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Talking With the Women Working In Games
MTV's Multiplayer blog is working, all this week, on a series of interviews called Women Working in Games. They've already had great discussions with Ubisoft's Elspeth Tory on the Ubisoft/SomethingAwful thing, and X-Play's Morgan Webb about her work on cable television. They've also spoken with GameGirlAdvance's Jane Pinckard about the differences between men and women and the games they play. "I also think that women have traditionally been at the forefront of this, because they're burdened with more than their fair share of house work and childcare, usually. That's just statistical. And so they're going to have less leisure time for games. Now men are sort of catching up. But I think women have always been less free to play games the way that men have. So maybe that's why women play casual games or they play more casually. And they just don't want the same kind of game that requires 20, 40 hours of play. I think that's totally right." Tomorrow they're speaking with Brenda Brathwaite, a designer and author of the book Sex in Games.
Just kidding... But seriously, anyone have any pictures?
I think it is easy to explain why women aren't as "hardcore" when it comes to gaming as men are. Billy Crystal explained it all in two sentences.
"Women need a reason to have sex. Men just need a place."
Let me tell you, there are plenty of women in the industry. Secretaries, office managers, janitors, assistants, etc. There is no shortage of women in the workplace, evening in the gaming industry.
This was my favorite question and answer: Multiplayer: When disparaging stuff comes out on the Internet, what advice do you have for women dealing with that type of scrutiny?
Tory: Don't read the forums! [Laughs] Don't read the forums. That's what I was told by some people and I stopped doing that, so that's good. That's helping. And try and focus on the positive aspect of what you do and the end result. I think it's tough to know what to do. Do you react against it? Do you sort of say things verbally? Again, I think it's more about visibility. So if people are having issues, well then we're just going to go out there and make more games that are kick-ass and more games where there is a woman running it and more games where we're doing a great job. I think it's just going to have to eventually erode. It'll just eventually come to an end, and it'll be completely normal to have high-profile women on big projects. Guess we won't be seeing posts from Elspeth and Jade here... But I hope they keep making games, we need some diversity in the industry in all aspects of development and productions. I'm playing Assassin's Creed myself right now and though it has many flaws, I'm still enjoying it.
Reviewing just the first hour of video games.
Woo! Chicks in games! Show us your b3wbs!
Man, I read "Talking With the Women Working In Games" to mean that they had simulated speaking with women, using a game engine, and that the simulation was successful.
:-P
I was thinking, "Wow, using video games to make geeks better at chatting up the honeys", now that's progress -- like behavior therapy for autistic kids or something.
Turns out, it's "Talking with 'the Women Working In Games' ", and that's not nearly as cool as I first thought.
Cheers
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
I am perpetually bored by the hype that everyone puts behind women and gaming. Humans are humans and females can be just as likely involved in a videogame as males can. This has always struck me as one of those "equal but still special" things that so-called minorities like to flaunt. Now don't take that as misogynic, because it's just the opposite. Women shouldn't promote being pointed out, as they are merely people doing a job that people are expected to do (as opposed to monkeys or something).
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
In a messed up way, that's probably the most concise and insightful explanation.
;)
See, back when games were abstract, like Pong and Pac-Man, we already know that they drew about 50-50 crowds. Just as many women were into those games as men were.
Then gradually the industry became a boys' club. Male nerds began using the extra polygons and pixels to catter to other male nerds' needs, and often it was just the publisher's heavy handed intervention that stopped it from becoming all out porn. (Read Bartle's surrealistic "I was young, I needed the money", if you don't believe me. The surrealistic story of his trying to make a cybersex MUD, in spite of the management's keeping telling him not to, and that they'll never find a publisher for that.)
Women in games became helpless princesses to be rescued, rewards for the brave knight, erotic objects, and other such roles.
As an illustration of how far downhill that went, when Tomb Raider decided to have a woman as the main character (IIRC because a guy there thought it would be more fun to stare at a woman's arse in third person, than at a guy's arse), it was something almost revolutionary. It had become that much taken for granted that the player or the hero must be a guy, and the women are just the rewards he gets. And even that franchise eventually became an excuse to show Lara's... assets.
A lot more took the same route and assumed that any female char _must_ be played by a guy, and/or for the benefit of other guys. So, you know, a female knight can't possibly fear a sword to the gut or a severed femoral artery. (The effect of which on your blood content is not unlike cutting the bottom off a cup.) Of _course_ they'll go into battle wearing just a chainmail bikini
A lot of games which grudgingly offered women as playable characters, gimped their stats in various ways. Just because, you know, in a game where you shoot fireballs, ride dragons, and generally rape the laws of physics, chemistry and biology with a vengeance, it would be _so_ unrealistic if a woman (even a rare, exceptional, non-typical one) could possibly have the same strength or constitution as a guy.
And, gee, who would have guessed? Eventually that ratio between male and female players wasn't anywhere near 50-50 any more.
Maybe that quote hits the nail on the head. Maybe women do need a reason to play an inflatable sex doll.
Actually, would the males play such a character if it were male? I know quite a bunch of us had an aversion to playing Voldo in Soul Calibur. (For those who don't know the chap, he was dressed in a BDSM outfit, and with arse-less leather pants.) And that's still one notch above the portrayal of women in some games.
