Yahoo! Accused of Lying to Congress about Chinese Journalist

verybadradio writes "The House Committee on Foreign Affairs is calling Yahoo! chief executive Jerry Yang to a hearing on 6 November to explain why the company lied to Congress in early 2006 about its knowledge of the investigation into Chinese journalist Shi Tao."

Comments

have we learned nothing from our leaders?

[Evets]

All Yang has to do is say "I was misinformed" and "I was not directly involved". This is a non-story.

Re:have we learned nothing from our leaders?

[faloi]

"I did not have sexual relations with that government!"

Re:have we learned nothing from our leaders?

[CRWeaks23]

All Yang has to do is say "I was misinformed" and "I was not directly involved". Woah, that's giving up way too much information.

"I do not recall" will suffice, with a "I cannot recollect" thrown in once in a while for good measure.

Re:have we learned nothing from our leaders?

[Critical Facilities]

"I did not have consensual sexual relations with that government!"
Fixed that for you. Getting screwed by the government still counts.

Re:have we learned nothing from our leaders?

[DarthGregor]

I wish there was a "+1 sad but true" ...

Re:have we learned nothing from our leaders?

[StillNeedMoreCoffee]

"This is a non-story."

You must be kidding! Lying to Congress under oath. You are just suggesting that a different lie would have gotten Yang off the hook. You are suggesting a safer lie for him. But that core issue here is what does it mean to "be under oath" esp to Congress who is trying to get at the "Truth". That is what you swear and oath to, to tell the "Truth". If we have no way to get at the truth, or have a way to compel a person to tell the truth, then we in deep trouble. Right now it is fines and jail time that is the penalty if you lie under oath.

If as you suggest that lying under oath is OK and desirable then as a liar you would need to come up with a way to, at some point, when you needed to actually get the truth, (because you were in some position of authority, say Congress, the courts, the police, the army, the IRS) you would have to fall back on some other form of getting at the truth that did not rely on the persons morality or ethics or consent. Especially if you were a liar yourself you would assume the worst in a person and that they would not willingly tell the truth unless it benefitted them. Well that would leave only torture and other forms of coersion, such as "rendition" and detention without Habius Corpus. Now where have we seen that sort of behaviour pop up. Maybe that is because the people doing it would not tell the truth themselves unless it benefitted them.

As this being a non-story. I think not. I think it is a central story about where the business community and our leadership has gotten to, and we need to keep the heat on to try and turn this Titanic around before those lies sink this constitutional ship.

Re:have we learned nothing from our leaders?

[StillNeedMoreCoffee]

On the contrary, our elected representatives are trying to bring things back from the brink as this story suggests, by calling back to find out if and why they were lied to. They make laws and take other government action based on the expert testimony of industry leaders that come before them to testify. When they point out through tough swift action to those who treat that process lightly, the process starts to work better. They are not a symbol of a state or governing body, but the reality of one of our governing bodies that is trying to distance itself and clarify that difference from the executive branch, which does have a corrupt (no bid contracts, political appointees where someone with skill or experience should be, lying, retribution against political appointiee, even when they are undercover CIA agents... the list is long) history. They are trying to say here, no, its not business as executively usual, there will be oversight, you will be accountable. This has changed since the last election I might add. What we had with the Republic party (notice no democracy or representive gov here) was no questioning, no oversight, no accountability.

I applaud this new direction and hope it will bring back the glimmer of hope for out representaive 3 branch of gov. democracy.

pot.kettle.black

[night_flyer]

Yahoo was doing what was required to do business in China & considering how the US Gov't has bent over to facilitate China, they have no room to talk.

Re:pot.kettle.black

[MeditationSensation]

True, but that excuse is so tired. No one *has* to do business with China. Choosing profit over human rights is forced on no one.

Re:pot.kettle.black

[nomadic]

I'm not saying you're wrong; all I'm saying is, the public and hence the ruling class in the United States needs to clean up their own house before they start pointing out how dirty everyone else's is.

By that logic until we have stamped out police corruption 100%, no police officer anywhere should arrest anyone.

Re:pot.kettle.black

[Xonstantine]

A couple of hundred people forcibly detained at gitmo hardly compares with what goes on in China on a daily basis. We're talking about a country that doesn't like people who stretch in public, so they execute them and then harvest their organs. And that's just one of a myriad of evils the Chinese regime commits.

Re:pot.kettle.black

[LWATCDR]

"If AT&T can get immunity for the same violations committed within the US on US citizens, why not Yahoo?"
Huh???????
When has anyone in the US gone to jail for publishing a blog critical of the US government?
You are lacking a sense of proportion. I am not saying that the US is perfect but give me a break.
I suggest you go to genocide watch and look at the number of deaths attributed to the Chinese government. I would like to see an investigation of what is going on at Gitmo but you do know that prisoners of war are NOT protected by the US constitution and never have been. They have no right to a trial or legal counsel. Trying to apply constitutional protections too them is invalid. There are international agreements on the treatment of prisoners of war and those should apply. As I said develop a sense of proportion. The US civil rights record and China's are worlds apart. The one thing they share is that they are both not perfect. Of of the big differences is that you are free to complain and comment on the failings of the US system without going to jail.

