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Canadian Mint Claims Rights To Words "One Cent"

knorthern knight writes "A weird intersection of copyright/trademark with politics is playing out in Canada. Short background: various Canadian cities and municipalities have launched a publicity/lobbying campaign seeking a fixed take from the GST (Goods and Services Tax, a national Canadian sales tax similar to European VAT). The amount sought is 1 cent for each dollar of the purchase price. This is summarized by the slogan 'One Cent of the GST NOW.' According to a press release, the Royal Canadian Mint (the federal agency that prints Canadian paper currency and stamps Canadian coins) has demanded from the City of Toronto $47,680 in royalties for use of the phrase 'one cent', and the image of the Canadian penny. $10,000 covers the use of the words 'one cent' in the campaign website address (www.onecentnow.ca) and email address (onecentnow@toronto.ca). An additional $10,000 is demanded for the use of these words in the campaign phone number (416-ONE-CENT). The remaining $27,680 covers the use of the image of the Canadian penny in printed materials such as pins and posters." Here's a National Post article on the brouhaha.

26 of 286 comments (clear)

  1. My two cents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Oh shit...

    1. Re:My two cents by somersault · · Score: 4, Funny

      I hope 50 Cent doesn't try selling music in Canada, or he's screwed.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    2. Re:My two cents by trolltalk.com · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's not a joke, but the mint will lose in court.

      1. There is NO copyright notice on ANY Canadian currency.
      2. Any copyright old enough to defeat a prior use claim will have expired
      3. Any copyright recent enough to be enforceable is defeated by prior use, not just in Canada, but other countries
      4. If they insist, we'll all just switch to Canadian Tire money. After all, eBay accepts it (Canadian Tire bought a bank - they're very heavy in the credit business).
    3. Re:My two cents by rs79 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      (This applies to Canada)

      You need to look up "official mark". Although handled through the trademark office an official mark has enhanced protection unter the law. Official marks can be granted for things you can't get a trademark for and the exact wording does not need to be registered. And this is a trademark issue that has nothing to do with copyright. The right to copy money falled under the criminal code. A case could be made for protection as an registered industrial design though.

      Having said that, according to the (govt) strategis database there are 123 hits for trademarks with "cent" in them.

      The questions are: is the likeness of the penny similar enough to warrent infringement. Courts so far seem to want things to be very very close. They could lose on that point. Is "one cent" protected? If it is it hasn't been enforced in the past, not that this matters a whole lot as far as an official mark is concerned.

      See
      1) http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/app/cipo/trademarks/search/tmSearch.do?language=eng

      2) 9(1)(n)(iii) of the Trade-marks Act

      This case could go either way. And they might or might not be reversed by a higher court. There is no federal court ruling on this and lower course have been inconsistant. It's a distractive strategy IMO to piss off the Toronto poeple.

      --
      Need Mercedes parts ?
    4. Re:My two cents by evalhalla · · Score: 4, Insightful

      1) Under the Berne convention there is no need for copyright notices for works to be protected
      2) prior use / art applies to brevets, not to copyright
      3) as above
      4) well, that could work, but I don't see it as mattering in court

      I don't see the mint winning either, at least on the "one cent" phrase; they may have a point on the use of the image of the canadian penny, however.

  2. first we need to clarify by edittard · · Score: 4, Funny

    Is that one cent, or point zero one of a cent?

    --
    At the bottom of the /. main page it says 'Yesterday's News'. Well they got that right.
    1. Re:first we need to clarify by youthoftoday · · Score: 3, Funny

      Um, sir, can't you see they're the same thing? I see no problem there.

      --
      -1 not first post
  3. When will it end?! by Enoxice · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There are some days I have to double check myself and make sure I'm not reading the Onion by mistake. Those days seem to be becoming larger in number.

    --
    Anyone else think the comments just weren't rendering right before they turned off ABP and saw ads?
  4. Parity with US$ has gone to their heads! by jcc · · Score: 5, Funny


    Loonies!

  5. this could happen.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    ..only in America.

  6. Simple to fix... by renesch · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... change the tax to 'two cents', and forward all complaints to the 'Royal Canadian Mint'

  7. If they get through with this .... by aix+tom · · Score: 4, Insightful

    .... Toronto should pay. .... In cash. .... In pennies.

    1. Re:If they get through with this .... by tgd · · Score: 4, Funny

      That makes a lot of cents.

    2. Re:If they get through with this .... by rustalot42684 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Nope. You can't use more than 26 pennies in a single purchase. It's the LAW here.

  8. Re:Southern Inspiration by Jaxoreth · · Score: 4, Funny

    Canadians can't stand for this. We have to stamp the crazy out now
    Why? Is it replacing the loony?
    --
    In general, it is safe and legal to kill your children. -- POSIX Programmer's Guide
  9. Yeah, that would show them by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is the mint, they deal with TONS of cents EACH AND EVERY DAY, you think 4.768.000 coins is going to scare them? They got machines for that. Oh and processing fees.

