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NASA Snaps Mysterious "Night-Shining" Clouds

coondoggie writes to tell us that NASA has captured some pretty impressive images of the Alluring noctilucent (or "night-shining") clouds. These clouds are made up of ice crystals and dust and are formed at high altitudes near the poles. "Very little is known about how these clouds form over the poles, why they are being seen more frequently and at lower latitudes than ever before, or why they have been growing brighter. AIM will observe two complete cloud seasons over both poles, documenting an entire life cycle of the shiny clouds for the first time. 'It is clear that these clouds are changing, a sign that a part of our atmosphere is changing and we do not understand how, why or what it means,' stated AIM principal investigator James Russell III of Hampton University, Hampton, Va. 'These observations suggest a connection with global change in the lower atmosphere and could represent an early warning that our Earth environment is being changed.'"

23 of 198 comments (clear)

  1. "steamed hams"? by User+956 · · Score: 5, Funny

    writes to tell us that NASA has captured some pretty impressive images of the Alluring noctilucent (or "night-shining") clouds.

    At this time of day? localized entirely in your kitchen?

    --
    The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
    1. Re:"steamed hams"? by letxa2000 · · Score: 3, Funny

      'These observations suggest a connection with global change in the lower atmosphere and could represent an early warning that our Earth environment is being changed.'"

      No, that's Al Gore's job. Now you're going to have to take away his Nobel prize and give to the clouds. :)

    2. Re:"steamed hams"? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      could represent an early warning that our Earth environment is being changed
      It amazes that people are still looking for warnings, as if the actual warming of the earth's atmosphere, and the fact that there is more agreement among climate scientists on this issue than almost any other issue in all of science, just isn't enough.

      I mean, I understand that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, but do we really need to wait until the house burns to the ground before we'll agree that the bitch is on fire? Isn't the smoke rising through the floorboards enough? It's amazing the number the oil companies and the right-wing media have done on us. Every other developed country in the world is at least sitting down and agreeing to try to minimize carbon emissions except the US. And we act all shocked and hurt when the rest of the world thinks we're total assholes.
      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
  2. Heh... by Otter · · Score: 4, Insightful
    ...stated AIM principal investigator James Russell III of Hampton University, Hampton, Va. 'These observations suggest a connection with global change in the lower atmosphere and could represent an early warning that our Earth environment is being changed."

    That may well be entirely true, but I recognize a cousin to the "...and therefore may lead to new treatments for cancer." that molecular biologists ritualistically slap at the end of every grant application.

    1. Re:Heh... by moderatorrater · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I disagree. I look at Global Warming as the cause like I look to the latest code change as the cause of a never before seen software bug. The chances that a new phenomena is occurring in the atmosphere that's never occurred before being completely unrelated to another widespread, unprecedented phenomena is relatively low. They're not just tacking on a buzzword, they're drawing the obvious link.

    2. Re:Heh... by huckamania · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I was going to mod some of the other posts...

      First, Global Warming is passe, try Global Climate Change. That's a better term for your crowd because when it snows in April you can relate it to Global Climate Change. It has the added benefit of being completely true since no one is going to argue for Global Climate Stasis.

      Second, science is about confirming links, obvious (to you) or not. Not that this study is going to actual confirm anything. Studying something for 2 years will not allow them or you or anyone to draw any conclusions about whether Global Climate Change is the cause.

      Third, the conclusion that this is a new phenomenon is on shaky ground. Same can be said for the ozone hole. A better label would be a phenomenon we've never noticed before. I'm sure one of Newton's contemporaries probably labeled gravity as a new phenomenon, as if everyone was floating around in zero G before the apple fell on Wayne's head.

    3. Re:Heh... by Planesdragon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      When people say temperature decreases are part of global warming it is a cop out for global warming proponents who really don't know what is going on which makes them right no matter what happens. Convenient isn't it? Scary. Not convenient.

      The "Climate Crisis" interpretation is that, due to the sudden rise of atmospheric carbon, we're in danger of not just a few degrees of warmth or sea level jumping a hundred feet, but a cascading series of feedback loops that will render Earth wholly uninhabitable.

