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Canadian DMCA Bill Withdrawn

ToriaUru writes to let us know that Michael Geist is reporting that the Canadian Minister of Industry will not be introducing the proposed Canadian Digital Millennium Copyright Act legislation as scheduled. That proposed legislation, discussed here a couple of weeks back, is now reaching Canada's mainstream press. Geist doesn't speculate on why the legislation is being withdrawn, but it could have something to do with the massive popular outcry against the proposal that Geist helped to orchestrate.

36 of 198 comments (clear)

  1. MPAA's response: by zonky · · Score: 4, Funny
    1. Re:MPAA's response: by corsec67 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Too bad they had to censor that song because of the FCC. First amendment, whats that?

      --
      If I have nothing to hide, don't search me
    2. Re:MPAA's response: by B3ryllium · · Score: 2, Funny

      No, their response would be:

      "And it would have worked, too, if it wasn't for those meddling kids!!"

  2. well done by geekoid · · Score: 3, Insightful

    All of you that raised there voice, gratz.

    The rest of you that just whined but could take the time to actually help do something:
    You got luck this time, you leeching mother fuckers.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    1. Re:well done by ToriaUru · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yes, thanks, and the praise should mostly go to Dr. Geist, who's fighting it tooth and nail. And the others on the band-wagon. We all need to keep writing the M.P.'s, the Ministers, the letters to the editors. Keep it out there, in public. Not hidden/forgotten. :)

      --
      Toria
    2. Re:well done by bouchecl · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually, I was going to print and send in letters to my MP (John Godfrey, Liberal), the PM, the Minister of Industry (Jim Prentice), Minister of Canadian Heritage (Josee Verner), and get >25 people from my school to sign a petition to send to my MP on Monday, but I probably won't now. I could take the time to actually do something, but it's easier to wait until a weekday, where you have more contact with other people. Actually, the bill hasn't been withdrawn, it has been delayed, according to prof. Geist (be wary of /. headlines and read TFA anyway). I think your petition drive and the letter writing campaign is still in order because it could come back in 2008.
    3. Re:well done by p0tat03 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Tell him that you will not vote for a representative who cannot represent the views of his constituents, and regretfully inform him that he cannot count on your vote in the next election. That's all. Encourage more people in your community to speak to your MP about the same matter - if enough people show their interest in the issue, your MP *will* do something, or risk losing his seat shortly.

  3. the usual by TheSHAD0W · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's the usual. Legislators listen to lobbyists, at least until their constituents protest their heads off. Then they'll bother to read the actual bill.

    1. Re:the usual by schon · · Score: 5, Informative

      Then they'll bother to read the actual bill. Contrary to belief, there was no actual bill to read.

      This was about a bill that was going to be tabled this week. Nobody knew what was in it, except for insiders (one of whom apparently leaked details to Geist.)

      This shows pretty much that Geist's source is credible - if the bill wasn't as bad as he said, then Minister would have tabled it, and made Geist look foolish.
    2. Re:the usual by ToriaUru · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yeah, well, apparently, Dr. Geist looked carefully at what the Minister said. He also noticed what was in the throne speech. If you read this entry of his http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/2295/125/ you'll see where he noticed what was mentioned and what *wasn't* mentioned. Therefore inferring what it contained. Also, in this post of Dr. Geist's from a House of Commons debate http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/2321/125/ Again, what was spoken of, and what *wasn't* mentioned. Therefore inferring it. So, as to whether or not he's being fed info from the Minister's office directly? I'd not know that. But we can always hazard a guess. :) I'd say "yeah, likely".

      --
      Toria
    3. Re:the usual by Kristoph · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I would wager that in this case, even the legislator did not read the bill (which was probably written for him), until it became clear this could become a major issue for the government.

      Then once he read it he realized it was as bad as everyone made it out to be he withdrew it before anyone else could read it to spare himself and the government the controversy.

      ]{

    4. Re:the usual by Jucius+Maximus · · Score: 2, Informative
      I actually wrote a letter to the industry minister Jim Prentice protesting this new copyright issue.

      I'm not sure if he even read my fax or what but I do feel a lot better knowing that I actually said something and did something instead of just cheerleading on message boards.

      -Proud to be Canadian!

  4. Monopolies... by eldurbarn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We live in a time when "the common man" is well aware that business monopolies have a solid, historical track record of abusing "the little guy".

    Copyright is simply a government enforced monopoly: allowing the copyright holder to have a monopoly on that particular piece of IP.

