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BSA Software Piracy Fight Smacks of RIAA Crackdown
Ron Paul Dennis Kucinich writes "A Business Software Alliance raid on musical-instrument maker Ernie Ball Inc. cost the company $90,000 in a settlement. Soon after, Microsoft sent other businesses in the region around Ball's a flyer offering discounts on software licenses, along with a reminder not to wind up like Ernie Ball. Enraged, CEO Sterling Ball vowed never to use Microsoft software again, even if 'we have to buy 10,000 abacuses.' Similar BSA raids around the country have been provoking strong reactions from put-upon business owners, echoing similar reactions to music-lovers targeted by the RIAA."
Maybe the RIAA will take a page out of the BSA play book and start a tip line. I can see it now "Drop the dime on your friends, family, and coworkers and get a free Brittany Spears CD!"
Libertarian Leaning Political Discussion Forum.
My dear sir, let me introduce you to something called 'linux'. I favor Kubuntu myself.
Tis women makes us love, Tis Love that makes us sad, Tis sadness makes us drink, And drinking makes us mad.
Come on you nerds, he said it for dramatic effect. HE IS NOT GOING TO START SLIDING FUCKING NOBS ACROSS STICKS.
So you can stop saying "no need for abacuses! try linux!"
I've never understood this. The BSA is obviously just a trade group with no authority whatsoever to conduct raids and such. If they decide they need to "raid" a business, then generally they would just have a suspicion that this business 'might' have some of their software installed and some of that software 'might' not be fully licensed. Is that really enough for local law enforcement to go along with it? A lot of the coverage I've read about BSA raids seems to imply that the business involved went along with the raid voluntarily, and I have trouble understanding why any business would do so.
This is the oldest dupe I've seen on slashdot!
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
Seriously, this is old.
"It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him." - Tolkien
DO call the tip line with company names. Piss off enough of the companies and yes, they will switch to Apple or Linux rather than deal with these nazis. At this time, there is not enough harassment, just intimidation.
I think this is great news for FOSS people. Up until now, most software vendors have been quite generous on their piracy tolerance. If these companies start pushing it hard, and making people pay, things will start changing.
Many people just download photoshop because that's what they know. If they have to pay for it, there will be a HUGE shift to GIMP. And that's even more true with Microsoft stuff, at least in Spain. I know very few people who have bought a copy of Windows (not counting what came with the computer). But it's easy to pirate, so they go for it. If they faced fines of 1000 euro for it (or had to pay 300 to buy it in the first place), a lot of people would consider linux. Now, both are free (in practice), so price is not a problem when choosing. Factor that in, and things look very different.
So, good news, people will start using what they need, and not the professional (and expensive) tool for home stuff. And that usually means open source.
Tis women makes us love, Tis Love that makes us sad, Tis sadness makes us drink, And drinking makes us mad.
Submitted by 'Ron Paul Dennis Kucinich'
Oh my god, Slashdot has become Reddit
-nick
Five years is an awfully long time ago. Heads up, editors :)
If you're the target of the BSA, I don't feel as much remorse...
If you don't have the money to pay for the software your business use, you shouldn't use the software in the first place.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
something with a handgun and a foot?
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
| Yep, if you read TFA, that's what they did.
Thats funny, I read TFA and linux was not mentioned at all..
"open source" > "linux"
Ball should have paid for their software.
I've mostly worked in desktop support for over 1/3rd of my life so far. I don't do cubicles or offices anymore unless it's a favor for someone that's not going to be a pain in the ass, or ask me to do back breaking work (like breaking my back lifting an 200lb IBM netfinity server onto a rack). No no, those days are over.
Over those years though I can't recount how many times a customer would need a windows re-install, or an office re-install, whatever. I'd ask for the original CD and they'd tell me "Don't you have a copy?"
The "Don't you just have a copy?" people were the same people that would nag and haggle me on my billing, like it was some sort of open air arab market, instead of a indoor air conditioned "professional" workplace.
These days i've all but quit doing IT type support, cept for a few special cases. My current business/company uses windows, and i've gotten legit copies from various places. A few programmer friends got me copies of XP from the MS employee store for $35 each, which I have running on 2 machines. I also purchased a copy for another machine for $99. The rest of the machines at my business are running Linux.
Open Office does fine for me.
Maybe because I started off in IT and knew what type jerks steal stuff, I made a personal choice that I didn't want to be like them.
we're congratulating a company for copying software from major vendors and they got caught, and they should be treated like some savour? I'm sick to death of hearing companies feel they are the victim when they COPY software without paying for it. You can bet your bottom dollar Ernie Ball wouldn't work for free by giving out guitars so why should a software company?
