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TV Industry Using Piracy As A Measure Of Success

mrspin writes "Last100 has an interesting post from Guinevere Orvis, a web producer who works in the broadcast industry, who describes the way in which 'unofficial' but sanctioned BitTorrent leaks are being used as a measurement of a TV show's likely success. Orvis writes: 'Broadcasters aren't posting their shows directly on PirateBay yet, but they are talking informally and giving copies of shows to a friend of a friend who is unaffiliated with the company to make a torrent ... it's partially an experiment, but the hope is that distribution of content this way will lead to new viewers that wouldn't have been reached through traditional marketing means.'"

22 of 173 comments (clear)

  1. Makes Sense... by Kozar_The_Malignant · · Score: 5, Interesting

    How would you feel if you made a product so bad that no one would steal it?

    --
    Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
    1. Re:Makes Sense... by big_paul76 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You'd then be in the same boat as commercial radio - they've made a product so crappy that not only will people not use it for free, they'll pay 10-15 bucks a month to use something else.

      --
      The plural form of "anecdote" is "anecdotes", not "evidence".
    2. Re:Makes Sense... by Penguinisto · · Score: 5, Insightful
      A bit OT, but maybe not...

      Commercial Radio and Commercial TV suffer from the same things: crap scheduling, a lot of crap content with few gems buried among said crap (e.g. the occasional song that plays during "The Morning Zo0!!!11!111" on the radio, or conversely, television jammed to the gills with lame sitcoms and reality shows with the occasional "oh shit that was cool!" show wedged in there)... things like that.

      They both suffer from being packed to the rafters with commercials.

      Now, not all of either industry is like that - for instance, 94.7 FM (in Portland, OR) doesn't do morning "shows" at all - they play music all morning, with a couple of blurbs for "The Jon Stewart Minute" and a short 5-minute episode detailing how an alternative-type band or singer's career came and went. The closest they come to any kind of thing is what they call "The 8 at 8", where they play 8 songs in a row with a common theme... sometimes lame, but sometimes pretty inventive. They keep the commercials to a minimum (less than most, anyway), and even in the evenings on weekdays, the most you see that isn't straight-up music playing is a two-hour-long program of techno/alternative/industrial mixes by local DJ's (most of which aren't half bad).

      Rattled on too long there... sorry. Now by contrast, broadcast commercial TV networks suck as a rule, but occasionally something decent shows on it. Their problem isn't the media format or technical means of delivery - it's the way the medium is being strangled for every last drop of revenue it has, and to the detriment of the folks watching it. I'm not even really talking show content here, which also suffers greatly from this. As a producer, if you've only got 36 minutes to tell a story (or at least some of it) in a full 60-minute slot --not counting time spent on intro and credits-- you tend to drop subtleties and intricacies in a hurry - as a result the show quickly becomes crap unless carefully constructed).

      Little wonder that people are drifting away from television in general, truth be told...

      /P

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    3. Re:Makes Sense... by packeteer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      kexp.org

      No commercials, good music, streaming over the internet if you don't live in Seattle.

      --
      unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; unmount; sleep
    4. Re:Makes Sense... by finiteSet · · Score: 4, Insightful

      kexp.org
      Further, they offer a 1.4Mbps uncompressed stream (they claim to be the first station to do that) and a 14 day archive. There are some really good programs, but even the variety mix is well above average - if you haven't checked it out before I highly recommend it.
      --
      If we start buying CDs then the terrorists have already won.
  2. Cost of Piracy by kaoshin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Since piracy statistics are being used to help with marketing and increase profits, is this a measureable reduction to the actual cost piracy has on the industry?

  3. Free Distribution by TheLazySci-FiAuthor · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What they call 'Piracy' will continue to rise - there is no point at which it will retract. I wonder if they have added into their estimations the accelerating growth of this piracy they are measuring.

    Which brings me to something that I've been wondering about for a while; how would the entertainment industry survive if there was theoretically no way to protect their intellectual property from open and free distribution. How would they handle a world where there was no legal route to enforcing a royalty-style or licensed payment system?

    Because it is my thoughts that as our world further connects itself together that this is exactly what will happen in the (no so distant?) future.

