Aqua Teen Art 'Terrorist' Describes His Ordeal

destinyland writes "Boston police arrested artist 'Zebbler' for installing L.E.D. devices that promoted Aqua Teen Hunger Force (after police mistook them for bombs). He's finally shared the real behind-the-scenes story about his arrest and release. He describes his interrogation ('My interrogator gave me nothing but carrots to eat') and remembers a surreal exchange with a police officer. ('My daughter is a huge fan of you ... So, did you really mean to blow up Boston?') Now his latest project is a cool high-definition/surround sound installation for an event called RIP.MIX.BURN.BAM.PFA."

Comments

Hmm...

[FF8Jake]

Considering the amount of explosions in ATHF, I consider the threat to be completely valid. Remember everyone, terrorists clearly mark the bombs with flashing lights, to be widely apparent to everyone, so that they have a chance to observe the bomb before it explodes.

Re:Hmm...

[Anonymous Coward]

Please fucking tell me you are joking...

Re:Hmm...

[FredFredrickson]

Just because it alarmed the public, didn't mean he knew it'd happen. I think intent should have a lot to do with things. Anyway, people are just retarded. I was in Boston that day. I wish I had seen it!

Re:Hmm...

[stonedcat]

Right because we all know that just went right over your head...
I mean if you were completely for cereal you would have posted on that 3 digit UID that you bought on ebay last month.

Re:Hmm...

[FF8Jake]

I am saddened, my sarcasm has been lost upon you.
 
Perhaps I should cover my sarcasm in lights in the shape of ATHF characters.

Re:Hmm...

[nxsty]

Indeed: http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/f/f1/Terrorist_Err.PNG

Re:Hmm...

[Anonymous Coward]

I bet you'd use circuit boards and wires while constructing your ATHF character shaped light construct. Burn in hell, terrorist bastard!

Re:Hmm...

[0xygen]

Mislabelled, the larger green one is Ignignokt, Err is the smaller pink one!
But still, a great image - thanks!

Re:Hmm...

[TapeCutter]

Any ideas what the writing says?

Re:Hmm...

[Hal_Porter]

"Foolish Infidels, this is actually a bomb disguised as a hip PR stunt"

Re:Hmm...

[pcgabe]

It's funny you mention that. We had a similar incident not too long ago at my university.

The cleaning staff for the computer/engineering building saw some creepy guy going through the building at 5:30am, way earlier than people normally show up in the morning. They didn't really think anything of it, until they got to the third floor.

On the third floor, displayed in the window of one of the offices, was a timer. And it was counting. Up.

Wires could be seen coming off of it, but nobody could tell where they went.

Campus security was called, the police were called, bomb-sniffing dogs were called in, the building was shut down.

It turned out (of course) to be just a diagnostic display. The "wires" leading away from the device went up to a curtain rod. They were holding it up.

The funny thing was, it had been there for weeks. The cleaning crew must have seen it, but they didn't remember it being there. And why was it counting UP and not DOWN? We've all seen 24, we know which way timers are supposed to go.

But in an outbreak of common sense, nobody was charged with a "hoax", nobody was arrested, and nobody is in jail. The cleaning crew made a mistake (and apologized later!), and that was the end of that.

And thank goodness, because that creepy guy was ME!

Re:Hmm...

[Dr. Cody]

So, did you really mean to blow up your university?

Re:Hmm...

[GooberToo]

According to most slashdotters, unless it were to actually explode then your concerns are completely invalid and unwarranted. Furthermore, any official which takes actions to address a legitimate concern should be fired.

When posting on slashdot you need to remember the following rules:
1. If it didn't explode, it's not a bomb - including explosives which didn't explode.
2. Caring for public safety is not your job. Your job is to complain about those that keep you safe.
3. Terrorists don't exists. Bombs have never been exploded in terrorists actions on U.S. soil or any other country for that matter. Therefore, anyone who thinks they have found a bomb is worse than those supposed terrorists.
4. The less you actually know about laws, law enforcement, bombs, bomb tactics, terrorists, and suicide bombers, the more vocal you should be to complain and condemn those that do know. Failure to follow this rule means you're a pooh-pooh-head and your karma will be negatively effected accordingly.

Let the karma bombings begin...

Re:Hmm...

[mshomphe]

The goal of terrorism is to effect change in a society through fear. Every time you and your fraidy-cat buddies jumps because something reminds you of a crappy episode of 24 you give legitimacy to those tactics. Not only that, you encourage the subversion of the necessary civil liberties inherent to the United States by government forces. Instead of plotzing every time we see some unfamiliar blinkenlightz, we should be thinking about root causes. All the security in the world is not worth the price of my freedom. I'm surprised you don't feel the same way.

Re:Hmm...

[everphilski]

have you seen the Quad Laser? :)

"There is no escape" "Yeah!" "OH SHIT! It's going backwards!"

Re:Hmm...

[xtracto]

Every time you and your fraidy-cat buddies jumps because something reminds you of a crappy episode of 24 you give legitimacy to those tactics

This means that the terrorists have already won in their "war"... or at least they have succeeded in their plans. The objective of terrorism is not to kill millions of people, I am sure the terrorists (whomever they were, domestics or internationals) who crashed the planes did not imagined that the towers would collapse!

But now, they do not have to do anything, at least not for quite some time because because the population already lives in a fear state and the government is chain-reacting by removing freedom.

Re:Hmm...

[Anonymous Coward]

I would think that it would count up as the alarm would be set to go off at a certain time and therefore blow up the explosives when that happens.

Re:Hmm...

[hedwards]

I think this is a good example of how things should work. Ideally a strange device like that ought to be reported if there is a genuine concern about it. I suppose it could have hypothetically been a poorly designed bomb.

But reporting the device really shouldn't automatically trigger anything beyond a short investigation,unless there are explosives found, or further evidence that it was intended to be dangerous.

Just because in the case of the article, people from Boston are that ignorant overall and are trying to overcompensate out of a guilt for the lax security at their airport, doesn't mean that anybody needed to be charged. If anything this incident proves that the terrorists don't actually need to get proper terrorism supplies, they can just hook up some Christmas tree lights to a box with a countdown timer, and have our authorities whip everybody up into a panic until we destroy ourselves.

But, I think that pretty much everybody knows that the reason for the community service was that the prosecutor's office and police were horribly embarrassed by coming off so dumb. I don't think that anybody out there honestly believes that community service would be a reasonable sentence for somebody that was trying to hoax the city, its just a slap on the wrist so that it looks like they were tough on crime.

Re:Hmm...

[Anonymous Coward]

On the third floor, displayed in the window of one of the offices, was a timer. And it was counting. Up.

For future reference, timers that count up are commonly referred to as "clocks".

Re:Hmm...

[RedBear]

that creepy guy was ME!

And I'm sure you would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for those meddling janitors!

Rooby-rooby-rooooo!

Re:Hmm...

[Ichinisan]

"That day...?" The pieces had been there for more than a week before the incident was sparked. The absurdity of mass hysteria never fails to entertain!

Re:Hmm...

[stephanruby]

The goal of our government is to effect change in a society through fear...

Re:Hmm...

[Elrond, Duke of URL]

Hey, don't kid yourself now. If a group of terrorists were somehow able to kill millions of people, you can bet they would be dancing in the streets.

Of course, since a lot of fundamentalist groups consider dancing to be verboten, those terrorists would probably be killed by another group of terrorists...

Re:Hmm...

[pipingguy]

Good ending to the story!

Re:Hmm...

[GooberToo]

Every time you and your fraidy-cat buddies jumps
4. The less you actually know about laws, law enforcement, bombs, bomb tactics, terrorists, and suicide bombers, the more vocal you should be to complain and condemn those that do know. Failure to follow this rule means you're a pooh-pooh-head and your karma will be negatively effected accordingly.

I see you are a subscriber to option #4.

Believe it or not, law enforcement reacted to bomb threats all the time, before 9/11. The only difference between then and now is people like you that have no idea what you're talking about and now want to punish law enforcement for properly and professionally doing their job. And oh ya, the threat is actually higher.

In other words, your denial and refusal to admit bad things happen in the world, long before 9/11 was captured on film, means you are unfit to comment let alone do so publicly. Worse, YOU are the one giving in to the terrorists, afraid people doing their job means you might have to face the world.

Guess what, the world is a scary place and has been long before 9/11.

Boo! It's time to wake up. And you probably wonder why GW spits on the constitution to do his job? Because people like you ensure he can't get the job done any other way. Do I support him? No. Can I explain it? Yes. The answer is simple; people like you.

Re:Hmm...

[GooberToo]

The goal of terrorism is to effect change in a society through fear.

Agreed! But most people have no idea what that means. Like it or not, the change in this discussion means NOT following up on bomb threats and scares. Law enforcement have ALWAYS been required to check out and deal with bomb threats and treat the situation seriously. Now, post 9/11, ignorance prevails on the street. The guy on the street now screams like children that the terrorist have won because law enforcement is doing the same job they have always done, only with better tools now (don't take that statement far). And they scream out of fear, pure and simple. In other words, the only people the terrorists can claim victory over are the ignorant masses which want to publicly slam those that know or those that act; as those that act have always done.

Re:Hmm...

[orclevegam]

Believe it or not, law enforcement reacted to bomb threats all the time, before 9/11. The only difference between then and now is people like you that have no idea what you're talking about and now want to punish law enforcement for properly and professionally doing their job. Yes, they used to react to bomb threats, but this was not a bomb threat! No one called up and said they were going to blow anything up, and anyone could look at these things and at least think it was likely it wasn't a bomb. The point is, since we've gone on this whole 'OMG TERRISTS!!!' kick everyone has lost all common sense. If it has wires and it looks homemade it MUST BE A BOMB!!! Quick, find the person responsible and execute them, they're terrorists! The proper response should have been to send the bomb squad out to look one of these things over, and after they examined it, if they had even an ounce of training they would know there was no threat from these devices. To take any action at all after that beyond perhaps suggesting to the guy that planted them that he might want to mention to the police that he's putting these things up prior to doing so is pure idiocy. He most certainly should not have been charged with anything.

Re:Hmm...

[GooberToo]

I see you've lost all context. Step back. Explosives already had gone off in the streets. This qualifies as something close. Logic DEMANDS you treat it as a bomb threat. Any other response is moronic...proving the terrorists have one...and in fact empowering them to continue to instill fear in people like you.

A story worthy of Franz Kafka.

[Z00L00K]

It is so bizarre and still indicates the rigidness of the public service to go so over the edge that it can only be fully described as a work of surrealistic art.

Re:A story worthy of Franz Kafka.

