it was the maker trying to blame the user.

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[tomhudson]

"How do you know that those drives weren't tested like that, and somehow got excessive shock while in transit?"

I don't, but it doesn't seem likely. After all, when modern drives are powered down, the heads are parked automatically. Even 15 years ago, you could drop a hard drive from a desk and no harm would come of it (I know because a friend of mine did that to his brand new $500 80 meg WD drive, and I told him not to worry, it wasn't like those "old 5-1/4 20 meg" drives).

The heads can't "crash" during shipping, unless they wre involved in some sort of train wreck or airplane crash or other "violent disassembly".

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[NotZed]

Is this microsoft-funded PR?

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[insanius]

i got my console day 1 and while it's loud, runs hot and occasionally freezes, it is hands down the best game system i have ever owned....and i've owned them all since the NES excluding the neogeo.

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[grumbel]

Your questions completly miss the point. The real question is: Why did Microsoft design the console that can't reliably work in the same environment as every other console in the last 20 years? The fault is at Microsoft for designing a piece of junk that just fails far to often, even when handled with care.

I am just sick and tiered of people blaming the users for faulty hardware, which at this point in time there really has been proven more then once.

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[king-manic]

XBox360 is actually quite a high performance machine, I think to get the similar performance in a PC, you would be out several times the price.

Not really. The 3 core PPC is a dumbed down version with a lot of the branch prediction hardware missing from the CPU. The memory bandwidth of all 3 machines are far greater then a normal PC with lower latency etc but it's not meant to be general purpose machine. and it has a lot less overhead from the OS. Your getting essentially a lower-mid range GPU with a highly specialized CPU. The graphic muscle is derived from the high memory bandwidth and some unique features in the GPU but a mid/upper range PC at the time of the 360'd release would have rivaled the machine in graphic muscle. Also the 480p/720p that most 360/ps3 games are, are generally lower then PC games. So you get more graphic muscle simply from pushing less pixels.

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[jollyreaper]

Seriously, it has a known, fatal design flaw. Why doesn't anybody but me see how awful this is? You fix that, and give me some way to guarantee that I will receive a fixed version of the console, and maybe I'll consider buying. Until then, it'd be pretty fucking stupid to spend hundreds of dollars on something that might become a paperweight after a month. I just don't get why MS didn't jump all over this and fix it immediately and issue a big press release about how awesome they were and so on. The ones manufactured after August are supposed to be perfectly fixed. I broke down and bought one last week, sheer curiosity. But alas! It looks like one of the games I bought to go with it is now bundled. At least I only paid $30 for it.

Of more importance, Microsoft has seriously got to take a look at increasing the size of the default hard drive. With all the video they want us to download from the Xbox Live media servers, there's no frickin' way 20gb is going to cut it, especially since they don't provide any mechanism for transferring purchased media to a PC or plug-in external hard drive. Movies on the 360 are rental only -- at $6 they're a little more expensive than Blockbuster and cheaper than the theater if you're considering a group of people going. With a nice-sized HDTV, a theater is pointless. Plus, you can download the movies in HD quality, cheaper than buying a dedicated HD DVD player. But they say you can buy TV shows for keeps, not just rental -- so where do you put them when you run out of space?

The whole xbox live thing is a better solution than conventional tee-vee and renting from video stores but they still need to put more work into it before it's more convenient than bittorrent and hooking a laptop up to the TV. Put a 500gb drive in the xbox, cut the rental price by half, and offer to let the user upgrade a movie to physical media that will be mailed to the house, all for roughly the same price as if they'd originally purchased it from the store, and they've really got something here.