    At least in the technological sense, the legal sense is difficult to gauge, though I hope the legal system will suffer a major overhaul in the coming decades.

    1. Re:Free Distribution by Enoxice · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A total overhaul of the legal system? Do you have any idea how much work that is? Rethinking our morals as a species, and now lots of "new" technology comes under consideration, opposing views and interests, etc...

      As much as I'd like to see that, I feel like society as a whole is far too lazy to do more than talk about such things until there is some major shift in society that makes them realize that laws and government aren't perpetual and tend to lose power as society revokes it.

      Sadly, I feel like over the years people have come to trust the government and almost think of it as a given in the natural order of things.

      --
      Anyone else think the comments just weren't rendering right before they turned off ABP and saw ads?
    2. Re:Free Distribution by MightyYar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How would they handle a world where there was no legal route to enforcing a royalty-style or licensed payment system? People will pay for convenience. I know I've hit the "Buy" button on iTunes more than once because it wasn't worth the effort to look for something on P2P or usenet. I occasionally hit Blockbuster rather than wait for a movie to download. Movies would likely still have some exclusivity because of their theater run. Money can still be made from music through commercial licensing and live shows.

      People will pay for an "exclusive". If they offered a pay download of the "Sopranos" finale, you can bet that people would rush to buy it - not willing to wait for it to be uploaded to the P2P sites.

      Ads can be intertwined more with the content. People probably wouldn't bother editing out all the scene where Ross in a future "Friends" style show is constantly holding a Pepsi or has dialog talking about how sweet Chandler's new Chevy is. It might be difficult to work in laundry detergent ads into soap operas, so I guess they'll have to wait until the writers call off the strike.

      Finally, I don't think that YouTube and its ilk would suck so much if it wasn't essentially competing with mainstream TV and movies. I mean, there would still be mountains of crap, but there might also be more fun stuff on there. Even as it is, I can kill a lot of time just browsing around.

      One thing is for certain - society would go on... this stuff just isn't that important. :)
      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  4. They won't have to resort to piracy . . . by cashman73 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Many television networks are putting many of their popular shows online now, for free. All the major networks: CBS, ABC, NBC, Fox -- are all putting full episode content on their websites now. Even Sci-Fi is starting to do it, although they don't have too many shows with full episodes up (but a. they're owned by NBC, who is getting into the online distribution format quite rapidly and b. they're probably realizing that a good number of their shows are popular with geeks that know how to share their shows via bittorrent quite readily). I wouldn't be surprised if a few more networks, like Comedy Central, get into the action. I think what's happening is that the corporations that run the networks have seen how a site like Youtube has practically sprouted up overnight, and they're seeing this as a way to reach out to more people (and thereby increase their advertising streams and revenue).

  5. I don't get it by snl2587 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If possession of pre-release material is a felony, then why would a TV exec condone this? So downloading is ok if it helps make the companies money? Am I the only one that sees something fundamentally wrong with this?

    1. Re:I don't get it by boyfaceddog · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, downloading is okay if it makes the company money. Remember that anyone with a television can 'download' the 'streaming content' from the 'providers' for free any time they want to. They can even 'timeshift' the broadcast to watch it later. The problem was never that the broadcasters were afraid of this technology it was that they were afraid of what this technology would do to traditional broadcasting. Now that the ship is sinking the raft doesn't look so bad.

      --
      Here will be an old abusing of God's patience and the king's English.
  6. Leaked pilots by hansamurai · · Score: 3, Informative

    Many new shows this year were leaked weeks and months before their pilot aired, undoubtedly creating early talk about the shows that they wouldn't get otherwise.

    I watched a few and they helped me make decisions, half of the Geico Cavemen pilot was enough forever, and the Sarah Connor Chronicles pilot renewed my interest in the Terminator series and I'm totally pumped for the show this January or February.

  7. Win-Win, or alternately catch-22 by teklob · · Score: 5, Funny

    And then if the show doesn't take off, they can always recoup their losses by suing the pirate...