Re:pot.kettle.black

[jav1231]

Enough with the torture in Gitmo. This myth was blown away by Democrats themselves when they sent several Dem lawmakers down there and returned to confirm this was not true. We're supposed to be more intelligent here as geeks. Enough with the "if we keep saying it, then it's true" mentality. I don't agree with everything this administration does but I'm not willing to perpetuate non-truths to show others I'm on their "team." This crap is tearing the country apart.

Re:pot.kettle.black

[Xonstantine]

Mods, this is not "insightful". It's insanely exaggerated. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Falun_Gong#Allegations_of_organ_harvesting

Although involuntary organ donations are illegal under Chinese law, critics say Beijing does not enforce the policy. In 2001, a Chinese doctor applying for political asylum revealed that he had removed organs from executed prisoners for the transplant market under the auspices of the People's Liberation Army. He claimed that he had operated to remove skin and corneas from executed criminals, and that other doctors sometimes took organs from bodies while their hearts were still beating.[79]

On 9 March 2006, allegations were made of organ harvesting on living Falun Gong practitioners at the China Traditional Medicine Thrombosis Treatment Center, Sujiatun in Shenyang, a joint-venture with Malaysian healthcare company Country Heights Health Sanctuary and subject to oversight in Liaoning province.

According to two witnesses interviewed by The Epoch Times, internal organs of living Falun Gong practitioners have been harvested and sold to the black market, and the bodies were cremated in the hospital's boiler room. They also claim some six thousand practitioners have been held captive at the hospital since 2001, two-thirds of whom have died to date. Removed organs include hearts, kidneys, livers and cornea. The witnesses alleged nobody came out alive.

The Chinese Government accused Falun Gong of fabricating the "Sujiatun concentration camp" issue, reiterating that as a WHO Member State, China resolutely abides by the WHO 1991 Guiding Principles on Human Organ Transplants and strictly forbids the sale of human organs. It added that Sujiatun District government carried out an investigation at the hospital and invited local and foreign media, including NHK and Phoenix Satellite Network; and two visits were paid by US consular personnel, who confirmed that the hospital was completely incapable of housing more than 6,000 persons; there was no basement for incarcerating practitioners; there was simply no way to cremate corpses in secret, continuously, and in large volumes in the hospital's boiler/furnace room.

In July 2006, human rights lawyers David Kilgour and David Matas, concluded an investigation in response to a request by the Coalition to Investigate the Persecution of the Falun Gong in China (CIPFG), a U.S.-based, front organization of the Falun Dafa Association.[80] Their 69-page report[81] gave credence to the allegations of China's harvesting organs from live Falun Gong practitioners.[82][19]The Christian Science Monitor states that the report's evidence is circumstantial, but persuasive.[83] Kilgour said. "Our findings are shocking. To us, this is a form of evil we have yet to see on this planet."[19]

Might want to take up the insane exaggeration argument with the CSM, not me.

Re:pot.kettle.black

[MightyMartian]

Just remember. Humans are expendable. The only thing that counts in America is profits. People, particularly in other parts of the world, exist solely so that American shareholders can get big bucks. Corporations are the only things that should ever be considered, and if they sell out people abroad, or hell, release phone records without warrant to agents of the US government, well, they should be allowed to. It's what Jesus wants. Jesus loves profits, hates anyone who thinks profits should take a distant second place to human rights. Jesus is all about the money, and America is all about Jesus. Only atheists and baby-eating secularists give a shit about Chinese dissidents. Jesus hates the Chinese, except when they bring lots of money to Jesus's favorite entities in the entire Universe; corporations.

God Bless Corporate America, And Fuck Everything Else.

Re:pot.kettle.black

[jrp2]

"Enough with the torture in Gitmo. This myth was blown away by Democrats themselves when they sent several Dem lawmakers down there and returned to confirm this was not true."

Yeah, I can just picture the walk-through by the congressman. "OK everyone, ignore the dudes in the suits, just keep doing what we always do". Like they would actually be doing this stuff when there are congresscritters watching!

That said, most of the torture allegations did not occur at Gitmo. They occurred at secret CIA and military jails, and foreign jails (such as in Egypt). They have not really denied it either, just redefined the term "torture" to not include what they were/are doing, and/or outsourced it to other governments.

Re:pot.kettle.black

[Xonstantine]

So if the US is not quite as evil as China, that's okay? Pretty much. Governments, countries, states, bureaucracies, people are not perfect nor are they perfectable. All states, even little old Andorra, do evil things from time to time. Very few institutionalize evil on the scale of depravity similar to Nazi Germany or Stalin's Russia. Communist China is one of those states that has done so, and continues to do so.