[susano_otter]

It is so bizarre and still indicates the rigidness of the public service to go so over the edge that it can only be fully described as a work of surrealistic art.

On the other hand, how do we know his account is true, and not a fictional work of surrealistic art? If it's truly Kafkaesque, there's at least the possibility it's fiction.

let me be the frost to sya

[Rotund Prickpull]

Let me be the first to say: what a silly, pretentions little cockend this guy is.

i voted for this in the firehose (offtopic)

[d34thm0nk3y]

I found this article interesting in the firehose and voted it up. The thing is, since they have to give the subscribers their head-start, I have already lost interest...

I might have had a non-offtopic comment a couple of hours ago.

Re:i voted for this in the firehose (offtopic)

[d34thm0nk3y]

I agree that it is offtopic, it is in the subject and body. But, it has been almost an hour since the story was posted and there are 11 comments. Maybe we can get into the meta discussion a bit since nobody is interested this late??

Why does ...

[Carpe PM]

this whole story remind me of my favorite line from ATHF - "Welcome to this horse's anus!"

What are the police really like?

[whoever57]

Over the past few years, I have come to consider the police as not-too-intelligent bullies. Actions reported can only be explained by a lack of rational thought (in favor of blindly following rules, or blind over-reaction), yet this extract from the article makes one rethink that assessment:

I cooperated fully -- since I had nothing to hide -- but at times it was uncanny as to how convincing he was. He made me want to tell him my deepest secrets -- a genuinely weird feeling. I had to snap out of it a few times.

It is required in the UK for recordings to be made of all interrogations. Why is this not the case in the US? If the police are following the rules, they would have nothing to hide, would they?

Re:What are the police really like?

[QuantumG]

hehe, the recordings are for use against you. If the recording records a police officer beating you or insulting your heritage such that you consider beating on him, that tape will just disappear. If the police ask you where you were at the time of the murder and you tell them a perfect alibi that tape will disappear and when you get to court they will say "if he had an alibi, why didn't he tell us during interrogation?" and imply that you got someone to lie for you.

Re:What are the police really like?

[snl2587]

For many interrogations they do record in the US, but not for anything that falls under the broad blanket of "terrorism".

But what I found really interesting about this particular event is how no one on the police force seemed to realize that they weren't bombs. I don't even watch the show and I could tell they were a cartoon.

Re:What are the police really like?

[Anonymous Coward]

Watch Law & Order. It's an American crime drama that follows the police through the investigation to interrogation.

Now, realize that this is a TV show and that they're putting the best possible spin on the way the cops behave. Watch the tactics they use. Realize that these are fictional tactics, spun in the best way possible.

It's really quite scary. Americans EXPECT their police to act that way! They glorify it in their media!

Another fun, more recent example was some video I saw of a bunch of Boston police officers. It was night, and there was a large line of police officers in riot gear. Some were on horses. I was trying to figure out what was happening in Boston that would justify such a police response.

The answer? The local baseball team had won the baseball championship. The police response was against fans, celebrating the victory in the streets. The Boston response to people celebrating a sporting victory is to call out the riot police. According to the reporter, the last time something like this happened, the Boston police actually killed a fan, using a "less than lethal" weapon that proved not to live up to its name.

This was just after the incident where the Boston police were asking to be praised for their restraint in not immediately killing the MIT student with the LEDs on her shirt. Seriously, they held press conferences where they were saying what a great thing it was that they didn't just shoot her immediately.

The more I learn about Boston, the more I learn I never want to go anywhere near it.

Re:What are the police really like?

[UltimateRobotLover]

Not sure if you were joking, but in the UK two tapes are recorded and you are given the opportunity to take one at random, thus avoiding this problem.

Re:What are the police really like?

[pembo13]

Why in the world would the police want that? I'm sure the good cops might not mind it, but that police as a whole.... I don't see that getting through.

Re:What are the police really like?

[CarpetShark]

Over the past few years, I have come to consider the police as not-too-intelligent bullies.

I used to have a lot of respect for the police. Then I actually had to try to reason with one. Now, I share that exact same assessment.

Re:What are the police really like?

[khchung]

It is required in the UK for recordings to be made of all interrogations. Why is this not the case in the US? If the police are following the rules, they would have nothing to hide, would they? Two words: National security

No matter if it actually has any real or imagined security impact.

Re:What are the police really like?

[KlaymenDK]

If the police are following the rules, they would have nothing to hide, would they? That is a very interesting point -- not least in light of the popularity of the government's "if you have nothing to hide, we're sure you won't mind us monitoring your every move" argumentation. Tit for tat, one might say.

Re:What are the police really like?

[Anonymous Coward]

In the USA, whether you are tape recorded or not depends on the jurisdiction.

In some states, all interrogations are to be video recorded. In the past, this has protected the innocent who were psychologically tormented into giving up their rights and making false statements to state and local law enforcement.

Usually, in the USA, someone undergoing an interrogation can ask to speak to a lawyer. An accused terrorist, on the other hand, should tell the truth because a terrorist might not have much legal protection at times.

Re:What are the police really like?

[Sique]

An accused terrorist, on the other hand, should tell the truth because a terrorist might not have much legal protection at times. ... which in turn gives the interrogator the right to torture^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hspecially interrogate the accused terrorist or hand him over to a government that has more experience at this, because the fucking terrorist refuses to acknowledge that he in fact is one.

Re:What are the police really like?

[TapeCutter]

Sure these things happen from time to time but cops and judges are simply paid control freaks that are obstensibly hired to stop us from living in anarchy, worst case senario is something like Blackwater or the SS (best case is a fantasy world where we are all just nice to each other).

From 50yrs of life experience I know that cops make all sorts of threats but the actions you describe are not a routine occurence here in Australia. If you want to to be treated with respect then be as polite and firm with them about your rights as you expect them to be when doing their job. Of course this assumes you know your rights and are smart enough to have a lawyer back you up.

So what police state are you living in?

Re:What are the police really like?

[renoX]

Hmm, remind me how long can the police hold someone in UK?

If memory serves, it was something like two weeks if they suspect you of terrorism, two weeks is a very long time, I wouldn't be surprised that in two weeks the police can make you sign whatever they like..

Re:What are the police really like?

[TapeCutter]

OTOH: It is not your average cop that is doing that sort of thing, for the most part terrorist (such as Hicks) are political prisoners being used by exjudicial forces to "send a message". Your average cop recives a "bomb threat", he calls the bomb squad and clears the area, seems like (inconvienient) common sense to me.

The rest of the bullshit is simply paper-work and politics to cover the fact that "dob in a terrorist" schemes do nothing except scare the shit out the general population, granted there may be good reason to be scared of the spooks living in legal shadows but IMHO it's recognised by the general population as the politics of fear, meaning the western world is a long way from becoming a police state.

Re:What are the police really like?

[purple_cobra]

It's 28 days, and the bloody fools want to double it; that's right 56 days in jail for being a *suspect*, during which time you can't - to my knowledge - contact anyone except, perhaps, a legal representative. And that representative cannot tell anyone where you are or why you're not around.
I feel safer already!

Re:What are the police really like?

[cheater512]

He's in the United States of America. What you said doesn't apply there. :)

(From another Aussie)

Re:What are the police really like?

[meringuoid]

Another fun, more recent example was some video I saw of a bunch of Boston police officers. It was night, and there was a large line of police officers in riot gear. Some were on horses. I was trying to figure out what was happening in Boston that would justify such a police response. The answer? The local baseball team had won the baseball championship. The police response was against fans, celebrating the victory in the streets. The Boston response to people celebrating a sporting victory is to call out the riot police.

I don't know what American baseball fans are like, but in the UK, well... go to any Premiership football match and there are mounted police everywhere. Riot gear is unusual; they're mostly there for crowd control. Mostly. Go to a major game - let's say, oh... Liverpool vs Manchester United - and there'll be a serious police presence. Wherever you have tens of thousands of people in one place where emotions run high and a great deal of beer has been drunk, there's a danger of violence. And that's today; back in the eighties, football violence was almost expected.

Re:What are the police really like?

[meringuoid]

Hmm, remind me how long can the police hold someone in UK? If memory serves, it was something like two weeks if they suspect you of terrorism, two weeks is a very long time, I wouldn't be surprised that in two weeks the police can make you sign whatever they like...

It used to be that in England they'd keep you for seven long days; God help you if ever you're caught on these shores, though, because it's been extended to 28 days. Apparently they can't always extract a confession in this time, though, because they want to extend the period of internment to three months.

Re:What are the police really like?

[Anonymous Coward]

Good thing it's not the police making the laws, eh?

Re:What are the police really like?

[QuantumG]

He's in the United States of America. Who? Me? I'm not in the USA. Not this week, at any rate.

Re:What are the police really like?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah but football hooliganism, for some reason, is mostly an English/European phenomenon, American baseball or other sports don't seem to be affected by it that much. There have the odd fist fights but not the organized group hooliganism. It makes me ashamed of being European.

Re:What are the police really like?

[Anonymous Coward]

Every single police officer in The Commonwealth of Massachusetts falls into one of two categories:

1.> Playground bullies who never grew up and became police officers in order to retain the control they had on the playground in elementary school.

2.> Victims of playground bullies who became police officers to gain the control they never had on the playground and exact revenge on society for allowing them to be victims.

I'm not sure which type is worse, but there are ZERO police officers in Massachusetts who are fit to hold the power given to the police.

They constantly lie to, and use horrible psychological attacks on, people they are questioning. Often, this horrific behavior on their part extends to innocent bystanders who witnessed events, and even victims.

The worst terrorists in the US are the police.

Re:What are the police really like?

[Lunarsight]

Over the past few years, I have come to consider the police as not-too-intelligent bullies. Actions reported can only be explained by a lack of rational thought (in favor of blindly following rules, or blind over-reaction), yet this extract from the article makes one rethink that assessment: I don't think it was the Boston police being moronic, in this case. I think it was the Boston and/or MA government that pushed this along. If I remember correctly, the police and bomb squad people considered it a waste of time, especially after seeing that the first device was little more than some elaborate lite-brite-inspired gizmo.

Re:What are the police really like?

[Anonymous Coward]

It is required in the UK for recordings to be made of all interrogations. Why is this not the case in the US? If the police are following the rules, they would have nothing to hide, would they?

In the U.S., the police are rarely, if ever, following the rules. We tolerate it because, frankly, we have no choice. And it actually was this way well before 9/11.

Re:What are the police really like?

[Anonymous Coward]

It is required in the UK for recordings to be made of all interrogations. Why is this not the case in the US? If the police are following the rules, they would have nothing to hide, would they?

In the USA, before being interrogated, a person must be informed of their "Miranda" rights. The police must recite an precisely worded phrase informing the individual they have a right to a lawyer being present before answering any questions, other than their name and address.