    Like many of you, I am also a producer of intellectual property. Unlike big business, however, I don't see the need for me to have a monopoly. I am more encouraged to produce when I cannot simply rest on my butt and earn money for work that I did years ago.

    As a consumer of intellectual property (gads, how I hate that term!), I simply cannot see how it benefits me to let my government grant big companies a monopoly on what is rapidly becoming our common, shared culture.

    --
    -Eldurbarn
    1. Re:Monopolies... by QuantumG · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The founders of the Massachusetts Bay Colony also understood the danger of monopolies and decreed that of these none would be granted by government and those which arose naturally would be challenged and restricted by government. Unfortunately, they let their ideology slip and permitted 7 year long patents to be granted to encourage knowledgeable workers to immigrate to the colony. Many took up the offer and after using their 7 year long monopoly to establish themselves in the community, they fought to have their patents extended to 14 years.. then they started filing the same patent twice but with slight improvements.. the came copyright.. then came patent on all sorts of things, so many of which were hard to validate.. then the patent office dropped the requirements for working prototypes.. then the copyright office dropped the requirement for copyright registration.. then copyright terms got extended.. then they got extended again.. etc, etc.

      "Slippery slope" is such a nice way to describe it.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    2. Re:Monopolies... by eldurbarn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Goodness! Is that me you're talking to?

      I make my living, completely and entirely, as a result of the IP I produce. I write books, scripts & music, I design performances, etc. I write software and web applications. I'm also a performer. This is my bread and butter.

      As for monopoly, I stand by what I said. If you have one company who holds copyright to a significant fraction of our current culture, and markets that material as culture to perpetuate it for their own financial gains, and the copyright shall exist from this day forward until our grandchildren are all grown up and that copyright is enforced by law, then that is, indeed, a monopoly. To endorse such laws is selling out ourselves, our children and our culture.

      --
      -Eldurbarn
  5. Here's how it will PASS... and its underway. by DaedalusHKX · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Like all unpopular legislature, first its tried legitimately. Secondly it is passed by governmental or bureaucratic fiat. They will simply make a regulation to cover it if actual legislation does not work. BATFE did it with guns in the USA, DEA did it with drugs in the USA, FDA does it to various foods, OSHA does it with workplaces (though the enforcement, from my days doing construction is haphazard at worst and selective at best).

    So, it will go to a small blip or nonexistent blip on the radar, and a year down the road, the RCMP will be kicking in doors or seizing equipment based on a treaty ratified with Bun-fuk-u-stan, which states that they have to enforce whatever treaty was accepted for the "benefits of Canda's socialized welfare system".

    That or the UN, intergovernmental panel on climate change will discover that Britney's pirated MP3's are actually causing global warming or costing Britney so much in lost royalties that she can't afford to feed those starving children that the UN has failed to care for over the years (Kofi Anan's son, however, managed to buy himself a pair of Lamborghinis with the money he received as "salary")

    (And we know that a bunch of politically appointed "scientists" and bureaucrats are going to be FAR more correct on telling us why the earth is getting warmer each morning and colder each evening, because that damn glowing orb in the sky that has had variable output over several million/billion years is just too insignificant to really matter... its wooden stoves that heat up the earth and diesel engines, so shut down that goddamn sun and stop wasting that heat!!)

    --
    " What luck for rulers that men do not think" - Adolf Hitler
    1. Re:Here's how it will PASS... and its underway. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      "the UN, intergovernmental panel on climate change will discover that Britney's pirated MP3's are actually causing global warming"

      I am fully supportive of any UN action that results in less Britney Spears. Pro-piracy, anti-piracy, pro-climate-change, anti-climate-change ... doesn't matter ... if it results in less Britney Spears I'll sign the treaty.

    2. Re:Here's how it will PASS... and its underway. by Dipsomaniac · · Score: 2, Interesting

      When you have an axe to grind, all you see is grindstones.

  6. Good news, everyone! by Citizen+of+Earth · · Score: 5, Funny

    Wow, this is almost as good news to Canada as Global Warming is!

    1. Re:Good news, everyone! by Viceroy+Potatohead · · Score: 2, Funny

      Wow, this is almost as good news to Canada as Global Warming is! To Hell with that! Where am I supposed to live once my igloo melts, huh? Global warming is effing with our housing markets here, gawdamit.