One bit that's very nice, they have the comicon panel for Babylon 5 available as a free download. For those who might not know, there's a new direct-to-DVD B5 movie out now. Rather than being a cheap tie-in like Disney direct-to-DVD crap, the idea here is the studios are exploring the idea of bypassing network television and selling directly to the fans, DVD as primary market rather than afterthought. If enough demand is demonstrated, this could be a very good thing. Scifi tends to massively underperform on Neilsen ratings but do very, very well on DVD sales. Conventional television thinking is that the product is the commercial and the TV show is what you do to entice the public to watch commercials, disposable crap with no artistic merit. The unconventional thinking is that scifi fans are not persuaded by stupid ads, you will lose money trying to sell off the ads, but the fans will pay for the show and you can turn a handsome profit catering to that demand. Witness the resurrection of Firefly, if only for a movie, and the return of Family Guy, a show that fits in well with the scifi geek demographic.

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[king-manic]

Specifically, a 1 in 34 fail rate for consumer electronics, given the cost of handling returns, etc., IS a fiasco, unless its some cheapie $10 item that people are going to just throw away if it doesn't work.

There is no arguing that the 360'd 1 in 3 fail rate is horrible but 1% doesn't make the news as warranty replacements and exchanges capacity within the retail system can work with 1%. At 30% it gets silly and another system has to be worked out but if 1% of your goods fails within 1 year it's not too bad. Of course I'm just a armchair logistics accountant.

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[Grave]

* Wii's are much shorter and more stable in a vertical position, and come bundled with a stand for extra stability, not to mention have a safer disc retention system (slot vs. tray).
* The PS3 also uses a slot instead of a disc tray, but given the weight and style of the system, I suspect most owners lay the system flat.
* The disc tray in the slim PS2 has a clip for the disc, allowing it to stand up safely.

The 360 was designed to look nice (and is marketed as) standing up, but it is not very stable, and has a relatively loose tray. Something as simple as a door slamming in the house can cause enough vibration to make the disc wobble inside. This could be considered a system design flaw, but it is one that is very easily fixed by end users for the time being - lay the system flat at all times. Of all the people I have spoken to that had rings marked onto their discs, only a small handful said the system was lying down, and I'm not sure I believed them all. It's not unheard of for people to move their system while a disc is inside, even when powered on. Why they do it is beyond me, since it seems common sense not to.

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[AbRASiON]

The overheating issues are occuring on far far far more than 3% of units, I've seen results from several sources at least 5 forum polls at different sites, EB store employees tallying up a sold / return ratio, journolists (sp?) reporting how many have failed at their offices etc.

The chaps at UPS actually know what the Xbox is when returning it bwefore you return it, based on the box you bring it in with..... the failure rate is rumoured to be as high as 30% - I'd be very comfortable believing 15% for sure.

The 3 year warranty for the RROD is absoloutely FUCKING useless as far as I and several console gamers are concerned.
A>I don't want to be without my console for 2-6 weeks multiple times over the course of 3 years.
B>Secondly due to DRM you have to sign in to Xbox live to be able to play your downloaded Xbox games because they are signed to the hardware of your DEAD console see : http://brokenxblm.blogspot.com/
C>Why should I support a company releasing shit hardware, can't they get their act together, it's been 2 fucking years!
and finally and I believe by far most importantly,..
D>3 Years? big fucking deal, there's still gamers playing 5 year old PS2's, 8 year old PS1's, 10 year old N64's and older, sure some old hardware breaks down, I won't deny that but at least you have a chance,...... why should I or anyone else purchase a product which is actually LIKELY to break down, forcing me to have to buy a new one in 3.01 years time or 4 years etc?
No! I'm enjoying cheap Xbox 1 and PS2 games and I plan to keep enjoying them, I'd like to do the same with a 360, maybe pull it out in 4 or 5 years to play Gears of war etc,.....so in that case, I can't see waiting for a more reliable edition being a bad thing.

Also there's rumours there's a fixed model out, the die appears to be approximately 15% smaller, which doesn't correlate with 90nm to 65nm but no one knows for sure, so we're waiting for more info - but either way the thing is still bloody noisy.

Nope, I'm waiting for confirmation on forums like Xbox-scene.com that there's a more reliable one out there in the wild.

