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The New School of Videographers

Provataki writes "This editorial discusses the impending explosion of hobbyist artistic videographers, in the same way that happened with digital photography just a few short years ago. The article claims that it's time camera manufacturers create camcorders equivalent in principle to the cheap DSLRs that we currently enjoy. Some beautiful HD footage, shot by amateurs, is shown too."

18 of 103 comments (clear)

  1. An interesting counterview by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Are digital cameras (and even worse, camcorders), really a good thing? This well-written and thoughtful article argues that the answer is no.

    1. Re:An interesting counterview by Laebshade · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Technology will always have illegal, immoral uses. You can use a DVD to watch the latest G-rated animated movie or some (fake) snuff film (some would argue that such a film is immoral). You can use a gun to defend your house -- at least, in the U.S. -- or it can be used by "terrorists" to shoot your children. Just because it has illegal uses doesn't mean it should be hard or impossible to be obtained for legal purposes.

    2. Re:An interesting counterview by kent_eh · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Or anything really. Why do guns always make their way into "innocent uses" debates. It's a device designed to kill or injure, even when used with the best intentions.

      The list of examples is infinite: Baseball bat, carving knife, wrench, rope, candlestick, piece of pipe.....

      The important point is there are an unlimited number of things which have a beneficial primary use which, in the wrong hands, can be put to nefarious use.
      Including words. Look at the sort of baseless fearmongering use this "well-written and thoughtful" article has put to innocent, harmless words.

      --

      ---
      "I can't complain, but sometimes still do..." Joe Walsh
    3. Re:An interesting counterview by Bemopolis · · Score: 2, Funny

      Or anything really. Why do guns always make their way into "innocent uses" debates. It's a device designed to kill or injure, even when used with the best intentions. The list of examples is infinite: Baseball bat, carving knife, wrench, rope, candlestick, piece of pipe.....
      Guns have a beneficial primary use for their owners: they allow them to pretend that the size of their genitalia are not three sigma off average. This is why big trucks driven by city-dwelling windshield cowboys always have gun racks in the back window. (It's also why a lot of these yahoos blow their toes off when "cleaning their gun". Which they do. A lot.) Without guns, the streets would be awash in lane-spanning H5s with horns that play "Pour Some Sugar On Me" while listening to right-wing talk radio spout off about feminists emasculating our boys by making them watch Dora learn about foreign lands. And no thank you — I lived long enough in Houston thankyouverymuch.

      And speaking as an alumnus of the University of Texas, I am thankful no one has found a way to go to the top of a bell tower and snipe people for two hours with a pair of pliers. Yet. Although, to be fair, Chucky-boy did have a pipe wrench with him...
      --
      "I guess the moral of the story is, don't paint your airship with rocket fuel." -- Addison Bain
    4. Re:An interesting counterview by Fishead · · Score: 2, Funny

      I kinda agree with Shelly. My wife's Grandmother should be classified as a "terrorist" with her digital camera. It used to be that the high cost of film and developing would somewhat limit how much she could terrorize everyone at family functions, but since she got her digital camera a few years ago, along with several large memory sticks, the terror has been unrelenting!

  2. But do they know how to write? by EtoilePB · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This was just on the cusp of being A Potential Big Deal when I was doing my master's in film school (finished in 2005). But honestly, the failure of most amateur and professional narrative (fiction -and- nonfiction) films is not the framing or the filming or the colors or the shots or the material. The failure is that not nearly as many people are as funny or as clever as they think they are. They don't have good senses of timing, of editing, of rhythm, or of narrative structure.

    Over the coming next few years it'll be really interesting to see what *does* happen with more technology and less expense in the hands of amateurs and of professionals and of the "aspiring" class stuck between the two. But for now, YouTube ahoy.

    1. Re:But do they know how to write? by owlnation · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The failure is that not nearly as many people are as funny or as clever as they think they are. They don't have good senses of timing, of editing, of rhythm, or of narrative structure.
      200% true! In fact you can see this effect in professional TV every day. Despite the amount of money spent, and training, if the talent isn't there...

      However, the beauty of this new system is it does allow more cream to rise. (not a pr0n reference, although that is also true) I trained as a videographer and film cameraman over 20 years ago in the UK. It was (and to some degree still is) very difficult to succeed in the UK in this business, unless you knew the right people. Elitist organisations, unions and funding bodies all did their best to keep out those they didn't like.

      To some degree this would be valid, were it not for the fact that the UK film and TV industry in the past 20 years is at best mediocre, and at worst, truly awful. There's very little new ideas, fresh blood and innovation. Most people with talent in the UK leave to go to other countries to find real work. That's what protectionism does for you. UK film and TV does not reflect the best of UK talent, it reflects those that are most successful at networking the right people.

      While 99% of Youtube and similar is total garbage, the digital revolution is the best thing that's happened to those who DO have the talent. It makes things much easier for them to succeed.