People don't like that 200 or so Jihadis are being held in Gitmo without a trial. Yeah, I get it. It still pales in significant to the prison factory archipelago that is being run in China. And while libs like to pat themselves on the back every time they call Bush a fascist, China really is an emerging fascist state. The idea that we can't criticize China because we aren't perfect ourselves is stupid. Really, really stupid.

Re:Why does US care?

[Opportunist]

The US government has a very selective view of when human rights become something important. I hope they'll soon hand out some kind of guideline when it's ok to ignore them and when not, so far it's kinda confusing.

Lying to Congress? Oh noes!

[Reality Master 201]

That's certain to result in a strongly worded letter with ABSOLUTELY NO consequences at all.

At least, if one is to gauge by Congress' reaction to the widespread stonewalling by every part of the Bush administration and it's corporate political allies.

Re:Why does US care?

[svendsen]

It's not confusing at all. When you violate human rights and have oil we want we will eventually use that as the excuse when we invade your country. If you violate human rights and have no oil you are fine. However if you violate human rights and it gets too public and someone important complains AND it might cost money/re-election well then we have to do something.

Simple!

patriot act?

[pikine]

Just say, "the Chinese NSA sent us a letter forbidding us to disclose the details of this investigation under the Chinese PATRIOT ACT."

I know China is such a serious human rights offender, but that doesn't legitimize the U.S. for being the same. Furthermore, what makes the House think that it would make sense to bully a company that is just trying to run a business under the pressure between two governments?

Ingrates!!

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

I mean, don't these congressmen know which side their bread is buttered and honeyed on?

First Brazilians arrest CEOs, and now American congressmen no less are getting indignant over a few harmless omissions. Governments are getting too big for their boots I say. No respect for their capitalist masters. Time for a good old fashioned recession. That'll put the fear of God into 'em and get 'em back into line quick-sharp!

Failing that, a fascist coup is always an option. We can pull it off during the American Idol finale. I doubt the plebs will even notice! Then we'll be in a better position to match the Chinese economy GDP and journalist lynching growth rates!

Lying under oath isn't required

[Moraelin]

I'm sorry, but lying under oath isn't exactly a legal requirement.

You'll notice that they're not accusing him of human rights violations, they're accusing him of lying to congress. If I read it right, in a sworn testimony too.

So let's put _that_ defense away already. They're not condemning Yahoo for doing business with China. Period.

Plus,

1. it cuts both ways. If he's supposed to comply with Chinese laws and regulations to do business in China, then by the same logic he's supposed to comply with US rules and regulations to do business in the US. That includes such concepts as, basically, that you're not supposed to lie in a sworn testimony.

2. "But <insert other arsehole> is doing it too!" is a defense that was considered laughable even in kindergarten. If Johnny was hitting other kids, it wasn't considered an invitation to do the same even in kindergarten. So it's equally laughable to see it used to defend all around immoral business practices.

3. Especially when it's based on a very warped notion of what it means "doing it too." I don't think the US government officially aided China in hunting down its disidents. There's a big difference between (A) turning a blind eye to someone else doing something wrong, when you can't prevent it anyway, and (B) actively aiding them in doing it. To give an example, it's the difference between, (A) ignoring a bank robbery in progress, since I can't dodge bullets anyway, (B) actually driving the escape car for the robbers. Neither is "knight in shiny armour", but it takes a very disfunctional view of the world to put an equals sign between the two. Neither is white, but they're very different shades of grey.

So to cut it even shorter: just because someone else isn't 100% pure paladin-in-shiny-armour defender-of-all-oppressed, it's not a blank-cheque excuse to be an outright arsehole.

4. I'm sorry, but "cost of doing business" isn't a moral wildcard excuse. You don't have a sacred human right to make a profit at all cost, and it doesn't supersede all other moral and legal expectations.

Sure, we're glad for you if you do manage to make a profit. Kudos and more power to you, and we might even admire you for it.

But if you're an arsehole in the name of doing business and making a profit... well, you're still an arsehole.

The Invitation is the Answer

[Doc Ruby]

Yahoo's answer will be "because lying to Congress only got me this annoying reinvitation to your toothless American committee, but telling the truth would have cost us $millions in business with the deadly serious Chinese mafia government".

Which their toothless committee already knows.

Re:not quite toothless

[Doc Ruby]

If a cell sits in a forest but no one is locked in it, is it really "punishment"?

As you pointed out with that sparse history, punishable is not punished. The rate of punishment for such lying is probably under a thousandth of a percent of the rate of the lying.

Hell, Congress didn't even file contempt charges, inherent or otherwise, against AG Gonzales, while he spent months, years, lying to Congress about matters of the utmost Constitutional (criminal) importance.

Maybe "toothless" isn't quite the word. Maybe "gummy" is more accurate.