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Is Web 2.0 A Bigger Threat Than Outsourcing?

An anonymous reader writes "According to InformationWeek, Web 2.0 is even worse than outsourcing for IT jobs. The article talks about corporations that have laid off IT staff and replaced them with technologies like mashups and wikis that can help people get things done without involving IT. Most IT people still think Web 2.0 is an overhyped buzzword, but that might not matter: So many Web 2.0 apps are sold (or given away for free) by software-as-a-service companies like Google that people can bypass IT altogether, and IT might not even know until it's too late."

20 of 331 comments (clear)

  1. Automation is always a threat by EmagGeek · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It doesn't matter what the industry is. Automation is always a "threat" to jobs. But, people still work in the auto industry, and people still work in IT. You can look at automation two ways. You can view it as a threat to yourself, and you will be one of the poor-attitude IT workers that get laid off. Or, you can look at automation as a tool to let you get more done, and you will be one of the self-motivated go-getters that can be a VP of Technology since you don't have to bother yourself with peon work anymore.

    1. Re:Automation is always a threat by Qhue · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Poor attitude among IT folk is a much bigger threat than Web2.0 or indeed anything else. In order to guarantee job security our local IT have declared hegemony over all technology and introduced labor-intensive blockades that keep them busy...so busy that any concept of innovation completely passes them by! When everyone walks around with a dangling ring of USB flashdrives because trying to get networked fileshare space is a major hassle and ridiculously expensive ($3k for a 1 gig partition charged to your overhead budget!) and technical leads start forwarding proprietary email to gmail because of 250 meg limits on Outlook then the overall opinion of IT folk is going to collapse.

    2. Re:Automation is always a threat by jollyreaper · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Poor attitude among IT folk is a much bigger threat than Web2.0 or indeed anything else. In order to guarantee job security our local IT have declared hegemony over all technology and introduced labor-intensive blockades that keep them busy...so busy that any concept of innovation completely passes them by! When everyone walks around with a dangling ring of USB flashdrives because trying to get networked fileshare space is a major hassle and ridiculously expensive ($3k for a 1 gig partition charged to your overhead budget!) and technical leads start forwarding proprietary email to gmail because of 250 meg limits on Outlook then the overall opinion of IT folk is going to collapse. Yeef. Some friends have gone to work for a local construction company and the IT department is seen as pretty awful there, just not having the knowledge to keep things up and running. Of course, anyone with brains coming into an outfit like that will be seen as a threat and pushed out the door as quickly as possible unless management is clueful and will back him up on that. If management is not clueful, that guy will be pushed out the door and hegemony preserved.

      At my last company, we had to lock things down with paperwork for self-defense. We were perfectly happy with just getting an email notice on things that needed done but dickish managers tried burning us to cover for their own mistakes. Ok, fine, wanna play that game? Now everything requires paperwork filled out and signed by two or three managers just to provide a papertrail and CYA in case someone tries to burn IT again. Website changes were a nightmare. Marketing would provide material that should have been vetted and wasn't, it would be a rush-rush to get up on the website, we'd do it, and lo and behold, it was all fucked up. Marketing then acts like IT was responsible for misspellings, factual misrepresentations, and typos. Oh no you don't, asshole. We put in a test server for you to review the content on, you're going to fucking use it. Request comes in, content is on test server for 24 hours of review, only then does it go on the live site. We have signatures from you each step of the way. Any fuckups were blessed by you.

      It's a cumbersome system full of red tape and something I would never have put in place but for my own self-preservation. This marketing weasel had a history of throwing people under the bus to cover for his own fuckups and I wasn't going to be his next victim.

      But back to your story, is there ass-covering involved or are your IT guys just ignorant mutants?
      --
      Kwisatz Haderach
      Sell the spice to CHOAM
      This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    3. Re:Automation is always a threat by jollyreaper · · Score: 4, Funny

      We had an employee here (a friend of mine) that quit. I replaced him with a series of scripts and now I 'do' his job and mine, too. "Go away or I will replace you with a very small shell script"

      Man, and I thought that was just an idle threat. You should get him a shirt that says "I was replaced by a series of scripts" and use his fate as a warning to others. Darth Vader ain't got shit on you.
      --
      Kwisatz Haderach
      Sell the spice to CHOAM
      This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    4. Re:Automation is always a threat by Run4yourlives · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's called the path of least resistance. If IT isn't that path, you can bet that business users will find another one.