If that individual asks for a lawyer, all questioning stops until legal counsel is present.

You may not like the police, but when you are assaulted, mugged, or your home is broken into and your stuff stolen or your family terrorized, tell me: who will you call?

Re:What are the police really like?

[Nephilium]

And for those in the U.S.... You should know what your rights are...

Nephilium

Re:What are the police really like?

[Nephilium]

The answer? The local baseball team had won the baseball championship. The police response was against fans, celebrating the victory in the streets. The Boston response to people celebrating a sporting victory is to call out the riot police. According to the reporter, the last time something like this happened, the Boston police actually killed a fan, using a "less than lethal" weapon that proved not to live up to its name.

You mean to prevent stuff like the riots in Detroit when the Pistons won the championship? Or the flaming mattresses in Columbus when OSU won?

Nephilium

Re:What are the police really like?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is one small reason I like ice hockey as a North American. I'd rather watch and participate in fights on the ice rather than on the streets...

Re:What are the police really like?

[krazytekn0]

Over the past few years, I have come to consider the police as not-too-intelligent bullies.
This is simply the logical result of telling people you're gonna pay them money to boss people around and arrest people, and training is only 9 months! No degree / diploma required!

Re:What are the police really like?

[unlametheweak]

For many interrogations they do record in the US, but not for anything that falls under the broad blanket of "terrorism". If you are suspected of being a terrorist in the US, then they (likely) won't interrogate you in the US
(i.e. http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=7292).
They will send you elsewhere thus avoiding scrutiny. In these cases they do not allow video taping (certainly not for the suspects protection). In Abu Ghraib http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_prisoner_abuse the army specifically ordered all pictures and videos to be turned in, never to be seen again (this was after the initial torture pictures got published of course).

They will even send you to places like Syria
(i.e. http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A522-2003Nov4).
"the enemy of my enemy is my friend" seems to be an unofficial US policy. Yes just like corporations, the US government outsources some of its dirtiest jobs to get around domestic rules.

Re:What are the police really like?

[Elsapotk421]

i firsthand have seen the violence go off at a football match here in italy. After a match between catania and palermo, I believe, they actually killed a police officer in the aftermath of the game. Some people just take it WAY too far.

Re:What are the police really like?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, it's true, they're stupid!
But it doesn't stop at the police. I once saw a driver backup in a rotary traffic circle because they missed their exit. I moved to New Hampshire to get the hell out of mASSHOLEchuesetts. It's unfortunate that technology companies have planted in the State of Stupidity. If the US east coast were a bathroom, Boston is where they'd put the urinal.

From a former resident.

Re:What are the police really like?

[modecx]

Another fun, more recent example was some video I saw of a bunch of Boston police officers. It was night, and there was a large line of police officers in riot gear. Some were on horses. I was trying to figure out what was happening in Boston that would justify such a police response.

The answer? The local baseball team had won the baseball championship. The police response was against fans, celebrating the victory in the streets. The Boston response to people celebrating a sporting victory is to call out the riot police. According to the reporter, the last time something like this happened, the Boston police actually killed a fan, using a "less than lethal" weapon that proved not to live up to its name.

Given the way Bostonians are likely to behave after having the Red Sox win the World Series, I think having a machine gun emplacement overlooking the crowd might also be an appropriate response. Seriously, though: the police are there to do their job: to protect and serve. They're there in riot gear to protect life and property against damage from the drunken fuckheads who are there to cause problems.

Let's also not forget that Boston has been known for its fair share of riots throughout the years. Ask the British: two Boston riots led to events which helped start the American Revolutionary War!

Re:What are the police really like?

[schon]

"the enemy of my enemy is my friend" seems to be an unofficial US policy Except when that enemy has lots of oil. Then you forget all about the real enemy and make up excuses to invade.

Re:What are the police really like?

[Anonymous Coward]

9 months? you are kidding. it is 6 weeks in some jurisdictions. it is one of the few professions that does not require any sort of professional licensing. my accountant requires more education.

Re:What are the police really like?

[Mad-cat]

I blame the paramilitary and militaristic mentality in most police forces. In fact, I would go so far as to say I don't even like the term "police force."

I'm a police officer in Florida. There are several principles I follow which have resulted in my getting only two complaints against me in the past two years.

1. I'm a peace officer, not a law enforcement officer. My goal is the peaceful resolution of conflict, using the law to do so.
2. You cannot insult me. I take offense at nothing while on the job.
3. I will never threaten to arrest someone: I will only warn them that they can be arrested for their actions and will give them several options for peacefully resolving the issue.
4. I will always explain my reasons behind my actions to anyone who asks, so long as safety permits.
5. I will never blindly follow the rules.
6. When in doubt, ask myself if I could talk with my family about what I was about to do to someone without feeling ashamed.

The military mindset is POISON to the civilian police service. If I could do only one thing to improve police relations with the community and performance levels, I would eliminate everything remotely resembling the military. No sergeants, no lieutenants, no military-looking uniforms. Cops should look, think, and act like the civilians they are.

Re:What are the police really like?

[joe 155]

I'm not 100% sure about the new laws because I haven't studied law since they brought them in but the way it used to work is they could only stop you contacting members of your family to explain the situation if they have reasonable suspicion that this will directly lead to the people you will contact destroying evidence (or carrying out other crimes). They need to convince a magistrait (who are just a members of the public) of this and then it is (or at least was) only for a limited time (it was about 2 days). I think it would be a lot harder to do this then you think, and it certainly isn't practical as a "weapon"

I don't really like the situation that much either - but the way to correct it is to get involved and volunteer to be a magistrait.

Re:What are the police really like?

[Anonymous Coward]

"The military mindset is POISON"

Removed superfluous (but well written) explanatory text.

Re:What are the police really like?

[Theaetetus]

You seem to be a reasonable and responsible officer. You've recognized that the public has a growing dislike and distrust for your profession. Other than the excellent principles you stated that you follow, what are you doing to spread them further and repair the damage caused by your colleagues?

Re:What are the police really like?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow. That is genuinely heartwarming.

Re:What are the police really like?

[Anonymous Coward]

Please stop signing your posts. We can all see your username already.

Nephilium

Re:What are the police really like?

[Anonymous Coward]

>>when you are assaulted, mugged, or your home is broken into and your stuff stolen or your family terrorized

Sounds like typical police behaviour to me.

Re:What are the police really like?

[Cederic]

The law was changed; they can hold you pretty much incommunicado for 28 days, and yesm they are trying to extend that (despite admitteding outright that there's no actual justification for doing so).

My mother's a magistrate. She's confirmed a few of my prejudices about them :(

Re:What are the police really like?

[cayenne8]

"I don't know what American baseball fans are like, but in the UK, well... go to any Premiership football match and there are mounted police everywhere. Riot gear is unusual; they're mostly there for crowd control. Mostly. Go to a major game - let's say, oh... Liverpool vs Manchester United - and there'll be a serious police presence. Wherever you have tens of thousands of people in one place where emotions run high and a great deal of beer has been drunk, there's a danger of violence. And that's today; back in the eighties, football violence was almost expected."

I dunno. I've tried watching soccer....and I just can't see how watching that game would whip anyone into such a 'frenzy'. It just seems a bit boring to me, and I've really tried to watch and get into it.

I supposed the EU's say the same thing about American football...I guess it is what you grow up with....

Re:What are the police really like?

[rickwood]

God bless you, officer. I wish more police officers understood this as well as you do.

Re:What are the police really like?

[pikakilla]

Its a crying shame that more officers do not mimic you. I hope you are trying to spread this message throughout the force.

Re:What are the police really like?

[Anonymous Coward]

hokay, see what you did there ? let me rephrase that last line for you. "A person ACCUSED OF TERRORIST OFFENCES, on the other hand, should tell the truth because a person ACCUSED OF TERRORIST OFFENCES might not have much legal protection at times". Why not ? "accused terrorist" ? What does that even mean ? Of course ! they WERE terrorists all along ! Thankfully the brave members of the police force finally managed to 'accuse' them of it ! NEWS-FLASH : ACCUSATION IS NOT GUILT ! REAL LIFE IS NOT CSI MIAMI !

Re:What are the police really like?

[fredklein]

when you are assaulted, mugged, or your home is broken into and your stuff stolen or your family terrorized, tell me: who will you call?

Yes, please- someone tell me who I call when the police do this?

Re:What are the police really like?

[Fred_A]

when you are assaulted, mugged, or your home is broken into and your stuff stolen or your family terrorized, tell me: who will you call?

Yes, please- someone tell me who I call when the police do this? Aqua Teen Hunger Force (whatever that is) apparently. They seem to make both the police and the populace awfully scared.

Re:What are the police really like?

[Fulcrum of Evil]

What sort of message do you want to send to Achmed the Shepherd? That's the sort of guy we have locked up in gitmo.

Re:What are the police really like?

[Fulcrum of Evil]

We need more cops like you.

Re:What are the police really like?

[Sabriel]

Other than...? If only more of our nations' leaders and public officials would do as much as this officer has: set a good example for others. :(

Re:What are the police really like?

[pipingguy]

VERY well-said, Mad-cat. A recent event involving the RCMP's inappropriate behaviour is getting a lot of attention these days.

FOUR(!) fit-for-service officers needed to use a Taser against one unruly individual? Were they afraid of getting their facial make-up smeared in an actual physical confrontation?

The RCMP *must* apologize (and compensate) for this sad event or risk losing worldwide respect.

Re:What are the police really like?

[TapeCutter]

Don't get me wrong, I realise Hicks is Australia's most famous political prisoner. He spent 5yrs in Gitmo before they created a law and applied it retrospectively. They cracked the poor bastard and got him to plead guilty, basically in order to "prove" our illustrious leaders never make mistakes. Iraq's foriegn minister was realeased before Hicks was for christ sake!!! Kudo's to his military appointed defence attorney, he tried his best to get Australian politicians to stand up for a citizen and has paid the price!

But that is the difference I am trying to emphasise, normal cops in a western democracy are a mixture of bullies and saints but there is a legal process that is followed to the letter most of the time. Achmed the Shepard probably has hundreds of relatives, one of whom may have been a real "terrorist". The people who have arrested Achmed are above the law (in fact here in Oz they 'are' the law since it's the federal AG & the PM who oversea (and IMHO organise) this sort of CRIMINAL behaviour. The more the politicans get away with it the more likely the practise will seep in to the domestic police, but it's a long way from that at the moment.