      We know the temperature is going up. We know that carbon in the air is going up. We know that we're tossing an awful lot of carbon into the air We can see a clear correlation between temperature and carbon going back a few thousand years.

      Don't YOU think that's enough to, I don't know, stop tossing carbon into the air and see what happens? If it turns out to do nothing, we can just let you burn dinosaurs again. I know I'd rather lose my next paycheck than die.
  3. Best quote ever! by LingNoi · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It is clear that these clouds are changing, a sign that a part of our atmosphere is changing and we do not understand how, why or what it means,
    That has to be the first honest answer I have read from someone on our climate, ever.

    We hear too often from these climate "experts", finally someone is ready to admit that our climate is so big and complex that we don't know exactly how it all works.
    1. Re:Best quote ever! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Ask any atmospheric physicist how things like that work and they will almost certainly tell you: We don't know.

      If there's one thing I learned during my Atmospheric Physics course at university, it's that we only have somewhat good ideas, or decent approximations of how some of these things work in the best case, and vague approximations or no fricking clue in the worst cases.

      This is why it bothers me so much when people talk about global climate change as if they know what is going to happen. Is it happening? Yeah! Is it probably not good? Yeah! Do we even know enough to be crying end of the world? No!

    2. Re:Best quote ever! by Atario · · Score: 4, Funny

      exactly how it all works
      You don't need to know the exact capillary constriction/dilation response curve under all types of trauma to know that it's probably best not to whack yourself in the head with an axe handle.
      --
      "A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
    3. Re:Best quote ever! by moosesocks · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Precisely.

      Atmospheric Science heavily relies upon taking what little data we *do* know, and extrapolating as much useful information as we possibly can out of it.

      And it actually works pretty well... "anomalies" that have turned up in forecast models very often turn out to actually exist in reality. It was this way that we determined that a considerable amount of ash and pollution produced by industrial activity in Asia gets blown all the way to North America. It was so counterintuitive that nobody had ever thought to test for it before the forecast model suggested that it was happening quite readily.

      If you also want to see something really scary, read up on the CFC Ozone depleting reaction. If it weren't for a few seasonal processes that restore the Ozone, and more importantly, wash out the CFCs, we'd have burned off our entire atmosphere in just a few years.

      --
      -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
  4. These clouds are a clear symptom of global warming by Malevolent+Tester · · Score: 5, Funny

    Even more worryingly, early reports suggest they may contain Dihydrogen Monoxide.

    --
    If you haven't made a developer cry, you've wasted a day.
  5. More pictures by Xelios · · Score: 5, Informative

    http://www.spaceweather.com/nlcs/gallery2007_page9.htm has a Noctilucent Cloud gallery. I haven't seen them yet myself, but it'll be interesting to see if AIM manages to find an explanation for them. It's an intriguing mystery!

    --
    Murphey's fighting Occam, and we're in the stands.
  6. And I immediately think... by JK_the_Slacker · · Score: 5, Funny

    "All right, Beatrice, there was no alien. The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus."

    --
    I'm waiting for a "-1 somepeoplejustshouldn'tgetmodprivileges" meta-moderation.
  7. Visible in Ohio. by mpathetiq · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've seen these a few times over the last years. The examples I saw weren't as brilliant as the ones in the summary (more along the lines of http://www.spaceweather.com/nlcs/gallery2007_page1.htm), but they are still very beautiful. I never realized they were a special subset of clouds.

  8. Re:While little is known about these clouds... by sumdumass · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It is? Could it be that they are cause by the same thing causing global warming and you are placing the context in the wrong area?

    Something that has simply amazed me for a long time now is Freezing Fog. Maybe understanding that could lead to a better understanding of these clouds and your conclusion of global warming.

  9. It's all about knowing how to get the dollars by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Global warming is the big scare in the climate world right now, so it is how you get money for environmental research. You write a proposal to study some owl that isn't endangered but might become so that nobody gives a shit about and you get no money. However you change it up and talk about how you want to study the impact of global warming on it, bam you gots money.