      As IT your goal should be to be that path where ever possible. Charging 3K for a gig is blatantly ridiculous.

    5. Re:Automation is always a threat by SnapShot · · Score: 4, Insightful
      This may not be perfectly applicable to your anecdote, but I saw this quote from a writer of The Wire and it's been echoing in my head as I've been reading all the posts about the pros and cons of automation:

      "The Wire," Simon often says, is a show about how contemporary American society--and, particularly, "raw, unencumbered capitalism"--devalues human beings. He told me, "Every single moment on the planet, from here on out, human beings are worth less. We are in a post-industrial age. We don't need as many of us as we once did. So, if the first season was about devaluing the cops who knew their beats and the corner boys slinging drugs, then the second was about devaluing the longshoremen and their labor, the third about people who wanted to make changes in the city, and the fourth was about kids who were being prepared, badly, for an economy that no longer really needs them. And the fifth? It's about the people who are supposed to be monitoring all this and sounding the alarm--the journalists. The newsroom I worked in had four hundred and fifty people. Now it's got three hundred. Management says, 'We have to do more with less.' That's the bullshit of bean counters who care only about the bottom line. You do less with less." Are we becoming a society where we just need less people? Except, of course, as consumers...
      --
      Waltz, nymph, for quick jigs vex Bud.
    6. Re:Automation is always a threat by __aagmrb7289 · · Score: 4, Informative

      And this means that the IT department SHOULD be replaced as the ridiculously expensive overhead that it is. If you guys don't see how crazy it is to argue that $3000.00/gig is an okay cost, then you are missing the whole point - this is why company ARE outsourcing equipment and employee resources - the cost savings CAN be made to overcome the hassles - at $3000/gig!

  2. Shifting of costs by cerberusss · · Score: 4, Interesting
    FTFA:

    "We've cut IT staff by 20%, and we're providing a whole lot more in terms of IT services," says Ken Harris, CIO at nutritional products manufacturer Shaklee. Harris started with a mashup platform from StrikeIron; [...] Now, Shaklee gets its ERP from Workday and search from Visual Sciences
    Right, so he doesn't pay his own staff but instead pays staff at StrikeIron, Workday and Visual Sciences.

    Bottomline: this is about a CIO who recently got hired and wants to put his stamp on his new department.
    --
    8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
  3. Thank God by daeg · · Score: 4, Funny

    You mean other staff can start writing their own documents, wikis, etc and don't need me to re-install Microsoft Office three times a year? Thank God!

  4. Good for users, bad for security? by Bearhouse · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Much-discussed here already. If IT does not respond to user requests, they'll get sidelined. Been happening even since they bought out the first minis, (yes - minis, not micros).

    Smart IT bosses anticipate user needs. We need to be saying "hey, have you seen how you could do your job better with this new thing?"... But many don't. So we're seen as a cost centre, rather than a profit centre. A hinderance, rather than an enabler.

    Then we get outsourced...or control passes to the users and third parties. The risk is that corporate IT becomes an unstructured mess.

    With no central authority, who then looks after the basics, such as corporate standards for storing and sharing information? What about security? Sure, some smart user can download the latest mashup, but will it play well with everything else? What's the upgrade path?

  5. What is IT for? by erroneous · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The purpose of IT - indeed any technology - is to improve the efficiency of business process so that more things can be achieved, more accurately, by less people.

    Throwing your hands up and saying that improvements in IT are costing IT jobs is about as pointless as complaining that tractors and combine harvesters mean there's a relative lack of shovelling jobs available in agriculture these days.