      Until they in turn create the new elitists I guess...
    2. Re:But do they know how to write? by Confused · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The same thing was said about Super-8, VHS and any other film format whenever the prices for the recorders dropped and they became affordable.

      In a photograph, it's usually good enough if one gets two out of the framing, lightning and content right for moderate useful results. Even blind chicken manage that from time to time, if they take enough pictures.

      For a video, the same applies but for the whole duration of the clip, and then to add complexity to the matter, the clip needs also some story it tells and the sound should be ok too. The same blind chicken that manages decent pictures will manage a few decent frames in a video clip, but without fail the garbage before and after it will destroy any possible positive impression and the result will be junk. All the time.

      The result will be, that with a lot more effort the usual hobbyist will manage with video only to produce material that scares away the audience. With photographs at least he can select his three good shots and be appreciated.

      This revolution will again fail to happen. Video just takes too much effort to produce results that aren't total crap.

      --

      Confused

    3. Re:But do they know how to write? by ahoehn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Certainly there's some truth there, but digital photography has shown us that more accessibility to "professional" tools generally means more beautiful art being produced by "amateurs". I'm sure if you look at the average flickr submission, there are plenty of awful photographs, but if you look at the photos that others have found most interesting, or head over to photo.net and look at their Top Photos [Warning: Occasional Boobies!], you can see that there is a vast pool of outstanding photographic talent that has been unlocked by digital photography.

      Certainly cheap HD video equipment will lead to a lot of high resolution crap, but I'll bet that a lot of fantastic footage will come out of it as well, along with the tools (a la photo.net) to find that fantastic footage.

      --
      Mod my comments down. It'll be fun.
  3. Great technology, but you still need talent. by tinrobot · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Cheap and good audio equipment won't make you a better musician, cheap and good digital cameras don't make you a better photographer, cheap and good electronic publishing don't make you a better writer. The technology doesn't make the art, but it does open doors to people who have the talent, but not the money.

    The same goes with video. A cheap and good HD camera will not make you a better filmmaker, it will simply allow those with filmmaking talent more opportunity to explore and hone their craft.

    All this technology is great, and it's very democratizing. It allows more people to pursue their creativity, and also offers the truly talented more opportunity to rise to the top.

  4. Re:crash way too much? by linuxpyro · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I use Cinelerra on occasion, and find that it's not too bad... If you're willing to get to know it and learn how not to anger it. After a while you can get the hang of things and find what you can and can't do safely. At that point it's actually not that hard to be productive.

    It's also not very intuitive. Again, once you learn it it's not bad, but for someone who's new to it it can be tough. This was the issue my brother ran into; his PC runs Ubuntu quite well, and when he wanted to edit video I suggested Cinelerra. He used it for a while, but decided to invest in a used Mac just for Final Cut.

    So, it's a powerful program, and worth looking into. This company actually makes turnkey Linux editing systems using Cinelerra, so it has potential.

    --
    Saying "I'll probably get modded down for this" in a post is the best way to get it modded up.
  5. No need to compare to digital photography.... by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I don't think we need look to digital stills to see what will happen with cheaper video equipment -- we need only look at YouTube. There has been no cream floating there. A lot of the popular stuff is purile pap generated by bored teens.

    Ah but Flickr and Photos.com... Flickr and photos nothing. Still photography is much more accessible to the producer, yes, but much less accessible to the consumer. So while photos.com ratings are gathered by a comtemplative specialist audience, YouTube ratings are gathered by pimply kids who pee themselves at mento-rockets, swearing and happy-slapping.

    Face it -- editorial control cannot be replaced with wisdom of the mindless mob.

    HAL.

    --
    Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
    1. Re:No need to compare to digital photography.... by ahoehn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're missing the essential difference between Photo.net and Youtube. Photo.net is dedicated to ranking its content on artistic merit, while Youtube seems to be dedicated to ranking its content on merit of entertainment value.

      Which is, of course, why I said that part of the equation is the development of "the tools to find that fantastic footage."

      --
      Mod my comments down. It'll be fun.
    2. Re:No need to compare to digital photography.... by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, you're missing both the essential difference and the essential similarity.

      Similarity: there is no tool that can find aesthetically pleasing content -- this is a job for humans.

      Difference: the humans on photo sites appreciate quality aesthetics, the humans on video sites appreciate titties and mischief.

      Unless you have a closed club, this will always be the way. Viddler et al are happy just now, but there's a flood of MPEG diahorrea headed there way....

      --
      Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
    3. Re:No need to compare to digital photography.... by g0at · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Similarity: there is no tool that can find aesthetically pleasing content -- this is a job for humans.

      Difference: the humans on photo sites appreciate quality aesthetics, the humans on video sites appreciate titties and mischief. I think both you and your GP are missing another point, to some extent: It's [relatively] easy to shoot a good still photo, and post it. It takes a *lot more* effort (in terms of man-hours) to create a good film. Ergo, we'll typically find a proportionately larger amount of good still photography, compared with well-cut moving pictures.