      On a side note, I was curious: I ran ' "igloo for sale" ' in Google and got 910 results. ' "Igloos for sale" ' got 1970. Granted, no actual igloos are for sale AFAICT, but still... Who. in reality, ever has a need to say those phrases? It reminds me of George Carlin's thoughts on shoving a red hot poker up your ass (I'm too lazy to link).
  7. Re:the evil person in me... by ToriaUru · · Score: 5, Funny

    Now, now, in Canada we are civilized! Let's just lob snow balls at him, okay? ;)

    --
    Toria
  8. It's hit the news-wire now! by ToriaUru · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's now on the Canadian Press newswire. http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5jvt3LW3hjo1fIaaiwZACBiZ0R3wA So, it'll likely be picked up by mainstream press in other countries, perhaps, now. All helping to publicize the fact that in Canada, we FIGHT for our rights! It is the True North, strong and free, after all ;)

    --
    Toria
  9. Thank a minority government by earthforce_1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Thanks to the razor thin minority government that exists here right now, they cannot be arrogant and a few thousand determined people actually can make a difference. This is the way government should be - it should be scared of the people, not vice-versa. This plus an alert press ensures they do not dare try to slide a fast one under the table for well heeled friends. One massively unpopular bill could tip the scales against them and they damned well know it.

    I don't live anywhere near Calgary, but I was one of the ones who (politely but firmly) e-mailed him with my objections to a Canadian DMCA and how C-60 loomed large in my mind last election.

    If the current government can ignore the Kyoto accords, they sure as heck can choose to ignore WIPO as well.

    --
    My rights don't need management.
    1. Re:Thank a minority government by Jester998 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I also sent an email (and sent a carbon copy via post ... hardcopy gets much more attention from politicians!). I don't live anywhere near Calgary either (Ottawa, in fact), but I definitely felt strongly enough about the issue to write to him.

      Below is the text of what I sent:

      --

      Dear Hon. Jim Prentice:

      I regret that I am unable to attend your open-house session tomorrow, 08 Dec 2007, in person; however, I would like to take this opportunity to express my concern over a proposed piece of legislation regarding Canadian copyright, namely the so-called "Canadian DMCA".

      I work as an IT professional, however my background is in pure Computer Science. I often spend time performing security research. A Canadian version of the US DMCA legislation greatly concerns me -- one needs to look no further than the 'US v. Elcomsoft & Sklyarov' case to see why.

      References: http://w2.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Elcomsoft/us_v_sklyarov_faq.html
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmitry_Sklyarov

      In this instance, legitimate security research was suppressed, and the researcher arrested at the will of a large corporation. Rather than acknowledge & fix the weaknesses in their product's security, Adobe chose to use the DMCA as a sledgehammer to suppress disclosure of information they did not like.

      This has obvious chilling effects -- as an analogue, if a researcher were to find a weakness in the encryption used for e.g. online banking, is it reasonable to arrest the researcher rather than fix the weakness? To my mind, it is infinitely preferable to acknowledge, fix, and continuously improve security through legitimate research. Those with criminal intent will search for these weaknesses in any event -- it is much better to discover and fix the issues in a transparent manner. As the saying goes, "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns." hold very true here.

      Other kinds of DMCA abuse is well-documented and widespread. A few simple Google searches (e.g. "DMCA abuse") very quickly turn up many sources of information. This legislation has been used to suppress reviews or opinions which are negative towards large companies -- technically, these should be handled as a civil lawsuit for slander or libel (if they are, in fact, untrue); however, many large corporations choose to invoke a DMCA takedown notice instead, as it forces the content hoster to take down the material immediately, rather than waiting for a judgement from a court of law. It is important to note that it is *corporations* that send these takedown notices, not the courts. Under this model, 'justice' is a distant wish.

      There was some research done in 2005 by the University of South Carolina which showed that 30% of DMCA takedown notices sent by corporations were improper, and even potentially illegal (unfortunately, the document seems to have been taken offline, or moved, but the previous URL was http://lawweb.usc.edu/news/releases/2005/legalFlaws.html). This is a stunningly high figure -- laws are traditionally written to ensure that there is an onus of proof before charges are filed, and that due legal process is followed. The rules of jurisprudence are critical to ensure the equitable operation of any society, but overly broad, overly powerful laws like the US DMCA allow companies with deep legal pockets to run rampant, and allows them to run a private campaign of fear and intimidation.