    Same shit with terrorism in other areas. Can't get money for an anti-crime initiative? Just make it an anti-terror initiative! You get money thrown at you. Hell, ConEd did that with their new superconducting power line. They wanted government help building the thing so they spun it is being resistant to terrorist attack. Maybe true, but that isn't why they are doing it. They are doing it because the old system failed due to overload, not attack.

    It is sadly common in the world, and research is no different. You find what is hot in a given field and you'll see all kinds of shit that shouldn't be getting tied in to that to try and get money.

  10. These Clouds are Filamentary by pln2bz · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If you go through these pictures ...

    http://www.spaceweather.com/nlcs/gallery2007_page9.htm

    Nearly every single cloud structure is filamentary. People will surely say it's blasphemous to use the E-word, but structures like these ...

    http://www.spaceweather.com/nlcs/images2007/16jun07/Heden1.jpg

    Are what you get in the laboratory with *electrical* plasmas. It's the same structure that you get in a novelty plasma globe. These look exactly like Birkeland Currents to me. I'm not even sure that "clouds" is the proper term for these things, given their proximity to space. Even the overhead view from the article in question demonstrates filamentation.

    --
    "A man cannot begin to learn that which he thinks he already knows." --Epictetus, 1st Century A.D.
    1. Re:These Clouds are Filamentary by DerekLyons · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Despite their 'proximity' to space, they are still deep within the atmosphere and at a pressure considerably above that typical of plasmas. Looks can be decieving.

  11. they are coordinating from behind the moon by gambolt · · Score: 3, Funny

    when the clouds are positioned for coverage around the globe . . .

    checkmate

  12. One theory: X-rays by ericferris · · Score: 5, Informative

    One theory trying to explain these clouds is the X-ray activity of the sun. The sun is a highly variable star when it comes to X-rays. During its 11-year cycle, the X-ray flux emitted by the sun varies by a factor of 15, with ferocious bursts. We are at a solar minimum, so we see few sun spots and the X-ray activity is also lower on average.

    I found an article that is short and readable explaining the link between solar cycles and X-rays: http://solar.physics.montana.edu/nuggets/2000/000407/000407.html. Note that the X-ray activity can vary hugely from the current solar minimum to, say, the 2000-2001 solar max.

    The problem is that we don't have that much data on it yet. We need to accumulate several cycles worth of observations before we can answer these questions:
    * When does the sun emit X-rays? Is it linked to sun spots?
    * What do solar X-rays do to the upper atmosphere?

    The X-rays are absorbed by the ionosphere (fortunately for life forms), and this energy transfer is not well known. During each solar minimum, less X-rays arrive in the upper atmosphere, which therefore should cool down. Is it the reason why we see these noctilucent clouds? If so, they should start disappearing in a couple of years, when sun spots return.

    This is a very interesting keyhole on a yet unknown mechanism. I hope we'll see updates on the subject.

    --
    Fantasy: http://ferrisfantasy.blogspot.com/
  13. Interpreting the data to fit with the times by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Very little is known about how these clouds form over the poles, why they are being seen more frequently and at lower latitudes than ever before, or why they have been growing brighter. AIM will observe two complete cloud seasons over both poles, documenting an entire life cycle of the shiny clouds for the first time."

    "These observations suggest a connection with global change in the lower atmosphere and could represent an early warning that our Earth environment is being changed."

    * It could also suggest that documentation has been poor in the past (ref. quote 1) and that the higher rate is because more effort is spent on registering the climate in general.

    * It could also suggest a _purely local_ non-human-related change. After all, the middle ages warm period has been discounted by climatologists as a purely half-a-hemisphere local phenomenon. There is hence no reason why the climate should not change in one region of the world alone.

    * It could also suggest a _purely local_ human-related change, e.g. if it is related to soot in the atmosphere, or NOx

    * It could also suggest a _cyclical_ event, either globally or locally, which the expressions used ('is being changed') alludes away from.

    Simply saying "The observations could suggest that XYZ" is an unprofessional statement. All observations could suggest a large number of things - so if it is just a suggestion and you are a professional, do not make a statement on it, while if it is very likely to be, then say that it is likely instead.

  14. Re:These clouds are a clear symptom of global warm by dgatwood · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In fact, the electrolyte imbalance caused by consuming too much DHMO can kill you, too.

    --

    Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.