Achmed the Shepard's rocket making cousin: What I don't understand is why does the west sweep Isreal's atrocities under the carpet and empasise the (smaller scale) atrocities of their vastly weaker opponents? Why does the west refuse to talk to the democratically elected government of the palestinians (ie: Hamas)? How can Hezzbolla[sic] be considered terrorists when the vast majority of Lebbanon support them? - I'm too old for jewish conspiracy theories, my best guess is it's because of the 200 odd nukes Isreal has stashed away somewhere.

Re:What are the police really like?

[TapeCutter]

With all that ranting I forgot the question :o

I'd like to hear what Achmed has to say rather than tell him what to do.

Unfortunately a lot of powerfull people want to silence Achmed the moment he gets up to speak (think of the ruckus over ImADinnerJacket's speech at princeton). Behaviour like this is embeded in those who seek power or revenge, it has been since our possum like ancestors first started forming territorial gangs. Belive it or not compared to just about any other time or place in history, post WW2 western society has been remarkably peacefull and prosperous.

The question is - did the rest of the world pay for our prosperity and peace? Now that we all realise we are all hurtling through space on the same over-crowded dirtball, are we the 4th riech and the rest of the world is our polluted concentration camp turning out transplantable kidneys and drinkable coffee? - It's sunset here going for a walk on the beach - sadly life is too short for me to REALLY care about Achmed.

Re:What are the police really like?

[The_mad_linguist]

You may not like the police, but when you are assaulted, mugged, or your home is broken into and your stuff stolen or your family terrorized, tell me: who will you call?

Ghostbusters.

Re:What are the police really like?

[Fulcrum of Evil]

Achmed the shepherd doesn't live in Oz - he lived in Afghanistan and can't read, much less do anything about blowing up the assholes invading his country. What he did do was piss off someone who decided that he was a good trade for $50kUSD or whatever.

What I don't understand is why does the west sweep Isreal's atrocities under the carpet and empasise the (smaller scale) atrocities of their vastly weaker opponents?

Good PR? Not to sound anti semitic, but the jews have managed to conflate anti-israel sentiment with anti-semitic sentiment, so you can't question what israel does or you're a racist tool and will get booted next election. Also, Israel is a friendly, Us funded, country in the mideast. They know that they depend on us to actually exist, so they have to be friendly, while we want that foothold.

Re:What are the police really like?

[HeadlessNotAHorseman]

If you live in Victoria, Australia, your rights with respect to dealing with police are outlined here (pdf warning)

Re:What are the police really like?

[orclevegam]

That's because he's part of the system that gets the government money, so his education is a lot more important. The police don't need much education to do what the government wants them to do (in fact a lot of education probably makes them less likely to do what the government wants).

Re:What are the police really like?

[tehcyder]

I would eliminate everything remotely resembling the military.

I applaud your attitude, and don't want to start yet another gun flamewar on slashdot, but one of the reasons that here in the UK the police still have a broadly positive image is that they don't generally carry firearms.

Once you have police in cool black uniforms carrying guns, it becomes much harder to differentiate between them and the actual military.

Re:What are the police really like?

[meringuoid]

I supposed the EU's say the same thing about American football...

We do indeed :-)

I saw some American football game on TV in the pub a while back. Watched it a bit. Infuriating game to watch, though. They get going, throw the ball about, charge down the pitch, someone from the other team goes in for a tackle - at this point I'm getting interested. Don't really know the rules, but by analogy to rugby I get the overall objective here. They want to get to the end of the pitch and score a try. The other guys want to stop them doing so. Fine.

Then for no apparent reason everyone stops dead and they all get together for what appears to be a committee meeting. WTF? Get the fuck on with it, guys! This was just getting good!

And before long what looks like the entire bloody team gets substituted, and I give up in exasperation and go and buy another pint.

Re:What are the police really like?

[nilbog]

well, unless the citizens are carrying guns too. Which we are.

Re:What are the police really like?

[Uzuri]

"You mean to prevent stuff like the riots in Detroit when the Pistons won the championship? Or the flaming mattresses in Columbus when OSU won?"

Or lost. Or tied.

Sorry, I live near Columbus. Those people are *nuts*

seriously?

[n3r0.m4dski11z]

Ive never got most peoples reaction to this...

fact1: its a mess of wires, batteries and other things stapped to multiple bridges and other choke points in your city. youve recieved multiple calls in the last 20 minutes, from all reaches of the city, its rush hour and youve just had your first coffee.

fact2: YOU DONT KNOW THAT ITS A STUPID FUCKING MARKETTING STUNT. YOU OBVIOUSLY ARE NOT AWARE HOW PR AGENCIES WILL RECKLESSLY TRY AND "BREAK BOUNDRIES"

fact3: you make the call

result: you blow the fucking piece of shit ad farts toy to fucking glass, round up the "masterminds" for interrogation, and try and learn WHY THE FUCK they though strapping fake bombs to bridges was a cool idea...

aparently people see some problem with this order of events and find it funny. Like this is what we pay government officials to do. This is perhaps the one instance that I have heard of a genuine terrorist hoax being played out PERFECTLY by local government.

yet every fuckign blog rewards and respects these fucking tools. please explain why

Re:seriously?

[sqrt(2)]

Because we do whatever we want, to whomever we want, at all times.

Re:seriously?

[aussie_a]

Because a bomb squad, who should have handled the dismantling of these devices, should have known in 5 minutes it wasn't a fucking bomb. Now either: 1) they weren't called in so the police are incompetent. 2) they were called in and ignored so the police are incompetent. 3) they were called in and thought it was a bomb so they were incompetent. In any event, someone was incompetent in reacting to these LED sticky thingies. It certainly wasn't the PR company.

Re:seriously?

[Hal_Porter]

Because a bomb squad, who should have handled the dismantling of these devices, should have known in 5 minutes it wasn't a fucking bomb. Bomb squads don't dismantle suspected bombs in 5 minutes because they are afraid of booby traps, or terrorists setting them off by radio when they arrive, or just setting off the bomb accidentally.

Re:seriously?

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

Bomb squads don't dismantle suspected bombs in 5 minutes because they are afraid of booby traps, or terrorists setting them off by radio when they arrive, or just setting off the bomb accidentally. Depends on the definition of "suspected bomb" -- there were plenty of pictures and live footage in the press of a cop holding up one of the "suspected bombs" from nearly the very start of that day.

Re:seriously?

[Anonymous Coward]

Welcome to the USA my dear friend. They keep you terrorized with the fear that the (FAKE!!!!!!!!LIE!!!!!BS!!!!!!OUR VERY OWN CIA BLEW THE AIRPLANES!!!!!) 9/11 is going to happen again, so you cooperate being meek and not complaining when they torture immigrants, force you to carry and show an ID, or when the NSA invades your privacy by chasing the logs of your ISP and knowing each and every site you visited on the last two months. Kinda like the USA became a caricature of the Soviet Union they so proudly destroyed...
The constitution and the forefathers' ideals got all killed by the GOP-NAZI Fox News tyranny.

Re:seriously?

[dbIII]

One thing that is important to remember now is that as soon as the "terror" word is used you get people that see themselves as James Bond without the benefit of training or experience coming out of the woodwork and overwhelming the professional law enforcement. You then see a big fuss kicked and attempts to blame the victim because rules and procedures have been broken so admitting a mistake could result in some dismissals.

I doubt that a bomb squad was involved for more than a couple of minutes and it is likely that their opinions were ignored.

Re:seriously?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, it was a lite-brite knockoff with some batteries. Feel free to panic the next time you visit KB toys.

Re:seriously?

[shbazjinkens]

Because a bomb squad, who should have handled the dismantling of these devices, should have known in 5 minutes it wasn't a fucking bomb.

You don't remember? The bomb squad actually detonated a charge over one of the devices.

One wise slashdotter pointed out that all of his electronic devices in conspicuous public places had a tag on it describing what the device was and who to contact for questions. In the future, that's pretty much the only way to avoid this kind of bullcrap because my intuition tells me that law enforcement at large does not think the Boston PD reacted strangely.

Re:seriously?

[Reverberant]

Because a bomb squad, who should have handled the dismantling of these devices, should have known in 5 minutes it wasn't a fucking bomb.

If you read the timeline of that day you'll see that the police did determine pretty quickly that is wasn't a bomb. The main issue during the day was that the streets had to be be closed so investigators could safely access the devices - even if the authorities didn't think it was a bomb, the street would still have to be closed to workers could safely remove them. There was also the issue that a real pipe bomb turned up at New England Medical Center during that ordeal.

As I wrote before, the biggest mistake those guys made was hanging the devices off of public property - even before 9/11, doing something like that is just guaranteed to get the bomb squad out there (and contrary to popular opinion, the device that was first called in to the police had only been there for less than 24 hours). Some of the other devices on storefronts though had been there longer.

IMHO the police reaction in this one instance was reasonable - up to the arrest & prosecution part. There were no mass evacuations, no arrests of Middle-eastern people for being Middle-Eastern. They closed the roads, investigated the devices, and reopened the roads. The arrests and press releases after that though were clearly CYA.

On the other hand, the arrest of Star Simpson was a fucking travesty, and my alma mater's response to the incident ("reckless"? WTF? Is wearing a blinking tie to the airport also reckless?) has ended my participation in their alumni fundraising activities.

Re:seriously?

[RealGrouchy]

The main issue during the day was that the streets had to be be closed so investigators could safely access the devices - even if the authorities didn't think it was a bomb, the street would still have to be closed to workers could safely remove them. Somehow, I'm reminded of the fact that on any given weekend, it is expected that a certain number of people will die in motor vehicle collisions along certain major stretches of freeway. Some weekends, like long weekends, holiday weekends, or weekends with poor weather, it is expected that there will be more.

I wonder why we spend so much energy avoiding the remotest possibility of any potential terrorist attack, yet we tolerate--and even expect--a certain number of deaths on a regular basis from other things, like traffic collisions.

- RG>

Re:seriously?

[fredklein]

The main issue during the day was that the streets had to be be closed so investigators could safely access the devices

Funny. No one had to close the streets to PLACE the devices...

Re:seriously?

[Fred_A]

I'll have to remember remember to wear a tshirt saying "harmless meat popsicle, do not detonate" if I ever go to Boston...

Re:seriously?

[Reverberant]

Funny. No one had to close the streets to PLACE the devices...

Because he wasn't doing it safely. You want to hang off the side of a highway and get yourself or someone else killed hanging an electric sign for an advertiser, go ahead. But if the city or state agency sends an employee to do that without the proper safety precautions and that worker (or an innocent bystander) gets killed, that agency will be held accountable.

And unfortunately, accidents do happen.

Re:seriously?