      I wish to point out that I am not pro-piracy, but rather am opposed to legislation (and legislators) funded or supported by corporations. This is the very antithesis of a democracy, and is the current state in the US. Canada is already dangerously close to that abyss, and I do not wish to

    2. Re:Thank a minority government by big_paul76 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That's some nice work. I also wrote a snail-mail copy, a friend of mine who worked for federal public works once told me that for every letter the feds receive, they assume somewhere between 1000 and 10,000 people also feel the same way, but didn't write.

      here's what I went with:
      First I'd like to point out a fundamental shift in the way copyright law functions. Before the age of networked computers, copyright law functioned as a restriction on publishers by authors, more like an industrial regulation. If you wanted to have a business publishing books/movies/etc, you had to accept this as the 'cost of doing business'.

      However, in an age of networked computers, copyright law functions as a restriction on ordinary citizens by publishing companies, and is something citizens must accept by the act of reading something.

      This is a fundamental shift in the function of the law, and the enforcement of it requires invasions into the private life and freedoms of each and every one of us.

      The publishing industries claim that this is necessary to preserve their business model, but I ask you, since when is it the business of government to preserve an obsolete business model? The 'content publishers' like the MPAA, RIAA, and the CRIA believe that if a person has made a profit off the public in the past, that it is the role of government and courts to guarantee that income in perpetuity. This belief is not supported by statute or case law. When the automobile first came into production, were manufacturers of buggy whips able to sue Ford and General Motors? Were producers of whale oil able to prevent the production and sale of the electric light bulb?

      Furthermore, the copyright holders claim they act for the betterment of artists, but let's be honest: The MPAA/RIAA/CRIA's members have the same relationship to artists that a pimp has to a prostitute. Does the Conservative government feel that this is the sort of relationship that Parliament ought to preserve?

      --
      The plural form of "anecdote" is "anecdotes", not "evidence".
  10. Not withdrawn, delayed by apankrat · · Score: 4, Informative
    As per Michael Geist's own comment -

    I can't say with certainty why the bill has been delayed, nor whether it will be for a day or two, or for longer. I think that this presents an excellent opportunity for Prentice to engage in broader consultation and hold off introducing the bill until 2008.

    --
    3.243F6A8885A308D313
  11. On the other hand by Geof · · Score: 2, Informative

    How much stronger it looks when in a single week 10,000 people organize themselves in protest based on incomplete information. You can always contact your MP twice - once to say you are concerned about the bill, the second time to oppose it. I'm sure those of us who did write fully intend to follow up when necessary.

    And we did know something about the bill. We knew a ban on DRM circumvention technology was in it because the government announced it would implement the WIPO treaty. That in itself is bad enough.

  12. Nothing wrong with copyright by daBass · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I do not see anything wrong with copyright; if I spend a lot of time and money into creating something that can so easily be copied, there should be some protection against that. I also have no problem with RIAA and MPAA going after those who blatantly share music and movies; just because the industry make enough money to be profitable through their preferred distribution channels does not mean I should just get it for free. Eventually most people will be connected to the internet so fast and sharing will be made so easy that nobody will go through the legitimate means of obtaining the content they want.

    That said, I DO have a problem with legislation like the DMCA or any DRM. If I have paid for a perpetual license for personal and household use, including any guests present, for content, I should not be limited to how I should be allowed to store and play this content. Yes, giving a copy of a movie to a friend is bad, but moving it to my media server and letting him watch it in the guest bedroom when he is visiting should be fine.

    Unfortunately, temptation is too great and I don't always practice what I preach; I do download, though mostly TV series that I either can not watch at all in my region or that I can't be bothered to find. I don't like downloading someone's recording, I would much rather pay a little money for it and get it straight from the source and reward the creators. Unfortunately, they won't let me. And even when they do (we have some content on iTunes), the pirated versions are of much better quality.

    Take for instance "Bender's Big Score"; only R1 NTSC with no R2/4 PAL version even announced. This is a true geek show, how much money do you think they would have made overnight if they made a 4GB 720p version available for a $10 download? As a true fan I had to see this and was left with no choice but to download a pirated copy. I might buy it when it comes out, I might not, but in any case the studio and distributers have proven themselves complete retards not to offer their geek movie to the geeks in the way that geeks want.

    To conclude, I feel that just because we can we should not just copy everything left right and center, but the truth is that we do and the industry mostly has themselves to blame by not keeping up with what consumers want. And that makes them retarded because the internet is the easiest form of distribution ever invented and they completely fail to exploit it.