The fact is, they willingly copied software and got caught and they paid the consequences. Although it seems based on the article it was only 8% unauthorised, they only changed over when they were caught, if they were really supportive of open source they would of moved off their propriety systems long ago.
I work in IT, and I pay for software that I use, if I can't afford it I find something else - its no excuse to copy it.
Nothing to see here move along.
When I was looking at Yahoo news today I saw no less than 3 articles in the Technology section about the BSA. Seems like they're tricking the news services into running free scare-tactics PR for them.
"Where quality is like a dead stinking rat - you just can't miss it."
OK, there are adequate substitutes for Windows, Photoshop, and MSOffice (especially OxygenOffice), but it is real hard to find good OSS substitutes for Visio, AutoCad and MSProject. A few years ago, AutoCad was listed as the second most used application in the World. The OSS substitute would have to be absolutely awesome to compete with AutoCad. This may be one of the best-designed apps in existence, the tech support is pretty good, the legacy is humongous, and everyone is educated in it.
Now my needs are bit modest, so I get by with SketchUp, and Alibre, (although my versions are not free, they do offer free versions), but a major Engineering company might have a rough time finding an easy-to-use substitute.
"The mind works quicker than you think!"
The problem I see is it's not just that. You don't just need money to pay for the software you use, you need money to pay to keep track of it for X years and all the other associated crap. And some of those license thingies are kinda grey or complicated - per server, per client, concurrent clients, users (this could be vague), concurrent users, host, CPU (socketted), CPU core, MHz etc. Not just that, they can change from year to year. IIRC Windows XP Home was previously not for multiprocessor systems, but when multicore x86 CPUs came out, Microsoft said they meant socketed CPUs.
;)
"The BSA considers software pirated if a company can't produce a receipt for it, no matter how long ago it was purchased. Software boxes or certificates of authenticity are no help, because the BSA argues the software could have been obtained from an illegitimate source."
Does that mean even if you have Windows XP and MS Office certs stuck on the PC with a 1:1 cert:install mapping it doesn't count? What idiocy is that? I know lots of businesses will have difficulty retaining receipts and records longer than a few years. Might be in a box somewhere but nobody left in the company will know about it.
Whether the PC was stolen or not, if the cert+ key is real Microsoft etc already have got paid for it.
It could even be a gift, believe me people do donate software. I'm sure many churches and charitable organisations get such stuff. You don't always get receipts for that.
Thing is the BSA might have a different agenda from the companies it represents.
I heard the Microsoft boss in my country handled piracy cases differently - he told off his staff who apparently were going around taking people to court etc. Basically his opinion was these people were happy users of Microsoft software, all his staff needed to do was to convince them to license. Which shouldn't be too hard - "Hi, would you like to pay the $$$$$ per infringing copy (plus bosses risk imprisonment) or $$$ per licensed copy?".
Instant sale. Don't even need to send them any fancy media or boxes. Don't even need to send people to help install and configure the software - they've already done all that work themselves.
Only send in the thugs if they refuse to license after you find out they are noncompliant.
Over those years though I can't recount how many times a customer would need a windows re-install, or an office re-install, whatever. I'd ask for the original CD and they'd tell me "Don't you have a copy?"
At the same time, did you insist on a copy of the sales reciept?
The BSA is considering copies with certificates of authenticity as sketchy if they are missing the sales reciepts. At home, anything off warranty is missing the sales reciept. The news of the BSA audits is definately encouraging me to go 100% legit. I have a machine that came with Windows that was given to me brand new. I don't have a reciept. It is currently dual boot, but the next hard drive replacement won't include the bundled software.
The software license for some software is licensed for installation on only one PC. The license for some other software is licensed for any PC you or your family has, and may be freely copied and given away as long as you comply with the requirements of the license, such as providing a copy of the source code.
Guess which software license I prefer.
The truth shall set you free!
Apparently everyone who knows the case agrees that Ernie Ball didn't intend to pirate. Things like that happen in businesses, especially small ones. Responsibilities move and the software moves with them. People install random stuff without authorization. Receipts get lost (I understand that the BSA requires not only proof of licens but proof of purchase, as well).
Saying "Don't pirate" is easy. Getting a company of any size to reach 100% compliance is utterly painful. It's no different than being autdited by the IRS -- they're going to get you for something.
Put identity in the browser.
Last time I checked the licencing for the student/teacher edition of Powerpoint (I believe 2003) it allowed installation on three seperate machines.
Then there's the per device and per user licencing.