[fredklein]

he wasn't doing it safely. You want to hang off the side of a highway and get yourself or someone else killed

Actually, from what I heard, he used a stick to lift the devices into position. Therefore, a stick with a hook on the end could be used to pull the devices down, after, perhaps closing the traffic lane under it for 30 seconds. No need to "close the street" for the day.

Even if a 'cherry picker' truck was needed to 'safely' get the worker up the 10 feet or so, that also only requires the closing on a single lane, if that.

Re:seriously?

[Reverberant]

Therefore, a stick with a hook on the end could be used to pull the devices down, after, perhaps closing the traffic lane under it for 30 seconds

That assumes that you know what it is, and you know how it's attached. Even if you proceed with the assumption that it's not a bomb, there are other issues that a worker needs to be aware of - for example, is it powered using AC power ( a shock hazzard)? How is it attached to the structure? Is there any identifying information on it that authorizes its placement? Are there any "surprises" like bottles of urine or bags of feces behind it? (you may think that last one was contrived, but I've seen it first hand, and it's something very real that public workers deal with on highways and transit properties).

These are issues that are best addressed by getting a close look. On the other hand, if Mr. Berdovsky had told the authorities on site what he knew instead of staying quiet and video taping it, maybe things could have gone more efficiently.

No need to "close the street" for the day.

I don't know where you're getting this '"close the street" for the day' stuff - consult the timeline and the Wikipedia summary. The northbound lanes of I-93 were closed for about an hour. If you've ever been involved in traffic closures (I have lots of times as part of my work), that's pretty damn quick.

Even if a 'cherry picker' truck was needed to 'safely' get the worker up the 10 feet or so, that also only requires the closing on a single lane, if that.

I hope you're not basing "closing a single lane" on the footprint of the man-lift - it's not just the footprint, you also need clearance for the radius of the boom (for a bucket truck or cherry picker) or you need adequate clearance for scissor lifts in case they fall over. Of course don't forget adequate clearances for any power or signal lines that might be in the area as part of the Orange line electrification system.

I know it's easy to sit behind your keyboard and second guess these things but I've actually had to work in situations like that. Even in the most benign of circumstances, there are lots of dangers.

Re:seriously?

[BlueUnderwear]

If you read the timeline of that day you'll see that the police did determine pretty quickly that is wasn't a bomb. Quoting from that timeline:

At 9:00 a.m. The Boston Police Bomb squad is requested by the MBTA to Sullivan Square and examines the item. As a precaution I-93 is closed and the device is rendered safe and determined to be some sort of hoax device at 10:21 AM. That's one hour and 21 minutes. Not exactly quick...

The main issue during the day was that the streets had to be be closed so investigators could safely access the devices - even if the authorities didn't think it was a bomb, the street would still have to be closed to workers could safely remove them So how did the perps safely place them? Ok, so maybe it made a difference that they were placed in the night (no traffic), but removed in rush hour. But after police determined that it was not a real bomb, couldn't they just have waited until traffic slowed down for the next night? So there would have been exactly one road closure... for the first device. After that, they should have known what these kind of devices really were.

There was also the issue that a real pipe bomb turned up at New England Medical Center during that ordeal. Again, quoting from the report:

Six minutes later at 1:02 p.m. Boston Police received a call from New England Medical Center Security that they had uncovered a pipe bomb in their building in a desk drawer So, this was 4 hours later than the aqua teen scare. Are Boston Police gifted with premonition, or how else could a 1pm incident cause their poor reaction to a 9am incident? Oh, and if we read on:

At 1:08 p.m. the Boston Police Bomb Squad arrived and confirmed the existence of an item which appeared to be a pipe bomb inside the hospital. This is a fast reaction. Unlike the 81 minutes earlier in the morning...

Re:seriously?

[Mailleman]

But owing to a point above, the LED Sticky thing doesn't have to BE a bomb. It could just house a transmitter. It is the carrot, and the bomb is in a trashcan on the other side of the street. Having made remote control devices for cars in the past, this is not at all unreasonable, especially if the only thing it needs to do is trigger a switch.

Did they go over the line? Absolutely, but had they not, it might have given others ideas of a weakness.

That said, I can't think of anyone who would have though of advertising a bomb before this (Excepting, of course, Gigli), but there's always a first time... :-D

Re:seriously?

[Reverberant]

That's one hour and 21 minutes. Not exactly quick...

From the BPD timeline: "At 9:00 a.m. The Boston Police Bomb squad is requested by the MBTA to Sullivan Square and examines the item. As a precaution I-93 is closed [...]"

From Wikipedia: "Northbound I-93 reopened to traffic at about 10:05 a.m."

Like I said, it was I-93N was closed for about 60 minutes. That is pretty quick for a highway closure.

So how did the perps safely place them?

Asked and answered.

But after police determined that it was not a real bomb, couldn't they just have waited until traffic slowed down for the next night? So there would have been exactly one road closure... for the first device. After that, they should have known what these kind of devices really were.

To determine whether the first device was a bomb, they needed to get up close to it, necessitating the I-93N closure. The Longfellow and BU bridges were closed after the NMC pipe bomb was found. Just because the first device wasn't a bomb, doesn't mean that the subquent devices weren't bombs. Then again, if Turner had put some identifying info on the lights, the authorities could have gotten some clarification.

So, this was 4 hours later than the aqua teen scare. Are Boston Police gifted with premonition, or how else could a 1pm incident cause their poor reaction to a 9am incident? Oh, and if we read on:

WTF? How is responding to an unknown object on public infrastructure using caution a poor reaction?

This is a fast reaction. Unlike the 81 minutes earlier in the morning...

Again, from the timeline: "At 12:54 p.m. the Boston Police Bomb squad receives a call for a suspicious device at the intersection of Stuart and Charles Street. "

"Six minutes later at 1:02 p.m. Boston Police received a call from New England Medical Center Security that they had uncovered a pipe bomb in their building in a desk drawer."

New England Medical Center is about two blocks away from the Stuart/Charles Street intersection - the bomb squad was already in the area.

Re:seriously?

[Reverberant]

That's one hour and 21 minutes. Not exactly quick...

Disregard my earlier response to you on this point, I thought you were referring to the timeline of the lane closure.

Regarding your point - that depends on the exact time of events. If the bomb squad showed up on site at 9:00am and 10:21am is the time where the guy on site declares "it's not a bomb!", then the timing does appear to be a little slow, but (IMO) not unreasonably so.

On the other hand, if 9:00am is the time it was called in, and 10:21am is the time where the BPD/Staties issues the press release stating "it's not a bomb!" that sound about right when you consider the time needed to mobilize to the site, close traffic, get suited up, carefully get up close to it, carefully move it, etc.

From personal experience, I can tell you that it takes 20-30 minutes just to close off a lane on a heavily trafficked road - and this is Boston's I-93 during rush hour that we're talking about.

Re:seriously?

[fredklein]

That assumes that you know what it is, and you know how it's attached
there are other issues that a worker needs to be aware of ...all of which they knew after retreiving the first one.

if Mr. Berdovsky had told the authorities on site what he knew instead of staying quiet and video taping it, maybe things could have gone more efficiently

If by 'things' you mean arresting him, sure. I'm sure his going to the cops at the scene of a 'terrurist bombing threat!!11!" and saying 'Hi, I'm the one who placed the device' wouldn't have resulted in his getting thrown to the ground and arrested. That'd be efficient.

man-lift
bucket truck or cherry picker
scissor lifts

Oh, did you miss the link someone else posted of a cop on a ladder taking one down? No 'special precautions', no "booms" (pun intended), no lifts or lane closures. Just a cop on a ladder.

http://www.bradleysalmanac.com/pictures/2007-01/athf-err.jpg

I know it's easy to sit behind your keyboard and second guess these things but I've actually had to work in situations like that. Even in the most benign of circumstances, there are lots of dangers.


I've worked plenty of jobs where I'm 'supposed' to follow certain safety rules. However, if I actually bothered to follow all of them, my productivity would slow to a crawl and I'd be fired. A trivial example from my early years in retail would be ladder safety. If I insisted on reading and obeying all the ladder safety rules*, I'd piss off customers by taking too long to get their computer/printer/whatever off the top shelf, and they'd go elsewhere.

*Never stand on the top step, Keep your body centered , never lean out sideways, alway have a spotter, never carry anything up/down a ladder (how can I get the box down if I can't carry it? Drop it?), etc.

Re:seriously?

[Reverberant]

...all of which they knew after retreiving the first one.

Let's look at the timeline again - I-93N was closed for 60 minutes when they found the first one. They later found a second one at the corner of Stuart Street and Charles St, but no street closures are mentioned. Presumably they thought it wasn't an issue. Ten minutes later, a pipe bomb with a threatening note is found two blocks away at the New England Medical Center. Ten minutes after that, Mooninites are found under two bridges, which are closed. We now know that events were a bunch of unfortunate coincidences, but I can't see how the response was unreasonable because the authorities didn't immediately jump to that conclusion. BTW, it appears those bridges (along with Storrow Drive) were closed for about 30 minutes. That's about the same traffic disruption that would happen for a traffic accident.

Oh, did you miss the link someone else posted of a cop on a ladder taking one down? No 'special precautions', no "booms" (pun intended), no lifts or lane closures. Just a cop on a ladder.

So, when and where was that photo taken? Was is the first one under I-93? Or was is one of the later ones when the police knew what is was? Not to mention that even using "just" a ladder requires adequate clearance for safety.

I've worked plenty of jobs where I'm 'supposed' to follow certain safety rules. However, if I actually bothered to follow all of them, my productivity would slow to a crawl and I'd be fired. A trivial example from my early years in retail would be ladder safety

Lugging computer peripherals off a shelf is not in the same ballpark as working a few feet away from a roadway carrying 3,800 cars per hour or an electrified railroad ROW. I've done all three and had 0 near-death experiences working in retail compared with a half-dozen or so working on/near active transportation infrastructure. When you work around roadways and transit lines, you follow the rules or workers (and innocent bystanders) get maimed or killed.

Meatwad Sux

[davek]

Listening to Danger Doom right now....

for the on topic comment: best.... promo.... ever.

Lightweights..

[Anonymous Coward]

I would have squeezed his nuts and punched him in the face till he talked. What was the real plot?

I really want to know.

[Anonymous Coward]

What happened to that chick from MIT that was arrested because her vest had "electronic stuff" on it? While her tech-hack-vest said "Socket To Me" and has some breadboards [funny stuff too] or whatever, what actually happened to her in terms of charges and such?

The mainstream media never followed up.

I'm torn.

[Guppy06]

On the one hand, the police went overboard. On the other, I'm not going to shed a tear for an advertiser.

Re:I'm torn.