    1. Re:Nothing wrong with copyright by daBass · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I do not see why anyone should not be allowed to make a good investment and then live off it for the rest of their lives. Are we really going to force people to produce more?

      It would be like doing 10 years of good investing on the stock market, retiring on $10M dollars only to be told 5 years down the track to hand all your capital gains over because you are not allowed to enjoy the fruits of your work; you must keep working.

      And why would I pay for something new the artists created when I can have so much stuff that is only 5 years old for free?

      I know the corporate IP holders are crying all the way to the bank and would do fine with a little less profit from their back-catalog, but what about the independent artists, are we going to have two rules? It would be nice to have more of our cultural heritage lapse into the public domain, but I feel it is a much more complex issue than most people realize. What you are proposing is pretty much communism and after 5 years anyone can get it for free, but it would also mean anyone can make money on it!

      Imaging a 5 year rule and "Top Gun" has become public domain years ago, but most people can not get it easily, so someone WILL make money of selling copies on DVD. Not to mention TV stations broadcasting it for those not able to download or afford the few bucks for the DVD copy and selling commercials. Should the original creator really be shut out completely? And how is the TV station going to get their broadcast quality copy? Someone has the physical medium, most likely the corporate entity that created the film. Is there going to be a law that states the copy MUST be handed over or supplied at cost to the anyone who wants to broadcast it? Do you really think that in that case stations would buy much new material? I think not and it would be counterproductive to your "artists would have much more incentive to produce new works".

      What about spending a lot of money scanning and cleaning up the negatives and re-releasing it on Blu-Ray or HDDVD? How is that going to work, a new copyright term for the new format, so that you may freely copy the DVD of Top Gun, but not a copy (converted into whatever format) of the HDDVD?

      I do not think it is quite a clear cut as you seem to think it is!

  13. Re:Good Job by SpaceLifeForm · · Score: 4, Funny

    The mods around here, a bunch of hosers, eh?

    --
    You are being MICROattacked, from various angles, in a SOFT manner.
  14. Re:the evil person in me... by dadragon · · Score: 3, Funny

    No, no, no! We need to pummel him with Tim Bits!

    --
    God save our Queen, and Heaven bless The Maple Leaf Forever!
  15. Discovering Facebook by SlashJoel · · Score: 2, Funny

    This bill was delayed, in part due to the outcry of thousands of ordinary Canadians. Geist set up a Facebook group last week that has grown to over 14,000 members. Check out the video from Question Period in Parliament today. My favourite quote from a member of the opposition NDP: "They tabled the bill this morning now three hours later he's telling me he's got cold feet? What, did he just discover Facebook this morning?"

  16. Bill could still be introduced tomorrow by telso · · Score: 5, Informative

    As you can see on the Order Paper for Tuesday, the Minister of Industry can still introduce such a bill (with some last minute changes that water down only the most objectionable content, or no changes at all), just like he could yesterday. It'll stay on the "waiting to be introduced list" until it's introduced, or removed. With 4 more days until the holiday break, it should be interesting to watch; I know where I'll be tomorrow morning at 10 a.m....

    Oh, of course, as already mentioned, the title and summary of this story are wrong, since a bill that's never been introduced cannot be withdrawn. As usual with editors, YMMV.

  17. Doesn't look like the Minister responsible... by big_paul76 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Understands the first thing about the issue.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JF_dHu5fRAk

    This is a video of Industry Minister Jim Prentice getting ambushed by amateur reporters and bloggers on the way to his riding association's Xmas party, and he comes across not only as not caring about anyone who isn't a CEO, but not really understanding the issue.

    He may be our "series of tubes" guy in Canada.

    --
    The plural form of "anecdote" is "anecdotes", not "evidence".
  18. Re:likely US reaction by Robber+Baron · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Introduce this bill again, pronto, or we'll flatten Toronto!" Please do!

    - signed, the rest of Canada.
    --

    You're using her as bait, Master!

  19. They'll Try Again by Greyfox · · Score: 2, Interesting
    They always try again. If people notice the first time they try to sneak it through again and again until they succeed. They've got nothing but time and billions of dollars.

    I think the correct response is every time they try something like this, push to have IP laws relaxed and clarified. Push to add transparency to the government so that the crooked deals to the corrupt politicians will be in the open for all to see. Push to make it impossible for a entity that only exists as a legal fiction to buy the law with billions of dollars. Every time they push, push back harder.

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?