    If you have any kind of a decent bank, they just take your old jar of coins, empty it in a machine and a little later they got a nice total and the money sorted. if your bank charges you for this, you know you got a bad bank. Granted, it is getting harder to find a good bank, in my youth banks went out of their way to advertise bank accounts to small kids, allowing them to save coins and then deposit them in a savings account. Their way of getting future business I guess. Today if you show up with a ton of cash to put into their accounts so they can make amazing profits on it, they charge you a deposit fee. Ah progress.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:Yeah, that would show them by tomhudson · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You can't just pay in pennies.

      Amounts that are considered legal tender in Canada (which means they can't be refused):

      1. up to 25 pennies
      2. 1 dollar in nickels
      3. to dollars in dimes
      4. 40 quarters
      5. 20 dollars in loonies ($1 coin)
      6. 40 dollars in toonies *$2 coin)

      So no, they're not obligated to take a ton of pennies.

  10. Re:ummm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    > I thought the Romans had the cent long before Canada.

    ummmm, no. They had the denarius. That's why British LSd money referred to their _penny_ as 1d -- d for denarius.

    And a _penny_ was not the same thing as a _cent_. There were 240 "old" pence in the pound.

    Those of us on {Dollars|Euros|Pesos|Rands|etc.}, and Cent(avo)s are using new fangled decimal money that came much later on.

  11. "One Cent" by kaszeta · · Score: 3, Informative
    I'm a little surprised that they assert that "one cent" is their phrase, since, unlike US coinage, they actually use numeric denominations on their coins. The Canadian penny actually says "1 cent" on it.

    Maybe the US Mint should insist they get paid instead...

    Oh, and the Royal Canadian Mint isn't a "Federal Agency". It's a Crown Corporation (status similar to the US Post Office).

  12. trademarks of common vocabulary by e**(i+pi)-1 · · Score: 3, Informative
    This fits well into other cases, where one has attempted to trademark common vocabulary:
    • "You have mail" AOL
    • "Hall of Fame" National Baseball Hall of Fame
    • "Entrepreneur" Entreprenour Media
    • "Windows" Microsoft (ruled generic 1993)
    • "Memory game" Ravensburger (a website I maintain was involved in that once)
    Tradmarking common vocabulary is as questionable as patenting common tasks. The problem is that it is often cheaper to pay off than go through a legal fight. And that encourages the litigators. The good thing is that such battles usually are PR desasters for the companies involved.
  13. AHA! Aboot time! by db32 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Take that you smug little bastards! You sit up there all pointing and laughing at how insane the IP system has gotten in the US... HAH! Welcome to the new world, not so smug now eh? One Cent...holy crap... And its not even some profit mongering megacorp up there, its your freakin federal agency suing the city. On top of that the irony involved in the fact that the whole thing is about trying to get 'one cent' out of the tax, and the government response is to charge them for asking for it! Aaaahahahahahaa. Now maybe you won't be so damned smug when stupid shit happens here down south of you.

    --
    The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
  14. Re:Southern Inspiration by dreamchaser · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The US certainly has a huge number of problems, but it still amazes me that not one thread can go by here without someone karma whoring by inserting a veiled or not so veiled reference that says 'It must be the United State's fault'.

    The US Mint has never done anything at all similar. Private companies have, but those are not a Government entity. Let's keep on topic and focus on Canada for once, ok?

  15. RCM != Paper Money by alexburke · · Score: 5, Informative

    the Royal Canadian Mint (the federal agency that prints Canadian paper currency and stamps Canadian coins)


    Nope. The Royal Canadian Mint stamps coins only. The Bank of Canada is responsible for paper money, the actual printing of which is performed by Canadian Bank Note Company, Limited and BA International Inc (formerly British American Banknote).
  16. Seriously by mdigiac1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I am embarrassed to be Canadian. Clearly this is the first of many stupid things to happen. Next Up: Canadian Election. Do I vote for tweedle Dee or tweedle Dumb.

    --
    Windows on a mac is Windows under Supervision. - Frank Soltis(Chief Scientist/Designer of AS400)
  17. Re:ummm by UbuntuDupe · · Score: 3, Informative

    No, but (odd bit of trivia), they did have the census, which measured someone's total wealth, and eventually morphed into Zins in German, their word for (bank) interest.

  18. Re:ummm by Seraphim1982 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Fun fact of the day:

    A Roman Centurion who commanded a normal full-strength centuria generally had about 80 soldiers, not 100 as the name would suggest. The missing 20 men were non-combat servants or people with special skills.