[wizardforce]

What other hand? It's irrelevant who's on the tail end of this, What is relevant is how it was handled by the authoritative figures and in this case it was handled poorly.

Re:I'm torn.

[Guppy06]

"What is relevant is how it was handled by the authoritative figures and in this case it was handled poorly."

I know, they released them back onto the street where they can continue to buy my personal information, jam my telephone, clog my mailbox, and harass me with dancing aliens to try to sell me life insurance/mortgages/penis pills I don't want. A pity.

Re:I'm torn.

[Anonymous Coward]

You're right... They should put the advertiser into real ass pounding federal prison so he can get anally raped a couple times.

Re:I'm torn.

[alienmole]

Are you serious? He's an artist and a VJ who was doing an advertising gig. Assuming you actually work for a living, what kind of morally superior day job do *you* have?

Re:I'm torn.

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you serious? He's an artist and a VJ who was doing an advertising gig. Assuming you actually work for a living, what kind of morally superior day job do *you* have?

I'm having a hard time coming up with a job that's *not* morally superior to any of those. CEO, I suppose.

Re:I'm torn.

[alienmole]

You're just kneejerking about a trivial issue that annoys you (and one which happens to pay for a lot of free content you consume). If you work for a reasonably large corporation you can bet that somewhere, someone is doing something officially in the name of the corporation which is screwing someone else out of their money, health, etc., and you're supporting that by working for the company. That's why I asked for an example: it's easy to spot the bad stuff that companies do if you look. If nothing else, your employer probably advertises, so where does that leave you?

Getting on a high horse about what someone else does for a living doesn't make much sense unless you're talking about really bad stuff. Even if you're a waiter in a diner, some of the people you feed are going out and screwing other people over. Talking about withholding sympathy from someone just because they work in advertising makes about as much sense as doing the same for waiters, trash collectors, plumbers, computer programmers, or sysadmins.

avoiding admitting their exaggerations

[SethJohnson]

I am also curious about the MIT girl. The broadcast media hugely exaggerated the story from the beginning then slowly throughout the day they backpeddelled their original descriptions of how it went down. I can only assume the lack of follow-up is because they don't want to have to say, "Well, we originally said she had a circuit board with wires and putty on it, but in fact it was just some flashing leds and wires."

Seth

Re:avoiding admitting their exaggerations

[Hal_Porter]

Probably some Jack Bauer wannabe is still waterboarding her to make her TELL HIM the LOCATION of the NUCLEAR DEVICE.

Re:avoiding admitting their exaggerations

[Anonymous Coward]

+1 Funny

Re:avoiding admitting their exaggerations

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

I am also curious about the MIT girl. Star Simpson got a good lawyer and has chosen a trial without a jury scheduled for December 3rd. The charges against her sound like the same ones against the ATHF guys - something like intentional use of a hoax device.

I believe her lawyer was wise to pick a bench trial as the local press continues to hype the event, constantly referring to her as a prankster and dressing like a suicide bomber and the average joe on the street sure seems to think she should burn at the stake.

My understanding is that the state will need to prove intent on her part and that there was absolutely no intent as she basically wore the same clothes two days in a row. So as long as the judge decides to follow the law, rather than succumb to some inane urge to "send a message" she should come out all right.

PS -- anyone else read ATHF as Alcohol, Tobacco, Humor and Firearms?

Re:avoiding admitting their exaggerations

[AncientPC]

So I guess I shouldn't be wearing this shirt while flying this holiday season?

Re:avoiding admitting their exaggerations

[Anonymous Coward]

Star Simpson got a good lawyer Of course she can afford a good lawyer, she goes to MIT. You think they let regular people in?

Re:avoiding admitting their exaggerations

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course she can afford a good lawyer, she goes to MIT. You think they let regular people in? She's on full scholarship at school. She initially had a public defender.
And no, they don't let regular people into MIT, only the very talented ones.

Re:avoiding admitting their exaggerations

[Anonymous Coward]

And no, they don't let regular people into MIT, only the very talented ones. Heh, denial ain't just a river in Egypt anymore, hmm?

Well... ATHF colon the movie WAS a bomb...

[the_skywise]

So Boston was kinda, sort of, right to be... worried...

On the flip side, the guy comes out after his "interrogation" and was so traumatized and in shock by it, that he does an improv on "hairstyles". I wonder how Orson Welles would've faired...

(and ditto the above posters... what's up with the MIT chick? That was far more dangerous)

Carrots?

[Tablizer]

My interrogator gave me nothing but carrots to eat

I've heard that eating too many carrots turns one's skin orange. (Ever tested on Mythbusters?) I suppose that would make an interesting interrogation technique: turn the suspect a bright orange to scare the pants off of them.

Re:Carrots?

[Z00L00K]

If you eat too much carrot you may actually damage your liver, so it's not a good idea.

Re:Carrots?

[Tablizer]

If you eat too much carrot you may actually damage your liver, so it's not a good idea.

Hmmm. The interrogator may have then violated the Geneva convention.

Re:Carrots?

[The Iso]

The condition is known as carotenodermia. It takes much longer than a single interrogation session to develop and will go away after several months if carotene consumption is reduced.

Re:Carrots?

[Hal_Porter]

If we could educate people to discriminate against orange people and police to feed suspects carrots it would be an interesting punishment. An alternative to imprisonment or fines. Force feeding with concentrated carrot juice would cause liver damage and a permanent color change, a carrot only diet should be temporary.

More generally thieves could be colored orange by exploding dye packs, rapists could be sprayed with portable aerosols and so on, so that police would be unnecessary. Perhaps orange people would naturally acquire a reputation for untrustworthiness like branded people did in the Middle Ages.

Re:Carrots?

[dbIII]

I don't think the concentration of vitamin A is really all that high - nothing like the dog livers that poisoned three antarctic explorers (two fatally) many years ago.

Re:Carrots?

[Ross D Anderson]

You mean Carotene, which can lead to a yellowing of the skin, it is not just found in carrots, but also many other vegetables.
Unfortunately Carotene gets converted into Vitamin A, too much of which is indeed toxic, so I don't recommend you try this...

Re:Carrots?

[Anonymous Coward]

Now, since your skin is of a darker tone (more orange), you have automatically become a terrorist subject. You will be flow immediadly to the country of the orange people (official white house term) to be "politely questioned" by the orangutans (less politically correct official white house term).

Re:Carrots?

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't Bush the ambassador of the Oranges/Orangs and other simians? Couldn't he just do it then?

Re:Carrots?

[Uzuri]

I can confirm this. As a baby I had a particular fondness for orange-colored baby foods (still do actually... well, orange colored foods, not baby foods) and I turn a rather interesting shade of orange. Scared my parents. Not as bad as when I ate too much candy at grandma's and sweated vanilla scent, though*

This is the strange sort of thing that happens to first children.

*A vanilla-scented child may actually tip you off to a rare form of cancer. My brother died of it right about that time which is what scared my folks so bad.

ACS NEVER SLEEP!

[Anonymous Coward]

W3 C4N TR0LL 4LL N1GHT, B4BY!!!

Oh, by the way, Gimp is superior to Photoshop.

Re:ACS NEVER SLEEP!

[peter318200]

Perhaps its worth saying that the Gimp is superior to Photoshop if you have no money!

If it's not an American flag...

[mikesum]

it must be a bomb.

Re:If it's not an American flag...

[zaydana]

Great, now the terrorists are going to disguise their bombs as American Flags.

Re:If it's not an American flag...

[Fission86]

yay... now i have bombs disguised as american flags to add to my list of paranoias...

i already look at planes suspiciously... so really, thanks a lot, dick...

Re:If it's not an American flag...

[tietokone-olmi]

That gives me an idea...

Re:If it's not an American flag...

[Anonymous Coward]

So wrap your bomb in an American flag.

Re:If it's not an American flag...

[mcpkaaos]

Don't we already do that?

Re:If it's not an American flag...

[MadJo]

*puts up an American flag with a timer counting down and some loose wires hanging from it*

Re:If it's not an American flag...

[abb3w]

Can you say "guncotton" children?

For added challenge, find red and blue dyes that act as ignition catalysts when wetted and mixed.

Good to see..

[insertwackynamehere]

I liked this guy's hair comments to the press way back and normally I'd see someone like him as a pretentious "artsy" douche.. you know, typical dreadlocked pothead graphic design/art major trying to look cool, but the fact is his "bomb threats" were blown out of proportion by the media. Do I think it makes sense it was investigated? Yes. Do I think it makes sense he was treated like crap when he was basically a adman (albeit an adman who resembles oldfashioned adman the way a Facebook engineer resembles an IBM engineer) that was hired to place ads for a well known product/company? No. I think it makes sense the lights were investigated and the men questioned but I think it's ridiculous that interrogation continued after they found out that their superiors were Viacom (okay not superiors per se but the people who outsourced to them). Viacom should have been the "target" of the authorities after this simple bit of information was found out.

Anyway, that was a bit of a rant but my point is, I liked the way this guy handled the media way back (because the media, frankly, deserves that...I appreciate what they do, but every now and then they need to be reminded that they aren't the ones in control but the ones who document and their emotional manipulation and constant spinning deserves to be checked). But on this interview two quotes in particular made me realize he is separate:

[Psychedelics] did not seem to offer a path to salvation, just a widening of perspective. and

One doesn't need psychedelics to achieve those kinds of realizations however. I really think it was good of him to say that, because yeah, he's clearly someone who isn't a stranger to drugs but he offers a level headed view that's not overly self serving a biased. Too many people think drugs (especially psychedelics) answer all their questions and solve everything and sound like selfserving douchebags. They talk about discovering the answer while taking LSD and it's so pretentious and dickish and done to fit an image. Here's a guy who does them (no problem with that here) and then proceeds to say they helped a bit but they aren't necessary and maybe he enjoyed them but he's clearly not going to judge someone who doesn't do them. I've never tried psychedelics and I also no longer smoke marijuana, but I am most definitely not an anti-drug type; I just am glad to see someone saying drugs can be fun but they aren't necessary. People who do drugs and say that's the only way are almost worse than people who don't do drugs and say that's the only way because people who do drugs generally take pride in their self-described "open minds". So kudos to him for basically saying "yeah I used drugs but you don't have to and you can still get to the same point regardless of your choice."

Re:Good to see..

[Anonymous Coward]

I know lots of artists and the person you describe is one in a hundred. I think you'll find the dickhead ratio is much higher other places.

Re:Good to see..

[forgotten_my_nick]

I'm sorry we are going to have to mod you down as your post wasn't in the form of a hair question.

Re:Good to see..

[pipingguy]

Amazingly insightful post. Thanks, I really appreciate people that take the time to sort out coherent thoughts and put them into words. We need more of this.