  8. I, for one... by radarsat1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I, for one, can attest that I've definitely discovered a few new shows by simply checking the list of most-seeded torrents on some web site.

    I've also discovered that it's not always an indication of quality. :)

  9. sicko by hajus · · Score: 3, Informative

    I remember many people thought Michael Moore's "Sicko" movie was released on BitTorrent on purpose.

  10. Piracy as an index of popularity by sakusha · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I know that the IP owners watch piracy to see what's hot. I noticed this a long time ago on usenet in a few .mp3 subgenres. Some extremely rare audio tracks that were not in print and only available in very old, extremely limited editions on vinyl were restored by certain (ahem) users. They were immensely popular, were constantly reposted, and basically became the only copies available in any media. The studios apparently noticed the popularity of these tracks, and the vinyl LPs were suddenly released on CD. I've seen this happen numerous times. They watch to see what the collectors consider worth investing their time in audio restoration, what the users consider worth collecting, and then they see money and rerelease the product from their vaults.

  11. TV piracy is the oldest kind by Optikschmoptik · · Score: 5, Funny

    Because you can pick it up, unencrypted, right out of the radio spectrum just about anywhere. People have been stealing television content for years, with equipment kits you can buy at most garage sales.

    Some content providers have started to insert commercials both as a deterrent against stealing content, and as a way to recoup the massive losses. Advanced piracy tools already have hacked this system, with things like a 'mute' button.

    I oppose the mute button on moral grounds. Also, I am miserable.

  12. Re:Not surprised... by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Actually if it wasn't for torrents, I would have never been hooked on House. I have a fairly well set aversion against doc shows. I somehow can't stomach the usual tear squeezing and heart-rending stories of someone dying (or not dying so someone else has to or what not), and generally I don't feel for the patient.

    Now finally there's a doc who shares my feelings. Quite refreshing!

    I saw the show at a friend's who got a few episodes from torrents. So now I'm sitting every week for an hour in front of the TV watching. That's one viewer more they wouldn't have without that torrent existing, or at the very least it would have taken me a lot longer to find out that I do actually want to see this medical show.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  13. would we be better off without TV ads? by big_paul76 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Good point, that's true, still not 60 min, but still better than network TV. And the lack of interruptions is very, very nice.

    Personally, I get most of my TV shows (BSG/Dexter/The wire/Sopranos/the office/30 rock) from bittorent. And speaking as somebody who just recently gave up my cable TV, I can't help but wonder if we'd be better off if the whole TV advertising industry went the way of the dodo.

    Nothing's really been proven, but there's been some psych studies that have suggest that the deliberate manipulation of your emotions/unconscious motivations by the advertising industry may not be good for society as a whole. I mean, can it be good for a democracy to have regular doses of messages telling you to not trust your own judgment, and that you'll be happier if you just buy [product X]?

    And that's without even discussing the impact that the huge high cost of TV advertising has on elections. I can't remember where I heard this (or verify it's veracity) but the statistic I heard was that a US senator needs to raise $10,000 a day every day he's in washington to pay for his re-election. So there's definitely a relationship between the high cost of TV advertising and how beholden politicians are to monied interests.

    --
    The plural form of "anecdote" is "anecdotes", not "evidence".
  14. Re:would we be better off without TV ads? by mollymoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Personally, I get most of my TV shows (BSG/Dexter/The wire/Sopranos/the office/30 rock) from bittorent. And speaking as somebody who just recently gave up my cable TV, I can't help but wonder if we'd be better off if the whole TV advertising industry went the way of the dodo.

    Your opinion is based on a perverted perspective - you're getting the stuff for free by doing something illegal and immoral. Not everybody can take the route of downloading TV from bittorrent because then nobody would be paying for the shows to be made so no shows would be made. If you want a real taste of an advertising-free world then buy the DVDs. OK, DVD is only a not-very-heavily-advertised-on medium, but it's the closest we've got.

    --
    Chernobyl 'not a wildlife haven' - BBC News
  15. Re:Where are these new tv shows? by Mr2001 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Boy, I'll say! But you know what was really shitty - that time when I went to Sea World with Bruce Springsteen and Mike Wallace... [cutaway gag]

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