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[Rebelgecko]

...1 in every 34 elevators failing ...

The difference being, if an elevator fails, people can die. If your X-box 360 fails, Microsoft sends you a new one in the mail.

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[Osty]

The overheating issues are occuring on far far far more than 3% of units, I've seen results from several sources at least 5 forum polls at different sites, EB store employees tallying up a sold / return ratio, journolists (sp?) reporting how many have failed at their offices etc.

Yay reading comprehension! I said my DVD-ROM failure fit into the standard 1-3% category. I said nothing about the percentage of overheating, only that measures have been taken to prevent it in the future.

I don't want to be without my console for 2-6 weeks multiple times over the course of 3 years.

The hope is that Microsoft solves the problem, after which you'll get a fully-fixed console on your next replacement. If that doesn't happen, I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft opened new repair centers and hired more staff to deal with the influx of boxes. I suspect Microsoft simply got overwhelmed this summer after the announcement of the extended warranty, when a bunch of people who were sitting on dead out-of-warranty consoles suddenly were able to send theirs in for free.

Secondly due to DRM you have to sign in to Xbox live to be able to play your downloaded Xbox games because they are signed to the hardware of your DEAD console see : http://brokenxblm.blogspot.com/

Old news. Microsoft has put a process in place by which all of your content is flagged for re-keying when your console is replaced. This fix was put in place last spring, and I know this first-hand because I was able to re-key all of my content after receiving my second replacement (first RROD, second dead DVD drive). Simply re-download your content to re-key it. If you kept your hard drive like you were supposed to, you won't actually re-download the content but just receive a new key. Use your account history to go back through and download everything you care about. It took me less than 30 minutes to refresh a year and a half worth of content (XBLA games, themes, pictures, game expansions, etc).

Of course if you use one of the store warranties like from Best Buy where they just swap you a new console off the shelf, your content won't be rekeyed. In this case you're much better off using the Microsoft warranty repair instead.

Why should I support a company releasing shit hardware, can't they get their act together, it's been 2 fucking years! and finally and I believe by far most importantly,..

That's not quite fair. It was only 1.5 years old when the new GPU heatsink and extended warranty were put into place this past spring/early summer. Unfortunately there were already 10+ million consoles in the channel at that point, which means that a huge backlog needs to clear before you stop hearing about console failures. As for why you should support such a company, that's up to you to decide. For me, it's pretty easy -- the Xbox 360 has the games I want, and Microsoft has shown that they stand behind the hardware with their extended warranty support. You're free to buy a Wii or PS3, both, all, or none. Nobody's holding a gun to your head and saying, "Buy an Xbox or you die."

3 Years? big fucking deal, there's still gamers playing 5 year old PS2's, 8 year old PS1's, 10 year old N64's and older, sure some old hardware breaks down, I won't deny that but at least you have a chance,...... why should I or anyone else purchase a product which is actually LIKELY to break down, forcing me to have to buy a new one in 3.01 years time or 4 years etc?

There are plenty of dead PS1 and PS2 consoles out there. Early-run PS2s had major laser problems. While the Xbox 360 is a bit of an extreme case, it's not the only console to ever have major hardware issues. At least Microsoft is supporting it. Did Sony ever increase the warranty on PS2s for laser issues?

Also there's rumours there'

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[Osty]

The disc tray in the slim PS2 has a clip for the disc, allowing it to stand up safely

The slim PS2 uses a top-loading design, and as such clips the disk onto the hub (similar to the old PS1, Dreamcast, and Gamecube, though those couldn't be placed vertically). The old fat PS2 had a sliding tray like the Xbox 360, but also had a more substantial lip to keep the disk in place while vertical. Both PS2 designs are most stable with a stand (sold separately), though the fat PS2 is more stable than the slim without the stand due to a bulkier design.