Excellent.

Conspicuous Hustle

[dharmadove]

Maybe they made such a big deal about it to get more Government funding? Lot'$ of taxpayer buck$ out there in the Homeland $ecurity biz.

Conspicuous Hustle - A trick one of my former Chief Engineers used to make it look like he was doing something when the so called problem / issue was a no brainer. He'd make it look like a big deal, set up a "Tiger Team", expended lots of resources, got more budget, manpower, lots of visability, etc. and became the "Hero that saved the project". This was when I worked for a military contracting company in the late '80s. The Chief Engineer was later put on "Special Projects" and fired. He had lied to the customer (USAF) during a critical design review and exposed. I'll never forget when his "Dog Robber" was helping him pack up to leave.

Made my day...

Re:Conspicuous Hustle

[TrekkieGod]

A trick one of my former Chief Engineers used to make it look like he was doing something when the so called problem / issue was a no brainer. He'd make it look like a big deal, set up a "Tiger Team", expended lots of resources, got more budget, manpower, lots of visability, etc. and became the "Hero that saved the project".

Well, how else would he maintain his reputation as a miracle worker? I assume he also multiplied his estimates to fix the problem by four.

Uncle Sam wants you!

[alienmole]

With your incredible mental acuity, you have a promising career ahead of you in the Boston Police Department, or perhaps the Department of Homeland Security.

Re:Uncle Sam wants you!

[dna_(c)(tm)(r)]

terrorists clearly mark the bombs with flashing lights

With your incredible mental acuity, you have a promising career ahead of you in the Boston Police Department, or perhaps the Department of Homeland Security.

I'm sorry, but this thread is going completely wrong. Everybody knows terrorists put a countdown clock on a bomb. In order to disable it you have to cut any of the colored wires at T minus 1 second.

Now do you still trust him to protect and serve in Boston? Duh!

Re:Uncle Sam wants you!

[iron-kurton]

Like the airplane joke: http://www.thecleverest.com/countdown.swf

Re:Uncle Sam wants you!

[RealGrouchy]

I am lucky that the city I live in has a very low percentage of police officers per capita, and a high degree of competition to get in. Even to be a transit cop here you need a postsecondary degree and a few years' policing experience.

Contrast this with the TV promo I saw a few years back, on Detroit's Fox affiliate, which announced that the Detroit Police Department was hiring, and a high school diploma was (I kid you not) a plus.

Who protects us from these people?

- RG>

Re:Uncle Sam wants you!

[Foobar of Borg]

Contrast this with the TV promo I saw a few years back, on Detroit's Fox affiliate, which announced that the Detroit Police Department was hiring, and a high school diploma was (I kid you not) a plus.

So, I guess Kentucky Fried Movie was right about Detroit.

Re:Uncle Sam wants you!

[tehcyder]

Even to be a transit cop here you need a postsecondary degree and a few years' policing experience.

Does this mean a degree more advanced than a degree after a bachelor's? So you need a bachelor's degree, a master's degree and a post-master's degree? To be a transit cop?

I'm amazed.

Re:Uncle Sam wants you!

[RealGrouchy]

No.

Primary School = Elementary School
Secondary School = High School
Postsecondary education = College and/or University (be it a degree, certificate, Ph.D., or whatever)

- RG>

I'll wade into the lion's mouth

[edwardpickman]

Admitedly terrorists are morons, thankfully, or we'd be in a lot more trouble. The point is say if I were trying to hurt a lot of people I wouldn't hide the weapon I'd want it to draw attention. Lets say you pull a trailer up and park it on a busy street and have a large sign that says to advertise your new mobile coffee francise you were giving away iPod Nanos to the first hundred customers that buy coffee. You're guaranteed a hundred people will be waiting at the mentioned opening time and probably a whole lot more. The Russians used the technique in Afganistan and went so far as to make explosives shaped like toys trageting kids. If you want to be sure to harm people you want to draw attention but the right type of attention so it seems perfectly normal. A trailer where you seemed to be selling coffee or ice cream wouldn't attract the attention of the police unless they wanted to check your permits but they wouldn't do that until you opened for business. Hiding a bomb in a display that is designed to draw attention does make sense. If they ignored them and they did blow up then people would be screaming. The police were doing their jobs being careful but they came down hard on them afterwards out of annoyance and the fact they felt foolish but what option did they have? Yes they shouldn't have tried to throw the book at them because it's an overreaction. They meant it as kind of a gorilla advertisement and gorilla actions like placing displays without permission or permits has some risk. The police handled the aftermath poorly but they had to know there was some potential for trouble. I'm sure they were expecting a possible fine not the third degree and a possible vacation at Gitmo.

Re:I'll wade into the lion's mouth

[meringuoid]

A trailer where you seemed to be selling coffee or ice cream wouldn't attract the attention of the police unless they wanted to check your permits but they wouldn't do that until you opened for business. Hiding a bomb in a display that is designed to draw attention does make sense. If they ignored them and they did blow up then people would be screaming.

So, if I were to go into business with a fleet of ice cream vans, and one fine summer's day my vans are driving around Boston giving away promotional ice cream and drawing quite a crowd, you would say the police ought to close down the roads, bring the whole city to a standstill, and arrest me on charges of perpetrating a bomb hoax, because my vans might be bombs?

Re:I'll wade into the lion's mouth

[Anonymous Coward]

They meant it as kind of a gorilla advertisement and gorilla actions like placing displays without permission or permits has some risk.

Damn impolite gorillas, don't even ask permission to place ads...

Re:I'll wade into the lion's mouth

[Anonymous Coward]

"Admitedly terrorists are morons, thankfully, or we'd be in a lot more trouble."

I don't know, it seems they have done an excellent job at bringing American freedom to a halt. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! (for real)

Seriously, think about how long ago 9/11/2001 was. Now think about how jumpy people still are. _STILL_. Regardless of how many times our beloved gov't has reported stopping something imminent, there has been no solid evidence backing them up. Sure, I can see it always as a threat, but come on...

Yea, I would say those "morons" definitely put the word "terror" into everyday American speak... and that was the goal.

Re:I'll wade into the lion's mouth

[justthisdude]

They meant it as kind of a gorilla advertisement and gorilla actions like placing displays without permission or permits has some risk. Perhaps it is a small quibble, but the police were performing the gorilla actions, while the artists were producing guerilla advertisement.

An interesting aside though: I live in Boston, and the next month the local Burlesque troop did a striptease with one girl in dredlocks and the others in police uniforms and dancing with lite-brites. The music? "You dropped the bomb on me", of course!

Mine is bigger than his

[PietjeJantje]

He also has a reputation in Boston -- and increasingly around the world -- as a popular VJ, video artist, performance artist and painter. Sentenced to 80 hours community service for his crime, he made the most of it, painting a delightfully trippy mural for Spaulding (physical) Rehabilitation Center. He was also recently voted the #12 VJ in the world by London-based DJ Magazine and was named Boston's Best Artist by Improper Bostonian Magazine. Zebbler also recently appeared in Berkeley, Caliifornia where his surround sound HD projection set was part of the opening reception for RIP.MIX.BURN.BAM.PFA at the Pacific Film Archives -- an exhibit that "celebrates the cultural and artistic practice of remix." I also have a reputation in my home town - and increasingly around the world - as a popular commenter, flame artist and commiter, and recently visited another town to participate in a cultural and artistic celebration of trolling, where my computer was used in the opening reception. Furthermore, I was recently voted #11 train spotter, and was elected best train spotter by my local newspaper, and won 5 pounds of meat, which I donated to the community. If that didn't sufficiently impress you, my toenails are very large and I frequently joke about them.

Re:Mine is bigger than his

[Anonymous Coward]

Fucking genius.

Pls post link to toenail pics.

Yeah Gimp is better .... who needs stinking CYMK

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah... except anybody who is serious about graphic art for print use.

PS: You were joking right? Please tel me.

Star Simpson

[Adult film producer]

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/regional/general/view.bg?articleid=1042838

Catch the part about the nametag in the original stories? Probably not... we'll probably find out later on that it was a nametag with 3 LEDS and a battery, maybe a wire was showing ... then all hell broke loose at Logan airport!

Re:Star Simpson

[Adult film producer]

here's another article with a bit more content discussing the details of whats going on,

http://media.www.dailyfreepress.com/media/storage/paper87/news/2007/11/06/News/Simpson.Asks.Charge.To.Be.Dropped-3081390.shtml

dark age

[wikinerd]

If you get into a time machine and get back to the dark ages and you put an image of a dragon in the middle of a mediaeval city you can laugh as you watch the crowd getting crazy and paranoid... until they catch and burn you as a witch (and if you don't look like one, they will make you look like a witch, probably by comparing your weight with that of a duck).

Now, fast forward to 2007. Modern enlightened age you think? Think again... If you install some electronic stuff in a modern US city, you can laugh as you watch the crowd getting crazy and paranoid... until they catch you. What happens next depends very much on how white your skin is, whether you have a beard, and whether your name sounds Muslim. An English name combined with white skin and no facial hair will result in you getting your freedom after some interrogation in a police station, but if you have the "wrong" demographic characteristics then you will end up in a nasty camp in Cuba (By the way I find it interesting how they chose to set up Guantanamo on the same island as a communist dictatorship).

The same can happen if you get into an airport with an electronic nametag on your chest.

Or, perhaps if you walk to enter a train with your iPod wires visible from your pocket.

Welcome to a society where everything that deviates from what is considered normal is equated with terrorism. Very soon every kind of behaviour, from what you see on your computer screen (Treacherous Computing will help with this) to what clothes you wear will be controlled by formal bureaucracies by force of violence if you don't comply. Not really because your behaviour will constitute a real threat, but only because your behaviour is inconsistent with that of a slave.

When (or if) this terrorism fear paranoia passes, future historians will discuss our post-911 age with great interest and will consider it as a prime example of how civilisations can sabotage themselves and self-destruct forgetting hundreds of years of societal and civil evolution.

Re:dark age

[shalla]

Think again... If you install some electronic stuff in a modern US city, you can laugh as you watch the crowd getting crazy and paranoid... until they catch you.

Only in some cities. Remember, Boston was the only city to react that way to the Mooninites.

Hell, the Pittsburgh bomb squad is pretty damn calm about bombs. "Oh, that's suspicious. Right. Let's direct people away from there and get it investigated and if we need to we can send in the robot."

Most of the time I don't even know they've been somewhere unless someone I know walks into a cordon or sits in traffic for a bit and gets redirected or there's a small blurb in the newspaper about it. There certainly isn't the mass panic that apparently gripped Boston as they fumbled the response.