Mind you, it's getting better, but just saying... maybe that quote does condense a lot of wisdom in a very concise form.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
Please don't use a term without defining it first:
Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woman
*** Where are we going? And what's with this handbasket?
Are the developers male? If so, they maybe able to just get on with males easier. As females get on with females.
The other thing is. There is a far more vast male majority of gamers than females and it may have been in the developer's opinion to listen to the males because they are the ones that actually make them money.
Just makes sense to me. I don't see any sexism.
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
We'll see more women in game leadership positions. Games today are about artwork, social dynamics, and world design. The underlying technology isn't the limiting factor any more.
Ten years ago, consumer-grade graphics hardware was weak, frame rates were slow, people were struggling to get physics engines to work at all, network gaming was flakey, and attempts to build big worlds were choking on scaling problems. Now, that stuff just works.
Women spent so much time doing housework? Have you done housework before Jane? It takes maybe 2 hours a day if you have a big house. Add kids and you are up to make 6 hours a day if you keep popping them out non-stop. How is this leaving you with less time to play games than men who have always, and are still, stuck working a job? Guys are stuck with at least 8 hours a day of work, usually more than that. The amount of time available to play games is not why women play less games. Maybe it has something to do with what women enjoy doing, vs what most games provide?
What a ridiculous feedback loop. Reading that multiplayerblog interview was like watching two chickens puff themselves up before getting into a territorial squabble, or perhaps two drunks working themselves up to jump some third person who made a joke at their expense..
I don't know about you, but my mother had plenty of free time and a clean house. She did that by making sure her kids knew to pick up after themselves! She got me into computer gaming, actually- I'd sit and take notes for her as she played Legacy of the Ancients on the C64. We spent way more than any 40 hours on that damned game.
Women don't have time or inclination to sit and play games for hours, huh, but they'll watch years worth of senseless daytime TV and can tell you who slept with who and what character is supposed to be dead... sometimes I'm rather ashamed of the group with whom I share chromosomes..
Uh, "if it looks roughly mouse-shaped according to my infra-red sensitive pit, eat it"? --Chris Burke 09-08-10
Has anyone else noticed how "that's just statistical" has become shorthand for "I know this sounds dodgy, but take it on faith!"
And they will make us hang on their works with breathless anticipation, drawing us along for years upon years...We'll see more women in game leadership positions. Games today are about artwork, social dynamics, and world design. The underlying technology isn't the limiting factor any more.
Then up and quit, bugger off to Naughty Dog, and leave us broken, shattered husks of our former selves...
Curse you, Amy Henning.
I'm sure the women that work in games are jugling their carrer and home life and it's so wonderful and empowering, but are the women who _play_ the games like that? I'm sure it's something like a 12-25 demographic that has as much time to waste as everyone else..
--
Stay tuned for some shock and awe coming right up after this messages!
the reason gamers are skewed toward male is because women are too busy doing housework? wtf. i'm pretty sure when i started playing games as a little kid my sister had exactly as much free time as i did. when i was in college playing videogames, my girlfriend wasn't off ironing my shirts in some dungeon. there are many valid reasons that women may have played less videogames than men, but men being magically less busy than women is not one of them.
the reason gamers are skewed toward male is because women are too busy doing housework?
No, the real reason why lies in the content of the games. Let's take a few example games, say, Call of Duty 4, Kane & Lynch, and GTA San Andreas. These games feature cars, helicopters, fire weapons of all sorts, and killing tens of people every couple of minutes. Make no mistake about it, these features on their own aren't what turns women away from such games, no, the real problem is not what is in these games, but what's not in them. Namely, ponies.
When is the last time you've seen a pony in a game? Where are the scenes of combat against pony-riding RPG-totting Iraqi insurgents? Where are the cops who protect themselves from your bullets behind ponies? Where can you jack a mother fucker for his pony and run away with it with the mounties on, literally speaking, your tail? Not in any of the games mentioned, and that's why so many members of the female population prefer to watch cheesy movies that reminds them of the pony their father never offered them for their sixth birthday than to play the games we like to play.
You just got troll'd!
Games is male territory, Oprah is female territory. Let's not flatten everything, shall we?
There is one particular flaw in your reasoning.
I wont dispute the idea that someone working outside the home to earn money may be doing a great deal more total work than someone staying home and raising the kids / doing standard housework. It is a very reasonable point, and one worth discussing.
But your supporting arguments do not quite account for one thing.
Someone who chooses to make a career out of housekeeping / raising children essentially finds themselves in a job where there are never truly days off or weekends.
While it may work out that doing the bulk of the domestic work is the appropriate 'fair share', it is not unreasonable for the person doing such work to want to be able to have days where they can escape those responsibilities.
I would say that if someone is not given adequate chances to get the hell away from their work responsibilities, be it bread earning work or domestic work, they are entitled to complain.
END COMMUNICATION
The implications being that women are naturally better and more interested in art and social dynamics, while men are the people to deal with the real engineering?
You do realize that's what you just said, don't you? That men busted through all those tough engineering problems, and now the women can come in and improve the art and interpersonal experience.
Doesn't that sort of validate all the griping about women being stereotyped in engineering?
I'm going to assume that you're a cool person who doesn't necessarily believe all that, but it helps one see the sort of conceptual baggage we're carrying around.