Germany Seeks Expansion of Computer Spying

gooman writes "The LA Times reports on a proposal to secretly scan suspects' hard drives which is causing unease in a nation with a history of official surveillance. Along with several other European countries, Germany is seeking authority to plant secret Trojan viruses into the computers of suspects that could scan files, photos, diagrams and voice recordings, record every keystroke typed and possibly even turn on webcams and microphones in an attempt to gain knowledge of attacks before they happen."

Comments

Europe beating USA in the big brother arms race

[MeditationSensation]

You hear a lot of stories on sites these days about the USA turning into a police state, but I think the UK (all those CCTVs) and I guess now Germany are really kicking our butts in that department lately.

Re:Europe beating USA in the big brother arms race

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

I don't know who "we" is for you, but here in the UK, it's official in name only: most of the laws being passed today that affect me are either coming from Europe (where the Commission I don't get a say in electing trump the Parliament I do), Gordon Brown and his administration (who were never elected and have no legitimate mandate whatsoever), or my local County Council (who are imposing very unpopular measures on my city — which gets represented by only a few seats on the County Council — in direct conflict with the City Council).

In other words, I haven't even had a chance to vote either for or against any of the three major levels of government that can make "official" rules that affect me today. They may be official on pretty headed paper, but they've no more ethical basis than a third world dictator.

However, for the first time today, senior figures in a credible opposition party started talking openly about mass civil disobedience in protest against one of these heavy-handed laws imposed by a government with little popular support. There is yet hope...

nothing new...

[User 956]

Germany is seeking authority to plant secret Trojan viruses into the computers of suspects that could scan files, photos, diagrams and voice recordings, record every keystroke typed

We already have something like that in America. It's called Geek Squad.

Mandated use of Windows?

[whoever57]

Next they will be mandating the use of Windows because their trojan does not work on Macs and Linux. I can just imagine getting a letter: "Dear Suspect, in order to secretly monitor your computer use, we require..."

just have people sign a release

[stoolpigeon]

sign these papers!
what do the papers say?
they say that we have treated you well.
i cannot sign the papers
why not?
you have broken all my fingers

When will Europe learn?

[ObiWanStevobi]

In America, the government just does things like this, hoping it stays a secret. If it is found out, you smear anyone who is upset as anti-American. If there are hearings on it, you get amnesia and claim executive priveledge. Eventaully, a congressman will have sex with something, or somewhere, he isn't supposed to, and everyone forgets.

Really, it's a wonderful system we have here.

Re:When will Europe learn?

[geeknado]

I actually think the fact that this could potentially be done /without/ secrecy more worrisome. Keeping secrets generally implies an acknowledgement by the government that the populace will not be pleased if they discover the reality of the situation. In fact, this has actually been the case. There're wire tapping apologists, certainly, but there're reasons that the Shrub's approval rating is so low, and that program is one of them.

My point is, concealing the facts generally implies that there is some fear of the popular reaction. A country in which the government /doesn't/ fear the backlash from such invasive techniques is a far scarier place to live, IMO.

Re:When will Europe learn?

[NorQue]

My point is, concealing the facts generally implies that there is some fear of the popular reaction.

Remember the reaction on warrantless wiretapping in the USA? Well, me neither, as there was no noteworthy public reaction. At least here in Germany there are public protests against these laws. Latest one got 15000 attendants. And you see the picture of the politician behind the "Bundestrojaner", Wolfgang Schäuble, together with the signature "STASI 2.0" in a lot of places nowadays. http://erklaerung.vorratsdatenspeicherung.de/

Mission Creep is the Worry

[MrSteveSD]

Whenever governments want some new power, the major threat is nearly always "Mission Creep". They start off by saying that the new measures will only apply to terror suspects (or whatever) and things will have to be approved etc. A year or so down the line though, once people are used to it, they extend things a little. Then a while later, they do it again. Before you know it, you can end up with a real big brother situation.

An example of this is the criminal genetic database in the UK. Initially it was only for convicted criminals, but there has been mission creep for years and they now keep huge amounts of genetic data, even from people who are completely innocent.

Fearmongering, anyone?

[gillbates]

A terrorist attack with nuclear weapons is certain. The question is no longer whether such an attack could be carried out by terrorists, but when," Schaeuble told the Frankfurter Allgemeine newspaper in September.[emphasis added]

If the attack is so certain, why haven't we arrested the terrorist(s)? Which is more likely:

• The terrorists have already acquired nuclear weapons, know how to detonate them, and are simply biding their time (Osama on vacation?!), or
• There hasn't been a terrorist nuclear attack because the terrorists haven't been able to acquire a nuclear weapon, don't know how to detonate it, or they're all interned in Guantanamo or elsewhere.

Fearmongering for personal political gain only detracts from the real issues surrounding terrorism. You know, things like:

1. The most successful terrorism investigations have involved regular, old-fashioned police work.
2. The 9/11 terrorists all had valid ID's.
3. The violations of human rights and common dignity brought about in the name of combating terrorism.
4. The inability of torture to actually produce usable intelligence, not to mention the moral and ethical dilemnas surrounding it.
5. The difficulty of stemming the tide of new terrorist recruits when combating terrorism with military tactics.
6. The moral dilemna of shifting the fight over terrorism to third world countries with no prior history of supporting terrorism.
7. The Constitutional dilemna of summarily denying rights to an entire class of people by allowing the Justice Department to arbitrarily reclassify their status from "enemy combatant" to "unlawful combatant".
8. The military dilemna of the United States violation of the Geneva convention in the prosecution of the "War on Terror".
9. The political dilemna of power seizure by the executive branch made possible by informal declarations of war on concepts and ideas, rather than actual enemies.

Instead of responding to goons like this, we should instead focus on the fact that other law enforcement officials have been able to conduct successful terrorism investigations without resorting to devices such as these.