    --
    erroneous: look me up in a dictionary
  6. Solving Problems by allthingscode · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A story I remember about technology:
    Two men are standing beside the road watching the new backhoe dig a hole. "Look at that. Think of how many men with shovels could be working if we didn't have that thing," says the older man. "Think of how many men with spoons could be working if we didn't have the shovel," said the other.
    If a problem is simple enough that it can be replaced by an automated system, then solve it and give me a more interesting problem to work on.

  7. Was it really an IT job? by JeremyGNJ · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If your job could be replaced by a wiki, it wasnt *really* an IT job to begin with.

    Sometimes I almost can't believe what is considered an "IT Job" these days. I've been in the IT industry for about 10 years. When I started if you were in the IT dept it meant that you knew the in's-and-out's of the most popular technologies, most importantly the workstation OS's that companies used.

    These days so many of "IT Jobs" are just administrative positions which require more spreadsheet skills than they can find at the local temp agency.

  8. Re:The web 2.0 cloud blaghosphere by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    No! You don't understand: Web 2.0 will synergise key technologies into a mashup Wiki that will enable customers to drive their own solutions and manage SOA n-tier applications without any requirement at all for infastructure, oversight, management or maintainance! Using AJAX will save you 110% each quarter on IT spending. It will make you coffee, fetch you donuts and give you a blowjob! Web 2.0 is here to save the universe! Everyone get connected!

    If you think that's neat just you wait for the symantic web on handheld supercomputers. I hear that will be ready only 15 years from now!

  9. Re:Mashups? by discord5 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Exactly how are "mashups" a technology?

    Gigantic robotic arms with huge potato mashers. Once every year they set them loose around the office down here, and everyone screams and runs. The survivors get a raise, the widows of those who didn't make it get a ham. Best teambuilding event ever, especially when you're screaming "Every man for himself!" at the top of your lungs while avoiding the masher.

  10. Re:The web 2.0 cloud blaghosphere by Splab · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Until said provider goes tits up or even better, sells your data to someone else...

  11. Re:Mashups? by MrKaos · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So it's just like outsourcing then.

    --
    My ism, it's full of beliefs.
  12. Automation is always a threat to lazy pricks by slyborg · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Agreed.

    There is no "natural economy" favoring the IT guys. I've worked as one, and I know full well the combination of poor social skills combined with high self-regard for their own intelligence/expertise that leads to an arrogant "priesthood" mentality. Additionally, because of their responsibilty for the critical data plumbing of a modern business, the fear of being responsible for failure of what are, frankly, often fragile systems causes a bunker mentality. Their customers, namely the rest of the organization, is viewed as a threat - because anything they do could trigger failure. I've often felt that in many IT groups, the preferred infrastructure for the non-IT personnel would be un unplugged PC in a locked room. In these types of groups, the organization will eventually seize any viable alternative to eliminate the IT group. After all, they are usually relatively expensive staff.

    Successful IT organizations know that they are purely a service business. The most important attributes are responsiveness and reliability. If these are not present, they will not survive.

  13. good! by m2943 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If producing a good or service requires less input--fewer man hours, less energy, less raw materials--that's a good thing; and our free market economy is supposed to achieve exactly that.

    In a few years, many small and medium sized businesses will probably be able to get by without IT staff altogether; they'll be using mostly web-based services and outsourced remote management.

    Of course, this means that a lot of IT people will need to find new jobs. So what? IT itself eliminated many jobs: typists, secretaries, customer service, filing clerks, mail handlers, etc. IT professionals really have even less business complaining about this than other professions.

  14. Re:The web 2.0 cloud blaghosphere by Tim+C · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When a member of your IT staff does it, you can fire or even prosecute them, and unless they're really malicious and destroy or poison the data and back ups, you still have the original data.

    When an outsourced IT company does it:

    a) it may not be illegal in their country of origin
    b) it may not be covered in the contract you have with them
    c) even if it is, it may not be covered in whatever deal is made if they're bought out
    d) there may be no mechanism for (easily) recovering your data in the event of terminating service
    e) if they go tits up there may be no way at all to recover your data

    It's not a question of whether or not trusting mission-critical data or services to a third party is a risk, it's a question of whether it's a sensible or necessary risk to take.