It'd be easy to keep track of if the only licencing model out there was "one key, one system" but in order to appease big businesses there's volume licencing, and that spread out into other different models. The fact that there are businesses out there who exist simply to keep track of licences says there's something dreadfully wrong with the current system.
After all, if it's good enough to be Boeing's primary 3D CAD tool, it should work for autocad users. Not sure if it's available for Linux yet, but Sun's Solaris will run it.
Check it out here.
And illegal does not mean wrong. In this case, the law is deeply wrong, so they were wrongfully fined. The law does not determine right and wrong. Copyright should be abolished. http://questioncopyright.org/
No, a company was fined for not being able to prove they were not using Microsoft software illegally.
Although the EULA doesn't state they must provide a receipt for the software, or that the "Certificate of Authenticity" doesn't certify that the software is authentic (go figure), that is the standard to which Microsoft holds its customers on penalty of lawsuit or (more commonly) extortion.
I received two letters from the BSA in 2003, both warning me that I could be liable for "hundreds of thousands of dollars" if they audit my business and I am unable to prove that every copy of their member company's software was legally purchased. They helpfully offered, "Can your business afford that risk?"
Y'know, I couldn't. I switched to free-as-in-freedom software.
Maybe they would want to end up like him.
I read an interview with Ernie Ball after the raid. He DID switch to Red Hat Linux, and by his estimate saves $100K per year. He thanked microsoft for the money he is now saving.
My rights don't need management.
Looking at a shelf next to my desk I see software I purchased and until recently I had a complete paper trail. Having learned I need not keep all my business records for tax purposes I have been shredding old receipts, etc that are too old to be of interest to the IRS. Now despite the fact that I have not run a Windows machine for business (Linux only here) since 2001 or 2002 and the software resides in only their respective boxes, I might be, now, technically in non-compliance. Why should I have to worry about rules that are more excessive than I need to follow for business, tax purposes?
I knew there was a problem when companies started listing 'licensing engineers' in their schedules of rates.
do the abacuses run Linux?
I never spellcheck and I freely admit it. Save your karma for more worthwhile "lol erorrs" replies
Would be interesting to see a follow-up to see if they:
1) Are still using open source software, and don't have any Microsoft products
2) Are in violation of any licenses. (After all, that's what they got busted for in the first place-- you can violate an open source license too.)
But this on Slashdot, it's a non-story. It was news in 2002.
Comment of the year
While the GPL licenses are some of the more complex in OSS, the provisions affect distribution, not use. Mr. Ball can *use* GPL stuff all he wants without worrying about licensing issues. It is only when he develops the Ball Instrument Manufacturing accounting package based on GPL software and wants to distribute it that he has to be careful.
That's what I don't understand either and perhaps somebody could explain it to me. How the hell do they gain access to all of your systems if you refuse to let them in? Are they going to sue you and force you to turn it all over in discovery?
Has anybody tried to fight them on a legal front? It would seem to me that just by showing up to court (even if pro say) and answering their motions you could drag out the discovery process for months. Months that you could use to find any out of compliance software and fix it -- or better yet, switch to OSS if that's an option for your business.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
You can't take the sky from me...
That's what I don't understand either and perhaps somebody could explain it to me. How the hell do they gain access to all of your systems if you refuse to let them in? Are they going to sue you and force you to turn it all over in discovery?
Yes.Has anybody tried to fight them on a legal front? It would seem to me that just by showing up to court (even if pro say) and answering their motions you could drag out the discovery process for months. Months that you could use to find any out of compliance software and fix it -- or better yet, switch to OSS if that's an option for your business.
1. Switching at that point would not matter if they found out through discovery that you previously were not in compliance.2. Being a pro-se defendant is time consuming, and time is money in business. It would probably be cheaper (both in terms of time and, of course, effectiveness) to hire competent council, at which point it's likely that time is not your ally - certainly when compared to the plaintiff.
The basic pitch begins like this: Nice business you got here... it'd be a shame if something happened to it. Works for other organizations than the BSA.
I would love to see a judge tell the BSA: OK, BSA, who exactly is your witness? Please have him fill out a sworn statement outlining each and every instance of infringement you plan on suing over and exactly how the infringement occurred. I will have a special master investigate. Unless I allow the suit to go forward you will not see the results of the investigation. If he is telling the truth I will let the suit proceed. If he is lying I will charge him with criminal perjury, fine you for bringing a frivolous suit, and I'll make sure the news media find out you tried to use the courts to screw over an innocent company. If I can't tell if he is telling the truth or lying I will dismiss the case without prejudice.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
It's going to take about 34 years, but on the upside, I'll have very muscular fingers.
[ think ]