      Yeah, I'm both an amateur still photographer and film (well, video) editor.

      b

  6. The quick answer? No. by Ralph+Spoilsport · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Why?

    A variety of reasons:

    1. the most important part of a video is? The Audio. You can take something that was shot on a fischer-price pixelvision camera, and if you finesse the audio - it can "look" awesome. Audio matters in a first rank kind of way.

    1. the other most important part of a video is? Storytelling. If it doesn't tell a compelling story, or an interesting story in a compelling manner, nobody gives a flying fuck. The wasteland of 20th century "experimental" cinema is proof. Andy Warhol did a 24 hour film of the Empire state building, and it was a pointless waste of filmic Koolaid that the avant garde sucked right down. Kubrick, Wenders, Herzog, and even into documentary filmmaking - the list is long - and it all proves one thing: Storytelling matters, and is tied with Sound for #1 importance.

    2. Editing. Editing is #2, and it's a close 2.Editing won't fix a broken story, and it won't make something sound better. But it can take a mediocre story and make it more compelling. So editing is #2.

    3. Acting. Assuming one is not doing straight nature documentary, Acting is required. There are a variety of vagaries around this - charisma is hard to pin down. But it is necessary, if one is going to make a compelling video or film.

    4. Lighting. Lighting DOES matter, but it can be "worked" - sunlight is fine, if variable - but it helps to have a light bounce around to add some clarity and reduce shadows a bit. As a consequence, Lighting is a definite 4th. It doesn't usually break something, but it can make something.

    5. Catering. If you have a crew that consists of someone other than yourself, FEED THEM. Seriously.A well fed crew and actors are a happier bunch who can do good work. If everyone is scampering off to feed themselves, you lose control of the set, esp. in an amateur / non-union production.

    So - ALL of these things exist outside of the HD format, and they exist solely in the field of pre and post production. So: now we come to amateur productions in HD:

    The sound? Sucks - built in camera microphone. Arf. You can hear the camera whirring. It's tinny and lame.

    Story? What story? Cat poops on bed! Ewwww! end of story. that's a great use of technology. Or: the "avant garde" film maker who sits and shakes the camera while a naked woman reads the phone book. Great. That's something I'll remember forever. After I beat the crap out of the filmmaker for wasting 10 minutes of my life.

    Acting? My sister was an understudy for her high school production of 1776! She's GREAT! Not.

    Lighting? Hey - those CFLs are GREAT!

    etc. etc. etc. Putting ever higher technology in the hands of citizens does NOT guarantee higher quality work, except in the narrow and meaningless sense of it being in some precise and lovely format that is de facto to the technology itself.

    It's not bad that they have access to the tech, it's just no promise of quality.

    RS

    --
    Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
    1. Re:The quick answer? No. by talexb · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Mod parent up.

      Sound is essential to a great production. I can remember in more difficult times watching a rented movie on a fourteen inch TV, but with stereo sound going to a great set of speakers. (It was a phenomenal film called Delicatessan.) The presentation was terrific, and you completely forgot that the screen was tiny -- compared to the 32 inch screen I watch now.

      The sound and the pictures are supposed to support each other -- if there's clearly a mismatch, it's painful to watch and listen. If there's a really good, it becomes hypnotizing -- think Koyanniqatski (mis-spelled, I'm sure).

  7. Re:Funny that summary advocates DSLR camcorders... by dangitman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think you're missing the point. It's not about having "SLR" video cameras. It's about having affordable HD video cameras in a similar segment to the affordable still digital cameras we have now. You can get inexpensive digital SLRs that allow full manual control, interchangeable lenses and excellent ergonomics. However, if you want an affordable digital video camera, you are stuck with a totally "integrated" device that you can't change the lenses on, has shitty ergonomics, and any manual controls (if present) are accessed through lame touch-screen menus. If you want a video camera that you have much control over, you have to fork out big bucks for professional models.

    In still photography, you have these affordable SLRs that are modular (at least in terms of lenses) and give you total manual control. Of course, you can buy a top-of-the-line pro camera like the Nikon D3 - but they usually don't offer that much more than the inexpensive ones. For 99% of photographers, a Nikon D40 or D70 does the job fine. Most of the difference comes from the quality of the lens (and photographer), anyway. You can use the same lens on a cheap DSLR, or an expensive one and get much the same results. But if you want a decent lens on the video camera, it's hard to get. You are usually stuck with the built-in piece of crap. This is where the video camera companies are falling behind. They charge a ridiculous premium for things like interchangeable lenses, which is much higher than the cost differential of manufacturing it.

    the result is that a video camera is a comparatively bad investment. When your DLSR body becomes obsolete, you can still use your nice collection of lenses. When your digital video camera dies or becomes obsolete, you have to chuck the whole thing.

    --
    ... and then they built the supercollider.