The 360 was designed to look nice (and is marketed as) standing up, but it is not very stable, and has a relatively loose tray. Something as simple as a door slamming in the house can cause enough vibration to make the disc wobble inside. This could be considered a system design flaw, but it is one that is very easily fixed by end users for the time being - lay the system flat at all times.

I've used my 360 vertically since day one. While I have had problems (red ring of death and a dead DVD drive), none of them can be traced to its vertical statue (the DVD drive failed to spin the disk when oriented verticaly or horizontally -- I suspected a simple mechanical failure, but wasn't about to go poking around while my warranty was still valid). All of my disks are mark-free, and I've never seen the console so much as wobble from slamming doors, walking around, booming bass, or anything else. That said, if you do have the 360 placed in a precarious area (atop a wobbly bookcase, for example, or on a non-ground floor of a rickety apartment building), I could certainly see how that could be a problem.

It's not unheard of for people to move their system while a disc is inside, even when powered on. Why they do it is beyond me, since it seems common sense not to.

They want to see the pretty lights move. The Xbox 360's ring of light will re-orient itself if you change its position while on. Unfortunately many people don't realize that doing so with a disk actually spinning in the drive is a bad idea. The manual warns against it, but nobody reads the manual. Thus Microsoft started putting stickers on the drive when new warning against it, but once you remove the sticker the warning's gone. I suspect that if it weren't for the pretty lights, very few people would try moving their 360 while a disk is spinning.

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[Raenex]

You have to remember that you're squeezing all that into a tiny box and you need to keep it cool and quiet, on a limited budget. Microsoft failed, no doubt, but certainly the task wasn't easy. In comparison, the PS3 is beautifully designed -- cool, quiet, and reliable. But way too expensive. I wonder if they could have sold it for a decent price without the Blu-ray.

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[Raenex]

If ANYTHING in my house broke that often, to hell with the warranty, I'd buy a different brand. The problem is game consoles aren't interchangable once you've invested in games. Plus your basic alternatives are a Wii or a PS3. Wii has a different focus, and the PS3 costs a lot more, and again the game lineups are different. It's not like buying a toaster.

Microsoft for once did the right thing by extending the warranty. I can see how people would be willing to stick with them. That said, I own a launch version of the 360 and it's too damn noisy, the games demand you have a high-def TV, and I really don't like the idea that the hardware is prone to breaking. I won't buy any games for it, don't pay for Xbox Live, and stick to playing downloaded demos for free. Fuck them :)

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[tabby]

I'm sure people have had problems... but I pre-ordered my 360 & have been playing it pretty intensely every since with no issues. Maybe I'm just lucky or maybe its just a matter of time. Personally I think the scope of the problem is overblown as a result of the number of units that have been sold.

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[NotNormal23224]

The hardware fix is actually a new heat pipe and heat sink for the retrofitted in the older 90nm systems(yes even some Elite's fall into that category) newer machines however are shipping with a smaller (65nm) cooler chipset. So most likely all the newer bundle ones have the newer chipset. So those are the fixes.

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[Applekid]

Seriously, it has a known, fatal design flaw. Which is fixed. Manufacture date after September 15th or so of this year and you get the Falcon (65nm) chipset which runs cooler. Plus the bigger heatsink assembly has been going out since late July. You're almost a month late or over two months late with your objection depending on which option you feel fixes the issue.

I just don't get why MS didn't jump all over this and fix it immediately and issue a big press release about how awesome they were and so on. Maybe because it wasn't as prevalent a problem as the rabid gamer blog networks made it out to be?