Re:dark age

[westlake]

Modern enlightened age you think? Think again... If you install some electronic stuff in a modern US city, you can laugh as you watch the crowd getting crazy and paranoid... until they catch you

Then maybe it is time you did some thinking.

The legitimate advertiser calls the Boston transit authority and inquires about costs, liability, restrictions on the placement and mounting of devices, and so on.

He knows that promotional stunts have gone sour before.

The terrorist by definition doesn't play by the rules. But the Geek can be counted on to press The Big Red Button because he knows it couldn't be real.

Re:dark age

[Anonymous Coward]

Lots of medieval churches have images of dragons, demons and monsters in paintings, capitals, grotesques and so on. If you don't know the first thing about history (and clearly you don't), don't just make shit up.

Alarming the public is a poor standard...

[Xenographic]

As we can see from this case and others, alarming the public is a pretty poor standard. Thanks to media fearmongering, they can apparently be alarmed by almost anything.

TFA mentioned something about a project of his where he took news clips to show how the nightly news is constantly doing it. I wish that would get more attention than ATHF which is, as that comment under TFA put it, "the intellectual equivalent of TV static."

I don't know about anyone else, but these days, I'm more worried by media panics than actual terrorists.

Re:Alarming the public is a poor standard...

[Nephilium]

Hells... look at the fact you can get science teachers to sign bans on di-hydrogen monoxide. I think we need to get back to beating people until they learn how to think rationally...

Nephilium

context assumptions

[jpellino]

people who watch a lot of cartoon network think everyone knows what's up with cartoon network and will laugh at athf
people who watch a lot of fox news think everyone knows knows what's up with fox news and will yell along with oreilly
people who watch a lot of letterman can't understand how new yorkers can't recognize rupert ji isn't a deranged waiter
none of these assumptions are remotely universal
misunderstandings are bound to happen
one big one did

Wrong sort of attention.

[Xenographic]

You've failed to distinguish between attracting attention and attracting attention to something that looks like a bomb.

The former is a perfectly evil way to draw a crowd which does not anticipate danger and hurt them. The latter is a really, really stupid tactic. Even if, for some reason, they were convinced that it would work as a means of reverse psychology, it obviously doesn't. I should also mention that the size and placement of the "devices" guaranteed that they would be useless as weapons. They were far too small to make a dent in the bridges and such they were placed on and they were to high up to be any kind of anti-personnel weapon.

The terrorists may be stupid in their own way, but alas they usually do manage to blow people up when they try to. You don't accomplish that with poor tactics and badly placed bombs. Given how prone people are to panicking these days, I'm just glad the terrorists are apparently too stupid to know how to use that to hurt lots of people. I'm sure as hell not going to tell them.

Re:Wrong sort of attention.

[bratwiz]

"I'm sure as hell not going to tell them."

Uh... I think you just did.

Either ...

[Skapare]

Either the Boston police are totally incompetent, or the police in all the other cities where these things showed up are totally incompetent (depending on whether there really is a threat or not). My bet is on the former.

Seriously though...

[wicka]

Carrots are delicious. If the current policy is "build fake bombs, get all you can eat carrot buffet," I am absolutely in.

Do NOT dress like a bomb

[Anonymous Coward]

My girlfriend keeps hinting that I might like ThinkGeek's light-up Wi-Fi Detector T-Shirt for Christmas. Now, I live in Washington, D.C. and work in a federal government building. If I ever step out my front door with that shirt on I'm afraid the Secret Service will spring out of the bushes and drag me off to Guantanamo.

Re:Do NOT dress like a bomb

[Anonymous Coward]

Which is of course stupid of them. Your watch, cellphone, and laptop all have far more electronics in them than that t-shirt.

Now that I think of it...

[seandiggity]

...since when do terrorist explosive devices have blinkenlights on them?

And Somewhere John Adams is weeping for Boston

[gadlaw]

Educational standards and common sense standards for police and elected officials in Boston certainly have fallen since Revolutionary War times when John Adams and others in Massachusetts led the way for Independence and for the rights of man in society. Now Boston is known for ignorance, thuggery, incompetence and a place willing to take the rights of humans away for the false security afforded by uniformed idiots with their self presented jangling medals and uniform bling while they all whore their way in front of cameras at the least provocation to strut and self congratulate each other about how well they are doing. Boston is a joke and an embarrassment. That's my two cents.

I Wash My TV in Fear

[CaroKann]

Zebbler had a good point in regards to the business of TV news. Fear prods people to watch TV. The newstainment companies take advantage of that. "I Wash My TV in Fear" is a video show he puts on consisting of the most fearful snippets of TV news recorded over a couple of days. I wonder if it might be possible to create a horror movie that way.

Problems.

[Erris]

I can understand caution but not mean spirited incompetence. It should have been apparent from the devices size and placement that they were not a real threat. I can understand caution and further tests to make sure because we should not assume terrorists are competent. What I can't understand is bile like yours and vilification of the artists. They were not terrorists and should not be treated that way. "Terror suspect" is just another phrase for "you have no rights" and that is a larger issue than toys on subways. Paranoid people like you will mistake any new object as a "fake bomb" and you will treat the person who put it there, or some scape goat, as a mass murderer. The world you wish for will oppressive and dull but just as dangerous.

Heal yourself. Re:I'm torn.

[Erris]

I'm not going to shed a tear for an advertiser.

The same thing would happen to anyone. The problem is not what they did, it's a paranoid interpretation of what they did that's the problem. A guerilla beautification squad installing boxes of flowers would have been arrested and vilified too.

da police

[Anonymous Coward]

http://canz.net/game/c3d72cb

Oh, come now. Ordeal?

[hey!]

They made him eat carrots? Were they overcooked?

The cops may well have believed it was all a misunderstanding, but their job is to gather evidence of any possible crime. After you've been Mirandized, it's a game in which they try to get as much information out of you as possible without overstepping their constitutional limitations. If they act hostile towards you, it doesn't mean they are actually hostile, any more than a friendly act means you can trust them.

Good cop or bad cop, it doesn't matter, once they've brought you in for something they're going to try to get you to give them evidence of a crime, or if they have solid evidence of a small crime, to get you to give them evidence of a bigger crime. In this case, by the time these guys were being interrogated the cops knew the devices weren't bombs. The cops were trying to get the guy to say something like this, "We weren't planting bombs! We just thought if we could close the subways down we'd get a lot of free publicity for our movie!" Bingo, they've just promoted a case of advertising without the proper permits into the intentional creation of a public nuisance. Armed with this, they throw the small fry back in order to get the genius behind the stunt, which is good police work. The corollary of this is that when there is no larger crime, the small fry endure some tough and threatening sounding talk.

While normally I think cops should be polite and deferential to citizens, this one process is inherently ugly and manipulative, which is why you want a lawyer present in a police interrogation, even if your conscience is clear. You don't want to admit to a crime greater than the cops have evidence for, just because they are threatening to pin an even larger crime on you. Without a lawyer present, the system is inherently unfair and dangerous to the innocent.

Re:Oh, come now. Ordeal?

[MadAhab]

Well put.

"My daughter is a fan of yours... were you trying to blow up Boston" is just silly. You have to realize, innocent or not, that once the authorities get into their heads that you are guilty, they are going to try every asinine, stupid, and ridiculous theory and game they can come up with to box you into a "guilty" position.

Once they've decided that you are a "bad guy", they generally don't apply logic or common sense except in pursuit of proving you to be a "bad guy". That's what the rules are for. That's what Miranda is for. That's what human rights are for. That's why we "give" rights to "criminals". Because all to frequently, it's the innocent we're protecting.

That's why, in the USA, we have every fucking right NOT to expect the Spanish Inquisition.

Zing!

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice one. Not only US dropped bombs, but the ones they sell as well for other people to drop.

I am now typing more words, because slashdot can't handle people that are actually able to type quickly so I have to stall and write useless crap, just so the filter doesn't think I'm some sort of bot for being able to type.

Perspective

[abb3w]

He's an artist and a VJ who was doing an advertising gig.

And I have exactly the sympathy for him that I'd give a prostitute who caught AIDS in 2005 from having unprotected anal sex.

(Day job = university PFY admin)

Re:Perspective

[alienmole]

(Day job = university PFY admin)

So your day job supports people who are learning some of the things they need to know for jobs in... advertising, and worse. How do you sleep at night?

Luckily it's not like this guy *needs* a lot of sympathy. He seems to have handled it pretty well. But man, there are some people seriously in need of some perspective here. I guess the world can go to hell as long as we put those damn advertisers in their place, huh? You're really sticking it to the man! No really, how *do* you sleep at night?

(For the record, I am not now, nor have I ever been in advertising. I just find this hypocritical whiny bitchiness astonishing.)

Re:Perspective

[abb3w]

So your day job supports people who are learning some of the things they need to know for jobs in... advertising, and worse. How do you sleep at night?

First, it's only the worse: in my area I only handle the engineers and associated geeks, most of whom don't go into advertising (except to hide the body). Second, I primarily deal with the faculty, not their students. Third, the terms "PFY" and "support" are only on very casual acquaintance terms, barring prospects for blackmail, bribery, or getting laid. Fourth, six years in an even more morally repugnant job (four as management). Fifth, a sociopathically open-minded morality. And last, a cup of chamomile tea with a half shot of Barenjager before bed.

Perhaps I ought to have added to the aforementioned scenario that I also have exactly the sympathy for the paranoid Boston authorities that I do for the STD... though the old fashioned phrase "Social Disease" would be clearer.

Stuck in traffic.

[generic]

Because the boston police force freaked out over something that looked in no way like a bomb. I felt bad for the guy, I knew they couldn't stick him with any terrorist charges.

'They meant it as kind of a gorilla advertisement'

[trickyrickb]

what, like this?

Parent hits a bullseye ...

[Anonymous Coward]

I blame the paramilitary and militaristic mentality in most police forces. In fact, I would go so far as to say I don't even like the term "police force."

Overkill: The Rise of Paramilitary Police Raids in America

about RIP.MIX.BURN.BAM.PFA

[mako1138]

RIP.MIX.BURN.BAM.PFA is an exhibition at the Berkeley Art Museum/Pacific Film Archive. The idea is for artists to take two selected digital works and remix them how they see fit, in a real Creative Commons kind of way. The neat thing about this is that the public (i.e. us) is also invited to do the same.

http://bampfa.berkeley.edu/digitalart/ripmixburn

I go to the PFA fairly often, but I regrettably still haven't been to the BAM, even after four years.

hai guise

[Anonymous Coward]

tl;dr bye

Parent mismodded - should be funny not troll

[MattskEE]

It's a parody of a line from TFA. I don't have mod points else I'd fix it myself.