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[Floritard]

That is all that is holding me back anymore. These new prices sound enticing, and as much as that Marvel game sounds like ass to me, I'd actually like to have Forza 2. I was holding out for Sony to get their shit together, but Force Unleashed and the new GTA are right around the corner and I need a new system to play with when I put down the Wiimote for a little while every now and then. Really wanted to stay away from Microsoft this time as the PS2 just blew the doors off my XBox with a truly superior game library, but I just don't know if Sony will justify such a large price tag anytime soon. Microsoft has the reasonable price tag, but I have never once had to return or refurbish any game console I've ever had, and I've had every Nintendo/Sega/Sony console released up to this "gen." Hell even my original XBox is happily running XBMC to this day. I have no patience for unreliable (or noisy for that matter), and no one else should either. Three-year warranty or not, its unacceptable to me to have to return a console for repairs even once. Leave it to Microsoft to make buying a console a truly risky proposition and to lower the bar for quality control in such an unprecedented (in my own experience) way. If they could certifiably prove they fixed their damn console they'd have my money tomorrow. Until then, screw it I'll go back to PC gaming.

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[Blakey Rat]

Maybe you can use the power of the interwebs and link me to some of this "hard data." I've never seen any, and I know for a fact that Microsoft hasn't released any.

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[twistedsymphony]

I really don't understand why anyone would tilt the console while in operation. I'm not even convinced that it's the primary cause of disk damage. If it's causing a lot of problems, then why aren't there a lot of Wii and PS3 owners complaining about the same thing? Those systems have a horizontal and vertical position too. When that explanation was given, I assumed it was the maker trying to blame the user.

it's because of the DVD drive design... most drives have little rubber pads in place to keep the disc from tilting when loaded. for whatever reason the 360 drive doesn't have those pads (if I had to guess it's due to cost cutting measures) There is however a metal lip that makes up part of the assembly that when the disc tips to extreme levels it makes contact and if the disc is moving it will create a circular scratch right along the inside of the disc.

Poor design yes, but only certain drives are effected this way because MS simply outsourced the drives to 3rd party manufacturers... I believe it's the Hitachi drives that are known for making scratches.

It's been tested and proven that tilting the console with a disc in the tray is the only way to scratch the disc (save an actual malfunction). I don't have any links handy because this issue is so dead and gone it's not even relevant anymore. Amazingly when MS started including stickers on the drives stating "do not move console with disc in drive" the issue seemed to disappear. Seems like common sense to me but some people just need to be told.

Re:Did they fix their console yet?

[king-manic]

360
fail
rate
and
here
and
here.

This anecdote
An Over view.
another article

As well Microsoft has announced about 100$ for each xbox 360 sold thus far($1 billion dollars). Which would be warranty repair costs and replacements costs for 1/3 of it's units if each replacement costs the same price as a new one in product costs and handling costs. Some say they may just be overly cautious but no manufacturer would announce such a huge warranty budget and risk extremely bad PR if there wasn't a problem. Given the next revision (falcon) will utilize the 65nm chip fab for the CPU it's less likely those will fail thus that billion is likely for machines already sold. Those new boxes aren't in the retail channels yet either.

yawn

[Hes Nikke]

since i'm not interested in either of those games i can turn around drop them off for $5 each at FunCoGameStopLand. wake me when the system comes with something fun like bioshock, or halo 3, or gears of war, or mass effect, or...

Yes

[SuperKendall]

Supposedly the most recent systems have the hardware fix in place that should prevent the kinds of problems older 360 units were having.

Re:Yes

[skulgnome]

Buddy of mine got the black 360 (what was it again, extreme or extra or just X or something), supposedly one with the "board bending due to heat" problem addressed with some hot glue or something.

Lasted him all of a week before going 3 quadrants red. Not such a proper preventive fix after all, is it.

Go buy your second or third, today!

[Seumas]

Go buy one or two spare 360s today, so you'll have a system around when the other one bricks! Remember, they're disposable!

Missing Slogan...

[SlowMovingTarget]

The "Go Screw Yourself" pack comes with no controller and a Pokemon game for the N-Cube.

So that's why...

[Xest]

...shopto.net is selling the XBox 360 PREMIUM for £194.99, to get rid of pre-bundle stock ;)

I was going to say that's quite a hefty price drop and nice to see the premium finally reach the sub-£200 mark, makes the 360 damn attractive. Their prices have always been good and they did the same with the PS3 but I almost thought it was a typo when I saw it!

Sounds more like a marketing piece for Microsoft

[gamer4Life]

you'll be able to get a little more for your dollar when buying a new Xbox 360.

Wow, they bundled games to their system. This wasn't even written by a contributer. Seems like Zonk is in Microsoft's back pocket.

More interesting will be the EA bundle

[WillAffleckUW]

After all, most people play EA games like sports and Sims than they do the "bundle pack" games aforementioned.

Even more interesting would have been a Japan-centric game release of formerly Japan-only xBox360 games (there are some super sweet ones) for the US market, pre-installed and with super cool package add-ons.

Arcade

[rafikki]

the $279.99 'Arcade' bundle, which bore all similar markings as the new models, and was tagged 'Go Play' ... As yet, Microsoft has not officially announced the bundle, but all signs point to its imminent arrival.

I work in retail, and our internal electronics related messaging system had an announcement that the xbox arcade was slated for release like 0ct 23rd or something, stores would be receiving them shortly.

The only bundle I want...

[Torodung]

Is one that bundles a fire extinguisher with the darned thing (labeled "Go to blazes").

I hope the new process chips work out for them, or it's going to be a much rougher ride than a simple $1 bn one-time expense and PR damage control. This one was not ready for prime time. It's a defective product, and if MS doesn't make good, there's going to be class actions.

--
Toro

Re:Interesting...

[MBraynard]

They aren't charging more. They are charging the same price and throwing in two pretty good games.

So hey

[skulgnome]

Does one of these bundles come with two 360s? For, you know, the time when the first one will turn into 3/4 of a red circle.

Why should Microsoft do this?

[the computer guy nex]

Microsoft and Sony sell their consoles at a loss, hoping you purchase 3-4 games to recover. For every person that buys a Sony just as a Blu-Ray player, you are royally screwing Sony.

Microsoft doesn't want to suffer this also.

Re:Why should Microsoft do this?

[toolie]

Microsoft and Sony sell their consoles at a loss, hoping you purchase 3-4 games to recover. For every person that buys a Sony just as a Blu-Ray player, you are royally screwing Sony. So somehow giving them money is royally screwing them over, rather than just letting the box sit on the shelf where they see no money for it? Can somebody explain this logic to me?

Re:Why should Microsoft do this?

[Kris_J]

I'm sure some significant proportion of people who buy a console just to play movies ends up buying a few games titles. I recently bought a PSP (secondhand) to play some UMD titles I was adding to a collection and I also bought Wipeout Pure when I spotted it at an EB's. I mainly bought a PS2 to play DVDs, even bought Datel's DVD Region X for region bypass at the same time. I must have bought about a dozen PS2 titles in the end.

But mainly, MS has an opportunity to capture a market that's not interested in gambling on just one format. I can't possibly be the only one waiting for the format war to be over. Either one format has to die, or hybrid devices need to be more affordable. MS could make the format war irrelevant AND drastically increase their installation base simply by adding Blu-ray to their 360. And since they'd do it with an external, separately-purchasable drive just like HD-DVD it wouldn't even affect the price of their base games system.

Meanwhile, if they continue to cling to HD-DVD and consider Blu-ray to be their enemy, everybody loses.

I Want One

[Blackknight]

I want to get the 360 just for Halo 3, for $279 I'd buy one in a heart beat. Sorry fan boys, not everything MS does is evil, the Xbox is one thing they got right.

Re:Interesting...

[p0tat03]

It's ingenious, really. Parents don't have to spend extra cash buying games for Timmy's Xbox this Christmas, they can just get the bundle. After all, Joe Parent doesn't know that the bundled games aren't hot with the kids right now. Little Timmy will play bundled games for a couple of weeks and begin demanding for hit titles like Halo. Parents, having already gotten the box already, will just cave and start buying more 360 games.

Given the loss MS took (and perhaps continue to take) on hardware sold, this is exactly the situation they want to be in.